Sugar Bowl

[FirefightnRick]

Great game by the Tigas' last night. Did anyone notice the comment by either Bradshaw or Long concerning "TODAY'S" style of offense? They were talking about Jimbo Fisher and the LSU offense and I believe(correct me if I'm wrong) on LSU wanting to run the clock down and simply running it up the middle "Powerhouse" style? I'm paraphrasing here, but he said you have to change with the times and Fisher and Myles did that with their wide open offense. Said the old school power running games is in the past and that from changing to the more wide open offenses it allowed the current LSU staff to recruit better athletes. Of course we know LSU can recruit whoever they want regardless. After stealing Perriloeux(Sp) from Texas last year proves me that is true. Still, look what Meyer did at Utah and what Boise has done as well, and Kentucky, Texas Tech and Marshall and Tulane before that with these open offenses.

For us we are a long ways off in seeing any dividends of the change. But I just find this interesting because I know that many, if not most here at GMG.com had it right years ago, that you have to be able to attack ALL of the field and that these more open offenses gives you a better fighting chance to succeed.

Rick

[Green Mean]

You definitely have to change with the times. All sports have pretty much changed compared to 10, 20, and 30 years ago. That powerhouse running game wont get you that far for long unless maybe perhaps you have an offensive line like the mid 90's cowboys....then I can say that you may have a shot. Sports these days has all come down to schemes, preperation and all that other stuff. Sure you have to have some talent as well but thats already understood. If you have all those things and you have the heart and will like BSU had the other night against OU or what VY had last year against USC you have a shot to go places.

[buff64]

Great game by the Tigas' last night. Did anyone notice the comment by either Bradshaw or Long concerning "TODAY'S" style of offense? They were talking about Jimbo Fisher and the LSU offense and I believe(correct me if I'm wrong) on LSU wanting to run the clock down and simply running it up the middle "Powerhouse" style? I'm paraphrasing here, but he said you have to change with the times and Fisher and Myles did that with their wide open offense. Said the old school power running games is in the past and that from changing to the more wide open offenses it allowed the current LSU staff to recruit better athletes. Of course we know LSU can recruit whoever they want regardless. After stealing Perriloeux(Sp) from Texas last year proves me that is true. Still, look what Meyer did at Utah and what Boise has done as well, and Kentucky, Texas Tech and Marshall and Tulane before that with these open offenses.

For us we are a long ways off in seeing any dividends of the change. But I just find this interesting because I know that many, if not most here at GMG.com had it right years ago, that you have to be able to attack ALL of the field and that these more open offenses gives you a better fighting chance to succeed.

Rick

Good points.

P.S.

Do you think if Notre Dame was in the Sun Belt they would have been in a bowl game ?

[Green Dozer]

Good points! I think to get the best athletes, you have to run the wide open offense. Kids don't want to play in a boring scheme....they don't do it when they are playing NCAA Football/Madden on their video games, so I don't think it excites them to be on a team that plays a Buick ball style when they have a choice.

[PerryG2480]

I heard this morning that 87 teams have won bowl games since Notre Dame last won one...including North Texas and Troy.

[Green Mean]

I heard this morning that 87 teams have won bowl games since Notre Dame last won one...including North Texas and Troy.

Thats an interesting fact but at the same time its not a good measuring stick cuz there are lot of 3rd rate bowls and more and more bowls seem to be added. Notre Dame hasnt won in 9 straight bowls but they are still the Fighting Irish and if they are good and dominant then its good for college football....just how the Cowboys are to the NFL, Yanks are to the MLB, Lakers to the NBA etc. Troy and NT's wins were nice for the sunbelt but lets face it that those are 3rd rate bowls that really dont mean a dang. I think the the bowl in New Mexico payout was like 350,000. Thats pretty bad so it just goes to show you that winning a bowl game these days really doesnt mean anything like it used to unless you play in the older bowls. Afcourse all of this is my opinion.

[Eagle1855]

if they are good and dominant then its good for college football....just how the Cowboys are to the NFL, Yanks are to the MLB, Lakers to the NBA etc.

I understand this is your opinion, but I don't see how on earth Notre Dame, Cowboys, Yanks, or Lakers mean anything to the rest of their respective leagues outside the fans of those programs. In fact, I will go as far as to say that the way the Yankees operate is actually BAD for MLB. I could care less if any of those teams ever won another game, but that's just my opinion I see your point however. All feels 'normal' when UND, Nebraska and Penn State are at least competitive, as they are some of the traditional powers.

I do agree with you on your point on significance of bowl games. Notre Dame (whether deservedly is debatable) plays in much higher profile bowls than many of the 87 teams that have played and won a bowl since their last.

Regarding Notre Dame, they played about as well as they have all year when facing top opponents. I mean, is anyone really surprised they lost by 2+ TDs?

Topic at hand, I think the game evolves and changes in football as it does in all sports. Good coaches see this and adapt, the ones that don't get passed by. Look no further than Dickey and Parcells for evidence, locally.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Eagle1855

[Green Mean]

Eagle1855:

Yeah I totally agree with you in that sense that what the Yanks do is absolutely terrible for the MLB...but thats just the structure of that league. I'm not saying I agree with everything I said but people in this country want to see high profile teams and/or high profile cities. When the Mavs went to the finals last year it was clear and obvious that the NBA wanted the heat to win cuz of shaq and the fact that they are in Miami. If you saw all those broadcasts on TV you would totally understand. Look at when the NBA changed their first round playoff format from 5-7 games. They changed it during mid season cuz they knew the lakers would be like a 4th or 5th seed and there was that possibility that their opponent could catch lightning in a bottle and upset them. But afcourse in a 7 game series with oneal, bryant, and the lakers...that probably aint gonna happen. Why did the NBA do that? Cuz its the Lakers and they are in LA and its all those glamorous things that are involved. They dont want hardcore fans like us cuz they know that regardless the hardcore die hard fans will always be there....they want to appeal to the frows, foreigners not very involved in the sport, the non sports fan, casual fan and etc. They knew they would make more money if they went to the finals rather than the twolves, kings, mavs etc. Its just the way the world is. That is why the system in College FB is messed up...its all about the big time schools and money and ND is one of them. I dont agree with all this but this is what I have seen that makes me believe all this. What do you guys think?

[Eagle1855]

I see your point. you are referring to ratings. I misunderstood that. I agree to some extent... Id rather watch Notre Dame and LSU in a BCS bowl than CMU and MTSU in the Spare Tire Bowl if I am a casual fan.

I think the stakes of a game also have a lot to do with a team's draw. For instance, I was far more interested in seeing BSU and OU than I am any other BCS game. USC/Michigan? Snooze. Same for LSU/ND because I felt pretty confident it was going to be a blow out (although not as much as it was) like every other top 10 team they played.

Anyways, may want to start a new thread on with this subject, as this is becoming a hi-jacked thread...

[FirefightnRick]

Thats an interesting fact but at the same time its not a good measuring stick cuz there are lot of 3rd rate bowls and more and more bowls seem to be added. Notre Dame hasnt won in 9 straight bowls but they are still the Fighting Irish and if they are good and dominant then its good for college football....just how the Cowboys are to the NFL, Yanks are to the MLB, Lakers to the NBA etc. Troy and NT's wins were nice for the sunbelt but lets face it that those are 3rd rate bowls that really dont mean a dang. I think the the bowl in New Mexico payout was like 350,000. Thats pretty bad so it just goes to show you that winning a bowl game these days really doesnt mean anything like it used to unless you play in the older bowls. Afcourse all of this is my opinion.

It's a very good measuring stick, a measuring stick to laugh at Notre Dame, because they have EVERYTHING money can buy, and then some and they STILL can't win a bowl game. And I'm laughing all the way with each and every loss.

Rick

[mwynn05]

It's a very good measuring stick, a measuring stick to laugh at Notre Dame, because they have EVERYTHING money can buy, and then some and they STILL can't win a bowl game. And I'm laughing all the way with each and every loss.

Rick

Notre Dame shouldn't have been in the BCS to begin with

[Green Mean]

It's a very good measuring stick, a measuring stick to laugh at Notre Dame, because they have EVERYTHING money can buy, and then some and they STILL can't win a bowl game. And I'm laughing all the way with each and every loss.

Rick

I'd rather be in ND's position and lose 9 straight bowls with their own TV contract and national/international exposure rather than be in NT's position and barely draw 15k-20k per game and most people have never even heard of the school.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Green Mean

[PerryG2480]

The stat is was it is...a meaningless stat.

I agree with Rick though, Notre Dame has one of the best program's money can buy.

[Green Guy Bass]

I understand its fun to kick Notre Dame in the balls for not winning a bowl since 1994, but I am pretty sure the Irish would win the NOB every year. I would rather be an Irish fan that lives through the misery of coming up short against often better talent in Marquee games rather than win a bowl once every few years, while being mediocre in the other years. You might bitch about ND having more $$ than other programs, but at least they generate their own revenues (TV deal, merchandising, a century of great success).

While we are talking about $$ it also bugs me that people gripe about the Yankees. As a Ranger fan I hate the Yankees, but they do the same thing as ND. They have the YES network, they are the top selling franchise with merchandise, and they have skins on the wall. Sure their payroll is more that other franchises, or even divisions some seasons. But they have earned the $ they make, but more important they play by the rules....Name me something that the Yankees do illegally to get top players....Not until MLB does soemthing to even things out they will always have a taller stack than everyone else at the table. But in a way the Yankees are a great example of this capitalistic society we live in. The Yankees and Irish are haves compared to the have nots. People like to gripe, but they have earned their status....just like a student who has paid his dues, worked hard (and smart), and now they get to reap the benefits.

Just my view of the issue.

Bass

[Green Mean]

I understand its fun to kick Notre Dame in the balls for not winning a bowl since 1994, but I am pretty sure the Irish would win the NOB every year. I would rather be an Irish fan that lives through the misery of coming up short against often better talent in Marquee games rather than win a bowl once every few years, while being mediocre in the other years. You might bitch about ND having more $$ than other programs, but at least they generate their own revenues (TV deal, merchandising, a century of great success).

While we are talking about $$ it also bugs me that people gripe about the Yankees. As a Ranger fan I hate the Yankees, but they do the same thing as ND. They have the YES network, they are the top selling franchise with merchandise, and they have skins on the wall. Sure their payroll is more that other franchises, or even divisions some seasons. But they have earned the $ they make, but more important they play by the rules....Name me something that the Yankees do illegally to get top players....Not until MLB does soemthing to even things out they will always have a taller stack than everyone else at the table. But in a way the Yankees are a great example of this capitalistic society we live in. The Yankees and Irish are haves compared to the have nots. People like to gripe, but they have earned their status....just like a student who has paid his dues, worked hard (and smart), and now they get to reap the benefits.

Just my view of the issue.

Bass

Right there wit ya brotha. I feel like we are the only NT fans that look at reality when it comes to Mean Green sports. IMO, ND has earned that right to do whatever they want as long as its within the boundaries. If people were watching the FOX telecast they were saying that the avg gpa for the fb team is like 3.1!!!! That is outstanding!!! So many of their players are academic all american and etc. On top of that they probably have one of the best if not the best football programs and even athletic programs in the nation. They generate their own revenue like Bass stated above....and to be honest with you they freakin deserve it. They arent in a conference....yet they have their own TV deal Dont gripe about that if you're a NT fan. ND is an institution that we want to be just like and envy. Thats incredible what they are able to do and if we ever even become half of that then i think most NT fans would take that. Instead of us laughing at ND losing 9 straight bowls lets instead think how we can be like ND and what we need to do to get to that stature. What say all you guys?

[Mean Green 93-98]

But they have earned the $ they make, but more important they play by the rules....Name me something that the Yankees do illegally to get top players....Not until MLB does soemthing to even things out they will always have a taller stack than everyone else at the table. But in a way the Yankees are a great example of this capitalistic society we live in. The Yankees and Irish are haves compared to the have nots. People like to gripe, but they have earned their status....just like a student who has paid his dues, worked hard (and smart), and now they get to reap the benefits.

Just my view of the issue.

Bass

I don't know how much you can call ND and the Yankees "pull 'emselves up by the bootstraps" success stories. The Yankees, in particular, have a built-in fan base being a storied franchise in a major metropolitan area. What I would like to see is UNT use the great assets at its fingertips--while not a "storied franchise," we are the largest university in a large football-crazy metropolitan area with a large student body and alumni base. Who knows what could happen if the right buttons were pushed at the right time?

[FirefightnRick]

Right there wit ya brotha. I feel like we are the only NT fans that look at reality when it comes to Mean Green sports. IMO, ND has earned that right to do whatever they want as long as its within the boundaries. If people were watching the FOX telecast they were saying that the avg gpa for the fb team is like 3.1!!!! That is outstanding!!! So many of their players are academic all american and etc. On top of that they probably have one of the best if not the best football programs and even athletic programs in the nation. They generate their own revenue like Bass stated above....and to be honest with you they freakin deserve it. They arent in a conference....yet they have their own TV deal Dont gripe about that if you're a NT fan. ND is an institution that we want to be just like and envy. Thats incredible what they are able to do and if we ever even become half of that then i think most NT fans would take that. Instead of us laughing at ND losing 9 straight bowls lets instead think how we can be like ND and what we need to do to get to that stature. What say all you guys?

Reality? With a budget of over $100 Million annually Ohio State can't even score the TV contract bankroll that Notre Dame has had at it's disposal all these years. Just who would we have to murder to get such access?

And during the Sugar Bowl they didn't say the team had a g.p.a. average of 3.1 but that a select group of players on the team did. Their top scoring athlete had a g.p.a. of 3.5. Just to name a few, NT's Scott Hall and Nick Bazuldua both carried 4.0's while Chris Eidd is currently carrying a 4.0 while double majoring in accounting and physics.

And for the record I don't want North Texas to be known as the program that fires a coach because, even though he was the first coach EVER to win 10 games in his innaugural season enroute to beating 4 ranked opponents and ending 4th overall, couldn't win an NC after only 3 seasons.

No, I want NT to earn their way to the top like Boise State did.

Rick

Edited January 5, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[Green Mean]

L

Edited January 5, 2007 by Green Mean

[Green Mean]

Reality? With a budget of over $100 Million annually Ohio State can't even score the TV contract bankroll that Notre Dame has had at it's disposal all these years. Just who would we have to murder to get such access?

And during the Sugar Bowl they didn't say the team had a g.p.a. average of 3.1 but that a select group of players on the team did. Their top scoring athlete had a g.p.a. of 3.5. Just to name a few, NT's Scott Hall and Nick Bazuldua both carried 4.0's while Chris Eidd is currently carrying a 4.0 while double majoring in accounting and physics.

And for the record I don't want North Texas to be known as the program that fires a coach because, even though he was the first coach EVER to win 10 games in his innaugural season enroute to beating 4 ranked opponents and ending 4th overall, couldn't win an NC after only 3 seasons.

No, I want NT to earn their way to the top like Boise State did.

Rick

Rick,

I dont think that is correct about their gpa....i believe it was for the whole team but i may be wrong there. I'm not taking anything away Bazuldua, Eidd etc are doing academically either. All i'm saying is all NT fans can do is bitch about something they have no business bitching about. Lets first try to consistently get 20-25 thousand people to watch a football in which we are not playing SMU and try to draw 4-6 thousand people in an arena to watch a team that is 11-4. ITS FREAKING NOTRE DAME FOR PETES SAKE!!! Whether they fire a coach for a particular reason or not thats not my place to judge them but if you wanna talk about that dont you think the way DD was booted out of here was a little over done? The guy won 26 straight conference games, went to 4 straight bowl games, and atleast SOMEWHAT put NT on the map. Just for a couple of losing seasons you wanna fire a guy in the middle of a season while he's already gone thru several problems with his health? If you ask me then thats kinda sorry too (even tho I like the TD hiring). And as for their TV contract I see ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with it. If they can legally do it then who are we to judge that? I honestly think its more jealousy than anything else. Its like ranger fans and the rest of baseball fans hate alex rodriguez....but for what? Just cuz he makes 25 million a year? People will say its his attitude which yes i do agree but a lot of just has to do with the fact that he got a quarter billion contract that was being OFFERED TO HIM by that moron Tom Hicks. ND is great academic and athletic institution...and frankly tho i'm a die hard mean green fan , NT and ND probably shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence of comparison cuz they are both in different classes because of what they have been able to do with their sports program. Again...all this is my opinion. GMG.

[FirefightnRick]

http://www.fanblogs.com/florida_state/006407.php

Damn I wish we could be like these people, having NBC affiliates funneling players to us with bribes and all.

Hell yeah. If only we could also be like Alabama too. Get caught illegally recruiting players and getting on probation and yet still somehow justify the "WIN AT ANY COST" mentality by throwing $32 Million at the coach of our choice.

Absolutely, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama and of course the New York Yankees all teams who we should aspire to be like!

Rick

Edited January 5, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[Green Mean]

http://www.fanblogs.com/florida_state/006407.php

Damn I wish we could be like these people, having NBC affiliates funneling players to us with bribes and all.

Hell yeah. If only we could also be like Alabama too. Get caught illegally recruiting players and getting on probation and yet still somehow justify the "WIN AT ANY COST" mentality by throwing $32 Million at the coach of our choice.

Rick

Hey they all bend the rules....and if you dont think NT bends the rules then you're definitely kidding yourself. Atleast Alabama has $32 million dollars to throw at a coach to start winning. They can actually fill their stadiums, arenas, etc along with sell merchandise and get a hell of a lot of donations. I dont even think NT athletics can spell $32 million dollars. That is why these schools are able to win because they have that fierce, go get em mentality....win or you're gone. Heck that kinda smells like what happened with DD.....and yet we still cant be half or even a quarter of what Alabama is (even at 6-6). Hmmmmm....go figure.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Green Mean

[FirefightnRick]

Hey they all bend the rules....and if you dont think NT bends the rules then you're definitely kidding yourself. Atleast Alabama has $32 million dollars to throw at a coach to start winning. They can actually fill their stadiums, arenas, etc along with sell merchandise and get a hell of a lot of donations. I dont even think NT athletics can spell $32 million dollars. That is why these schools are able to win because they have that fierce, go get em mentality....win or you're gone. Heck that kinda smells like what happened with DD.....and yet we still cant be half or even a quarter of what Alabama is (even at 6-6). Hmmmmm....go figure.

Notre Dame now isn't the only one that has me laughing. The above coming from someone who first called into question gmg.com posters' relation to REALITY: Now twice comparing DD to Tyrone Willingham, and now Mike Shula. Hmmmmm....go figure?

Rick

[PerryG2480]

Wow, this discussion is going to go nowhere. Notre Dame has more money and resources than probably 98-99 percent of the programs out there. Yes, they deserve it based on their history, tradition, record, etc. HOWEVER, I am not willing to drop to my knees, worship their greatness, and ASPIRE to be like them someday.

There was a time in our history when North Texas was on the same level playing field as Louisville (played in the same conference) and Boise St. (played in the same conference and BEAT them frequently). Some of the decisions and tactics used...which we won't get into without starting a 10 page thread...by the administration during the years in between have led to the different levels those respective programs play at today.

In other words....coulda been us.

Besides, North Texas fans are a different breed. We are truly passionate fans. And although we may be few in number, we don't jump on a Notre Dame bandwagon because it's a "cool team" to follow like so many around the country do.

[Green Mean]

Notre Dame now isn't the only one that has me laughing. The above coming from someone who first called into question gmg.com posters' relation to REALITY: Now twice comparing DD to Tyrone Willingham, and now Mike Shula. Hmmmmm....go figure?

Rick

I was not comparing DD for the sake of comparing it....You said that whatever happened to Willingham and Shula was wrong and bad and etc but you fail to realize that what happened to Dickey was the same exact thing....SORRY. I guess the only difference is that people dont care about NT coaches and where as they care what ND and Alabama does. Rick, dont think i'm just bashing NT athletics cuz i'm anti mean green...just like you I want whats best for this program and hope that one day they get their athletics program into prominence...but I feel like too many people on here wanna criticize these "BIG SCHOOLS" without a lot of good reasons. Yes the system is messed up and i know that...yes the bcs schools may feel like they are the top of the world but its not just them...people make them feel like they are on top of the world. The draws are the big schools whether we like it or not and i believe that it will stay like that for some time....Perhaps BSU kind of changed that landscape a little bit on monday night but they and other schools like them need to do it again and a lil more often for it to be like we want it to be.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

--- I have never known exactly what to make of GPAs. (I teach college classes) A lot of the GPA has to do with which major and which college. I would be more concerned about the graduation rate and what majors they finished with... From what I have heard some places rarely give C's if unless you are an awful student (grade Inflation) . Others rarely give A's unless the student is very outstanding (too restrictive sometimes). Also a 3.50 in physics is not the same as a 3.50 in many other majors.

---Notre Dame should have no trouble recruiting so I suspect the GPA there would be higher than most places since they get to pick and chose a lot. Strangely Ohio State athletes (so I have read) have a very poor graduation rate. I suppose that is true, after all that fine person Clariette went there and they seem to have all sorts of problems with athletic tutors etc..

---Also interesting.. the NFL team with the most college grads is New England.... seems like they have won a lot of Super Bowls lately. They try to pick players that are smart and not trouble makers.... note : they signed Patrick Cobb didn't they? He was well educated and a very decent guy...!! The Landry version of the Cowboys did pretty much the same thing, maybe not so much in his final years but for a long time they did.

Edited January 5, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66