Andrew Smith Practice Field

[MeanGreenBuzz]

By all accounts Andrew Smith was a great young man. There are a lot of great young men and women affiliated with the UNT football program. So why would we honor Andrew by naming the field after him? Because he died while he was still a big part of the UNT program. Why did he die? Because he made a tragic mistake and drove a car while under the influence. That doesn't make him a bad person, but it does make it inappropriate to name the practice field after him. Naming the practice field after Smith is disrespectful to everyone who has been a victim of drunken driving and their families.

I disagree. I don't know if I can put in words exactly what my point is but I will try. Andrew was a great guy and yes he made a mistake. At the same time he was a major part of the team and a major part of building the image of this university. Hopefully his tragic mistake can serve to deter other students/athletes from making the same mistake. When your young sometimes you think you are above something like this happening to you, especially after accomplishing on the field all that Andrew did. You always think it will happen to someone else. I know that there are people on this board that have driven drunk and I would be willing to bet drunker than he was that night. I also would say there are people that have driven high and probably drunk and high. The only difference is it didn't cost them their lives. They were luckier than Andrew and it was not their time. Had he not died would we have named a practice field after him? Only time would have been able to tell. Who knows what he could have still contributed to this University both on an off the field had he not been taken when he was but the fact is he was. It is a great honor to his life and his person and there is no disrespect to anyone that has been a victim. We should remember a young man that was taken from us and let it serve as a reminder to others.

[LoveMG]

By all accounts Andrew Smith was a great young man. There are a lot of great young men and women affiliated with the UNT football program. So why would we honor Andrew by naming the field after him? Because he died while he was still a big part of the UNT program. Why did he die? Because he made a tragic mistake and drove a car while under the influence. That doesn't make him a bad person, but it does make it inappropriate to name the practice field after him. Naming the practice field after Smith is disrespectful to everyone who has been a victim of drunken driving and their families.

agree

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

--Why not Joe Greene field.... He was an all-American (have we ever had another). He was a fine person. He went to the NFL where he was an all-pro many times.... he played on Super Bowl teams..... He is our only NFL hall of Fame member and if it were not for him would we be called the "Mean Green today?...... It seems like he deserves it and has been a great role model and even one of the most popular TV commercials of all time features him...

---I would rather honor him.... or even Abner Haynes for all that he did include break the color-line in Texas division I colleges... almost 10 years before the SWC accepted integration..... He went through a lot that most of us don't understand or know about. You younger members have no clue what he went through.... plus he also was a stand-out player in professional footbal. Both of these men seem like far better candidates....

To answer one post..... the DD suggestion seems crazy to me as well. Like I said when I first posted... I knew this would not be popular with everyone (especially the younger members) but I am never afraid to speak how I feel.... I think the other two (and older) names I mentioned are far more deserving.

[MeanGreenBuzz]

--Why not Joe Greene field.... He was an all-American (have we ever had another). He was a fine person. He went to the NFL where he was an all-pro many times.... he played on Super Bowl teams..... He is our only NFL hall of Fame member and if it were not for him would we be called the "Mean Green today?...... It seems like he deserves it and has been a great role model and even one of the most popular TV commercials of all time features him...

---I would rather honor him.... or even Abner Haynes for all that he did include break the color-line in Texas division I colleges... almost 10 years before the SWC accepted integration..... He went through a lot that most of us don't understand or know about. You younger members have no clue what he went through.... plus he also was a stand-out player in professional footbal. Both of these men seem like far better candidates....

To answer one post..... the DD suggestion seems crazy to me as well. Like I said when I first posted... I knew this would not be popular with everyone (especially the younger members) but I am never afraid to speak how I feel.... I think the other two (and older) names I mentioned are far more deserving.

I would hope players like Joe Greene and Abner Haynes have earned a little more than having a practice field named after them. Yes I am one of the younger members on the board, but I feel like the death of a young man like Andrew should serve a purpose and not be forgotten.

[Smitty]

--Why not Joe Greene field.... He was an all-American (have we ever had another). He was a fine person. He went to the NFL where he was an all-pro many times.... he played on Super Bowl teams..... He is our only NFL hall of Fame member and if it were not for him would we be called the "Mean Green today?...... It seems like he deserves it and has been a great role model and even one of the most popular TV commercials of all time features him...

---I would rather honor him.... or even Abner Haynes for all that he did include break the color-line in Texas division I colleges... almost 10 years before the SWC accepted integration..... He went through a lot that most of us don't understand or know about. You younger members have no clue what he went through.... plus he also was a stand-out player in professional footbal. Both of these men seem like far better candidates....

I would also like to see something of significance in the new village named for Abner Haynes. That's a really good idea.

I'd like to see the practice field named for Andrew for reasons that have been stated. But perhaps there is a more important purpose, which ties into the objections expressed. Naming the field honors him but can also serve as a cautionary tale to those who come after. Andrew can remind future players that they are not indestructible, and while they may be young, healthy, great athletes, they are still mortal, and one terrible mistake can cost them so dearly. It's a story with remembering.

[adman]

--Why not Joe Greene field.... He was an all-American (have we ever had another). He was a fine person. He went to the NFL where he was an all-pro many times.... he played on Super Bowl teams..... He is our only NFL hall of Fame member and if it were not for him would we be called the "Mean Green today?...... It seems like he deserves it and has been a great role model and even one of the most popular TV commercials of all time features him...

---I would rather honor him.... or even Abner Haynes for all that he did include break the color-line in Texas division I colleges... almost 10 years before the SWC accepted integration..... He went through a lot that most of us don't understand or know about. You younger members have no clue what he went through.... plus he also was a stand-out player in professional footbal. Both of these men seem like far better candidates....

Let me guess, you're a Baptist?

It's my understanding some AD's wife or HC's wife coined us Mean Green years before Joe Greene ever palyed for us and if that's the case your arguement is bunk.

Second Andrew piloted us to out first bowl win in how many years? Mean Joe didn't neither did Abner. And while Abner may have broken color lines I'd wager Andrew had to deal with his own amount of crap with regards to race during his life as well.

Finally, who cares how he died. The kid is dead. It's tragic. It was a horrible accident. Naming practice fields after him isn't celebrating how he died or what he was doing the moment he died. It's celebrating his life and accomplishments at NT. I'm pretty confident, if given the choice, he'd rather be alive and not have practice fields named after him.

We're all going to die of something and if people want to reduce who we are & what we are to how we die then they can go to hell. Life is so much more than how you die.

[Bryan316]

And while Abner may have broken color lines I'd wager Andrew had to deal with his own amount of crap with regards to race during his life as well.

If I remember right, Andrew was one of the folks the KAs yelled at, and yet he still decided to come to NT. He was a good player and a good person. He helped make 2002 one of the best years in NT football history. He died tragically and alone, influenced by a few bad decisions. I have friends that drove home in a similar condition that Andrew was in, and they were lucky. Andrew wasn't. He was a great leader on and off the field, and that's what should be remembered first and foremost, while the details of his departure can serve as a reminder/warning to those that follow.

"If it is to be, it is up to me."

[JayDub]

Finally, who cares how he died. The kid is dead. It's tragic. It was a horrible accident. Naming practice fields after him isn't celebrating how he died or what he was doing the moment he died. It's celebrating his life and accomplishments at NT. I'm pretty confident, if given the choice, he'd rather be alive and not have practice fields named after him.

We're all going to die of something and if people want to reduce who we are & what we are to how we die then they can go to hell. Life is so much more than how you die.

Thank you. Perfectly said.

**edited down to remove inflammatory, offensive comments regarding conservative, Christian, closed-minded, "holier-than-thou" types

Edited January 1, 2007 by JayDub

[eulesseagle]

IMHO the name of the facility should be changed to the Jim Mac Practice Facility in honor of the "rags to riches" story of the man who donated the money. Also, not to chide all the great and not so great players that have played for North Texas, since its inception, a memorial obelisk should be erected with the names of all NT players.

It is my belief that DD wanting to have the name changed from the DD Practice facility to the AS Practice facility was doing nothing more than creating another controversy, similar to the "black recreational jersey" incident in the FAU game. DD knew, as well as the rest of us, when the coroner said AS was "drunk" and "stoned" when he had his tragic accident that this topic would create another controversy......which by all means it has.

Like the rest of you I do not support illicit activities, that are against the law, even though most of us have done them in the indiscretions our youths. A great author once said, and I paraphrase, when I was a child I thought as a child and did childish things but when I became a man I put away my childish things.

If AS was suppose to be a team leader why are you trying to memorilize a practice facility for someone with such and forever a tarnished reputation??? I really do not care if AS led UNT to a bowl game & I really do not care what sort of "future potential" AS may have had with UNT. He may have had plenty of positive attributes but he broke the law and paid for it with his life and thank goodness he did not "kill" anyone else in his drunken and stoned state.

For those of you who want to put AS's name in the end zone of the practice facility make sure you put a rolled up doobie and a can of beer by his name too.

[the green rokemi]

While I don't mind them naming the fields after Drew Smith, I do agree with Screaming Eagle that there a better names to consider especially since there are moral questions regarding his death....

[JayDub]

For those of you who want to put AS's name in the end zone of the practice facility make sure you put a rolled up doobie and a can of beer by his name too.

This is unnecessary.

I'm sure you've never done ANYTHING that may be considered illicit in your life. Mistakes are made in life. We learn from mistakes like the ones Andrew made. But to kick him while he's down, as well as insult those of us who support this decision, with a statement like that is just unnesscessary....grrr. And it really makes me wonder, if you're so high and mighty, why you insist on making hurtful statements like this. Love your fellow man despite his flaws...and remember that there's a family that was hurt by this as well.

You just went and got me all lit up about this one....let's go...

*re-edited for flow*

Edited January 1, 2007 by JayDub

[eulesseagle]

JD--

In all reality, AS only started in a handfull of games at NT and did well. We will never know what he could have done in his "potential" years at NT.

JD, if you want to idolize a young man who only played at NT a couple of years and started a handfull of games who was killed on the road while drunk and stoned that is your business, not mine. I tend to hold the people I respect to a MUCH higher standard and I "try" to lead my life accordingly. Yea, we all make mistakes and I have made my share of mine like the rest of you and I mean ALL of you. The DIFFERENCE is that I do not "idolize" and try to make memorials (in wanting name a practice facility after him or put 12 brass knobs on a cannon) to a drunk and stoned individual who kill himself on the road and only played a handfull of football games at NT. Thank goodness he only killed himself and not anyone else.

AS not only destroyed his life but NUMBER 1 his family, his close friends, his team, his university and those of you who think how he died was acceptable.

If you want to memorilize him then memorilize him with ALL the men who played at NT since our inception on an obelisk.

What AS did was wrong......dead wrong.....and these actions & behaviors should not be idolized and memorilized individually.

Edited January 1, 2007 by eulesseagle

[UNTLifer]

I believe there are appopriate ways to memorialize Andrew, but this isn't it. I'm not sure what is, but let's consider another former player that was killed while playing for the Mean Green. Bernard Jackson was probably on his way to being our best RB ever when he was shot and killed outside the old Mean Green Inn nightclub on Eagle Dr. This occurred the night prior to, I believe the SMU game, in the early to mid 70's. Should something be named after Bernard? I don't know the answer. Should something be named after Andrew? Possibly, but is the practice field the appropriate "something?" In my opinion I don't think so.

Let me guess, you're a Baptist?

adman, what does that mean? First off, I'm not Baptist, but have attended a Baptist church in the past. Are you assuming they are judgmental and wouldn't approve? There are alot of good religious people in this world that believe in the Bible as the truth and believe actions that go against its teachings are a sin against God. But let's not forget that none of us are perfect, and we all have our shortcomings that go against what the Bible teaches. That is why Jesus died for our sins.

People die by all methods and means. Could AS's death been avoided by better decision making? Sure, but so could of thousands of others. Again, I don't know if naming the field is appropriate or not and my opinion doesn't really matter because I don't have $1,000,000 to purchase the right. MM did and bought the right to do that within reason. Naming the field after AS is within reason.

Edited January 1, 2007 by UNTLifer

[JayDub]

No one is excusing the actions that led to his death. No one is "idolizing" anyone here. I have no respect for an individual who choose to put themselves in that situation. Too many lives have been shattered under those circumstances.

That said...we're not talking about Andrew Smith 'the person' here. We're talking about Andrew Smith the 'North Texas QB'. It's not a reward for the actions that night leading up to his death. It's about honoring his actions on the football field. By all accounts, he was a team leader and, though he failed his teammates and his team the night he passed, he did not fail them on the football field. He led this team through an incredibly successful season and, for those reasons alone, the practice field should be named after him. It will serve as not only a reminder of how this team can be successful, biut the consequences of poor decision making.

My primary beef with your post, EE, is the comment about how those of us who want this should put "a rolled up doobie and a can of beer" by his name. It is an insult to those of us who support this move as well as the Smith family. None of us here condone drug use or drinking and driving...if anyone here does, they should be dragged out into the street and shot. That comment served no other purpose than to rub it in the collective faces that Andrew's legacy was tarnished somewhat.

All in all, what happened to Andrew was sad and it is obvious he made some poor decisions. However, as it was stated before, let's not remember him for how he died. If we remember nothing more than that small moment at the end of Andrew's life, then there's something wrong with us.

[JayDub]

I believe there are appopriate ways to memorialize Andrew, but this is isn't it.

Then what the hell do you suggest? The toilets? That seems to be the moronic consensus here...that Andrew is worthy of being honored, but not with having a practice field named after him...just something no one will know about or see. Then why bother memorializing him at all?

Then tell me what you suggest?

Edited January 1, 2007 by JayDub

[UNTLifer]

Then what the hell do you suggest? The toilets? That seems to be the moronic consensus here...that Andrew is worthy of being honored, but not with having a practice field named after him...just something no one will know about or see. Then why bother memorializing him at all?

Then tell me what you suggest?

First, I totally agree the comment about the "rolled doobie and can of beer" are inappropriate and lack taste.

To answer your question, I'm not really sure. Maybe the trophy case in the new AC for instance?

For what it is worth, there is a room in the PEB named after a man that was instrumental in planning that facility. He was a long term member of the faculty and suffered a lengthy illness and premature death and never saw the completion of this facility. Should that facility have been named after him? No. His office was turned into a memorial conference room. People that don't enter the PEB will probably never know this or see the meeting room, but his family is proud of this honor the university gave in his memory and would have balked at the idea that the entire facility be named after him.

Maybe someone should contact the Smith's and let them know that the university would like to name something in Andrew's honor and see what they suggest or what they think is appropriate.

[LoveMG]

I believe there are appopriate ways to memorialize Andrew, but this isn't it. I'm not sure what is, but let's consider another former player that was killed while playing for the Mean Green. Bernard Jackson was probably on his way to being our best RB ever when he was shot and killed outside the old Mean Green Inn nightclub on Eagle Dr. This occurred the night prior to, I believe the SMU game, in the early to mid 70's. Should something be named after Bernard?

yes, where are the bernard jackson memorials?

[Coach]

There are some people I have lost a LOT of respect for in this thread.

Not naming the field after him doesn't teach anyone a lesson. He paid the ultimate price for his mistake. I believe that Andrew died for a reason, so that others may not make the same mistake. Naming the field after him would be a great tribute to a great player who passed tragically too soon.

[mad dog]

Guys, end the holy war please. Let's leave religion out of it.

[UNTLifer]

There are some people I have lost a LOT of respect for in this thread.

Not naming the field after him doesn't teach anyone a lesson. He paid the ultimate price for his mistake. I believe that Andrew died for a reason, so that others may not make the same mistake. Naming the field after him would be a great tribute to a great player who passed tragically too soon.

See, this is a no win arguement. Will I anyone be disappointed or "up in arms" if they name the practice field after AS? I don't think so. We all have an opinion in this, which is the point of these discussions and the message board. I know that when I think of his untimely death, I don't think of what was "in his system." I drive that stretch of highway quite a bit as it is between my home and my in-laws and think of him every time. I'll just leave the decision up to those in charge and be happy with it.

[MeanGreen61]

It's time to move on and let this thread to R.I.P.

[STE]

I believe that Andrew died for a reason, so that others may not make the same mistake. Naming the field after him would be a great tribute to a great player who passed tragically too soon.

That will only work if there is a plaque at or near the field explaining who Andrew Smith was, what he did for the team in 02 and how he died (DUI). Otherwise, our new recruits, two years from now will not even know who he is. So in my estimation – if you want to honor him and use that as a reason to teach others– you still have to acknowledge what he did that cost him his life. Otherwise you disrespect everyone who has ever been a victim of drunk driving.

[eulesseagle]

One, I was being factitious when I stated that a rolled doobie and a can a beer should be placed besides AS's name in the end zone. I really did not think anyone took that seriously.

IMHO and FWIW I really do not think the practice facility should be named after AS because of his deeds for what he did on or off the field. That is my belief and my belief only. Evidently others disagree for whatever reason and I can respect your opionion but I respectfully disagree with those opinions just as much as those who disagree with mine.

It is also my opionion that if you want to memoralize one individual you should memorialize all those who played the game at UNT and not just one person who only played a few games.

[kj86]

Let me guess, you're a Baptist?

Not sure where this fits in with the debate over whom facilities should be named for.

I agree with whoever stated that any memorial to Andrew should include clear statements regarding the circumstances surrounding this death and the memorial should be viewed as a lesson to those that follow.

[Cr1028]

On this note I only have 2 things to say.

1: This should be a memorial and a story to tell future players to make sure they don't make the same mistakes.

2: Would this even be an option if he had killed the truck driver?