Fun With Speculation

El Paso Eagle · December 13, 2006

Dodge can't beat better talent, but he can recruit better talent...give him a few years and we're going up-set some BCS teams like we should have in the last nine years. Our facilities are getting better and the stadium is coming...wait and watch fellows!
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You can beat better talent by being better prepared and having a solid game plan. The most talented team does not always win – or there would never be big upsets.

Eagle91Gator95 · December 13, 2006

Damn, I'm gone for 24 hours, and trigger fingers get this itchy? Wow!

(Note to self: No sudden movements or loud noises while on the GMG board for a while)

<---- back slowly away from the keyboard, avoiding eye contact with anyone.....

Cr1028 · December 13, 2006

One of the worst traits about Darrell Dickey was his belief that they would lose these games and he let it show to everyone.

I promise you, if you expect tol fail, you will always fulfill expectations.

How about a little bit of positive here on the board? Can we for once at least say there is a possiblity that we can win?

"Believe"

I'm sure the '88 Mean Green believed that they could beat UT and they almost did it. I'm sure the guys on the '75 team believed they could beat Tennessee and they did it.

Pessimism is the reason for the poor state of UNT's athletic following.

FirefightnRick · December 14, 2006

What TFLF is trying to say is that Dodge will be coaching against some pretty high caliber, experienced college coaches, not HS coaches who have guys that are 5'6" 140 filling their roster. The reference is what Dodge sees every week now as opposed to what he will see in Sept 2007. READ CLOSELY and now EXHALE SLOWLY, everybody OK now. Rick? You OK, take it easy partner.
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No he wasn't. He was trivializing TD's accomplishments with his usual, sarcastic negative ways.

As mentioned earlier, '07 titled the thread "FUN WITH SPECULATION". That's SPECULATION, not PREDICTION.

To answer your quesiton greenminer, No, I guess he doesn't.

Rick

Edited December 14, 2006 by FirefightnRick

TIgreen01 · December 14, 2006

Now that this team has a quality coach that can implement discipline, execution and whose character will be respected, EXPECT GREAT THINGS!!!
IF you are a UNT supporter, then show it. Lose the attitude and start promoting this program to the height that most of us think it deserves.
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Great post, Granny!

jtcozy · December 14, 2006

No he wasn't. He was trivializing TD's accomplishments with his usual, sarcastic negative ways.

Yes he was. Go back and read the whole thread especially the one where he mentions everyone thinking that he was referencing the current team. Finch is not trivializing TD or what he has done, only pointing out the fact that the team on the other sidelines on Saturday's in the fall of 2007 will not be grading papers or coaching PE Mon-Fri, but highly paid and accomplished coaches who have time to scheme each game and the talent to implement that plan. If you don't see that then you are blind.

December 14, 2006

If you don't see that then you are blind.
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Ok, even if that is the case, how hard is it to say "you dudes misunderstood me, I really meant _________" ?

I don't think it is that hard. I see it happen every day.

GreenGramma · December 14, 2006

Great post, Granny!
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Gramma just wants everyone to enjoy their 'milk and cookies' and appreciate they no longer have to eat sour grapes and drink that funny koolaid

UNTLifer · December 14, 2006

tired' head.
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Gramma use "tired head." Also, Dodge has won with less athletic talent at SLC for years.

GreenGramma · December 14, 2006

Gramma use "tired head." Also, Dodge has won with less athletic talent at SLC for years.
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Gramma's had 'tired head' since August, but has gotten a great nights sleep two nights now.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 14, 2006

Okay, folks, we're going to do this Amplified Bible style...

Mean'n'Green07 @ Dec 13 2006, 10:46 AM)

I agree with fake. Im excited by dodge, and i think the talent level will rise quite a bit in the next few years, but lets face the facts. I don't know if any coach in football could pull this off given the time restraints and our current athletes.

My response

It's not just given the time restraints and athletes [that would prevent any coach from pulling off an upset of an OU or Arkansas]. It's that Billy Bob High School Coach [who Todd Dodge currently faces every week at Southlake] isn't standing on the sideline of OU or Arkansas with a sideline full of undersized white kids [the suburban schools Southlake plays week after week] who are on the team more to have a better shot at the cheerleaders [the modus operandi of probably well over 4/5th of suburban kids who suit up in football uniforms and go through the motions] than to actually play football [very few Division I-A football players actually come out of District 5-5A]. [Discussion of future non-Billy Bob High School coaches Bob Stoops and Houston Nutt that Todd Dodge will have to scheme against next year and the type of athletes they have followed.]

It's not rocket science, folks; it's just a message board. Those of you with hundreds and thousands of posts may want to consider a life outside of the board every now and again. There is being a UNT graduate, and then there is an obsession with being a UNT graduate. Those of you who are obsessed, please, come down off the ledge.

I know it's hard to understand for some of you, but the world is full of people with different opinions - even among those who support the same cause. Hence, political parties that can include both Arlen Specter and Sam Johnson, Ted Kennedy and Chet Edwards. Hence, people who believe in Jesus have churches that do have instrumental music and churches that don't; churches that have women preaching and churches that don't; churches where priests and pastors wear robes, and churches where preachers and pastors wear suits. Etc., etc., etc.

With some of you, it's as if everyone must say that Todd Dodge has some ultra-system to install that will bug out the football world. Newsflash - he doesn't. It's called the spread offense. Variations of it have been making the rounds in college and pro football for the better part of three decades now. And, as already pointed out, many coaches Todd Dodge will face have already successfully defensed the master architects of the spread game, Steve Spurrier and Mike Leach.

It's just a point of view, nothing more, nothing less. You may agree with it, you may not. But, if you take it personally, open the yellow pages and find and phone a psychiatrist. Seriously.

FirefightnRick · December 14, 2006

Somebody say something?

Carry on!

Rick

greenminer · December 14, 2006

Okay, folks, we're going to do this Amplified Bible style...
Mean'n'Green07 @ Dec 13 2006, 10:46 AM)
I agree with fake. Im excited by dodge, and i think the talent level will rise quite a bit in the next few years, but lets face the facts. I don't know if any coach in football could pull this off given the time restraints and our current athletes.
My response
It's not just given the time restraints and athletes [that would prevent any coach from pulling off an upset of an OU or Arkansas]. It's that Billy Bob High School Coach [who Todd Dodge currently faces every week at Southlake] isn't standing on the sideline of OU or Arkansas with a sideline full of undersized white kids [the suburban schools Southlake plays week after week] who are on the team more to have a better shot at the cheerleaders [the modus operandi of probably well over 4/5th of suburban kids who suit up in football uniforms and go through the motions] than to actually play football [very few Division I-A football players actually come out of District 5-5A]. [Discussion of future non-Billy Bob High School coaches Bob Stoops and Houston Nutt that Todd Dodge will have to scheme against next year and the type of athletes they have followed.]
It's not rocket science, folks; it's just a message board. Those of you with hundreds and thousands of posts may want to consider a life outside of the board every now and again. There is being a UNT graduate, and then there is an obsession with being a UNT graduate. Those of you who are obsessed, please, come down off the ledge.
I know it's hard to understand for some of you, but the world is full of people with different opinions - even among those who support the same cause. Hence, political parties that can include both Arlen Specter and Sam Johnson, Ted Kennedy and Chet Edwards. Hence, people who believe in Jesus have churches that do have instrumental music and churches that don't; churches that have women preaching and churches that don't; churches where priests and pastors wear robes, and churches where preachers and pastors wear suits. Etc., etc., etc.
With some of you, it's as if everyone must say that Todd Dodge has some ultra-system to install that will bug out the football world. Newsflash - he doesn't. It's called the spread offense. Variations of it have been making the rounds in college and pro football for the better part of three decades now. And, as already pointed out, many coaches Todd Dodge will face have already successfully defensed the master architects of the spread game, Steve Spurrier and Mike Leach.
It's just a point of view, nothing more, nothing less. You may agree with it, you may not. But, if you take it personally, open the yellow pages and find and phone a psychiatrist. Seriously.
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um, welcome to the internet? Nothing new to the rest of us...

I've agreed with some of your posts, particularly the one about our defense. But I think you're going to have to accept the role of troll, whether it makes sense to you or not, because you've only come to happily play counter-argument when there's so much excitement on this board, and you seem quick to attack people's loyalty to the program and the player's motivations to play football. For what it's worth, I'll take a Mean Green fan for whatever reasons they have, and from whatever walks of life. Until you shown yourself as a regular, you seem to "fit the mold". The trolls don't ever admit to trolling. It's always about "looking at our reality".

When all of this "newness" dies down, will you continue to post? I, for one, think you've had some intelligent things to say. And would love to read more of it during the course of an entire season, and not just when we get excited about the hiring of a coach. You have a high post count, but when have most of them occurred? I don't recall any until the hiring of Dodge.

Some of us post a really, really high number of times per day. That doesn't mean they're spending more time on the board. Or have no life. So don't tell them to get one. Maybe they're just more vocal?

In Plumm's case, certainly more colorful

Okay, I'm done with this thread. It's pretty much pointless now. I eagerly wait to see what you and others have to say about the rest of this process...and season. I've said my peace, Cerebus! Please don't turn me upside down

-gm

Eagle1855 · December 14, 2006

I don't understand the problem with presenting an alternative point of view. So the guy has some reservations about hiring a high school coach to a DIVISION 1A program? Its not all that hard to understand why someone wouldn't hop right on board right away. I think he made some pretty good points. I was a total skeptic of the Dodge hiring at first- or any HS hiring(which had nothing to do with living in Houston)- but have warmed up to the idea a lot in the last month or so as I have had time to analyze it, research it, and accept it. I think its gonna be a good thing.

As to the conflict, that's the beautiful thing about message boards- its the confluence of differing ideas and opinions, coming from people with different perspectives, point of view. Lay off

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 14, 2006

Dear greenminer,

My life is such that I won't ever be a regular poster (wife, kids, job, etc.). I'll simply be a UNT grad who jumps in every now and again. If people who make this their life don't like it, that's their problem, not mine.

Warmest Holiday Regards,

The Fake Lonnie Finch

LongJim · December 14, 2006

I don't understand the problem with presenting an alternative point of view. So the guy has some reservations about hiring a high school coach to a DIVISION 1A program? Its not all that hard to understand why someone wouldn't hop right on board right away. I think he made some pretty good points. I was a total skeptic of the Dodge hiring at first- or any HS hiring(which had nothing to do with living in Houston)- but have warmed up to the idea a lot in the last month or so as I have had time to analyze it, research it, and accept it. I think its gonna be a good thing.
As to the conflict, that's the beautiful thing about message boards- its the confluence of differing ideas and opinions, coming from people with different perspectives, point of view. Lay off
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I have to agree. I guess I missed the "trolling" part of "The Finch Who Stole My Todd Dodge Christmas", but it takes all kinds, and I guess I can sift through any chaff that TFLF offers up. Quite frankly, I feel the concerns about the jump from HS to D1 are VERY valid.

Didn't take offense at the comments, and it's good to hear different viewpoints. It's interesting which posts and posters get jumped on for their opinions, and which don't. But heeeyyyy... that's the internet, right?

Cerebus · December 14, 2006

The biggest differnce on the field between 5A and D1A is going to be speed.

When I go shoot HS games, everyone seems SLOW. Then you have that one kid, who is twice as fast as everyone else, he looks superhuman. Then you realize he has a SHOT at becoming a D1A player.

The recovery speed is going to make Coach Dodge adapt his offense. You are going to see alot of time spent creating pre snap confusion. I think that is why he commented on using many more offensive sets in the press conference. He ran three formations at Southlake, that is going to double at least.

I am going to default to trusting that Coach Dodge can make the changes necessary, since his offense was able to move the ball and score when he was the OC here, but time will tell.

GreenN'walinsVet · December 14, 2006

Yes he was. Go back and read the whole thread especially the one where he mentions everyone thinking that he was referencing the current team. Finch is not trivializing TD or what he has done, only pointing out the fact that the team on the other sidelines on Saturday's in the fall of 2007 will not be grading papers or coaching PE Mon-Fri, but highly paid and accomplished coaches who have time to scheme each game and the talent to implement that plan. If you don't see that then you are blind.
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Just for a little insight, vert few upper level High School coaches in Texas actually teach anymore, these guys are hired for one purpose and one purpose only

to coach football

Cr1028 · December 15, 2006

The original post:

"Anyone think our chances of beating OU are better in 07 due to the element of surprise we'll have. i.e. OU not having game film of NT to study? Or do you think the learning curve for Dodges system will be too steep to be effective in the first game of the season?"

Fake Lonnie's reply:

"This is a joke, right?"

A simple answer could have been, no we don't have a better chance of beating OU with TD, we had a better chance with DD.

Elaborating by saying that it is impossible is like going to each play, looking them dead in the eye and saying "You don't have a chance, you might as well not even show up"

I for one prefer the positive, "I want you guys to go out and give it everything you've got, if you do that, who knows, we might surprise somebody"

Don't ever let a player think that you don't believe in them.

Green Grenade II · December 15, 2006

It's not just given the time restraints and athletes. It's that Billy Bob High School Coach isn't standing on the sideline of OU or Arkansas with a sideline full of undersized white kids who are on the team more to have a better shot at the cheerleaders than to actually play football.
Bob Stoops and Houston Nutt have seen spread offenses. Missouri didn't faze OU this year. Neither did Baylor or Texas Tech. Stoops and Nutt have both coached either with or against the spread offense Steve Spurrier runs.
What I'm saying is that some of you need to come around to the reality that what Dodge is selling isn't new. Yes, it's new around Denton. But, it's a philosophy Big 12 and SEC coaches have seen for well over a decade now, year in and year out.
Combine the athletic differences in the players at OU and Arkansas with the fact that their coaching staffs have already seen the spread and its varients, and we're better served focusing our energy on winning the Sun Belt again.
I personally think we have a chance to win the Sun Belt title next year, but not because of some offensive revival. Going 1-3 or 0-4 out of conference never hurt us before. And, as long as we insist on playing the OUs and Arkansas' of the world, that's what will happen.
A great defense gives you a chance no matter what the offense does. Think Baltimore Ravens, Chicago Bears. During their Super Bowl run a few years back, the Ravens got almost nothing from the offense, but the defense was so dominant that it didn't matter. The Bears have done that this year.
Despite our record, we've already got some players on defense. If Bleil or some Bleil-like guy is in charge of our defense, we can beat enough Sun Belt teams to win the conference title while Dodge "gets his system installed, gets the right players, etc., etc., etc."
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I'm listening to all this "it ain't gonna happen vs OU." May I suggest you wizards first ask OU how much they loved being knocked off by TCU. Then, you might want to revise your lane Darrell Dickey thinking. Todd Dodge is like Hayden Fry. He will have our players willing to run through a wall for him. Great things happen when this type motivation takes over. GO! MEAN GREEN! ENTER THE DRAGON!!!!

Cr1028 · December 15, 2006

I'm listening to all this "it ain't gonna happen vs OU." May I suggest you wizards first ask OU how much they loved being knocked off by TCU. Then, you might want to revise your lane Darrell Dickey thinking. Todd Dodge is like Hayden Fry. He will have our players willing to run through a wall for him. Great things happen when this type motivation takes over. GO! MEAN GREEN! ENTER THE DRAGON!!!!
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I'm behind ya.