Possibly the No.1 Criteria for our New Coach

FirefightnRick · December 7, 2006

As our friend SilverEagle continues to remind us, the Number 1 criteria for our new coach, who ever it may be, is that he MUST know how to build a program himself. Not sure if taking over a stable program counts or not. Probably not.

For me this is where Todd Dodge and Don Carthel leads the pack for me. Harbaugh might fit in that category as he built his own successful program at USD, but I checked out that situation and I'm not that impressed. Their league was pretty weak. They are 1-AA Non Scholarship, however they can qualify for the NCAA post season D 1 Championship series. But according to the NCAA, even though they finished ranked 16th in the nation, they were skipped over by three other teams that were not, including McNeese State who were ranked 22nd. Y'all remember how that whole playoff seeding thing went, so who knows. At the very least you can say Harbaugh BUILT his own program so that stands for something.

What are your other criteria?

Rick

PlummMeanGreen · December 7, 2006

As our friend SilverEagle continues to remind us, the Number 1 criteria for our new coach, who ever it may be, is that he MUST know how to build a program himself. Not sure if taking over a stable program counts or not. Probably not.
For me this is where Todd Dodge and Don Carthel leads the pack for me. Harbaugh might fit in that category as he built his own successful program at USD, but I checked out that situation and I'm not that impressed. Their league was pretty weak. They are 1-AA Non Scholarship, however they can qualify for the NCAA post season D 1 Championship series. But according to the NCAA, even though they finished ranked 16th in the nation, they were skipped over by three other teams that were not, including McNeese State who were ranked 22nd. Y'all remember how that whole playoff seeding thing went, so who knows. At the very least you can say Harbaugh BUILT his own program so that stands for something.
What are your other criteria?
Rick
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My other criteria, FFR?

They have to know what year the Battle of the Alamo and the Battle of San Jacinto took place! And they would have learned that in the 7'th grade of any Texas public school; albeit, a couple of our candidates for governor of Texas just recently did not know which year the Battle of the Alamo took place.

Seriously (and IMHO) UNT should be focussed on 3 strategic goals:

(1) Hire the right man for the job who can recruit DFW and the rest of Texas

(2) Get the rest of the funding for our new football stadium and then get it built

(3) A Mean Green Top 25 co-existance on an annual basis a la Boise State ; this is what will separate us from those other Texas D1-A (non-BCS/maybe 2 BCS) schools that we really need to separate ourselves from (in more ways than one)

Edited December 7, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

good_ken · December 7, 2006

As our friend SilverEagle continues to remind us, the Number 1 criteria for our new coach, who ever it may be, is that he MUST know how to build a program himself. Not sure if taking over a stable program counts or not. Probably not.

How would Harbough not make your top three there; if not the front runner by that criteria?

LongJim · December 7, 2006

As our friend SilverEagle continues to remind us, the Number 1 criteria for our new coach, who ever it may be, is that he MUST know how to build a program himself. Not sure if taking over a stable program counts or not. Probably not.
For me this is where Todd Dodge and Don Carthel leads the pack for me.
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Dodge took over a stable and successful program at SLC. He did not build it. He has done a fantastic job of ensuring it's ongoing success.

greenjoe · December 7, 2006

I've got to agree with Ken (not that that's a chore). Harbaugh has built a program in college, where, at least on some campuses, money is scarce. Harbaugh has built a successful program without the aid of scholarships to lure players as well as strict academic standards. I don't know if state money may be used for athletics in California, but this would certainly be different from the situation that Todd Dodge comes from. In SLC, the burden of a successful program is placed on the backs of the taxpayers ( a burden they gleefully carry, I'm sure).

I'll suupport whoever RV selects, but my criteria has always been, first, a head coach from the college ranks. If Jim Harbaugh wants to use NT as a stepping stone, then step here. His success is our success.

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Edited December 7, 2006 by greenjoe

eagle60 · December 7, 2006

Before you completely write off Harbaugh as being from out of state, consider that even teams like Boise State are loaded with California players, and they aren't doing too badly. So if he brought a few prospects with him we wouldn't turn our noses up, would we?

FirefightnRick · December 7, 2006

How would Harbough not make your top three there; if not the front runner by that criteria?
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Please read further down my original post beyond the first two lines. Harbaugh is mentioned as a top 3.

LongJim,

This was a good read into the situation TD stepped into.

http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30980

Nothing is stable in HS football. You lose 90 percent or more of your team every two years. How many state championships has Permian won since since Garry Gains left? How many state championships has the state HANDED over to Plano since Tom Kimbrough stepped down? How many state chammpionships has Daingerfield won since Dennis Alexander moved on to Henderson? Any more domination and state titles from 4A powerhouse Brownwood since the late Gordon Woond retired? How many state titles did Carrol win under Tom Rapp's leadership after taking over for one of the most successful coaches in 3A? Zero. Just because so and so won somewhere means nothing in High School. The turnover is simply too high for it to simply be "Austomatic" as some seem to think it is for SLC.

TD has built his system himself, maintained it through one full classification move and dominated along the way with a complete different style than Rapp or Ledbetter used before him.

Rick

mitchmaher · December 7, 2006

I'm still jumping on each day to see the latest on Coach Dodge. Rick, I couldn't help but wonder why you used the word "handed" when talking about Plano's State Championships and then emphasized it with capitalized letters.

I know you weren't looking for the answer, but it is one. Coach Gerald Brence led the Wildcats to the 1994 State Championship (I think that was the year).

Take care,

Mitch Maher

FirefightnRick · December 7, 2006

I'm still jumping on each day to see the latest on Coach Dodge. Rick, I couldn't help but wonder why you used the word "handed" when talking about Plano's State Championships and then emphasized it with capitalized letters.
I know you weren't looking for the answer, but it is one. Coach Gerald Brence led the Wildcats to the 1994 State Championship (I think that was the year).
Take care,
Mitch Maher
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Well of course I was being sarcastic Mitch, and I of course had forgotten that one. But it's been a long time since the Wildcats have been a household name since then. And no titles since that time that I can think of. And none since the others as well that I can think of, and the wins certainly haven't come in dominating fashion with the other schools as they once were prior to their coaches leaving.

Reason for my sarcasm is that many here feel there's just something in the water at places like SLC, Brownwood, Daingerfield or Plano. That the water YOU drank automatically made those who came after you helped Coach Brence to the state title three years later. That it's simply HANDED OVER, or HANDED DOWN to them because it's been tradition. That just isn't the case at all. Coaches have to rebuild and the best ones often do.

Rick

Edited December 7, 2006 by FirefightnRick

LongJim · December 7, 2006

LongJim,
This was a good read into the situation TD stepped into.
The turnover is simply too high for it to simply be "Austomatic" as some seem to think it is for SLC.
TD has built his system himself, maintained it through one full classification move and dominated along the way with a complete different style than Rapp or Ledbetter used before him.
Rick
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I wasn't trying to downplay what Dodge has done. He's a great coach and wildly successful. He's done an awesome job with his system, but he didn't exactly inherit an unstable program with no tradition or support. That was my point. He had a lot of pieces already in place, and worked closely with an AD who took SLC through 3 bumps up in classification with great success.

Your comment was "whether taking over a stable program counts or not". My point was that Dodge took over a stable, well-supported program when he took the SLC job. He didn't build SLC's program.

Here's another good article:

SLC

FirefightnRick · December 7, 2006

I wasn't trying to downplay what Dodge has done. He's a great coach and wildly successful. He's done an awesome job with his system, but he didn't exactly inherit an unstable program with no tradition or support. That was my point. He had a lot of pieces already in place, and worked closely with an AD who took SLC through 3 bumps up in classification with great success.
Your comment was "whether taking over a stable program counts or not". My point was that Dodge took over a stable, well-supported program when he took the SLC job. He didn't build SLC's program.
Here's another good article:
SLC
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Sure SLC was a stable program from many points. Especially with their facilities they had planned for when he got there, plus their tradition. But ask those that were there after Rapp first went 4-6 if they felt stable? And that is the point here that Dodge rebuilt their program his way. Not Tom Rapp's way, or Ledbetters' way. He did it his way. And now, his way is respected by coaches throughout the region and possibly the nation in which the fact that he had over 600 athletes from all over attend his summer camps this past summer as proof of this.

I simply like the fact that he's a teacher of the skills position. That leads to an exciting brand of football, something we have dearly needed at NT for what, about 12 years now?

Rick

mitchmaher · December 7, 2006

Hey Rick,

As I understand Corky Nelson used to say, "I hear ya." I had just noticed when you referred to Permian, you said they had "won" their championships. When referring to Daingerfield, you used the word "won." When Brownwood, the word "domination." And when Southlake, "win." But, when you referred to Plano, you said that the state "HANDED" them their State Championships.

Just wondering if you were taking a shot at my Wildcats!!!

No doubt, the glory has departed from dear ol' Plano. Boy, they had a spark last year, didn't they!

Anyway, hoping for Dodge.

Take care,

Mitch Maher

Stan R · December 7, 2006

I simply like the fact that he's a teacher of the skills position. That leads to an exciting brand of football, something we have dearly needed at NT for what, about 12 years now?
Rick
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Amen to that brotha.

shaft · December 7, 2006

Dodge has experience building D1 football programs? Didn't see that on the resume. And lets not for get the top 10 richest school districts win the majority of all UIL awards.

The number 1 criteria for the new coach is personality. Remember its the HC job to smile, shake everyone's hand who comes to the game, and have an open door policy even durring practice. After all its his job to make each and everyone one of us feel like were the most important person in world.

FirefightnRick · December 7, 2006

Dodge has experience building D1 football programs? Didn't see that on the resume. And lets not for get the top 10 richest school districts win the majority of all UIL awards.
The number 1 criteria for the new coach is personality. Remember its the HC job to smile, shake everyone's hand who comes to the game, and have an open door policy even durring practice. After all its his job to make each and everyone one of us feel like were the most important person in world.
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who ever it may be, is that he MUST know how to build a program himself.

Re read and try again Shaft. Continueing to mope about and criticising the decision to fire your daddy isn't going to bring him back, by the way.

Rick

Edited December 7, 2006 by FirefightnRick

NCMeanGreen · December 7, 2006

My other criteria, FFR?
They have to know what year the Battle of the Alamo and the Battle of San Jacinto took place! And they would have learned that in the 7'th grade of any Texas public school; albeit, a couple of our candidates for governor of Texas just recently did not know which year the Battle of the Alamo took place.
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Soooooo...what are the answers????

Eagle91Gator95 · December 7, 2006

As I understand Corky Nelson used to say, "I hear ya."
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Man, I hadn't thought of that in years. Anyone assoicated with a CN team could impersonate that term with a raspy voice to perfection, even the female student trainers!!

Thanks for the trip down memory lane!

Oh, and on the original topic, the most important trait in our new head coach? I say the most important factor is a smoking hot wife!!

Edited December 7, 2006 by Eagle91Gator95

kj86 · December 7, 2006

Seriously (and IMHO) UNT should be focussed on 3 strategic goals:
(1) Hire the right man for the job who can recruit DFW and the rest of Texas
(2) Get the rest of the funding for our new football stadium and then get it built
(3) A Mean Green Top 25 co-existance on an annual basis a la Boise State ; this is what will separate us from those other Texas D1-A (non-BCS/maybe 2 BCS) schools that we really need to separate ourselves from (in more ways than one)
←

I'm okay with these being strategic goals, but you're not saying that (2) and (3) are expectations you have of our new coach, are you? He should contribute to making these a reality, but I'm not expecting him to accomplish (3) unless he sticks around for quite some time. I think he'd be hired away long before (3) happens. Somewhere in the top 50 within 3 or 4 years is a reasonable expectation.