Just the facts....

[marc_moffitt]

It is hard to say that Coach Jones is not improving our program.

Statistically, we have improved. One game in the 05-06 season could have made them have a better win% than the previous year. We all know that many of those games came down to the wire and could have been won.

Here are the stats...

SEASON.......W-L...........PCT

2002-2003... 7-21..... 0.2500

2003-2004...15-15.... 0.5000

2004-2005...16-14.... 0.5333

2005-2006...15-14.... 0.5172

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

Again, accepting mediocrity. A winning percentage increase of 0.0172% in 3 seasons isn't exactly what I would call great progress. But I would also like to see this team do great things and am not really happy with only being decent.

[GrandGreen]

It is hard to say that Coach Jones is not improving our program.

Statistically, we have improved.  One game in the 05-06 season could have made them have a better win% than the previous year. We all know that many of those games came down to the wire and could have been won.

Here are the stats...

SEASON.......W-L...........PCT

2002-2003... 7-21..... 0.2500

2003-2004...15-15.... 0.5000

2004-2005...16-14.... 0.5333

2005-2006...15-14.... 0.5172

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Not sure why you chose the sample above to demonstrate Jones is improving the program. 2001-2002 was Jones first year were he was 15-14. Jones did improve over Trilli's results but that is a very small feat. Because of the number of cupcakes being scheduled last year and this, it may be better to judge based on the conference numbers.

2001-2002 8-7

2002-2003 2-13

2003-2004 8-7

2004-2005 6-9

2005-2006 6-9

Based on the conference numbers, Jones' teams are getting worse not better. I don't think RV will even consider terminating Jones until his contract ends after the 2006-2007 season. Although in my opionion, if this years team is not substantially better he does not derserve another season.

[marc_moffitt]

Grand Green,

Actually I agree with you on the conference stuff, I think it is better to look at records that way.

I thought Johnny came in during 02

Thanks for correcting me

[raygogreen]

Again, accepting mediocrity. A winning percentage increase of 0.0172% in 3 seasons isn't exactly what I would call great progress. But I would also like to see this team do great things and am not really happy with only being decent.

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[raygogreen]

Let me start this by saying I've been going to NT basketball since the original "Snake Pit". And every coach NT has had since then either couldn't coach or couldn't recruit. Period

And the "grass is always greener" argument is always there. I watched Bill Blakely take a losing team and turn it into 3 twenty game winners. They maybe had the most talent of any NT teams, but they were largely recruited by assistant coach, Billy Tubbs who left after the 1st year. And talk about cupcake schedules! But that was because we left the Missouri Valley to become an independent to support football aspirations. Talk about knee jerk "grass is greener" decisions.

The next best years were under Gales and our only trip to the NCAAs. Good teams, but one player put us over the top: Ronnie Morgan. Morgan was easily the best low block player at NT I have seen. Imagine if he had been here for more than 1 year! In basketball, one good player puts you over the top. Look at Denver in the last two years or Western Kentucky's history. Gales could recruit, but not cosistently the best players when your schedule consisted of two months of conference road trips by bus in Loiuisiana and Texas. The Southland was always ranked on the low end for conferences with bids or play-ins to the NCAA.

Now we are in a conference that is ranked in the middle of the pack as far as power rankings. Not great but not bad. We are competitive, but wish we could do better. Recruits are getting better, and unlike under Trilli, are mostly stying with the program. The wins this year have been against mostly good teams. Turnovers have cost us, but the turnovers are mainly by new players. The adjustment to new players, especially at point guard, takes time. Just ask Avery Johnson. If we had not lost our point guard from last season (Brown), to cut down on turnovers, and then Davis to frustration, my guess is we would be undefeated.

In my recollection, this is team ranks with Gale's NCAA playoff team and Blakely's 20 win teams as far as talent and competitiveness. We have good inside and outside players, as well as depth. Times are getting better.

[drex]

I was at the old pit with you, but do not remember things quite the same. We had some sporadic upsets of nationally ranked teams at the pit, but overall we were average....of course, we played in the tough valley. Blakeley is the only coach to have us nationally ranked. Sure, he played a lot of soft teams, but we lead the nation in scoring and were the darlings of the media back then. No one has shown up since the valley days and Blakeley to field a consistently good team. There was the Jankovich fluke in 93-94, but we do not need flukes, we need a consistently building program. Jones is a good man and I wish him luck this season, but I do not sense that the very athletic team this year will finish any better than the past ones. I hope I am wrong.

[raygogreen]

I loved watching Blakeley's run-and-gun teams. Never missed a game. And they were ranked, until they played someone of calibre and lost. Walter "Weasel" Johnson was one of our best point guards ever and combined with Melvin "Lurch" Davis to make our best nicknamed team. I also remember the "Pacer Pitch-in" to attract fans. Fred Mitchell from the elbow, Carl Jones and Norvell Miles from 3-point land (before it counted), and Terry Bailey as the best snow-bird in college history (and a good player otherwise).

[BleedGreen64]

You felled to mention Blakley's guard combo of Little Joe Hamilton and Crest Whittaker, both of whom went to the pros.

[raygogreen]

Thought they were pre-Blakeley but chould be wrong.

Blakely had Spud Web signed here but was fired that year because by that time they decided he could not coach or recruit.

[GrandGreen]

Raygogreen you have identified the best three eras of NT basketball in the last 40 years, Spikas last MVC teams, Blakeley's early teams, and Gales Southland championship teams.

Hamilton and Whitaker played for Spika and both went to the pros, but Whitaker was a free agent in football. Other contributors Willie Davis, Bill Cutter, Mathew Huff, Mort Fraley and Leroy Winfield who did play in the NBA a number of years. Winfield was 6'2 played forward and jumped center for the team.

Blakeley's only winning teams were based on Robbins/Tubbs recruits. Blakeley's freshman class recruited by the prior coaching staff included Melvin Davis and Fred Mitchell both 1st all state (5 player team not the large number now classified as all state) in the largest classification. Class also included Kenneth Williams a second team all state which gave little ole NT 3 of the top 10 high school players in the state. Add to this, Terry Bailey a first team Juco all american and a great shooting guard red shirt Carl Jones. Blakeley did recruit Weasel Johnson, the misssing piece to the puzzle.

Gales' NCAA team included Ronnie Morgan who actually played two years, the other stars were Phillip Worrell, Wendell Williams and Deon Hunter. If they could have made a layup they would have given North Carolina a game in the first round of the NCAA's.

[DeepGreen]

Hamilton and Whitaker played for Spika and both went to the pros, but Whitaker was a free agent in football.  Other contributors Willie Davis, Bill Cutter, Mathew Huff, Mort Fraley and Leroy Winfield who did play in the NBA a number of years. Winfield was 6'2 played forward and jumped center for the team.

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You are dead on. Good times at the Pit against a tough Missouri Valley conference. And I have never in my life seen a player jump like Lee Winfield. The guy had spring coils built into his legs. An amazing athlete.

[chrisfisher]

I think we need to give Jones until the end of next season. He has been building the program slowly, but time is running out. I am really impressed with the quality recruits Jones has talked into transferring from big time programs to UNT, plus some good local recruits, aka Mangrum. I think we need to give him one more season to see if this team comes together. I really wish Kendrick had one more year!

This season we have a bunch of new starters as well as bench players. They are playing like a team that hasn't played together before. Throw in the Davis meltdown, and you have a team struggling to play consistently. Moreover, I think the turnover problem has more to do with our teams overwhelming desire to win....I actually say this as a negative. IMO, they are so worried about making mistakes they get rigid in their ball handling/passing/shooting. When player stops using his instincts and over thinks things, he loses his automatic ball handling skills. This results in poor decision making, losing control of the basketball, missing easy shots, etc. The best example of this is our first half play in most of our games. We come out over eager, forcing things, over thinking things... basically making the game hard on ourselves and making stupid errors. Second half starts... they come out more relaxed and settled down, and we play worlds differently.

[Keith7]

I don't know what people are crying about, we are 5-2 and looking like a strong contender in our conference.. Why all the negativity? things are actually looking up

[Harry]

Why was Morgan here only 1-year? Was he a transfer?

[chrisfisher]

I don't know what people are crying about, we are 5-2 and looking like a strong contender in our conference.. Why all the negativity? things are actually looking up

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I am not sure who you are addressing this too, but I can say I did not mean to be negative. I agree that things are looking up. Nonetheless, the turn overs are very concerning. We have been doing this even in a few of our wins (ex. Texas State game) and getting away with it. However, we melted down during Nebraska.

You have to ask yourself a question, which was the basis of my analysis: Why do players who obviously know how to dribble, pass, and shoot very well come out and play horrible for a half. How many times did players bounce the ball on their foot only to send it out of bounds? Or throw the ball away? Or were not ready for the pass? Or missed the open shot? Why can they look bad one half, and then in another half look like a different team? That was the question I was trying to answer. With 27 turn overs and poor shooting, you'd think we would have lost by more than 19. We could have won that game, but we didn't have our heads screwed on straight. Our boys wanted that win toooo badly. It affected every aspect of their game. They were nervous, rigid, and over thought everything.

[raygogreen]

On Morgan, I don't remember exactly. I seem to remember him having some health problems, blood pressure and such. I also think he had a young family to support.

[raygogreen]

I don't know what people are crying about, we are 5-2 and looking like a strong contender in our conference.. Why all the negativity? things are actually looking up

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Don't count me in that group. I like what Jones is doing and think he should be given more time rather than less. Changing a culture, building tradition takes time. First, the competitive level has to change in practices, which I sense is now there. The wins on the road against good teams (starting with the near miss at A&M last year-look where they are now!), says the players are starting to believe. Now, they need to sustain it through a whole season.

I also think a good basketball fan is crazy for not going to the games-its one of the best values around. I take my sons (11 and 13) and we sit down close and watch. But then again, I owned Maverick season tickets in the early years and sat down close too. Then they started winning and priced me out!

[GrandGreen]

Why was Morgan here only 1-year?  Was he a transfer?

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Morgan was recruited out of high school, I think he went to SOC were Gales had been coach. The official reason given for Morgan not playing his last two years were medical issues, high blood pressure. However, I think he did play international ball after he left NT so there may have been other factors.

[GreenBat]

Morgan withdrew from NT and played BB in Isreal after he left NT. I was working at the NT Daily at that time.

[FirefightnRick]

As I remember it, and I could be forgetting some here, but Morgan was SLC freshman of the year the 1st year in '88? The next year he had a blood disorder(pressure?) problems and sat out most of the year. His junior year he didn't qualify and quit to play over seas. He was the last good Big Man to play at NT, and he wasn't really all that big. He was a big body but not all that tall. However, he had sweet hands, could dribble down inside and could move the ball on anyone. He rebounded very well and unlike most of the Big Men after him, he was actually able to get off the floor by more than an inch when he went after a rebound. But the most favorable thing I recall of him is that he had a very nice soft touch shot off the glass.

I find it hard to believe that it's been 18 years since we have had anyone even close to his talent level.

Rick

[EagleD]

I find it hard to believe that it's been 18 years since we have had anyone even close to his talent level. 

Rick

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Rick, I believe Trilli's teams had close to that talent level, but Trilli couldn't coach swimming to a dolphin.

GO MEAN GREEN !!!!!!!!!