Help me understand something

UNTFan23 · November 30, 2006

PMG, your posts are a joy to read.
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You read those?

Cr1028 · November 30, 2006

You read those?
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haha, yes, most of them

FirefightnRick · November 30, 2006

I have concerns about a high school coach who hasn't sniffed the college game in more than a decade and was .500 at best -- even in HIGH SCHOOL -- until getting the no-one-has-ever-failed-here job at SLC,
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Carrol went 3-6-1 in 1996, and 6-4 in 1999 and also missed the playoffs that year under Tom Rapp. The next year in came Todd Dodge who led them to 9-5 and finished in the regional finals that year.

Here's a Q&A with TD that gives more insight into who he is and how he runs his program.

http://www.scholastic.com/coach/article.asp?ItemID=291

Rick

Edited November 30, 2006 by FirefightnRick

UNTBill · November 30, 2006

Carrol went 3-6-1 in 1996, and 6-4 in 1999 and also missed the playoffs that year under Tom Rapp. The next year in came Todd Dodge who led them to 9-5 and finished in the regional finals that year.
Here's a Q&A with TD that gives more insight into who he is and how he runs his program.
http://www.scholastic.com/coach/article.asp?ItemID=291
Rick
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Thanks for the info, Rick. I, for one, would really, for all the previously posted reasons, like to see Dodge on the UNT sidelines next year!!!!!

UNTLifer · November 30, 2006

Not at the moment, but I'm still very close to the area. I still think it's apples and oranges. Knowing fellow 5A coaches because you coach against them is totally different than knowing them from a year round recruiting standpoint. It's a completely different relationship. Getting on TV a few times nationally doesn't exactly mean great recruits will flood into Denton either. For instance, take that La Salle HS out in California. They had a recent win streak and tradition that dwarfed SLC's, and have been on national TV just as often if not more. Do you know their coach - or anything about him? If Stanford hired him, would the earth shake in Palo Alto and recruits come running, or would you hear the small blurb that "hey, Stanford hired a high school coach"...
I don't get the logic that high school players will fall over each other to play for a high school coach, no matter how successful. The kid who was going to a BCS school still will. The kid who was going to UTEP or Houston or TCU still will. What gets players here is the situation -- a chance to play, winning, personalities "clicking", improved facilities, enhanced traditions, etc. The same things that get a kid to play anywhere. Not saying Dodge can't improve recruiting - I would hope that if he's hired here he can. But it won't be because he had good teams at Southlake Carroll, nor will it be because he was a .500 coach at Newman Smith. It'll be because he relates to the players well, has charisma, and runs a system that appeals to said player -- the latter not even really a factor until the second year -- his system would undoubtedly adapt itself to fit the college game.
And does the really good high school coach the kid just played against command more attention in mom & dad's living room than the SEC coordinator who talks about what it's been like working for Steve Spurrier the last few years??
I would support Coach Dodge 100%, but if he succeeds here it's because he's a good coach, not because of some mythical media boost we'd get. We'd take as many "bush league high school coach" hits (probably MORE) as we would get positive press for hiring someone with limited "big name" power outside the D/FW metroplex. As far as a "big name", nationally, there's no doubt a SEC coordinator would make a bigger splash than ANY high school coach.
I also think we REALLY overstate how much attendance would be affected because "hey, the old coach at SLC is at North Texas now!"... Did UH fill their stadium because they hired Briles?? Nah.. it was empty for three years, until Art started WINNING. We'll see our attendance up when we win. Period. When we have the coach best suited to put a good product on the field. Anything beyond that is a one game curious peek, nothing more.
Again, I'm not against hiring Dodge, and I don't support Nix anymore than Dodge. I just could care less about the "splash" either way. It's the same reason I've never been on the "get the biggest name you can" bandwagon. I want the best COACH. I want someone who wants to be here, who understands the situation, who can be patient through the growing process, and can develop the already growing base of a strong program over TIME, not a quick headline. I have concerns about a high school coach who hasn't sniffed the college game in more than a decade and was .500 at best -- even in HIGH SCHOOL -- until getting the no-one-has-ever-failed-here job at SLC, with huge advantages over almost every other program in the state. On the same token, I have concerns about a SEC defensive coordinator with no HC experience and no sure word on an offensive philosophy. Hell, you can find negatives and concerns about EVERYBODY. That's why none of us is the AD - I trust RV on this one.. he gets the interviews, he knows a million things we don't, and I have faith in his leadership. I'll agree with whoever he decides is the BEST COACH for the job, because he knows a lot more than I do.
I know one thing - he won't decide based on who gives him the best local paper headline, somewhere below the fold on the sports page. - Or based on what BCS coordinator gives him the best national boost - He'll hire the best coach for the job - for the long haul.
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I was just disagreeing with your statement that Dodge is marginally known in the Metroplex.

I agree with some of what you have to say and some is factually wrong, but that's what makes these boards interesting.

PlummMeanGreen · December 1, 2006

REVISED & SPELL CZECHED ON THURSDAY PM
CAN WE JUST SIMPLY LEARN ANYTHING FROM OUR ALMA MATER'S VERY, VERY POOR HISTORY OF HIRING HFC'S AND DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT THIS TIME AROUND? DUH?
The following written in the spirit of our having had a coach in an environment on our campus of which he actually thought a 42W**62L career record would have full support from those (many registered members on this forum) who would actually support his continued career and even with such a poor record at UNT AND...
...in all the following written in the spirit that we have our own alma mater who would even entertain the idea of naming any facility after such a coach with a 42W**62L career at UNT.
FWIW, folks, (and for the most part) these people are still making the decisions at our alma mater that we all have to live with long after their careers will be history at our main campus. (And BTW, I am not alone with the following feelings of which some of you who live in a sunshine, lollipops and rainbows green-tinted world will call all this being Negative Ned, but many of you who've been around awhile will actually likely agree with much of the following (although you won't post your agreement on any of this for whatever reason(s) that will be).
Yet it has been such silence as that which for about 2 1/2 decades and along with all our lack of demanding that our alma mater, ie, UNT hire those who would change our annual status quo in Denton; such status quo led by those who have had a most glaring lack of D1-A talent that has annually kept MG football from even being another "Boise State"; that is, that BSU Bronco FB program which have had national rankings beginnning almost from the time we left their very presence as a fellow member of the Big West.
Then we have Wright Waters and the Sun Belt rescue us? Or did it only merely help us in our maintaining a low co-existance in NCAA D1-A that had many of our elect basking in the glories of beating fellow bottom-feeders such as the ULM's, the ULaLa's, the MUTS, etc, etc, etc, AND WORSE....UNT even having had a coach who though he deserved yet another 9 years at UNT with his big 42W/62L career and for him to think that if could fool many the last 9 years he would have no problem doing the same in the next 9 years.
BUT HERE WE GO AGAIN......... good ol' UNT who have paid many, many athletic staff members some pretty damn nice salarie$ thru the years only for us to annually observe them sustain our (almost to be expected) low annual national rankings.
............................................................................
Helwig started and ended with someone he knew and DD's Big West non-success was a big reason Helwig lost his AD job; then he boogied out of Denton and we all inherit one of the strangest NCAA D1-A head football coaching careers many of us have even seen. Not only seen in decades of following MG football, but NCAA D1-A football period. Helwig's crony hire ended sorta strange, too, now didn't it?
If we don't learn from our history, then we're likely to.............oh hell, forget all that.............because I don't this school ever learns a damn thing from its athletic history and we annually suck major wind because of it (at the NCAA D1-A level, that is).
We seem to never learn or put together in our cognitive thinking abilities as to what works in Denton and what doesn't work in Denton and what can bring out new fans, either. Hell, we've never even attempted to duplicate that very part of MG football history that was considered a success at our highest profile (that is, who we we beating that was of any significance--not all that veiled success DD made famous in Denton and then couldn't understand why that didn't produce any interviews for him); anyway, it was the higher profile kind of football program that got many on this board involved in the first place. We almost lost a 59 year follower of MG football had DD not been fired, too. I even think that got the attention of some on campus, too.
Quite frankly..................many of us will literally be shocked if we don't screw up this hire and keep our 25 year tradition of mucked up hires going on. Many will be shocked if we actually get a HFC that the masses will actually give a damn about enough to raise football attendance from our usual 15K per home game averages instead of the 25-30,500 that it should have started being years ago. (Come on, people, we have about 6 million DFW Metroplex citizens most of whom live within 1 hour of Fouts Field and we can never average more than 15,000K per home game?
We also have a track record of many of our fans accepting chicken caca when chicken salad is waiting out there for all to enjoy. Proof? Look how many of you supported DD Ball almost to the end even after all those years of his insulting each and every one of you personally on the radio? Then he called our fans "MF'ers" as some of you sat in disbelief as to what you had just heard from that man and you don't go marching into the office of the president or chancellor of the University of North Texas within hours of such a comment? So just what are the limits of what some of our fans will continually accept (no questions asked) in our annual treck of our NCAA D1-A Bottom Quadrant co-existance?
That is why many of us don't this program may never go much further than SBC/Bottom 25 because our fans mindset seems to feel more at home there. It has become acceptable to the extent that even talking to a Neuheisel-type prospective hire is completely out of the question. So, yes, Todd Dodge, even at the HS level, has the name to sell tickets in this northern region of Texas; and someone else from elsewhere will most likely keep in frustration a very large portion of the MG fan base. This fan base needs no further division.
So let's just go ahead and screw up yet another UNT head football coaches hire and sign us up one who can join all the other "multi-years on the UNT staff" compadres in the UNT Athletic Dept. who plan to retire in Denton no matter how far down the D1-A ladder rung we continue. And they being a part of one of the most unsuccessful (across the board) athletic programs that says it wants to compete at the higest levels of NCAA D1-A.
So anyone else want to know why its going to most likely continue being the same ol' 15,000 faces per home game which means there will also be 15,000 empty seats staring right back when we get Buford T. Bucko from BF, (any state other than Texas) as the next head football coach at UNT?
There are just some things that are so easily predictable in Denton, Texas, America. Hide--Watch--See (and then you'll see it all for yourself)
SO PLEASE.............SOMEONE/ANYONE............. ON OUR CAMPUS, PLEASE CAUSE MYSELF AND OTHERS OF OUR "ALWAYS THE EVER SILENT GROUP" EAT SOME SOUTHERN FRIED CROW ON WHAT WE FEEL WILL BE JUST MORE OF THE SAME OF WHAT WE'VE MOSTLY HAD IN COACHES AND STAFF HIRINGS AT UNT THE LAST 25 PLUS YEARS.
UNT FOOTBALL MEDIA GUIDES AND OUR ANNUAL VERY LOW FOOTBALL NATIONAL RANKINGS AMONG ALL OF NCAA D1-A WILL SUBSTANTIATE ALL THAT WE ARE MOSTLY (and unfortunately) RIGHT ON TARGET CONCERNING HOW WE FEEL ABOUT ALL THIS; THAT IS, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WILL DARE FACE UP TO THE COLD HARSH REALITIES THAT WE HAVE FOR QUITE AWHILE NOW HAD A BOTTOM-FEEDING ATHLETIC PROGRAM IN DENTON THE LAST QUARTER OF A CENTURY.
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