To All:Not A "Proposed" Stadium:TxDot Says NT Must

PlummMeanGreen · November 23, 2006

I know all this "proposed" business we read in the DFW and Texas print media can be interrpreted 1 of 2 ways, but our "unbelieving" sports media may tend to make all this appear as: "Well, this is only a proposed stadium idea but it really might not ever happen in Denton."

Well...........most across our great sovereign state of Texas (including some of the media) still don't understand or realize the Texas Department of Transportation has already claimed (for their future usage) I35-E interstate frontage property almost adjacent to the Fouts Field Press Box side as their own by the laws of imminent domain so to all you new lurkers and visitors to www.GoMeanGreen.com-----

..............THIS NEW FOOTBALL STADIUM AT UNT WILL BECOME A REALITY--IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN! Right now, its only merely a matter of the time-table aspects of all this, but many are now hearing even more possible good news which may facilitate all this new stadium business happening much sooner than later.

The Future Is Bright In Mean Green Country! Bank On It!

Edited November 23, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

SilverEagle · November 23, 2006

It needs to be a minimum of 32 to 35K before anyone other than Baylor, SMU and/or TCU will come play here.

bison · November 23, 2006

If the stadium is not 40+ the University has made the next silly decision without any forsight.

Bill Ison, PhD

Alum 1992, 1998

PlummMeanGreen · November 23, 2006

If the stadium is not 40+ the University has made the next silly decision without any forsight.
Bill Ison, PhD
Alum 1992, 1998
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Totally agree...

If we build a stadium large enough to bring in a UT, OU (don't laugh, TCU has done it even at their Amon Carter Stadium & the fact that OU still plays in Dallas every year); also, a Nebraska, Iowa (formerly Fry-Land), etc, etc, etc, then you have a chance to have some pretty large turnstile numbers, super gate receipts and some very happy Denton area businesses, vendors and hotel/motel general managers.

So in other words, the eventual size of our new football stadium out at the Mean Green Village will affect many others than just those on our campus.

Edited November 23, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

LongJim · November 23, 2006

IMO, it needs to be at least 40K.

IslandEagle · November 23, 2006

IMO, it needs to be at least 40K.
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Absolutely. You can't think small and expect to be perceived as "big". But, I wouldn't be totally opposed to a two-phase operation, 30K plus with easy expansion to 40K or more IF that would get the stadium rolling. But, we take a chance. On the one hand, I've seen some 30K stadiums (USM is a good example) that are compact, close to the field and make a crowd of 15-20K look and sound like 40K. Having that "look" will automatically build crowds and excitement. But, if we get content with a small stadium, then we are being very short-sighted.

ntsumck · November 24, 2006

NT will not build a stadium less than 50K. They might start with 35-40K and have the option to expand. The goal is to have Big 12 and the like to come to Denton. Teams have stated in past negotiations that they need a bigger venue to have a home/home contract.

Many would have already signed a home/home if we would play at Texas Stadium, but RV does not want to play in Dallas.

I commend RV for trying to get teams to Denton. If we build a winning program we could have 35K minimum every week in Denton.

November 24, 2006

Sorry guys, but the plans call for a stadium of approximately 32,000 to be built first. The next stage is supposed to expand it to 50,000.

In my opinion, the only thing that would imporove on that plan might be admission into CUSA or the MWC. Only the teams in those conferences that would appear on an annual basis could justify a stadium of 40,000 or more.

Mean'n'Green07 · November 24, 2006

Sorry guys, but the plans call for a stadium of approximately 32,000 to be built first. The next stage is supposed to expand it to 50,000.
In my opinion, the only thing that would imporove on that plan might be admission into CUSA or the MWC. Only the teams in those conferences that would appear on an annual basis could justify a stadium of 40,000 or more.
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Anything less than 40k is stupid. If we want UT, ATM or OU to give us 2:1 deals we need need this. Costs will only go up in the future. We're expected to grow so build it big now.

Ideally I would want a 45K stadium that is like amon carter. Outsiders might argue that we rarely get attendance over 25k but look at how much athletics at UNT has grown over the last 5 years. If we continue to get new freshmen every year who are encouraged and attend football games, imagine how our attendance will look in 10 years.

It's almost like a dream to imagine us in a decent conference playing regional opponents with an OOC that has UT at home. A stadium alone won't complete this, but it will get us on the right path.

Mean'n'Green07 · November 24, 2006

One other question: If TxDot does need room and demolishes fouts field how much would they pay us for imminent domain? Could this be a base that would pay for 1/4 to half of the new stadium?

PlummMeanGreen · November 24, 2006

Anything less than 40k is stupid. If we want UT, ATM or OU to give us 2:1 deals we need need this. Costs will only go up in the future. We're expected to grow so build it big now.
Ideally I would want a 45K stadium that is like amon carter. Outsiders might argue that we rarely get attendance over 25k but look at how much athletics at UNT has grown over the last 5 years. If we continue to get new freshmen every year who are encouraged and attend football games, imagine how our attendance will look in 10 years.
It's almost like a dream to imagine us in a decent conference playing regional opponents with an OOC that has UT at home. A stadium alone won't complete this, but it will get us on the right path.
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I think its an unwritten architecture's law that says if you build using your yesterdays as your guideline that you'll eventually discover that your tomorrows will have many saying "wish we would have only built it larger."

I don't think UNT officials are holding their breath or would be depending on the Texas Department of Transportion (TxDOT) for much $ with the area that it appears they will be taking from UNT adjacent to our present football stadium.

As far as future conference affiliations go, who could ever begin to guess on that; but most of us older nestors and I'm sure many of you who are younger are still a bit shocked that we all lived to even see the Southwest Conference implode.

I think it will always be a matter of UNT having its product "all dressed up and ready to go" if there were any future openings in a higher profile league whatever league that would be. For now, I think we will need to bloom where planted in the SBC.

It was exciting to see the first step made on UNT's new stadium a few days ago with the Goldfield contribution. As they say (or something like this): The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step?

If we now need $60 million, I wonder if someone (or some corporation) in the Goldfield league gave half of that amount how long it would take UNT to raise the other half? With recent changes, I think UNT AD Rick Villerreal and other UNT fundraisers will have more willing to listen than ever before.

Wouldn't we all like to see the UNT Board of Regents be the ones who very publicly make this new stadium venture a most visible and well publicized endeavor?

I think few would disagree that we need a new stadium and that it would always be the one meeting place that the largest numbers of NT Exes will ever always collectively show up (even over a One O'Clock Lab Band concert--sorry, UNT College of Music folks; we are all very proud of all your accomplishments, but your audience over the course of a year is quite limited compared to even just one Game Day at UNT during any Fall).

Arkstfan · November 24, 2006

Anything less than 40k is stupid.
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You are ignoring how collegiate athletics works.

Overbuild and you can't sell season tickets effectively because the fan base KNOWS they can walk up and purchase a ticket at any time.

Something can be full and can be sold-out drives season ticket sales. Fans have to be concerned that they won't see the game they want to see or will be stuck in lousy seats to get them to buy season tix in appreciable numbers. When you reach that point you can start getting real money in donor club money and that's where the real money is in athletics.

Any reasonably intelligent design firm can create a stadium that can be easily and cheaply expanded. Central Florida is estimating their stadium can be done for less than $1,000 per seat and that cost includes site work and full infrastructure (lights, electricity, plumbing, press box, concessions, bathrooms, and installing the field). Arkansas State's expansion (east side deck and end zone seats) cost less than $100 a seat in 1990.

A properly designed 32,000 seat stadium could be expanded to 52,000 for less than $4 million today and if you are in a position that 32,000 seats is not sufficient affording $4 million would be easy.

CaribbeanGreen · November 24, 2006

You are ignoring how collegiate athletics works.
Overbuild and you can't sell season tickets effectively because the fan base KNOWS they can walk up and purchase a ticket at any time.
Something can be full and can be sold-out drives season ticket sales. Fans have to be concerned that they won't see the game they want to see or will be stuck in lousy seats to get them to buy season tix in appreciable numbers. When you reach that point you can start getting real money in donor club money and that's where the real money is in athletics.
Any reasonably intelligent design firm can create a stadium that can be easily and cheaply expanded. Central Florida is estimating their stadium can be done for less than $1,000 per seat and that cost includes site work and full infrastructure (lights, electricity, plumbing, press box, concessions, bathrooms, and installing the field). Arkansas State's expansion (east side deck and end zone seats) cost less than $100 a seat in 1990.
A properly designed 32,000 seat stadium could be expanded to 52,000 for less than $4 million today and if you are in a position that 32,000 seats is not sufficient affording $4 million would be easy.
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Bingo. To have an initial build over 40k would be a big mistake, both $$$ wise and attendance wise. This is why the plans are they way they are.

PlummMeanGreen · November 24, 2006

Bingo. To have an initial build over 40k would be a big mistake, both $$$ wise and attendance wise. This is why the plans are they way they are.
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Of course, if its $60 million we are going spend for a new football stadium one has to assume that it would seat much more than 32,000 no matter what the plans are. In fact, just what are the plans as I guess I have missed them along the way? And if we already have plans have they been made official by or UNT BOR's? Next question is: How could they possibly be official since the Goldfields just days ago gave the monies for the creation of plans for a new football stadium on our main campus?

IMO, the prime reasons you build a stadium at UNT that seats a minimum of 40,000 seats has nothing to do with the Sun Belt Conference or what we used to draw with what some called Dickey Ball OR what we've been doing in the past in general, but it does have to do with what will happen in the future such as:

(1) UNT's projected "not that long in the future" enrollment by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board is 43,000 students (They are petty accurate with their past forecasts).

(2) UNT can get 1 or 2 real bonafide "money games in Denton" (what a concept that would be for a change, eh?) per year with a larger stadium of at least 40,000. Even lower echelon SWC schools of the past used to do that at times because of all the aforementioned school's visiting fans.

You get to schedule those Longhorns, Aggies,Red Raiders, etc, etc, with those 2 for 1 type schedules and with their coming to Denton ever so often; and because of all that you've got some sellouts on your hands and then we have more flexibility with our annual athletic budget.

(3) Denton and Denton County are a U.S boom growth area. We have to think at some point we will have an imaginative enough marketing program that will actually bring in many, many, many new faces from all that growth coupled with our "always around" casual/borderline fans who are just waiting for something called exciting pull out all the stops football and playing to win in every quarter of every future football game, not all that "playing to keep it close till the 4'th quarter" baloney.

Edited November 24, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

CaribbeanGreen · November 24, 2006

Of course, if its $60 million we are going spend for a new football stadium one has to assume that it would seat much more than 32,000 no matter what the plans are. In fact, just what are the plans as I guess I have missed them along the way and if we have plans are they truly official? Next question is: How could they be official since the Goldfields just days ago gave the monies to create plans for a new football stadium on main campus?
IMO, the prime reasons you build a stadium at UNT that seats a minimum of 40,000 seats has nothing to do with the Sun Belt Conference or what we used to draw with what some called Dickey Ball OR what we've been doing in the past in general, but it does have to do with what will happen in the future:
(1) UNT's projected "not that long in the future" enrollment by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board is 43,000 students (They are petty accurate with their past forecasts).
(2) UNT can get 1 or 2 real bonafide "money games in Denton" (what a concept that would be for a change, eh?) per year with a larger stadium of at least 40,000. Even lower echelon SWC schools of the past used to do that at times because of all the aforementioned school's visiting fans.
You get to schedule those Longhorns, Aggies,Red Raiders, etc, etc, with those 2 for 1 type schedules and with their coming to Denton ever so often; and because of all that you've got some sellouts on your hands and then we have more flexibility with our annual athletic budget.
(3) Denton and Denton County are a U.S boom growth area. We have to think at some point we will have an imaginative enough marketing program that will actually bring in many, many, many new faces from all that growth coupled with our "always around" casual/borderline fans who are just waiting for something called exciting pull out all the stops football and playing to win in every quarter of every future football game, not all that "playing to keep it close till the 4'th quarter" baloney.
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The whole point is the "easily expandable" part. It makes fiscal sense to start at 32k or so and add on as needed. It's cheap, quick, defers cost, and can easily be done.