Why UNT didn't go WAC

El Paso Eagle · November 6, 2006

Because being in the WAC did wonders for SMU.
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I guess Wonders = C-USA

foutsrouts · November 6, 2006

Rick Stockstill, with just a few weeks on the job came into Dallas and signed a Dallas running back that Tulsa (uh..I think they're in C-USA) was expecting to sign. The Sun Belt affiliation didn't hurt MT, UNT offered as well, so you'll have to use an excuse other than conference affiliation.
Phillip Tanner Rivals Profile
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Uh, I'm not referring to individual recruiting anomalies such as Rick Stockstill, but I am referring to the decisions made by the ENTIRE POPULATION of recruits. There will obviously be exceptions that are even willing to sign on the bottom line at isolated outposts such as Murpheesboro and Jonesboro. Go figure.

shaft · November 6, 2006

"Go to the WAC will get us into a better conference latter" is a bad argument.

CUSA didn't care about what conference its new members were comming from it cared about what those programs brought to the table.

Simply being in a "bigger/better" conference doesn't increase the value of that program. You have to weigh things like increased payouts vs. increased travel expenses.

The WAC was a bad deal for us that's why we turned it down.

Arkstfan · November 6, 2006

Uh, I'm not referring to individual recruiting anomalies such as Rick Stockstill, but I am referring to the decisions made by the ENTIRE POPULATION of recruits. There will obviously be exceptions that are even willing to sign on the bottom line at isolated outposts such as Murpheesboro and Jonesboro. Go figure.
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You aren't getting it.

Your Sun Belt brethern are going after DFW recruits when they are juniors. UNT would come waltzing in around November of their senior year try to recruit them. Its not about being in the Sun Belt and its not weird exceptions to the rule. UNT doesn't have a clue how well it could recruit in the Sun Belt because UNT ain't doing it.

Only thing the WAC would give you is even greater embarassment. Ever been on a flight with a bunch of 6 ft plus 250 plus football players for hours? It's awful. They don't make seating arrangements to accomodate them. How they stand the flights home is beyond me. Especially when you land in Hawaii after 7 or 8 straight hours in the air and play a game the next day, and you are wheels up 5 hours after the game. Most teams schedule an open date after Hawaii because the travel is so rough.

UNTLifer · November 6, 2006

You aren't getting it.
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Don't get upset. For some reason, many on here don't.

GrandGreen · November 6, 2006

Geez, NT has a head coach that continually puts down the school and has constantly complained about the most difficult circumstances anywhere and some of you think conference affiliation is the problem with recruiting. H*ll, now NT is being outrecruited by their lowly Belt bethern in their backyard.

Yes the SEC, Big 12 would help recruiting, maybe even CUSA; but to think being in the WAC would help is a stretch. Flash, NT has not been asked to join any other conference than the WAC and that door has been closed. Didn't a thread just finish about how much more expensive and how little sense the WAC make for NT.

FirefightnRick · November 7, 2006

Geez, NT has a head coach that continually puts down the school and has constantly complained about the most difficult circumstances anywhere and some of you think conference affiliation is the problem with recruiting. H*ll, now NT is being outrecruited by their lowly Belt bethern in their backyard.
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Many who attended the ASU game this year told me how obvious it was per they're roster that they had successfully tapped into the metroplex market for talent. Same old song. Much of this is RF's responsiblility and you cannot bring it up to anyone within the program who is not convinced of this.

Rick

chrisfisher · November 7, 2006

I don't know jack about recruiting, but from what I read I'll have to go with blaming the UNT coaches, not the Sun Belt conference. We are D1A football. What about all those good players that sign to D1AA teams? I know several D1AA teams are ahead of us in the current national rankings, but that only demonstrates the available talent. I find it hard to believe that we could not tap into these players or quality JUCO players, in addition to the regular recruits we get from Texas and OK.

Our coaches are going to have to be creative in their recruiting and stop limiting their selection to 2 of 50 states. I recall watching a football game involving a west (or mid-west) coast college football coach (can't recall the team) that makes a living finding diamonds in the rough...players that are overlooked, unsigned, disgruntled, misfits, rejects.... all of them. Even if 1 player from DFW goes to MT or ASU, we have problems. Bottom Line: we suck at recruiting.

Cerebus · November 7, 2006

To the WAC Fans

I do not understand what the infatuation with the WAC is all about. They are not a good fit for us. The only possible way it would have been a good fit would have been to create an eastern division with LaTech and a handful of SBC schools. The WAC refused this. Its a pretty easy decision to make. Another in a long line of good decisions Norval Pohl made.

Arkstatefan is right, if the SBC patch in our jersey is poison to recruits, why are so many other SBC teams cleaning up in the metroplex and all over the state?

If you are tired of BCS co workers making fun of NT for being in the SBC, they don't consider the WAC, MAC, CUSA or even MWC to be and different.

What about all those good players that sign to D1AA teams? I know several D1AA teams are ahead of us in the current national rankings, but that only demonstrates the available talent.
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I know you are a new fan to college football, so here are a couple things you should know. First, some good players slip to 1AA, but the majority of the really good players that are in 1aa instead of 1a are there because the academic standards are more lenient at the 1aa level.

Second, the "current national rankings" you refer to are probably the Sagarin ratings or some derivative of them. There is not enough interplay between 1a and 1aa for the rankings to be statistically relevant enough to compare teams in 1a and 1aa. Jeff Sagarun has admitted this himself. Not to say that all 1a teams are better than 1aa teams by default, several 1aa teams beat 1a teams every year, but you shouldnt read the rankings across the division.

eulesseagle · November 7, 2006

The World Athletic Conference would put the shallow pocketed UNT athletics in a hole every year because:

1. not only would all the men's teams have to travel to BF west coast, including Hawaii but also all the Title IX sports teams.

2. it would be great for the women's volleyball, swim, soccer and tennis teams to travel to Hawaii once a year. If I were a student athelete that would probably sell me.

3. it would be economically infeasable for UNT athletics to survive for very long.

4. you may want to take a look at LaTech sports budget.

I would think if it were not for Hawaii then the travel to the "left coast" would not be as bad as traveling to Florida.

Fortunately, UNT is just about half way between the teams in the WAC and the SBC except for Hawaii.

Is the World Athletic Conference better than the SBC from top to bottom in all sports.........yes.

Is the C-USA better than the SBC from top to bottom in all sports........yes.

Unfortately, until there is another "conference shake-up" UNT is where it is.

Is it frustrating to watch other SBC FB teams out distancing UNT in FB.....yes....look at the latest ratings for MTSU.....#64.

Also remember that NO SBC BB team has EVER made it past the 1st Round of the NCAA BB tournament.

Personally I am looking at a "break out year" for the BB team. IMHO JJ has done a great job in recruiting especially those kids who transfered from Arkansas and Arizona. Do you remember seeing that "tank" sitting on the bench last year?? That guy has to be a great inside force.

foutsrouts · November 7, 2006

You aren't getting it.
Your Sun Belt brethern are going after DFW recruits when they are juniors. UNT would come waltzing in around November of their senior year try to recruit them. Its not about being in the Sun Belt and its not weird exceptions to the rule. UNT doesn't have a clue how well it could recruit in the Sun Belt because UNT ain't doing it.
Only thing the WAC would give you is even greater embarassment. Ever been on a flight with a bunch of 6 ft plus 250 plus football players for hours? It's awful. They don't make seating arrangements to accomodate them. How they stand the flights home is beyond me. Especially when you land in Hawaii after 7 or 8 straight hours in the air and play a game the next day, and you are wheels up 5 hours after the game. Most teams schedule an open date after Hawaii because the travel is so rough.
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I still don't think that YOU'RE getting it. I'm not necessarily pushing for a WAC membership, I just think it should be something for NT (not ASU) to consider if the opportunity presents itself for a FOOTBALL ONLY membership in the near future. I would prefer a comprehensive USA membership or a two division WAC, but that may not be feasible anytime soon.

You sound as if a trip to Hawaii every couple of years is so painful that it should preclude our joining the WAC. I disagree and don't think that the travel in the WAC for FOOTBALL ONLY is all that much more painful (financially and physically) than our current SBC travel. We're only talking a major travel difference of a couple of games a year, and I think that Hawaii would be more of a benefit than a detriment.

And yes, I do think that SBC membership AND our apparently inept coaching staff are hurting our recruiting base both in Texas and beyond. My brother is a high school coach and I've heard negative SBC perceptions first hand from players and coaches on more than one occasion. Also, I'm sure that YOU wouldn't want NT to leave the SBC. We may be down at the moment, but if ASU were the flagship of the conference I wouldn't want you going anywhere either.

UNTLifer · November 7, 2006

I still don't think that YOU'RE getting it. I'm not necessarily pushing for a WAC membership, I just think it should be something for NT (not ASU) to consider if the opportunity presents itself for a FOOTBALL ONLY membership in the near future. I would prefer a comprehensive USA membership or a two division WAC, but that may not be feasible anytime soon.
You sound as if a trip to Hawaii every couple of years is so painful that it should preclude our joining the WAC. I disagree and don't think that the travel in the WAC for FOOTBALL ONLY is all that much more painful (financially and physically) than our current SBC travel. We're only talking a major travel difference of a couple of games a year, and I think that Hawaii would be more of a benefit than a detriment.
And yes, I do think that SBC membership AND our apparently inept coaching staff are hurting our recruiting base both in Texas and beyond. My brother is a high school coach and I've heard negative SBC perceptions first hand from players and coaches on more than one occasion. Also, I'm sure that YOU wouldn't want NT to leave the SBC. We may be down at the moment, but if ASU were the flagship of the conference I wouldn't want you going anywhere either.
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apparently inept coaching staff are hurting our recruiting base both in Texas and beyond.

This you get, the rest? Well we tried.

Shof · November 7, 2006

I still don't think that YOU'RE getting it. I'm not necessarily pushing for a WAC membership, I just think it should be something for NT (not ASU) to consider if the opportunity presents itself for a FOOTBALL ONLY membership in the near future. I would prefer a comprehensive USA membership or a two division WAC, but that may not be feasible anytime soon.
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OK, so if NT were in the WAC for "Football Only", where would the other sports reside? It wouldn't be in the SBC! Conference by-laws wouldn't allow for that (I believe).

El Paso Eagle · November 7, 2006

OK, so if NT were in the WAC for "Football Only", where would the other sports reside? It wouldn't be in the SBC! Conference by-laws wouldn't allow for that (I believe).
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Denver?

Ark LR?

VideoEagle · November 7, 2006

Denver?
Ark LR?
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They don’t play football. And, the WAC conference by-laws don’t allow football only schools either.

Let’s just not go WACy.

Spaceraider · November 7, 2006

OK, so if NT were in the WAC for "Football Only", where would the other sports reside? It wouldn't be in the SBC! Conference by-laws wouldn't allow for that (I believe).
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North Texas would have to find a home for its other sports. If the conference sponsors the sport, the members must compete in the conference. When wku does move to 1A football it will be in the Sun Belt...otherwise they must leave the conference.

TIgreen01 · November 7, 2006

Let me just say that this topic started out decently, but has quickly hit the crapper. To all the lurkers out there....please do not believe, for even a second, that UNT doesn't value membership in the Sun Belt. It is the absolute best place for us....esp. when we were running roughshod through it.

To those who think we should jump to the wac....wtf?! I guess it only takes a few years to forget the Big West. I don't remember hearing ANY dissenting opinions when we left the Big West. The wac now is the big west of old, plus Fresno and Hawaii. Whoopee doo.

Quoner · November 7, 2006

Let me just say that this topic started out decently, but has quickly hit the crapper. To all the lurkers out there....please do not believe, for even a second, that UNT doesn't value membership in the Sun Belt. It is the absolute best place for us....esp. when we were running roughshod through it.
To those who think we should jump to the wac....wtf?! I guess it only takes a few years to forget the Big West. I don't remember hearing ANY dissenting opinions when we left the Big West. The wac now is the big west of old, plus Fresno and Hawaii. Whoopee doo.
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Obviously you don't remember 2002 and 2003 when we were kicking everyone's ass conference and non-conference alike, just begging to be moved up game after game. WAC - hell, we should have been in the Big 12 after we crushed Baylor once. That was a team - a team that obviously deserved a better conference. We just prove year after year its our CONFERENCE that is holding us back. The Sun Belt runs a crappy, predictable offense that everyone has figured out how to stop in their sleep. The Sun Belt also supports mediocrity at every turn.

Will anyone laugh when this conference becomes too good for us? Its not now, but a few more years of this crap and who knows. Bam, we're Idaho. Well Idaho can win three games so I'm really screwed here.

Here's a thought, if we played in any other conference for the past two years, we'd have won ONE game! But what a game it was.

Just once more this year I'd like to have a reason to sport my namesake around town. Just one more freakin' time!

LongJim · November 7, 2006

WAC membership = Cluster.

TIgreen01 · November 7, 2006

Obviously you don't remember 2002 and 2003 when we were kicking everyone's ass conference and non-conference alike, just begging to be moved up game after game. WAC - hell, we should have been in the Big 12 after we crushed Baylor once. That was a team - a team that obviously deserved a better conference. We just prove year after year its our CONFERENCE that is holding us back. The Sun Belt runs a crappy, predictable offense that everyone has figured out how to stop in their sleep. The Sun Belt also supports mediocrity at every turn.
Will anyone laugh when this conference becomes too good for us? Its not now, but a few more years of this crap and who knows. Bam, we're Idaho. Well Idaho can win three games so I'm really screwed here.
Here's a thought, if we played in any other conference for the past two years, we'd have won ONE game! But what a game it was.
Just once more this year I'd like to have a reason to sport my namesake around town. Just one more freakin' time!
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Oh, hell yes, I remember the BU stomping. I also remember the subsequent article (from I wanna say Kevin Sherrington?) to the tune of 'Big 12 Needs a Meaner Shade of Green'.....then I remember EA changing NCAA to allow for teams to jump conference after one good year. I did it....replaced TTech in the Big 12 after going 11-1. Those were the days....

Edited November 7, 2006 by TIgreen01

Quoner · November 7, 2006

Oh, hell yes, I remember the BU stomping. I also remember the subsequent article (from I wanna say Kevin Sherrington?) to the tune of 'Big 12 Needs a Meaner Shade of Green'.....then I remember EA changing NCAA to allow for teams to jump conference after one good year. I did it....replaced TTech in the Big 12 after going 11-1. Those were the days....
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It took 3 years in NCAA 2004 to build into a power - then you just got 4 and 5 star recruits, scheduled the top 4 or 5 teams out of conference and went to town. I remember averaging 90 pts a game and allowing 5 a game. It was glorious.

TIgreen01 · November 7, 2006

It took 3 years in NCAA 2004 to build into a power - then you just got 4 and 5 star recruits, scheduled the top 4 or 5 teams out of conference and went to town. I remember averaging 90 pts a game and allowing 5 a game. It was glorious.
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Thread? Hijacked.