STOP!

BIG DAWG · October 31, 2006

There is no point in discussing Dickey getting fired because we do not have the money to cut ties with him and hire any coach that would be worth hiring at the same time.

QUIT WASTING YOUR TIME POSTING ABOUT THIS TOPIC!

No matter how you argue the point, it isn't possible to come up with that kind of money.

You would have to give Dickey somewhere in the ballpark of $800K to buyout his final two years, and then pay a quality replacement at least an equal amount of $400K per year.

That is $1,200,000 we would have to shell out in coaches salary in 2007, just to our head coaches past and present.

OVER 1 MILLION DOLLARS!

This WILL NOT happen at NT. There just isn't that kind of money floating around to do that.

BEST CASE SCENARIO IS THAT WE GET A NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR THAT DICKEY WILL ALLOW TO RUN THE OFFENSE WITHOUT HIS OVERSIGHT, AT LEAST IN PLAY CALLING.

Lets put this dead horse topic to bed...PLEASE! It isn't worth anymore breath or effort.

Dickey will be back for one more year IF NOT TWO MORE YEARS!

e-bone ver2.awesome · October 31, 2006

If UNT were to fire Dickey and hire a coach that gets the fanbase excited, wouldn't it be expected that people who donate would strongly consider increasing their donations, people who don't donate but are fans would strongly consider donating or buying season tickets, and more borderline fans would want to come to the games to see what the big deal was with this new, exciting coach? Has UTEP and even Utah State seen increased donations and revenues?

That said, a Southern Miss coordinator or the like is not the kind of person who would inspire such excitement.

But all of that aside, what it comes down to is that UNT can not afford to keep Dickey. The damage being done to the program and how people view the program is hard to put a dollar value on, but it is very real and extremely important. More important than a 1 year hit in pocket book.

KingDL1 · October 31, 2006

Do you all realize that is not how things work, UNT and DD will work out a mutually beneficial agreement where DD will get to resign and the school pays him some fraction of what is left on his contract. DD can get his health under control and find a job somewhere else. In the end it is usually better to save face than to fight tooth and nail to show what an ass you are. Meaning if DD tries to fight the school no other school would ever hire him.

Not to mention that the school could work several angles at this point if they wanted to, from a termination such as non-performance based on the belief that DD is not healthy enough to run the program to failure follow guidelines.

People don't kid yourselves UNT has plenty of options.

UNTBill · October 31, 2006

There is no point in discussing Dickey getting fired because we do not have the money to cut ties with him and hire any coach that would be worth hiring at the same time.
QUIT WASTING YOUR TIME POSTING ABOUT THIS TOPIC!
No matter how you argue the point, it isn't possible to come up with that kind of money.
You would have to give Dickey somewhere in the ballpark of $800K to buyout his final two years, and then pay a quality replacement at least an equal amount of $400K per year.
That is $1,200,000 we would have to shell out in coaches salary in 2007, just to our head coaches past and present.
OVER 1 MILLION DOLLARS!
This WILL NOT happen at NT. There just isn't that kind of money floating around to do that.
BEST CASE SCENARIO IS THAT WE GET A NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR THAT DICKEY WILL ALLOW TO RUN THE OFFENSE WITHOUT HIS OVERSIGHT, AT LEAST IN PLAY CALLING.
Lets put this dead horse topic to bed...PLEASE! It isn't worth anymore breath or effort.
Dickey will be back for one more year IF NOT TWO MORE YEARS!
←

OK. I'll bite. Not a bad idea. I really wouldn't mind if UNT retained DD and hired a really, really, really good OC, one that had total and complete control over the offense. But, I really don't see that happening. Aside from that, I think that DD's buyout is about $400,000.00. Then again, that doesn't really matter. If the student activity fee was raised by $100.00 x 32,000 students that would equal $3,200,000.00.

Maybe, just raise the activity fee by $50.00 per year (to help the finacially challenge parents) and bingo UNT can do whatever it wants with respect to athletics.

PlummMeanGreen · October 31, 2006

Do you all realize that is not how things work, UNT and DD will work out a mutually beneficial agreement where DD will get to resign and the school pays him some fraction of what is left on his contract. DD can get his health under control and find a job somewhere else. In the end it is usually better to save face than to fight tooth and nail to show what an ass you are. Meaning if DD tries to fight the school no other school would ever hire him.
Not to mention that the school could work several angles at this point if they wanted to, from a termination such as non-performance based on the belief that DD is not healthy enough to run the program to failure follow guidelines.
People don't kid yourselves UNT has plenty of options.
←

This is the same thing I've been hearing, KingDL1...

To help us fund ourselves out of all these extended contracts that have us in a financial pickle (thanks to Bobby & His Gang's approval), maybe our money guarantee games need to be larger n the future than schools like UT-Austin seems to have been paying us of late?

Someone told me they heard Auburn (and others similar) pay out anywhere from $700K to $800K per game for their guarantees. Couldn't UNT have used the extra $500K this year?

Yet we get anywhere from $300K to $400K from U of Texas-Austin? With our present staff's attitude with OOC games, would there have been much difference with the results on the scoreboard whether we had played Auburn or UT the last few years?

This whole thing is one big fat me$$ and there are those who need to answer for getting us in this mess.

MeanMag · October 31, 2006

These are my thoughts exactly. I don't know how long it's been since some of you have seen a student's bill, but they really are already nickel and diming. Everytime the program wants a new coach, do we then raise the fees another 100 dollars? To me, it's a pretty slippery slope and going to the well too many times will lead to a decline in support.

If fees were to be raised another $100 I would rather see the money spent on a new stadium, than seeing Dickey get out of here 1 or 2 years earlier than contracted. Just a much bigger payoff with new facilities IMO.

GrandGreen · October 31, 2006

There is no point in discussing Dickey getting fired because we do not have the money to cut ties with him and hire any coach that would be worth hiring at the same time.
QUIT WASTING YOUR TIME POSTING ABOUT THIS TOPIC!
No matter how you argue the point, it isn't possible to come up with that kind of money.
You would have to give Dickey somewhere in the ballpark of $800K to buyout his final two years, and then pay a quality replacement at least an equal amount of $400K per year.
That is $1,200,000 we would have to shell out in coaches salary in 2007, just to our head coaches past and present.
OVER 1 MILLION DOLLARS!
This WILL NOT happen at NT. There just isn't that kind of money floating around to do that.
BEST CASE SCENARIO IS THAT WE GET A NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR THAT DICKEY WILL ALLOW TO RUN THE OFFENSE WITHOUT HIS OVERSIGHT, AT LEAST IN PLAY CALLING.
Lets put this dead horse topic to bed...PLEASE! It isn't worth anymore breath or effort.
Dickey will be back for one more year IF NOT TWO MORE YEARS!
←

Byout closer to $400K total per contract and I think you can get a pretty good coach for what we are paying DD. So your cost is at max $400K not accounting for lost revenue if DD stays and increased revenue if DD is replaced.

UNTBill · October 31, 2006

These are my thoughts exactly. I don't know how long it's been since some of you have seen a student's bill, but they really are already nickel and diming. Everytime the program wants a new coach, do we then raise the fees another 100 dollars? To me, it's a pretty slippery slope and going to the well too many times will lead to a decline in support.
If fees were to be raised another $100 I would rather see the money spent on a new stadium, than seeing Dickey get out of here 1 or 2 years earlier than contracted. Just a much bigger payoff with new facilities IMO.
←

Notice the last line of my post, "UNT can do what ever it wants with respect to athletics"

chrisfisher · October 31, 2006

The BIG underlying assumption of the argument to let DD go is that we will get a better HC. Based on what I've read at GMG, I am skeptical that UNT would go after a name HC, OC, or DC. The combination of DD with a new offensive coordinator and offensive line coach may be our best (or most realistic) option. Fred Bleil is probably a keeper b/c our defense (despite their low national ranking) is performing good to great given the sorry circumstances the offense puts them in week after week.

And no, I am not a huge DD fan. I came to UNT with the dream of attending a D1A football school that was exciting and competitive. I enrolled in 2005... enough said about my "exciting and competitive" experience. So, I rely on hanging out with my 9 year old daughter at the football games to keep it fun.

Got5onIt · October 31, 2006

The BIG underlying assumption of the argument to let DD go is that we will get a better HC. Based on what I've read at GMG, I am skeptical that UNT would go after a name HC, OC, or DC. The combination of DD with a new offensive coordinator and offensive line coach may be our best (or most realistic) option. Fred Bleil is probably a keeper b/c our defense (despite their low national ranking) is performing good to great given the sorry circumstances the offense puts them in week after week.
And no, I am not a huge DD fan. I came to UNT with the dream of attending a D1A football school that was exciting and competitive. I enrolled in 2005... enough said about my "exciting and competitive" experience. So, I rely on hanging out with my 9 year old daughter at the football games to keep it fun.
←

Hang in there Chris!!

It's nice to see new fans come into the Mean Green circle. This university owes it to you to put a good product on the field. Let's hope they do something soon.

The sad thing is I want to see more chrisfisher's enter this board, but we just don't get many. Anyone want to guess why?

GrandGreen · October 31, 2006

The BIG underlying assumption of the argument to let DD go is that we will get a better HC. Based on what I've read at GMG, I am skeptical that UNT would go after a name HC, OC, or DC. The combination of DD with a new offensive coordinator and offensive line coach may be our best (or most realistic) option. Fred Bleil is probably a keeper b/c our defense (despite their low national ranking) is performing good to great given the sorry circumstances the offense puts them in week after week.
And no, I am not a huge DD fan. I came to UNT with the dream of attending a D1A football school that was exciting and competitive. I enrolled in 2005... enough said about my "exciting and competitive" experience. So, I rely on hanging out with my 9 year old daughter at the football games to keep it fun.
←

I really do not understand the logic that NT can't get a better coach than DD because of pay. DD was hired for under $100K base salary, and is paid approximately twice that now. If I remember correctly DD could make over $500K if he met all his incentives.

There are only 119 1a coaching positions available and thousands of coaches who would love to get a shot. You are correct that NT or any other lower tier football school is not going to get a "name coach" that is not damaged goods. By the way the great Hayden Fry was not exactly a hot commodity when NT got him. He had just got fired at SMU and my guess is that he did not take the NT job because he had a lot of choices.

I think many will be suprised at the quality and quanity of coaches that will be attracted to NT even without improving on the current DD contract. This is assuming that an actual full blown search is undertaken.

Edited October 31, 2006 by GrandGreen

NT80 · October 31, 2006

Byout closer to $400K total per contract and I think you can get a pretty good coach for what we are paying DD. So your cost is at max $400K not accounting for lost revenue if DD stays and increased revenue if DD is replaced.
←

First, if DD stays on the payroll just move him to another job, then hire a real coach.

Next, if all the DD-lovers are worried about $$ think about this:

25,000 fans at SMUt game vs. 15,000 at FIU/Homecoming game = loss of 10,000 fans. Those 10,000 fans would have spent a minimum $10/fan for ticket/parking/concessions = minimum $100,000 lost revenue, probably more.

Point: You are not saving $$ by keeping DD; DD is costing the school $$ by losing and turning off fans.

BIG DAWG · October 31, 2006

If UNT were to fire Dickey and hire a coach that gets the fanbase excited, wouldn't it be expected that people who donate would strongly consider increasing their donations, people who don't donate but are fans would strongly consider donating or buying season tickets, and more borderline fans would want to come to the games to see what the big deal was with this new, exciting coach? Has UTEP and even Utah State seen increased donations and revenues?

Can't make huge financial decisions based on speculation

Eagle1855 · October 31, 2006

There is no point in discussing Dickey getting fired because we do not have the money to cut ties with him and hire any coach that would be worth hiring at the same time.
QUIT WASTING YOUR TIME POSTING ABOUT THIS TOPIC!
No matter how you argue the point, it isn't possible to come up with that kind of money.
You would have to give Dickey somewhere in the ballpark of $800K to buyout his final two years, and then pay a quality replacement at least an equal amount of $400K per year.
That is $1,200,000 we would have to shell out in coaches salary in 2007, just to our head coaches past and present.
OVER 1 MILLION DOLLARS!
This WILL NOT happen at NT. There just isn't that kind of money floating around to do that.
BEST CASE SCENARIO IS THAT WE GET A NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR THAT DICKEY WILL ALLOW TO RUN THE OFFENSE WITHOUT HIS OVERSIGHT, AT LEAST IN PLAY CALLING.
Lets put this dead horse topic to bed...PLEASE! It isn't worth anymore breath or effort.
Dickey will be back for one more year IF NOT TWO MORE YEARS!
←

I think you are 100% wrong, but time will tell.

In my opinion, UNT cant afford to keep Dickey.

e-bone ver2.awesome · October 31, 2006

Can't make huge financial decisions based on speculation
←

So I take it you have some concrete numbers on how much over the years the program will lose in donations, ticket sales, concessions, parking, merchandise, etc... if the program continues the way it is with DD at the helm? You don't need to be speculating, you know.

rcade · October 31, 2006

You would have to give Dickey somewhere in the ballpark of $800K to buyout his final two years, and then pay a quality replacement at least an equal amount of $400K per year.
←

How can you assume that Dickey would insist on a full buyout? He'd be leaving UNT with a whimper and would be contractually obligated not to coach anywhere else during that period. I think UNT would have some leverage, should they decide to go another direction and dump Dickey after the season.

October 31, 2006

You would have to give Dickey somewhere in the ballpark of $800K to buyout his final two years, and then pay a quality replacement at least an equal amount of $400K per year.
←

I am no math genius but if his contract is as its purported to be, the two year buyout would be around $360,000. There is also a clause about a percentage of the remaining contract and a mention of $250,000.

The contract called for a base salary of $155,000 retroactive to 2003 with 5% increases per year. That should mean his base salary is in the neighborhood of $180,000 in 2006. The rest is all incentives...annuity, car allowance, staying in 1-A, conference championships, bowl wins, etc. If he's gone he would not be eligible for any of those. I'd be terribly surprised if Dickey has earned more than $300,000 in any year.

And, no, you probably couldn't get a big name coach for less than $400,000 but an up-and-coming coach such as a Matthews or Carthel might be signed for approximately the value of Dickey's contract.

SilverEagle · October 31, 2006

And, no, you probably couldn't get a big name coach for less than $400,000 but an up-and-coming coach such as a Matthews or Carthel might be signed for approximately the value of Dickey's contract.
←

The last time we signed a "name" coach was Hayden Fry. It has been pointed out that we got him because we payed him two salaries AD & HC.

In order to do something similar again, we would have to fire RV and give Hank Dickinson more administrative duties....including fund-raising....and take him out of the booth.

Now, if we were going to do something like that, then I would advocate firing both RV and Hank, pay some promising radio/tv intern to do the color commentary with GD, and then hire Jim Hobdy to be the athletic director.

....or (I like this better), keep RV, fire Hank Dickinson, hire the aforementioned intern, and then hire Jim Hobdy to be assistant AD in charge of promotions and fund raising. With Jim, we would get much more bang for our buck as far as promotions and fund raising goes.

OR, we can learn the lessons of having Hayden Fry as our coach and hire an up-and-coming coach just like him, for a bargain price. You know, someone with a lot of fire, people skills, and someone who is not afraid of sending out a long bomb pass play to the QB, when we are back up on our own one yard line.

This coach will quickly be hired away from us. But if we are smart, (past history says that that is a big IF) we will already have his replacement in mind, and insert the "next Hayden Fry-type" coach into the position and keep going.

We could even make money on this. We could build in a very profitable buy-out clause for the school, so that the University will have more money to offer the next up-and-coming "Hayden Fry".

PlummMeanGreen · October 31, 2006

SOME WHAT IF'S..............

First of all, I've never seen a time that UNT officials could not come up with the neccessary monies if they really saw the need to fund someone or to fund some project. After all, we did have some monies that suddenly became available to finsih out the Athletic Center; albeit monies that had to be paid back as I recall. ANd.......I think one could easily find anywhere from $200K-$300K additional funds today by tweaking the present UNT Athletic Dept. payroll and by simply ridding ourselves of some un-needed deadwood. For a bottom-feeding NCAA D1-A athletic program, we sure seem to be top-heavy with a very large staff.

SPEAKING OF DEADWOOD.............Deadwood that could be eventually be replaced in due time because a high profile name football coach who might come to Denton would have (because of his presence alone) created for a "very hungry for higher profile" constituency (that mainly being all of us) to start having record-breaking season ticket sales and per home game averages at Fouts Field which would sky-rocket because of all the new interests of which I believe UTEP officials (and maybe those from Idaho) would substantiate that all this can really happen because they've experienced it first-hand.

And FWIW............there would ultimately "NOT" be a shortage of those newly created openings on staff because they would eventually be filled again (if necessary) because the UNT athletic department would suddenly have new monies never before available to have flexibility with its budget with all this coming from dramatically expanded football season ticket sales as well as record-breaking Fouts Field gate receipts

Who knows, this all might be just too easy for it to ever materialize in Denton. After all, we would like to make rocket science out of all that has us presently feeding from the bottom of NCAA D1-A in most every varsity sport we are fielding in Denton, Texas, America. Shouldn't we be open to trying something different than what we've been doing in that regard? And fellow alums, we have been way too gullible to accept just about anything dished down to us. :rolleyes:

Second of all, this is also not the time to start "brother-in-law'in" your favorite UNT employee in the present UNT Dept. Look at the following as a possible way to measure what their success or non-successes have been; that is, if we want to continue with those who have (in essence) played a part OR have been part of a very unsuccessful athletic program using...................W/L records and annual attendance figures (that all the Associate AD's in the UNT athletic dept. have as much to do with its success or lack thereof as anyone AND..............quite frankly, what else is there to use to measure the fruits of all their labor than the aforementioned)? Being good tax-paying citizens in Denton who attend church every Sunday are all nice but none of that will not be near enough as to what we really need in MEAN GREEN COUNTRY, folks.

There is no mandate that says we of UNT have to keep those on our payrolls just because they've been at UNT for a few year, either. Hellsbells, crap fire and save the matches, UNT had even elected a P.E. teacher and had him inducted into the NT Athletic Hall of Fame years ago and this was a "re-assignment) who was no where near a .500 W/L record when he coached varsity basketball in Denton. Who on this board coined the phrase I now use...............Only at North Texas?

Another barometer we might also use at UNT would be: If they have created such a reputation as a real bonafide mover and shaker in the UNT Athletic Dept, then why aren't other larger (or even smaller) schools knocking down their doors to try to hire some of these who some of you have crowned cream of the crop types as to hire them away from us already?

I don't think we should mix too much of the old philosophy (that comes from multi-year UNT employees) with our upcoming new philosophies (and hires) because doing that may cause many of these future new hires to catch (what some of us have called for years the Denton Malaise) and start thinking and acting mediocre very quickly.

I know it probably can't be done en mass at a state university, but UNT needs to start slowly culling out the old guard as to allow the new guard to come in and try to turn around 180 degrees what their predeccessors could not turn around with way too many years to try.

Once worked at a technical school where the previous and entire sales force had been fired across the board because they (collectively and across the board) were all doing a poor job.

So as far as Mean Green athletics is concerned, why taint all of the upcoming new hirings we will eventually get with all of the old guard with their old set ways & attitudes that have not been successful as to bring in a significant number of new fans (along with what could be all those new fan's donation$)?

We just need to start running this thing at UNT like the entertaiment business that it actually is FWIW..................and IMHO.

Edited October 31, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen