I only wish every business ran like this

[emmitt01]

Can you imagine what it would be like if every business had the fan 'loyalty' that some on this board expect? McDonald's starts serving uncooked burgers and publicly bashing their customers and the proper response would be? Oh yes, continue to buy extra value meals and NEVER threaten to be "done" going to McDonald's because that would only show you to be a quitter. Hilton Hotels leaves dirty sheets on all of the beds? Hey, just think of all the clean comfy rooms that Hilton provided several years ago. Can't read this post because your internet provider keeps screwing up your connection? Don't you dare do anything to voice displeasure because that would only make the employees of these companies sad.

Look, I know that NT is not a corporation but the same principles apply. NT athletics asks us every year to pony up our time, our money and our passion. Yes, we are all alumni or have close ties to the school. But how do we serve our university by continuing to put our full efforts into a losing program? Anyone ever heard of a thing called 'tacit consent?' Wanna knock me, or others, for saying we're 'done'? Then get a little perspective before you cast aspersions. What does it take to make someone who lives and breathes NT, who has defended this team to everyone from apathetic NT students to the bandwagon jumping lemings statewide walk away? How do you turn someone off to NT football when their entire social calendar for the year revolves around it? Oh yeah, you run a boring, abrasive to potential fans, floundering program. Show in your speech in actions that you couldn't care less about selling this team because the 'us against them' mentality is your only motivational tactic. And if you want to knock people like me who say we're bowing out (though admittedly I probably couldn't keep myself away if I tried) make sure you take into account the THOUSANDS of fans who won't be lining up to replace us because the product is so badly mismanaged and sold. Grow accustomed to 17,000 being a generous estimate for attendance for the next decade and beyond because there is not a salesman in the world who could entice people who don't have a vested interest in this program to jump on board.

And as to this notion that it is our job as fans to just show up, support the team, and keep our mouths shut...are you f'ing kidding?! What message is sent to RV, the coaching staff and the general public? North Texas wins...fans are happy. North Texas loses (in embarrasing fashion)...fans put on a happy face. To the casual observer you would like for there to be no difference in demeanor or speech between a happy fanbase and a disillusioned one? Brilliant! I just can't wait to check into a Hilton hotel...maybe when I go to the N.O. Bowl to wach someone other than NT.

Edited October 30, 2006 by emmitt01

[MeanMag]

Can you imagine what it would be like if every business had the fan 'loyalty' that some on this board expect?  McDonald's starts serving uncooked burgers and publicly bashing their customers and the proper response would be?  Oh yes, continue to buy extra value meals and NEVER threaten to be "done" going to McDonald's because that would only show you to be a quitter.  Hilton Hotels leaves dirty sheets on all of the beds?  Hey, just think of all the clean comfy rooms that Hilton provided several years ago.  Can't read this post because your internet provider keeps screwing up your connection?  Don't you dare do anything to voice displeasure because that would only make the employees of these companies sad. 

Look, I know that NT is not a corporation but the same principles apply.  NT athletics asks us every year to pony up our time, our money and our passion.  Yes, we are all alumni or have close ties to the school.  But how do we serve our university by continuing to put our full efforts into a losing program?  Anyone ever heard of a thing called 'tacit consent?'  Wanna knock me, or others, for saying we're 'done'?  Then get a little perspective before you cast aspersions.  What does it take to make someone who lives and breathes NT, who has defended this team to everyone from apathetic NT students to the bandwagon jumping lemings statewide walk away?  How do you turn someone off to NT football when their entire social calendar for the year revolves around it?  Oh yeah, you run a boring, abrasive to potential fans, floundering program.  Show in your speech in actions that you couldn't care less about selling this team because the 'us against them' mentality is your only motivational tactic.  And if you want to knock people like me who say we're bowing out (though admittedly I probably couldn't keep myself away if I tried) make sure you take into account the THOUSANDS of fans who won't be lining up to replace us because the product is so badly mismanaged and sold.  Grow accustomed to 17,000 being a generous estimate for attendance for the next decade and beyond because there is not a salesman in the world who could entice people who don't have a vested interest in this program to jump on board. 

And as to this notion that it is our job as fans to just show up, support the team, and keep our mouths shut...are you f'ing kidding?!  What message is sent to RV, the coaching staff and the general public?  North Texas wins...fans are happy.  North Texas loses (in embarrasing fashion)...fans put on a happy face.  To the casual observer you would like for there to be no difference in demeanor or speech between a happy fanbase and a disillusioned one?  Brilliant!  I just can't wait to check into a Hilton hotel...maybe when I go to the N.O. Bowl to wach someone other than NT.

←

Well, I think this analogy is not only tired and worn, but comparing this academic institution's football program to a corporation doesn't make any sense.

I understand your displeasure with the way things are going, but companies don't sit around and hope people give them money. Maybe if we treated football at UNT like all the other major schools do (as a profit center), we can compare corporations to our football program. As of right now, however, there is no vision and want to build NT into a football corporation and we are lacking investors. The biggest investor of all: The School Itself- The board of reagents. We could build the new stadium if we really wanted to. Companies go out and make things happen, or they collapse (even if they sit idle).

Until then, I will sit back and enjoy the small time atmosphere at UNT to the best of my ability. Maybe we will get another lucky recruiting class sometime soon.

[Quoner]

Well, I think this analogy is not only tired and worn, but comparing this academic institution's football program to a corporation doesn't make any sense.

I understand your displeasure with the way things are going, but companies don't sit around and hope people give them money.  Maybe if we treated football at UNT like all the other major schools do (as a profit center), we can compare corporations to our football program.  As of right now, however, there is no vision and want to build NT into a football corporation and we are lacking investors.  The biggest investor of all: The School Itself- The board of reagents.  We could build the new stadium if we really wanted to.  Companies go out and make things happen, or they collapse (even if they sit idle).

Until then, I will sit back and enjoy the small time atmosphere at UNT to the best of my ability.  Maybe we will get another lucky recruiting class sometime soon.

←

Actually, only about 25-30 programs make money off athletics. They treat it more as a way to come close to breaking even and a great outlet for PR and branding.

Speaking of the Sun Belt, except that we weren't, this is an interesting site that discusses that topic:

http://thesportseconomist.com/archive/2006...197589793303519

Check out the Indianapolis Star database at the end.

[MeanMag]

Actually, only about 25-30 programs make money off athletics. They treat it more as a way to come close to breaking even and a great outlet for PR and branding.

Speaking of the Sun Belt, except that we weren't, this is an interesting site that discusses that topic:

http://thesportseconomist.com/archive/2006...197589793303519

Check out the Indianapolis Star database at the end.

←

Good read. I would imagine that the 25-30 programs making money off athletics are the ones we would want to emulate. So, it is my opinion that until we get there, we should not draw comparisons between companies and our schools athletics.

[CMJ]

The MeanGreen club supports all of our athletes, not just the football team. Get fed up with the FB team, don't buy season tickets. But the athletes need all the support they can get from those that can afford it.

[claiblaw]

Can you imagine what it would be like if every business had the fan 'loyalty' that some on this board expect?  McDonald's starts serving uncooked burgers and publicly bashing their customers and the proper response would be?  Oh yes, continue to buy extra value meals and NEVER threaten to be "done" going to McDonald's because that would only show you to be a quitter.  Hilton Hotels leaves dirty sheets on all of the beds?  Hey, just think of all the clean comfy rooms that Hilton provided several years ago.  Can't read this post because your internet provider keeps screwing up your connection?  Don't you dare do anything to voice displeasure because that would only make the employees of these companies sad. 

Look, I know that NT is not a corporation but the same principles apply.  NT athletics asks us every year to pony up our time, our money and our passion.  Yes, we are all alumni or have close ties to the school.  But how do we serve our university by continuing to put our full efforts into a losing program?  Anyone ever heard of a thing called 'tacit consent?'  Wanna knock me, or others, for saying we're 'done'?  Then get a little perspective before you cast aspersions.  What does it take to make someone who lives and breathes NT, who has defended this team to everyone from apathetic NT students to the bandwagon jumping lemings statewide walk away?  How do you turn someone off to NT football when their entire social calendar for the year revolves around it?  Oh yeah, you run a boring, abrasive to potential fans, floundering program.  Show in your speech in actions that you couldn't care less about selling this team because the 'us against them' mentality is your only motivational tactic.  And if you want to knock people like me who say we're bowing out (though admittedly I probably couldn't keep myself away if I tried) make sure you take into account the THOUSANDS of fans who won't be lining up to replace us because the product is so badly mismanaged and sold.  Grow accustomed to 17,000 being a generous estimate for attendance for the next decade and beyond because there is not a salesman in the world who could entice people who don't have a vested interest in this program to jump on board. 

And as to this notion that it is our job as fans to just show up, support the team, and keep our mouths shut...are you f'ing kidding?!  What message is sent to RV, the coaching staff and the general public?  North Texas wins...fans are happy.  North Texas loses (in embarrasing fashion)...fans put on a happy face.  To the casual observer you would like for there to be no difference in demeanor or speech between a happy fanbase and a disillusioned one?  Brilliant!  I just can't wait to check into a Hilton hotel...maybe when I go to the N.O. Bowl to wach someone other than NT.

←

[El Paso Eagle]

Until then, I will sit back and enjoy the small time atmosphere at UNT to the best of my ability.  Maybe we will get another lucky recruiting class sometime soon.

←

Let's see.... Emmitt is "bad" for "expecting" performance

AND YOU’RE hoping

"Maybe we will get another lucky recruiting class sometime soon"

Sorry, but the most overused excuse is that you should not be able to hold programs accountable. And yes only a small amount of programs make money, but Football is the money maker and you would hope the Administration would want to maximize its product. But then again maybe their thinking if we can get the same 15K to show up regardless of our investment WHY invest????

[Got5onIt]

The MeanGreen club supports all of our athletes, not just the football team.  Get fed up with the FB team, don't buy season tickets.  But the athletes need all the support they can get from those that can afford it.

←

Like it or not, Football pays for other sports. When your "cashcow" fails the rest of university athletics feels the hit.

[emmitt01]

Well, I think this analogy is not only tired and worn, but comparing this academic institution's football program to a corporation doesn't make any sense.

I understand your displeasure with the way things are going, but companies don't sit around and hope people give them money.  Maybe if we treated football at UNT like all the other major schools do (as a profit center), we can compare corporations to our football program.  As of right now, however, there is no vision and want to build NT into a football corporation and we are lacking investors.  The biggest investor of all: The School Itself- The board of reagents.  We could build the new stadium if we really wanted to.  Companies go out and make things happen, or they collapse (even if they sit idle).

Until then, I will sit back and enjoy the small time atmosphere at UNT to the best of my ability.  Maybe we will get another lucky recruiting class sometime soon.

←

Brilliant retort. Aside from casting aside the point of what I was saying, and instead choosing to concentrate on an analogy, you were spot on in your analysis. Oh, and also discounting the fact that I came right out and said "I know NT is not a corporation" you pretty much, in a roundabout way, not really, replied to the original post.

And as to the idea of "investors" we will have few if any under the current state of things.

[CMJ]

Like it or not, Football pays for other sports. When your "cashcow" fails the rest of university athletics feels the hit.

←

Looking thru those stats from the Indy Star, many schools seem to lose money on football too.

[MeanMag]

Brilliant retort.  Aside from casting aside the point of what I was saying, and instead choosing to concentrate on an analogy, you were spot on in your analysis.  Oh, and also discounting the fact that I came right out and said "I know NT is not a corporation" you pretty much, in a roundabout way, not really, replied to the original post. 

And as to the idea of "investors" we will have few if any under the current state of things.

←

I wasn't trying to retort your point. I was trying to point out a flaw in comparing our school to a corporation. I know you said, "I know NT is not a corporation", but if you know that, why the comparison?

Sports fans and customers, in my opinion are completely different. Sports fans are emotionally tied to teams and depending on whether the team is doing well or not an emotion is tied to that. Sports fans keep coming back, because there is something more than just entertainment, goods, or services being provided to the fan.

The expectation placed on business by customers is that of getting what you paid for.

I don't care what sports team you are watching, but depending on what your definition of getting your money's worth is, it can be a rollercoaster ride. So, every fan has to ask themself why they keep coming back if they value the price of their ticket based on a win or loss.

In my eyes, the value and determinant on whether or not I go to games is if I have fun. The game and team can completely suck, and I might still have fun at the game. It would be even more fun to get a win, and fans have every right to complain if they don't.

The way I choose to enjoy an NT game these days, is the same way I enjoy a Rangers' game. I realize how emotionally and physically devoted some of you are to NT football, but I have to admit maybe I'm a worse fan for not caring very much. But at times like this, I am glad that I care enough to be upset that we suck, and not enough to make claims like, "I'm done, I'll never go to another game again."

[UNTBill]

I wasn't trying to retort your point.  I was trying to point out a flaw in comparing our school to a corporation.  I know you said, "I know NT is not a corporation", but if you know that, why the comparison?

Sports fans and customers, in my opinion are completely different.  Sports fans are emotionally tied to teams and depending on whether the team is doing well or not an emotion is tied to that.  Sports fans keep coming back, because there is something more than just entertainment, goods, or services being provided to the fan.

The expectation placed on business by customers is that of getting what you paid for. 

I don't care what sports team you are watching, but depending on what your definition of getting your money's worth is, it can be a rollercoaster ride.  So, every fan has to ask themself why they keep coming back if they value the price of their ticket based on a win or loss.

In my eyes, the value and determinant on whether or not I go to games is if I have fun.  The game and team can completely suck, and I might still have fun at the game.  It would be even more fun to get a win, and fans have every right to complain if they don't.

The way I choose to enjoy an NT game these days, is the same way I enjoy a Rangers' game.  I realize how emotionally and physically devoted some of you are to NT football, but I have to admit maybe I'm a worse fan for not caring very much.  But at times like this, I am glad that I care enough to be upset that we suck, and not enough to make claims like, "I'm done, I'll never go to another game again."

←

Good post! You are not alone. I, too enjoy the games. Win or lose. Of course, I prefer wins.

[MeanMag]

Let's see.... Emmitt is "bad" for "expecting" performance

AND YOU’RE hoping

"Maybe we will get another lucky recruiting class sometime soon"

Sorry, but the most overused excuse is that you should not be able to hold programs accountable. And yes only a small amount of programs make money, but Football is the money maker and you would hope the Administration would want to maximize its product. But then again maybe their thinking if we can get the same 15K to show up regardless of our investment WHY invest????

←

I was being facetious.

[FirefightnRick]

What message is sent to RV, the coaching staff and the general public?  North Texas wins...fans are happy.  North Texas loses (in embarrasing fashion)...fans put on a happy face. 

←

The problem is, if you want to make a statement that your unhappy with the way things currently are, these three are not your target audience, the BOR is.

Rick

[Got5onIt]

I wasn't trying to retort your point.  I was trying to point out a flaw in comparing our school to a corporation.  I know you said, "I know NT is not a corporation", but if you know that, why the comparison?

Sports fans and customers, in my opinion are completely different.  Sports fans are emotionally tied to teams and depending on whether the team is doing well or not an emotion is tied to that.  Sports fans keep coming back, because there is something more than just entertainment, goods, or services being provided to the fan.

The expectation placed on business by customers is that of getting what you paid for. 

I don't care what sports team you are watching, but depending on what your definition of getting your money's worth is, it can be a rollercoaster ride.  So, every fan has to ask themself why they keep coming back if they value the price of their ticket based on a win or loss.

In my eyes, the value and determinant on whether or not I go to games is if I have fun.  The game and team can completely suck, and I might still have fun at the game.  It would be even more fun to get a win, and fans have every right to complain if they don't.

The way I choose to enjoy an NT game these days, is the same way I enjoy a Rangers' game.  I realize how emotionally and physically devoted some of you are to NT football, but I have to admit maybe I'm a worse fan for not caring very much.  But at times like this, I am glad that I care enough to be upset that we suck, and not enough to make claims like, "I'm done, I'll never go to another game again."

←

The good thing about your point is that you are certainly in the minority. Winning college programs bring more support in the forms of donations and fans. Did I fail to mention recognition for the university? Is it a coincidence the Univeristy of Texas is seeing a record number of applications from prospective students?

Die hard fans will always be there, but you can't grasp at new fans without winning.

I applaud you for having fun during a 35-0 blowout loss at Fouts. Do you sit in the parking lot until the 2nd half?

Edited October 31, 2006 by Got5onIt

[MeanMag]

The good thing about your point is that you are certainly in the minority. Winning college programs bring more support in the forms of donations and fans. Did I fail to mention recognition for the university? Is it a coincidence the Univeristy of Texas is seeing a record number of applications from prospective students?

Die hard fans will always be there, but you can't grasp at new fans without winning.

I applaud you for having fun during a 35-0 blowout loss at Fouts. Do you sit in the parking lot until the 2nd half?

←

To be honest, I sat at work with a fellow coworker and listened to the game. The anticipation is the best part... Not knowing whether or not we will lose by 35 or 2 is very exciting.

[Got5onIt]

To be honest, I sat at work with a fellow coworker and listened to the game.  The anticipation is the best part...  Not knowing whether or not we will lose by 35 or 2 is very exciting.

←

LOL!!!!!!

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Can you imagine what it would be like if every business had the fan 'loyalty' that some on this board expect?  McDonald's starts serving uncooked burgers and publicly bashing their customers and the proper response would be?  Oh yes, continue to buy extra value meals and NEVER threaten to be "done" going to McDonald's because that would only show you to be a quitter.  Hilton Hotels leaves dirty sheets on all of the beds?  Hey, just think of all the clean comfy rooms that Hilton provided several years ago.  Can't read this post because your internet provider keeps screwing up your connection?  Don't you dare do anything to voice displeasure because that would only make the employees of these companies sad. 

←

Great comparisson Emmitt - couldn't have come up with a better one myself. For those of you who say "no this is not the same thing" just CONTINUE to be in denial. Thanks for the great post.

[Stan R]

I'm starting to think Mr. FFRick has been possessed by the evil spirit of the poster "Moot".

What the heck do you know Rick that you aren't spilling the beans on???

Edited October 31, 2006 by Stan R

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---A person always shows loyality to to his family, friends, country and to his school even if he doesn't always agree with the things as they are. He tries to change what he can and accept what he can't.

--- Friends, family, country and his past history including his school is not a business situation.

---There is a huge difference....

Now for the political remark...

______________________

---Texas and education in Texas needs a different Governor, ones that care about schools, colleges, parks, and state services instead of helping his personal friends and contrbutors.... . Vote next week and you can be justified in complaining... Don't and you just need to shut up.. you got what you deserved.

(my opinion and many others in education or working for the state)

[UNTLifer]

I'm starting to think Mr. FFRick has been possessed by the evil spirit of the poster "Moot".     

What the heck do you know Rick that you aren't spilling the beans on???

←

Sure would be nice to hear from Moot about now.

[El Paso Eagle]

---A person always shows loyality to to his family, friends, country and to his school even if he doesn't always agree with the things as they are.  He tries to change what he can and accept what he can't. 

There comes a time when loyalty becomes blindness. Unconditional acceptance can become the downfall of many good intentions. Following blindly is the easy way out.

[TIgreen01]

Unconditional acceptance can become the downfall of many good intentions.

←

Nowhere in SE66's post did he mention 'unconditional acceptance.'

Following blindly is the easy way out.

Quitting is even easier.

---A person always shows loyality to to his family, friends, country and to his school even if he doesn't always agree with the things as they are. He tries to change what he can and accept what he can't.

--- Friends, family, country and his past history including his school is not a business situation.

---There is a huge difference....

SE66, you have hit the nail on the head here. This is THE difference maker in this argument. People fight for things such as these....not quit on them.

Edited October 31, 2006 by TIgreen01

[jimmyjames_99]

QUOTE(El Paso Eagle @ Oct 31 2006, 11:23 AM)

Following blindly is the easy way out.

Quitting is even easier.

Exactly!!!

Those who are "done" because of our coaching and our losing record can leave! I believe they would just bring me down if they came and bitched the whole time.

I enjoy going to Fouts on Saturdays, taking my boys, and watching the game. I feel better when we win, but I enjoy the game regardless. I voice my concern over the current situation, but I will never stop being a fan.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but not going to a game has more impact on me than I believe it does in sending a message to the program!

[MeanMag]

---A person always shows loyality to to his family, friends, country and to his school even if he doesn't always agree with the things as they are.  He tries to change what he can and accept what he can't. 

--- Friends, family, country and his past history including his school is not a business situation.

---There is a huge difference....

Now for the political remark...

______________________

---Texas and education in Texas needs a different Governor, ones that care about schools, colleges, parks, and state services instead of helping his personal friends and contrbutors.... .  Vote next week and you can be justified in complaining... Don't and you just need to shut up.. you got what you deserved.

(my opinion and many others in education or working for the state)

←

Good post... maybe I am not in the minority.

For those of you who say a comparison can be drawn: I'd like to see you go across the street and support Texas, because obviously their product is better (defending national champions). Maybe you will get your money's worth there.

Edited October 31, 2006 by MeanMag