Dickey will stay another year

[SilverEagle]

This season is my 59th following North Texas football and I've attended around 300 games but this year is my last unless there is a coaching change.  I'm serious as a heart attack about this. 

Call me disloyal if you like but I just can't stand to see the alma mater that I love sink to laughing-stock status among my friends and fellow alumni.  It is not a second-rate university and I won't tolerate second-rate football teams anymore.

←

Okay folks, if there are still some people on (or lurkers reading) this board that are still not sure that our football program is in trouble, then I present this post by GEO as the "canary in the coal mine". (in case some of you don't know what that means, here is a link).

http://www.petcaretips.net/canary-coal-mine.html

I would also include the post by drex as furthur evidence that something is seriously wrong with the football program.

I strongly suggest that RV and the other "powers that be" take notice.

Edited October 26, 2006 by SilverEagle

[PlummMeanGreen]

Okay folks, if there are still some people on (or lurkers reading) this board that are still not sure that our football program is in trouble, then I present this post by GEO as the "canary in the coal mine". (in case some of you don't know what that means, here is a link).

http://www.petcaretips.net/canary-coal-mine.html

I would also include the post by drex as furthur evidence that something is seriously wrong with the football program.

I strongly suggest that RV and the other "powers that be" take notice.

←

Bill, with NT Exes and MG fans still having had only "one" quarterly meeting the last umpteen years (after many, many broken promises of more to come) I'd guess most can assume they really don't want to hear from all of those they'd like to buy their season tickets and give some hard-earned monies?

Sadly, there are still some on our UNT Board of Regents who have been fooled by a hardy handful in our athletic department. Wonder if each of our BOR's could have been flies on the wall inside the UNT athletic dept. the last few years just to see how many resume's had been regularly getting updated on company time (of which I'm sure fiction would have even been part of some of those)?

What is it that we are missing out here in the UNT community of which decisions should have already been made that our UNT powers that be have years of results to go by which (would have already been made at any other NCAA D1-A outpost) and even from that group might suggest to our UNT leaders that the decisions they need to make are of the, uh, no-brainer variety?

CLEAN HOUSE! GIVE US ALL A FRESH NEW START! (even for those who would be moving on who may need one worse than we do).

Edited October 26, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTLifer]

This season is my 59th following North Texas football and I've attended around 300 games but this year is my last unless there is a coaching change.  I'm serious as a heart attack about this. 

Call me disloyal if you like but I just can't stand to see the alma mater that I love sink to laughing-stock status among my friends and fellow alumni.  It is not a second-rate university and I won't tolerate second-rate football teams anymore.

←

This is why he must go. GrayEagleOne has followed this program for 59 years, and this situation is the one that will cause him to stop attending games.

I have attended games since the mid/late 60's and this is the most discouraged I have ever been. Why? We finally looked like we were headed in the right direction after the 2001 season. Conference championship, bowl game, new facilities on the horizon. The next few years were even better. This was DD's chance to capitalize on our success by reaching out to the fans, improving recruiting, etc..., but DD sqaundered this opportunity. Despite receiving contract extensions and raises he chose to bad mouth the university, his situation, the facilities, the fans, etc... You reap what you sow. DD is driving this program into the ground, losing fan support that has taken so long to attract and slowing down the search for donors to fund our new stadium. Do you think the donors want to be associated with a program that is exciting and on the rise or one that is headed in the exact opposite direction?

[PlummMeanGreen]

This is why he must go.  GrayEagleOne has followed this program for 59 years, and this situation is the one that will cause him to stop attending games.

I have attended games since the mid/late 60's and this is the most discouraged I have ever been.  Why?  We finally looked like we were headed in the right direction after the 2001 season.  Conference championship, bowl game, new facilities on the horizon.  The next few years were even better.  This was DD's chance to capitalize on our success by reaching out to the fans, improving recruiting, etc..., but DD sqaundered this opportunity.  Despite receiving contract extensions and raises he chose to bad mouth the university, his situation, the facilities, the fans, etc...  You reap what you sow.  DD is driving this program into the ground, losing fan support that has taken so long to attract and slowing down the search for donors to fund our new stadium.  Do you think the donors want to be associated with a program that is exciting and on the rise or one that is headed in the exact opposite direction?

←

Damn good post, UNTLifer....Except I would have sensationalized it a bit more, uh, National Inquirer-style?!?!?! (Just kiddin' on a subject that is very serious to all of us who have been following this a few decades--sorry, but I got a one year head start on most of you with my personal boycott and it makes me even sadder to read where a 59 year supporter of Mean Green football (and long time friend of many of ours) has just about had enough with this group in our athletic dept.

All this just makes me feel even more anger toward UNT leadership because I don't think they give a rat's ass about how some of us who were even at the snow game versus Bobby Bowden's Florida State team at Fouts Field back in the day feel about all this.

BTW, I don't recall seeing Bobby Ray at that snow game or any others for most of the 3 plus decades I've followed Mean Green football and now he makes most of the Big Decisions and leads us as chairman of the UNT BOR's in getting all this mediocrity rubber-stamped?

Again, damn good post, very concise and to the point! I want to take your writing course, UNTLifer!

Edited October 26, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[Eagle1855]

he isnt going to be here next year, dont get worked up about it

[Travis]

Why do people get their panties in a wad when some threaten to pull their flow. From the reports on here and others I heard, when you call and tell the athletic department why you don't want to support the program you get indifference from them. If they don't care whether we give money, then I don't see the problem. They could care less, and I get my money to go towards some cool stuff that I wouldn't otherwise have.

[gangrene]

Why do people get their panties in a wad when some threaten to pull their flow. From the reports on here and others I heard, when you call and tell the athletic department why you don't want to support the program you get indifference from them. If they don't care whether we give money, then I don't see the problem.  They could care less, and I get my money to go towards some cool stuff that I wouldn't otherwise have.

←

These reports of the comments the athletic department is making towards long-time donors/supporters is disheartening and completely unacceptable. It's no wonder we can't build any consistency in the private donor pool with that kind of attitude.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

We should all look on the bright side to the football situation. At least when it is over we will have our great basketball season to go watch. JJ is going to have a team this year. The way it looks like right now, especially with the way the coaches voted we are expected to finish second in our division, and that should be good enough to at least win a conf tourney game. So, don't worry about football, basketball season is right around the corner.

[FirefightnRick]

This season is my 59th following North Texas football and I've attended around 300 games but this year is my last unless there is a coaching change.  I'm serious as a heart attack about this. 

Call me disloyal if you like but I just can't stand to see the alma mater that I love sink to laughing-stock status among my friends and fellow alumni.  It is not a second-rate university and I won't tolerate second-rate football teams anymore.

←

WOW! That is an amazing statement in and of itself reading this from one of our most loyal alumns.

For those of you new to the program who may not realize it, that GEO is a very well respected and long time supporter of NT. Most of those I know within the Mean Green Nation know and recognize him as one of our foundations of loyalty, a long time standard face-in-the-crowd at many events and an excellent represenative of our university.

This speaks loud and clear that there is a problem that needs to be addressed quickly.

Rick

[GreenBat]

We should all look on the bright side to the football situation.  At least when it is over we will have our great basketball season to go watch.  JJ is going to have a team this year.  The way it looks like right now, especially with the way the coaches voted we are expected to finish second in our division, and that should be good enough to at least win a conf tourney game.  So, don't worry about football, basketball season is right around the corner.

←

Another failed seaon, whoopee. JJ has had more talent than most of the other Sunbelt teams and he's bowed out in the first round or not made the tournament. I will cheer for the men's & women's basketball teams, but until they PROVE they are contenders and not pretenders, I will not make the drive 53-mile one-way drive when there are tons of HS games where there is more effort given closer to home.

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

Until we have broad participation of alumni and community showering money on UNT, the university will remain relatively poor. The university's history of substantial reliance on the state trough will not support a high-level competitive athletics program. That is because there are two particularly giant hogs at the state trough already. You loyal and long-time supporters are simply too few to make up the difference. By reducing your support, you will not send a message that will be heard. The university, for whatever reason, does not agree that a high-level competitive athletics program is a necessity. Accordingly, they are not going out like wild trying to raise funds for it.

Reducing support is the exact opposite of what you should do. Every bit of private support the university receives is good. You would do better to call and send letters explaining why having a high-level competitive athletics program is a necessity, and suggesting that the university should take an aggressive broad-participation approach to fund-raising rather then digging deep on a few.

The university would have to invest money just in properly implementing a broad fund-raising campaign. Accordingly, they would need to be convinced even to undertake it. They are not going to respond to threats. But I think they will respond to persuasive ideas.

I am giving a lot more to UNT now than I ever have before. I urge all of you to do the same. On the one hand, if we can make UNT a rich university, maybe they will decide they can afford the luxury of a high-level competitive athletics program. On the other, I actually think a high-level competitive athletics program is an important and necessary component of making the university more rich. (It is an important part of building connections that lead to contributions.) That is why I see it as a necessity, not a luxury. The university does not see it that way. You should take every opportunity possible to convince representatives of the university to see it that way. There are some there who do, but they need your assistance.

In that process, the key questions are, why try to raise more funds?, why have the pride of athletics success to offer students and the commmunity? Presumably, we don't need to raise more money if we're not gong to have a respectable athletics program. Part of the answer is that there is such a synergy between the two. Once the decision is made to raise funds broadly and to offer that pride, there are investments that have to be made, but they will pay off in transforming the image of the school, which is a transformation that keeps on giving, literally.

Your enthusiastic support would actually be better directed at the university administration than at the football players. They could use your relentless encouragement to expect the university to rise to a new level and your ideas on how that can happen. Successful efforts in that regard will eventually produce the effects you are looking for on the field. Threats to pull support, however, will absolutely not.

[PlummMeanGreen]

A_V, if UNT were located in Appalachia, ie, which (according to some media) is America's version of a 3'rd world country wherer poverty abounds I might agree with some of your thinking; but UNT is not located in Appalachia (although hearing a few post game radio comments the last few years you'd think were were).

Yet UNT located in one of the Fortune 500 meccas of the USA with those out here in the DFW Metroplex (about 6 million population according to NTCOG) with the largest marjority of business types (many with UNT degrees) who have never been approached by any official from UNT because too many officials from UNT don't know their way out of Denton once they leave their offices at 5:00 PM (for those who would be doing the needed fund-raising).

Most of us grUNTS out here don't have the time (or the potential UNT athletic dept. donor's list) to do much in the area of fundraising and many of us won't do anything anyhow to make it look like we support our present direction by supporting this present group over in the UNT Athletic Dept. (Any of you read a few days ago where a 59 year supporter of Mean Green football is at his wits end with this group at UNT, too)?

But why show any semblance of moral support to our bottom-feeder producing group at UNT because their efforts have annually produced SBC/Bottom 10 type results in football and even low national rankings during 4 bowl year (and we won't even get into a discussion of our minor varsity sports programs).

BUT FWIW, at UNT we actully have those whose job descriptions suggests that they do have the time to go out there and cull new donors and it would only be "ONE" who they would need to capture his (or her) imagination that would be able to put a very large down payment toward jump-starting our new football stadium at Eagle Point Campus. BUT sadly to some extent..............many do not want any of our present group to even be at a ribbon cutting at UNT's new football stadium because of the extremely low profile results and production we've seen from this present crowd with our present athletic program (of which the Super Pit can never be used as an excuse for having a very average NCAA D1 basketball program).

AND by the way..................Just who was it that hired our basketball coach who is also struggling with an under .500 overal record after a number of years on the payroll (right along with most his fellow UNT varsity coaches save the woman's soccer coach)? Who (God help us all) will play a major part in hiring DD's successor who we will be stuck with for (probably) another decade of an under .500 college football performance while those who have done the hiring most likely get fired or boogie down the road to some other business venture?

Jeez, folks, just how long do UNT coaches whose trends after a few years show us all that they are not going to do much better in the area of improvement of which is most visible (and obvious) to the entire Mean Green Nation? Hellsbells! Just how much longer will these people get to stay on the UNT payroll to show us all more of the same? We out here in the civilian world would call that a dream career what some have going on at our alma mater, although most of us would have more pride to say what we are actually doing is an integral part and is helping all of our respective companies to actually improve and grow on an annual basis. At UNT, they (apparently) just bide time (with the approval of Bobby Ray's BOR's) until the Big 12 comes a-callin'. How cushy a deal is that, eh?

25 years of mostly pathetic football coaches hiring at UNT sugggests that UNT never does learn from its history and quite frankly, I look for UNT to hire some Deep South souther fried "Buford T. Ledbetter" with ties to some school in Missiissippi this time around. I WILL SAY IT ONCE AGAIN: At UNT we just don't learn from our history and seem to just keep repeating it.

A high profile hiring is not what UNT will do but rather we'll get another one like a Dennis Parker or a DD (who "only" had his first above .500 season in Year 5 on the UNT payroll. QUESTION: Can UNT really afford (again) such a coach who will deliver his first winning team in maybe his 5'th or 6'th year at UNT? What kind of impression would such a coach as that make among DFW area high schools all over again? Maybe just one reason why our present group of coaches cower down to the thought of recruiting DFW area high schools the last few years until they saw the criticisms of many of our NT Exes (even on GMG.com) demanding that that absurd practice of ignoring recruits from this 6 million populated area cease and cease pretty damn fast?

Nevertheless, I doubt that we will learn from the past 25 years of hiring head football coaches at UNT because trends suggests we won't, but this time around, there will be fewer (than the NCAA D1-A's required 15K average minimum per home game who will even care when they detect such a "projects" hire); that is, the many who would care less to watch another UNT head football coaches hiring that has run amuck and is stuck in a multi-year under .500 career at THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS.

TO THE UNT BOARD OF REGENTS:

CLEAN HOUSE ACROSS THE BOARD & GIVE THE ONES YOU'D LIKE TO $UPPORT ALL THIS A CLEAN SLATE COUPLED WITH FRESH NEW IDEAS THAT DON'T STAY ON THE IDEA PLANNING SHEET (and which might even get us to averaging over 25k-30,000 per home football game like we should have been doing the last 9 years with all our growth).

NONE OF THIS IS ROCKET SCIENCE, FOLKS!

Edited October 27, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

You're just bashing, man and not even making any sense. You're going to have a hard time persuading people at the university to do any different after you've insulted them.

Though in enrollment UNT is big, in private money coming in, it is VERY small. No ONE person is going to change that. I do have much higher aspirations for UNT than if it were located elsewhere. Instead of berating the people for not reaching out to the larger community, you should direct your energies to trying to convince them why they should do so. You say it's not rocket science, but in fact making the case for the program and investment is harder than you think. When you start making a real effort at it, and if you are honest and objective in your thinking about it, you will find challenges in articulating your vision in a way that does not rely on unprovable assumptions.

[PlummMeanGreen]

You're just bashing, man and not even making any sense.  You're going to have a hard time persuading people at the university to do any different after you've insulted them.

Though in enrollment UNT is big, in private money coming in, it is VERY small. No ONE person is going to change that. I do have much higher aspirations for UNT than if it were located elsewhere. Instead of berating the people for not reaching out to the larger community, you should direct your energies to trying to convince them why they should do so. You say it's not rocket science, but in fact making the case for the program and investment is harder than you think. When you start making a real effort at it, and if you are honest and objective in your thinking about it, you will find challenges in articulating your vision in a way that does not rely on unprovable assumptions.

←

What do you mean I've insulted them? They have insulted me (and many of my fellow NT Exes )one of whom has followed MG football for 59 years and is going to cease even doing that soon if DD and the level of SBC/Bottom 10 football which has some on this forum thinking this man is the 2'nd Coming of Vince Lombardi) is not removed from his job prettty damn quick--like he should have been post-MTSU loss several weeks ago)?

A-V, I think you've lived from afar with all this for awhile now, but I've been (like many others on this board) very close to the action for most of 30 plus years and have not been on the outside looking in much of that time with some of our athletic personnel. I don't choose to do this any longer because I've seen and heard enough. I've also seen and heard about one of our athletic staffers who has on several occassions insulted some of my fellow NT Exes (and personal friends) in a crowded room full of UNT supporters embarrassing them to no end because of such treatment and this from a freakin' state of Texas employee? Well..............I say bullshit to that from any state of Texas employee and to the one responsible, I would like for them to have their asses kicked out of the Denton city limits as soon as we have the kind of leadership with the balls to rid us of this kind of UNT employee no matter what dept they'd be in at our campus. I do believe in some "less violent" forms of frontier justice, but just as effective.

Many of us also see what our university's top leaders seem quite content to support at the level they choose to support it and minor league college football ain't going to be what most NT Exes support en mass. A-V, (again) we live in a major league sports market and minor league anything is not a horse that is going to run (to put it in Parker County terminology ).

BUT..........."I" am not making sense? You mean we should all accept carte blanche all this athletic crapola at its lower depths and under .500 performances of most every varsity coach we have on payroll at UNT and just look down at our shoe laces and tell our BOR's country-style: Yes suh, we sho' glad we have yall leading our school with all this that yall are rubber-stamping every year while giving to all of us all those coaches extended contract extension approvals at every turn for coaches who should be at Midwestern State and NOT an employee at an NCAA D1-A school even at the"UNT level." present-status.

No, sir, A_V, I have NOT insulted them...................They have insulted me (and many of my fellow NT Exes) who have actually seen MG football played at a higher profile or level than some of this board's 'Johnny Come Lately's" who think they have seen the best of the best with bottom of the barrrell successes (come on, people, how impressed has the Texas media and Texas HS recruits been with those 4 big bowl games)? SMU started outrecruiting us after our 4'th bowl game when we should have been putting them in the recruiting grave-yard here in the DFW Metroplex.......................NOT!

A_V, just how many people in the DFW Metroples (of which Denton is a part) do you think would go back to supporting a minor league baseball team (en mass) over the Texas Rangers?

How may people in the DFW Metroplex (of which Denton is a part) do you think would support a semi-pro football team over the Dallas Cowboys and do so en mass?

You, sir, need to experience all this first-hand by being at every pre-game, then every game and then every post-game as many of us have for most of the last 3 plus decades and then get back and see if you would post what you are posting now.

At UNT......................we hang onto mediocrity longer than any NCAA D1-A athletic program (outside the SBC) than I can ever remember observing the 40 plus years I've followd college football at its highest level, but this group at UNT seems to be working over-time as they continue to persevere with something which 9 years worth of trends (and small SBC-type goals) indicates is not going to change for the better unless we get new leadership in the UNT Athletic Dept. and many of us mean new leadership............... ACROSS THE BOARD!

Have A Nice Day...

Edited October 28, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[NT80]

Until we have broad participation of alumni and community showering money on UNT, the university will remain relatively poor. The university's history of substantial reliance on the state trough will not support a high-level competitive athletics program. That is because there are two particularly giant hogs at the state trough already. You loyal and long-time supporters are simply too few to make up the difference. By reducing your support, you will not send a message that will be heard. The university, for whatever reason, does not agree that a high-level competitive athletics program is a necessity. Accordingly, they are not going out like wild trying to raise funds for it.

Reducing support is the exact opposite of what you should do. Every bit of private support the university receives is good. You would do better to call and send letters explaining why having a high-level competitive athletics program is a necessity, and suggesting that the university should take an aggressive broad-participation approach to fund-raising rather then digging deep on a few.

The university would have to invest money just in properly implementing a broad fund-raising campaign. Accordingly, they would need to be convinced even to undertake it. They are not going to respond to threats. But I think they will respond to persuasive ideas.

I am giving a lot more to UNT now than I ever have before. I urge all of you to do the same. On the one hand, if we can make UNT a rich university, maybe they will decide they can afford the luxury of a high-level competitive athletics program. On the other, I actually think a high-level competitive athletics program is an important and necessary component of making the university more rich. (It is an important part of building connections that lead to contributions.) That is why I see it as a necessity, not a luxury. The university does not see it that way. You should take every opportunity possible to convince representatives of the university to see it that way. There are some there who do, but they need your assistance.

In that process, the key questions are, why try to raise more funds?, why have the pride of athletics success to offer students and the commmunity? Presumably, we don't need to raise more money if we're not gong to have a respectable athletics program. Part of the answer is that there is such a synergy between the two. Once the decision is made to raise funds broadly and to offer that pride, there are investments that have to be made, but they will pay off in transforming the image of the school, which is a transformation that keeps on giving, literally.

Your enthusiastic support would actually be better directed at the university administration than at the football players. They could use your relentless encouragement to expect the university to rise to a new level and your ideas on how that can happen. Successful efforts in that regard will eventually produce the effects you are looking for on the field. Threats to pull support, however, will absolutely not.

←

We don't have a lot of deep-pocket donors, but we do have a lot of small donors that get turned off quickly when said University turns a deaf ear to them. I won't throw bad money after good if it's not appreciated and if I don't agree with the decisions made with it; and I certainly won't increase it during those events, that's stupid to think people would when mistreated. Bottom line is the University better pay attention to those 1000 small donors as much as they do to the few big ones, we're not staying where not wanted!

Edited October 28, 2006 by NT80