past the point of no return. why the wait?

LoveMG · October 23, 2006

rick needs to do the right thing for the program and go ahead and announce a change will be made. i wish darrell well but this must happen so candidates can be attracted and fans reassured there will be a different direction..

bigrobdsp · October 23, 2006

he should have another coach picked before even considering dumping DD.

FirefightnRick · October 24, 2006

Assuming we have the money to buy out the current conrtact? That's the next question, what is the buy out?

Rick

Arkstfan · October 24, 2006

Assuming we have the money to buy out the current conrtact? That's the next question, what is the buy out?
Rick
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Back in 2001 ASU didn't have the money to buy out Joe Hollis (who some felt we shouldn't fire given that he had just been diagnosed with prostate cancer) and transferred him into an open PE professorship for a year with the school paying the difference between his contract and the budgeted teaching salary and hired Steve Roberts, then a year later had enough money on hand to buy out the remaining year.

shaft · October 24, 2006

What's the difference between announcing a coaching change and making one on the spot? Likewise if things are so urgent that changes have to take place right now why let any senior play?

If its about the future then throw'em all out. Or should we be remotely human and let the guy in the hospital bed playout the season with the kids he recruited.

PlummMeanGreen · October 24, 2006

Assuming we have the money to buy out the current conrtact? That's the next question, what is the buy out?
Rick
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CHASING DD BALL RABBITS AND MORE....

First of all, DD will never quit or resign from his job at UNT even if his physician had a gun to his head insisting he get out of coaching today.

BUY-OUT? I've heard anywhere from $400K to $800K but don't know how reliable those figures are. If DD stays, how much will his style of coaching (and stealth recruiting of many project players) cost UNT at the turnstiles, donations by "would be" Big Donors who could double or triple what the MG Club presently brings in by itself with all its new members and of course, his present football program of which its trends show all indications that it has not bottomed out but probably would (completely) in another year or two. Can UNT really afford 2 more years of DD-Style football? So would all that make it worth buying out DD's contract even if it were as high as $800K?

In a perfect Mean Green World, DD's 4 bowl teams would have (each) been ranked inside the Top 40 (although preferably in the Top 25) and recruiting would have been what it would be for most any other NCAA D1-A football program that has been to 4 bowl games in a row. As we all know by now, our MG World has proven to not be perfect after those 4 bowl games. Some of you recognized this long before I did.

IF WE ARE GOING TO PLAY BIG MONEY GAMES.......THEN PLAY SOME REALLY BIG MONEY GAMES, RIGHT?

It seems of late UNT's Big Money games have dwindled down to the range of anywhere between $300K-$400K while there are some schools out there (I believe in the SEC?) that are paying as much as $700K to $800K per game with their guarantees. FWIW................If we are going to have one Big Money game per football season then why don't we schedule a truly big money game since the results would most likely be the same? Wouldn't you want to make an additional $400K by playing a Tennesse or Auburn over such schools as Texas if you were still going to get pretty well the same scoreboard results? If we had played one of those $800K games this season, ol' Extended Contract$ U wouldn't be in the pickle our leaders have rubber-stamped us into the last few years.

CAN YOU SELL A COMB TO A BALD-HEADED MAN? DD Ball became virtually un-sellable and un-marketable for many of our NT community after big losses to Tulsa and La Tech last Fall. That confirmed many fears that our recruiting had not been keeping pace the previous 2-3 years and I think most any of you would say the Bulldogs and Golden Hurricane football programs would have been more than fair barometers for UNT to use as comparisons. What was more confusing how La Tech has not been bowling for quite awhile and if we can use last season's game results, they were still out-hustling us on the recruiting trail .

I think as of last Saturday night, DD-Style Ball has become virtually un-marketable to many more of you who were not yet convinced until the ASU loss. 6 overtimes against a lowly thought of FIU football program should have been enough. I think many more would also now say that DD's 9 lives as head football coach at UNT have just about run their course.

.............................................

If DD's buyout were $800K, then just maybe the over-staffed UNT athletic dept. (that is, over-staffed for a non-competitive in most every varsity sport non-BCS program such as ours is); anyway, might the UNT athletic department need to do some serious down-sizing to help toward getting some of that buyout money? Also such a down-sizing for the reason of positioning ourselves to hire someone who may need one of those expanding balloon contracts that would increase significantly each succeeding year after we have absorbed the brunt (shock?) of having paid out all of DD contract exten$ion$.

Of course, we wouldn't have such buyout problems today if not for those "every other football season" extended contract recommendations and subsequent approvals. Remember how many back then were wondering while asking the question: "Why do they feel the need to keep doing this with DD's contract in light of how low we rank among everyone else even during bowl years?"

And that another reason some think we have had questionable decision-making by some of our key UNT leaders. If UNT coaches were using the old recruiting card excuse and saying: "We need those extensions to our contracts to help our recruiting" then I think you might of heard some extremely large belly laughs among those of the MG Nation who have been following our recruiting life among the projects, ie, our brand of stealth recruiting that heavily depended on all our "project" recruits development. Sure we had a few successes with some projects, but I think most didn't develop (or stay around long enough to develop) and I feel our W/L record of the last 2 years more than proves that point.

This is one helluva' mess we're in with all the extra contract extension$ that many of you predicted back in the day might come back to bite us in the a$$! Well, I think those who were preaching all this back then have a much, much larger choir to preach to who have now all suddenly become believers. Praise be to Eppy!

Edited October 24, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

Cr1028 · October 24, 2006

The best thing that ever happened to DD was the Sun Belt conference because if we had stayed in the Big West, he would not be our coach right now, bank on that.

Got5onIt · October 24, 2006

What's the difference between announcing a coaching change and making one on the spot? Likewise if things are so urgent that changes have to take place right now why let any senior play?
If its about the future then throw'em all out. Or should we be remotely human and let the guy in the hospital bed playout the season with the kids he recruited.
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You must be George Dunham.

Noone wishes harm on Dickey, the person. However, if you fail at your job, miserably, would you expect to keep your job?

VideoEagle · October 24, 2006

The best thing that ever happened to DD was the Sun Belt conference because if we had stayed in the Big West, he would not be our coach right now, bank on that.
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That’s certainly true - the Big West doesn’t sanction football! You don’t need a coach at all if you don’t have a team.

FirefightnRick · October 24, 2006

Back in 2001 ASU didn't have the money to buy out Joe Hollis (who some felt we shouldn't fire given that he had just been diagnosed with prostate cancer) and transferred him into an open PE professorship for a year with the school paying the difference between his contract and the budgeted teaching salary and hired Steve Roberts, then a year later had enough money on hand to buy out the remaining year.
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I believe in '97 we re-assigned Simon to asst AD over facilities for a while then Helwig hired DD. Soon after Simon took the RB job for the Balitmore Ravens. I can't remember if Simon was relieved of the HC job during the season or afterwards?

The timing for different programs as to WHEN to announce that a change would be taking place vary's in so many ways. North Carolina fired their coach Sunday, or saturday night. Idaho let their coach finish his recruiting and announce his class, then announce his resignation that next day. Then Erickson was announced the next HC the following day. I suppose their previous HC had been working with them the whole time for the timing to have been worked out like that?

For NT I don't see a reason for the delay now assuming that it's going to happen at all?

Rick

Edited October 24, 2006 by FirefightnRick

VideoEagle · October 24, 2006

I believe in '97 we re-assigned Simon to asst AD over facilities for a while then Helwig hired DD. Soon after Simon took the RB job for the Balitmore Ravens. I can't remember if Simon was relieved of the HC job during the season or afterwards?
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Simon was not reassigned till after Christmas, maybe lat January.

TheColonyEagle · October 24, 2006

I was thinking about this the other day.

Despite what DD has said on numerous occasions about how awful it is around UNT, (he knows, he works there every day), there has to be a coach out there, big name, talented, up and coming, whatever.........that would be licking his chops to come here.

The local talent that's here, the new facilities, the growing fan base (despite our dismal record the past 1.5 years, they're still showing up, tailgating, etc.) the possibility of a new stadium, plus, there IS some talent on this team.

A coach with any sense would have to look at this situation and know it is set up for him to be a hero. All the hard work has already been done! All he would have to do is come in here and put the team together, get the players on board with him and responding to hime, improve discipline, get the fans excited, just say "HI I'm the new football coach and we need your help." SOMETHING!

I'm just thinking, if I'm a coach, I'm looking at Denton, TX saying, I could go down there and turn this thing around in a couple of years with the athletes available to me, the facilities I have to recruit to and the possibility of conference realignment and I could be a freaking hero when they open up a new stadium. I honestly don't think it would take much. Just a coach that takes it upon himself to get the attendance up, adds a buzz around the team, and makes another conference want us. Then the sky's the limit. Yeah, with new coaches Ark St. has improved, MTSU has improved. Also ULALA and Troy have improved but none of those teams have the advantage we have in that we just happened to be located in a better spot on the map than they are. None of those teams have the long term appeal that UNT has in my opinion. And it's totally due to geography.

I would bet anything that the day there is an announced coaching vacancy at UNT, the line will form to the left. Despite our inability to pay a coach right now, if he's got any forward thinking at all and any confidence in himself, he has to realize that sucking it up for a few years until the program gets built up any more could mean bigger rewards down the line.

I'm starting to think a fresh start ALONE would be something. We've just gone stale.

VideoEagle · October 24, 2006

One of the pluses about giving DD all of those extensions and pay raises is now the base salary for the NT Head Football coach is significantly higher than it was when either DD or Simon was hired.

Stan R · October 24, 2006

A coach with any sense would have to look at this situation and know it is set up for him to be a hero. All the hard work has already been done! All he would have to do is come in here and put the team together, get the players on board with him and responding to hime, improve discipline, get the fans excited, just say "HI I'm the new football coach and we need your help." SOMETHING!
I'm just thinking, if I'm a coach, I'm looking at Denton, TX saying, I could go down there and turn this thing around in a couple of years with the athletes available to me, the facilities I have to recruit to and the possibility of conference realignment and I could be a freaking hero when they open up a new stadium.
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Some very good points Dwight. Now please resume your responsibilities as "Assistant to the regional manager".

SilverEagle · October 24, 2006

Here's my concern.

At this point Coach Dickey is at risk of looking more like a disgruntled employee, than as a professional looking for his next challenge.

He doesn't seem to be happy here, and hasn't been for some time. It doesn't appear that there's any way that his contract with be renewed in 08, so why wait around for the axe to fall?

This is a very unhealthy (no pun intended) situation for Coach Dickey, and the school as well.

GrandGreen · October 24, 2006

It is my understanding that DD has a contract thru 2009 not 2008. This creates a huge problem if there is not a reasonable buyout clause. This is a problem that was created by the AD and he should be held responsible.

Why did the athletic director recommend and the BOR approve an extension to DD contract (and RV's)? What possible benefit to NT was signing DD or any other coach already under contract to a long term extension. Any NT benefit derived from a long term agreement relative to coach retension and recruiting imo is greatly overshadowed by the risk. Not many coaches honor contracts when better offers arrive and based on DD's comments, he would not be an exception. DD's brand of recruiting imo would not be effected at all by contract status.

Stan R · October 24, 2006

It is my understanding that DD has a contract thru 2009 not 2008. This creates a huge problem if there is not a reasonable buyout clause. This is a problem that was created by the AD and he should be held responsible.
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Yep, absolutely right in my opinion. RV is going to have to get very creative to get out of this contract.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 24, 2006

Yep, absolutely right in my opinion. RV is going to have to get very creative to get out of this contract.
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Well if he can't, then it is going to be a very loooooooooong time until we can remove him. And if that is the case, there are very few teams in the top 75 in D1 that would put up with a coach who is now only won 4 out of his last 14 in that coach's 9th season.

Cr1028 · October 24, 2006

That’s certainly true - the Big West doesn’t sanction football! You don’t need a coach at all if you don’t have a team.
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I meant that he'd still be getting toasted by Boise State.

PlummMeanGreen · October 24, 2006

I meant that he'd still be getting toasted by Boise State.
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And aren't our former Big West conference mates, ie, the BSU Broncos ranked something like, uh, #16 in one of the polls this week?

We don't deserve less in Denton and at our alma mater, folks, no matter what our scenario has been and the excuses we've been given by those on our payroll whose talents (or lack thereof) have the power to make or break us. We just have to hire those in Denton who know how to pull off what Boise State has been doing for awhile now and it might be such hires who have done all this at other NCAA D1-A outposts in their past?

Edited October 24, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen