Offensive Question

[Green Guy Bass]

Here is a serious question....although at this point it is a hypothetical one.

Say DD is gone one day, Ramon too...don't think about the talent we have on the team right now....

How would you all feel about oe day the Mean Green running the spread offense???

I know it would make us look like a copy-cat (ala Baylor), but imagine....

1-How much fun it would be to watch.

2-How much easier it would be to recruit skill players.

3-How much tougher it would be to defend it, rather than simply putting 8 in the box.

...alright folks fire away...this is something that I think could save the program one day...what do you all have to say about this?

A founding member of the Green Guys (remember them?)

[NM Green]

I have been thinking the same thing after watching all three Hawaii home games this year.

There isn't a June Jones or Mike Leach type offense in the Metroplex. That type of offense would draw certain types of players and if you think about generation Next that might just be the type of game they are interested in playing. It would be a massive philosophy change for the Program and fanbase to overcome, but it sure does seem effective. It puts fannies in the seats, that is for sure.

GMG

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

How about just a balanced offense?

[LongJim]

How would you all feel about oe day the Mean Green running the spread offense???

I know it would make us look like a copy-cat (ala Baylor), but imagine....

1-How much fun it would be to watch.

No question it's fun to watch.

2-How much easier it would be to recruit skill players.

I don't know about that. Lots of QB's and RB's don't like that offense, because they don't feel it prepares them for what they feel they might do in the pros. Ditto the receivers, who can take a lot of punishment in the spread. It's also very much an all-or-nothing offense--much like the Wishbone. It takes huge amounts of practice repetitions to run effectively.

3-How much tougher it would be to defend it, rather than simply putting 8 in the box.

It is very difficult to defend with comparable athletes, because to defend it well, there has to be pressure put on the quarterback without blitzing. The spread invites the blitz--in fact, they are hoping for it, as a good spread QB will torch a blitzing team.

To defend it, the defense must disguise coverages and show a lot of movement before the snap to confuse the QB. The DL must get pressure on the QB without blitz help, and the LB's and secondary have to destroy the WR's on every play. Superior athletes who are well-conditioned, and well-coached will beat the spread offense 9 out of 10 times. It's not really any different than any other offense, in that more athletic teams can stop it eventually.

It's big advantage is that it can score so much and so quickly, that a spread offense team can get so far ahead that some better teams can be beaten with it, because they are not 'geared' to come back and score as quickly to catch up--thus the large number of upsets--and the large number of 55-45 games you see with spread teams.

...alright folks fire away...this is something that I think could save the program one day...what do you all have to say about this?

I don't think it's what UNT should be doing, long term.

EDIT: To answer your question--sort of--I believe the MG would be better served to emulate the Dallas Cowboys of the early '90's. IE: A power running team that can throw the football, with a defense built on speed and aggressiveness.

Edited October 12, 2006 by LongJim

[Got5onIt]

EDIT:  To answer your question--sort of--I believe the MG would be better served to emulate the Dallas Cowboys of the early '90's.  IE:  A power running team that can throw the football, with a defense built on speed and aggressiveness.

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I agree with this. UNT needs to run it's base offensive set out of I-Form single tight. Much like the Cowboys of the early 90's. A dual threat TE and 2 solid receivers shouldn't be too hard to find.

A solid running game is key in clock management. DD knows this but takes it to an EXTREME level.

[eeally]

If you have not noticed Texas Tech is suffering with inexperience at QB and a Poor running attack!!!

I think we would surely excel with our O-Line play in a spread O.

That was sarcastic!

[LongJim]

If you have not noticed Texas Tech is suffering with inexperience at QB and a  Poor running attack!!!

I think we would surely excel with our O-Line play in a spread O.

That was sarcastic!

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Those are actually very good points. Lots of people overlook the fact that the spread is very dependent on the run, as well. Tech has suffered from the loss of Taurean Henderson--no doubt about it.

Points well taken: It doesn't matter WHAT offense you run if you can't execute it, and/or you're "out-athleted".

[gangrene]

Lots of QB's and RB's don't like that offense, because they don't feel it prepares them for what they feel they might do in the pros.

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No offense Jim, but that's downright hilarious! When is the last time we had a QB preparing for the pros?

[LongJim]

    No offense Jim, but that's downright hilarious!  When is the last time we had a QB preparing for the pros?

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I just meant that more often than not, the QB's running the spread (in college) are not blue-chippers.

[Got5onIt]

Those are actually very good points.  Lots of people overlook the fact that the spread is very dependent on the run, as well.  Tech has suffered from the loss of Taurean Henderson--no doubt about it.

Points well taken:  It doesn't matter WHAT offense you run if you can't execute it, and/or you're "out-athleted".

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Taurean Henderson & Ricky Williams before him were KEY cogs in those offensive machines. They were "Reggie Bush" before Reggie Bush.

Honestly, I think Jamario could accell in this type of offense. Speed, speed, speed & hands are the key.

[gangrene]

I think Jamario could accell in this type of offense. 

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Might he possibly excel too?

[Got5onIt]

Might he possibly excel too?

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Grammar Nazi's, boy I tell ya.

[LongJim]

Taurean Henderson & Ricky Williams before him were KEY cogs in those offensive machines. They were "Reggie Bush" before Reggie Bush. 

Honestly, I think Jamario could accell in this type of offense.  Speed, speed, speed & hands are the key.

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Not trying to beat UT's drum, but if you have some time this weekend to catch the Baylor/Texas game, take a look at the defenses that will be run to try to stop Baylor's spread attack. It will give a good idea of how the spread offense fares when facing better athletes. It will be an interesting game from that standpoint.

[NM Green]

Texas is a poor comparison because doesn't a team that "out-athletes" you beat you no matter what type of offense you run? A spread offense or Dickey ball would fail in the long run on a consistent basis, but a spread offense might keep you in the game a bit longer or at least give you a chance to come back.

The one note you made about the running back is huge. This is the first year I have seen UH with a true running threat in Nate Ilawa. You have a perfect storm brewing in the 50th state because Colt Brennan (Transfer from Colorado) is a stud. Nate reminds me of Brandon in his size and in how low to the ground he runs - his balance is phenomenal. They are having no problem confusing defenses and had a chance to pull off upsets in Tuscaloosa and Boise. They fell short by a touchdown in both games but those places are tough to win at.

I am not saying throw the running game out the window, because you can't if you want to win in a Leach/Jones system. However, take a look at the type of ball being played at the high school level. There are more players being developed in that Southlake Carroll system than ever before.

Someone mentioned earlier about the practice required to run it and that poster was right on. The amount of passes that get thrown at a UH practice is huge. You pass and catch and pass and catch and pass and catch and test routes for hours on end.

Whoever the coach is make sure they know how to teach a system and that they are an expert in that system. He can then bring in the coaches to fill the deficiencies and bingo - a good D, creative O, solid coaching adjustments = wins!

beat arkie state

[LongJim]

Texas is a poor comparison because doesn't a team that "out-athletes" you beat you no matter what type of offense you run?  A spread offense or Dickey ball would fail in the long run on a consistent basis, but a spread offense might keep you in the game a bit longer or at least give you a chance to come back. 

The original poster asked about defensing the spread. The Baylor game should provide an illustration on how to defense it. Yes, with superior athletes, but also in scheme. No question that the spread can keep a team in the game against most teams.

I am not saying throw the running game out the window, because you can't if you want to win in a Leach/Jones system.

You're right. Henderson had how many 1K seasons?

SLC develops good players because they play sound fundamental football and are very well-coached. They were winning long before they ran any variation of the spread. The spread offense has probably the least to do with their overall success as a program.

EDIT: To me, I think if UNT implemented a true spread, run and gun type offense, yes, it would put butts in seats, and be exciting, and also probably dominate the Sun Belt--eventually. I think for the level of talent that UNT is now able to recruit, it would be a pretty good fit, and be a good idea for the program on several levels--short term. I think that it limits the program in the type and ability of recruits that it will attract long-term, however.

Put it this way: UNT should expect--eventually--to be able to recruit Texas athletes at a higher level than any other school in Texas with the possible exception of UT. That is my expectation for UNT football. And UNT athletics, really. If that is the goal, and UNT can achieve it, then there is no reason to run the spread offense. Line up, whip their ass on defense, and shove it down their throat at will whether by air or on the ground.

Edited October 13, 2006 by LongJim

[NT03]

How much easier it would be to recruit skill players.

I think it would greatly benieft the recruiting.

Kids like playing in the system , plus w/ the 7 on 7 gaining more and more popularity in the offseason there are more blue chippers developing at the skill positions ( Not a proven fact , but cant see how it doesnt greatly help )

I think you have to put your self in a 18 yr. old's mind. Its easier to sell an Offense that you can play on PS2 than try to sell an Old School style coaching philosophy... Im sure 90% of all Texas High athletes have never heard of Doak Walker , but im sure most know who Wes Welker is

[calvin]

First of all to compare Ricky Williams of Texas Tech and Taurean Henderson to Reggie Bush is ridiculous, that is not even a close comparison.

As far as the spread goes, we run a little bit of the spread. We have a one back set with 3 wides and we have some gun stuff with 3 wides, we just have no kind of passing attack out of it. I think we can keep our same stuff, as far as our inside zone running scheme we just have to somehow get a more sophisticated passing attack. I think that has been the most discouraging thing is how can after all these years we still not have a passing game ?

I dont think going to the Tech or the Hal Mumme air show is the answer, just ask NMSU about that one, but yes we need to find some sort of passing attack.

[Green Guy Bass]

I think the Keith Whitmire article in the DMN is right on....

To those who question NT going to this offense has good counterpoints, but when you are not able to recruit the skill of a Texas, or OU you need to have something that is appealing...

To expect kids to be completely on board with a traditional offense( ala 90's Cowboys) is somewhat unrealistic these days, especially when they know they would be going to a place where there is less talent than most Big 12 schools....they would expect getting pounded and expereicing a lot of 3 and outs (sound familiar??)

You could cause some problems with this offense, maybe gain some talent to run it,, maybe win some OOC games with it...which would help recruiting. Once you have things up and flying and gain better talent you can always mold the offense into a more of a traditional look, all while being known as a team that likes to air it out...many teams have done this...it could work here if we committed to it.

I am glad this whole post is getting some thought out responses that hinges around football, instead of bitching about what we don't have...its always better to think about solutions and discuss them rationally, instead of bitching about existing problems.

Bass

[Censored by Laurie]

Bump

[GreenBat]

Bump

What is the purpose of bringing up a thread that is almost two-years old?

[Censored by Laurie]

I found it interesting how accurate GGB was....and its not like theres that much more talk going.

I could've started a helmet sticker thread.

[UNT_92_Fan]

I am offended by this offensive question

[DeepGreen]

God help us if Plummer digs into his archieves and brings out the "stadium talk/35E-35W Interstate Intersection/250,000 cars passing daily" threads.

[ntexeagle]

Is it "Ground Hog" day? Again?

[NTPhiKap99]

I think you have to put your self in a 18 yr. old's mind. Its easier to sell an Offense that you can play on PS2 than try to sell an Old School style coaching philosophy... Im sure 90% of all Texas High athletes have never heard of Doak Walker , but im sure most know who Wes Welker is

Ok it's a 2 year old post but you can't mention PS2 and kids playing I assume NCAA and then say they've never heard of Doak Walker. There's a Doak Walker award on the game I don't recall a Wes Welker award.

PS. This tread was a great prediction.