How come NT cant upset big name teams

FirefightnRick · October 10, 2006

First off, we have had our share of upsets in the past including this year. It's just not happened as often as we would like it to, but it has happened. Tech, Cincy, Baylor, SMU.

Second, as posted earlier, RV did not sign the contract with tU, Helwig did. RV did sign one with OU for next season. Who cares, it's just one game and it's a great opportunity for us. TCU saw it that way last year. No reason why we can't either, well, given that there are some changes down the road?

Third, What RV did address immediately when he got here was to take EVERYONE's advice and lighten the schedule by getting us one of the easiest schedules in recent history with La Tech, SMU, Akron and Tulsa. When this schedule was first made out our leadership was thinking 10-2, 11-1?

Fourth. FlyOnTheWall has invested more in this athletic program than most of us combined. Thank your lucky stars we have him on board. Doesn't mean you have to agree with him and I imagine he was only sarcastically guessing on the Kenny Evens bit. He more thank likely is having a bit of fun with you, and you with him. No harm in that at all.

Finally, we all want the same thing and I see nothing but a brighter future for this program and our shedule should reflect that as well.

Rick

MeanMag · October 10, 2006

Watching the replay of #15 Clemson and Wake forest game and Clemson won but Wake Forest gave them a good run...
They are always a good number of teams that upset their foes on any given day in college football. Why isnt NT ever one of them....I know everyone will say it is this or that but still cant we pull an upset once a year like everyone else...0
Also why are their less people on the board
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Wake, I thought would win that game before it even started.

They might be the most underrated team in the nation, and before last weekend nobody knew how good they were. And they weren't ranked.. at 5-0... They had something to prove.

They came into that game undefeated with wins over Syracuse, Duke, UConn, Ole Miss and Liberty.

While none of those teams are ranked world beaters, they are decently big name schools and they didn't lose to one of them when it would have been easy to have a let down at least one week in there.

Meanwhile, we had losses to Akron, MTSU, and Tulsa. And the games weren't even close. You don't just expect to upset somebody on any given saturday. Winning is a habit, and if it's not part of a regiment and not addictive, then asking why we can't upset someone huge is a silly question when we can't even take care of business at a lower level.

It is even more important to win on the level that we are on before begging to upset someone out of nowhere.

bigrobdsp · October 10, 2006

You don't just expect to upset somebody on any given saturday. Winning is a habit, and if it's not part of a regiment and not addictive, then asking why we can't upset someone huge is a silly question when we can't even take care of business at a lower level.
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I dont know about "huge", but I am pretty big and this team has managed to upset me on a pretty regular basis.

Edited October 10, 2006 by bigrobdsp

PlummMeanGreen · October 10, 2006

But who??---- The NCAA investigators????
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I got in trouble in the 4'th grade playing marbles for keeps (which I was told by my teacher was gambling?) Well, I haven't, uh, gambled ever since! (OK, I told my first GMG.com lie! Sue me)!

BUT............if your talking about Rick Neuheisel, he has no NCAA violations attributed to him and was exonnerated of his "personal" situation that had nothing to do with the school he was employed. Now at UNT, I know we have to have coaches who are next to perfect or, uh, have nail scars in the palms of of their hands which we've had a dime-a-dozen in Denton; yet hasn't it been that group who all made some pretty nice salaries while they were crucifying our football program at the same time? For certain, we all want integrity with our football program yet there have been coaches who have stubbed their toes with the NCAA in the past but who wanted to continue their college coaching career and found ways to avoid future controversies.

UNT officials at some time in the future are going to have to show some real bonafide gonads with who they hire OR they can be "extremely" safe, hire a Sunday School teacher who has been a journeyman assisstant coach with one BIG YEAR as an offensive coordinator at Southern Presbeterian University (no one tjat anyone on GMG.com would know, of course) but won't we probably get just another 25 years of what we've had the last 25 years which can best be described as life as one of the NCAA D1-A bottom-feeders? It amazes many of us how that has been so acceptable by our flock of green-wooled sheep who could be led anywhere by just about anyone.

FWIW, SCREAMING EAGLE-66, there are those at other NCAA D1-A outposts (including the one located in the western part of Denton, Texas, America) who hired those who had prior brushes with the NCAA and they were cleared of any wrong-doing just like Rick Neuheisel was. Most hardly think UTEP's Mike Price arrived in El Paso with an alter boy image and he (like Neuheisel) was not officially charged with any of the allegations charged to him and UTEP seems to be running a clean ship now.

UNT's hiring of Rick Neuheisel (or someone of similar scope because it doesn't really have to be R.N.); but wouldn't such a hiring at UNT and the immediate impact it would have in MG Country across the board while touching almost every part of our campus cause many even on GMG.com to wonder why we didn't do something like this much, much sooner. Anyone think UTEP alums have thought that very same thing post-Mike Price hire? But we have been busy making sure we didn't upset some of our low-achieving career athletic staffer's plans as to cause any of them to lose those state of Texas retirements now haven't we? UNT has been one helluva' dream job for many of those who can't seem to get jobs anywhere else larger or smaller than our alma mater.

Don't any of you also feel we have so many times thru the years by our upper echelon UNT leaders been so screwed as NT Exes with who we are force-fed to accept as those who would lead us without our NT upper eltie even giving us the traditional goodnight kiss?

We have wasted so much time in Denton because we won't break our own bad hiring habits or study our own trends one would think we would eventually learn from?

Edited October 10, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

eulesseagle · October 10, 2006

I would be willing to support hiring a "tainted" coach for a second chance if that opportunity presented itself.

A lot of people, coaches included, deserve a second chance and may produce a great deal of loyalty from that individual.

However, given our current situation what would be the minimum record, this year, to keep Coach Dickey??

(1) 7-5? .... and goes to some bowl game

(2) 6-6?

(3) 5-7?

or do you want him gone no matter what record he has ??

Edited October 10, 2006 by eulesseagle

chrisfisher · October 10, 2006

I would be willing to support hiring a "tainted" coach for a second chance if that opportunity presented itself.
A lot of people, coaches included, deserve a second chance and may produce a great deal of loyalty from that individual.
However, given our current situation what would be the minimum record, this year, to keep Coach Dickey??
(1) 7-5? .... and goes to some bowl game
(2) 6-6?
(3) 5-7?
or do you want him gone no matter what record he has ??
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I wish I could know who would replace him before I answered this question. But, with all the ugly loses, I'd have to say gone no matter what. However, I am very scared as to what we'll get for his replacement.

PlummMeanGreen · October 10, 2006

I wish I could know who would replace him before I answered this question. But, with all the ugly loses, I'd have to say gone no matter what. However, I am very scared as to what we'll get for his replacement.
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Based on the last 25 or so years at UNT, you for darn sure ain't alone with that concern, Mr. Fisher.

NT80 · October 10, 2006

the last time we played tech with any regularity was also almost 10 years ago.
the spread on that game was 5 1/2. I think 50ish was a pretty big surprise.
of course you thought they were pretty even. you are an NT fan. the world on the whole did not think that.
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The last time we beat Tech was in 1999, 8 seasons ago. They were not a good team either then and promptly fired Spike Dykes after that season.

The great? Cincy we beat in 2002 finished 7-7.

Baylor WAS a bad team in 2003, and beat us with basically the same team the next season 37-14.

SMUt is, well, SMUt. Yes, we beat a Top 110 team. Big deal.

Edited October 10, 2006 by NT80

UNT_playmaker · October 11, 2006

The question I posed, was plain and simple....Why cant we beat a team that is a big name school...

Whether it be a Clemson, Arkansas, Oklahoma, or A&M.....

I dont want to discredit players who played their hearts out in important wins, such as the Baylor, Tech and SMU wins we have had....

But seriously...other bad teams beat big name schools

Montanta State ( Craig Kilborn alum) beats Colorado....UNT couldnt do it if it was NT playing colorado that same day on the same field....NT wouldnt go in their with a game plan to win the game, or players dont go in their saying we are going to win....Its both the players and coaches fault...

There are always a few players at UNT that think big, we can beat big name schools cause thats what we came out to do( best examples ))

-----Brandon Kennedy,Scott Hall,Patrick Cobbs,Johnny Quinn, Brad Kassell, Adrian Awasom, Nick Bazuldua,Don Neon Mcgee,Andrew Smith(He won the Cincy win) sorely missed

NT adminstrators who think big to win

----- Rick Villareal and Norval Pohl---only....

My biggest fear at NT we have someone good and replace them with god know what....we dont know what they can do here in North Texas for us....

Gary Deloach-----Fred Bliel-- from San Diego state....downgrade...

Norval Pohl---Gretchen Bataille----downgrade for Athletics

Darrell Dickey---god knows what 4A High School coach...

YOU GUYS NT ADMINSTRATORS WILL NOT ALLOW MONEY TO HIRE A BIG TIME COACH, WE NEED ALL OF THAT MONEY TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE KNOWN AS A ARTS AND MUSIC SCHOOL.

Edited October 11, 2006 by UNT_playmaker

TIgreen01 · October 11, 2006

Otherwise good post until you got here...

Gary Deloach-----Fred Bliel-- from San Diego state....downgrade...
Norval Pohl---Gretchen Bataille----downgrade for Athletics
Darrell Dickey---god knows what 4A High School coach...
YOU GUYS NT ADMINSTRATORS WILL NOT ALLOW MONEY TO HIRE A BIG TIME COACH, WE NEED ALL OF THAT MONEY TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE KNOWN AS A ARTS AND MUSIC SCHOOL.
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Deloach was replaced by Kenny Evans = HUGE downgrade

Kenny Evans replaced by Fred Bliel = BIG upgrade

The jury is still out on Dr. Bataille. However, I am encouraged by what I've read about her, her public communications and the fact that I've seen her at every home football game. She hasn't come out and said that 'Athletics is the window to your university', but rather she seems to be willing to take us that next step. Dr. Pohl broke down barriers and pissed a lot of people off. Dr. Bataille has an opportunity to smooth some of those rough edges while helping us continue on that same path....becoming a truly NATIONAL university. She's smart enough (and experienced) to know that she needs athletics to help us get there. That's just my take, but I think we're in for a bright future.

LongJim · October 11, 2006

-----Fred Bliel-- from San Diego state....downgrade...
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You lost me here.

GreenGramma · October 11, 2006

But seriously...other bad teams beat big name schools
Montanta State ( Craig Kilborn alum) beats Colorado
And the next week Division 2 Chadron State College beat Montana State

Edited October 11, 2006 by GreenGramma

PlummMeanGreen · October 11, 2006

Otherwise good post until you got here...
Deloach was replaced by Kenny Evans = HUGE downgrade
Kenny Evans replaced by Fred Bliel = BIG upgrade
The jury is still out on Dr. Bataille. However, I am encouraged by what I've read about her, her public communications and the fact that I've seen her at every home football game. She hasn't come out and said that 'Athletics is the window to your university', but rather she seems to be willing to take us that next step. Dr. Pohl broke down barriers and pissed a lot of people off. Dr. Bataille has an opportunity to smooth some of those rough edges while helping us continue on that same path....becoming a truly NATIONAL university. She's smart enough (and experienced) to know that she needs athletics to help us get there. That's just my take, but I think we're in for a bright future.
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Don't most new president's at UNT get de-briefings in their first days on campus as to what they need to say concerning Mean Green athletics?

What new president who would come to a major Texas university and in "her" first few weeks say: "Well, first and foremost, we are going to study very closely our athletics and then most likely cut some of its budget?

Many of us who've been around the Mean Green scene for awhile (20, 30 or 40 plus years) would tell you who have just begun your new adventure with all this that actions do speak much louder than words.

On behalf of the new UNT president, at least she has said some positive things about the role of NT Athletics, but many of us have from past experience still have that "I'm from Missouri" attitude as in: SHOW ME?

Edited October 11, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

Cr1028 · October 11, 2006

Talent and Coaching
Although we may have some very talented young men we don't have enough. Lack of talent is attributed to the coaching staff, poor recruiting leads to lack of depth
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This is the key! Lack of depth means a poor practice squad. That leads to an unprepared football team. Is there a rule out there that you can't hire coaches to put pads on and really show the guys to play. The O-line is soft because our scout D-line is soft.

letsgiveacheer · October 11, 2006

"WE NEED ALL OF THAT MONEY TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE KNOWN AS A ARTS AND MUSIC SCHOOL."

I'm afraid you do not know of which you are speaking and am frankly getting tired of hearing that the reason that athletics do not get a chance here is because "that our money" goes to the arts.

You are comparing an academic department with athletics. Why not go after those thugs in the philosophy department? Who needs to study Hegel and Kant? If we shut down that department, maybe we use the money to start a field hockey team?

The debate team...who needs it? We can publish the "NT Daily" once a week. Let's call it the "Campus Chat" and give that money to the swimming team.

Athletics are an important part of developing a whole person, just as reading the great books are and being able to tell the difference between a oboe and bassoon. I also agree that athletics are the window of most universities, like it or not.

I can assure you the College of Music works very hard to raise money. I have given enough money to NT to receive Christmas cards from the Board of Regents, but until I took the initiative, never received any solicitations from the Athletic Department.

There are plenty of "artsy-fartsy" people on this board that support athletics (35 years for me), but until you can provide some proof (goodness, we could have learned how to perform a "proof" if we had just kept that pesky philosophy department), I cannot accept your statement.

Mean'n'Green07 · October 11, 2006

On that note,
In the Sun Belt teleconference last week, when refering to whether he felt their backs were to the wall coming into Saturday's game against FIU, DD made the comment that "here at NT" they start the season with their backs against the wall... Just more B!*$%ing about the difficult circumstances...
If you have a HC that consistantly talks down about the program and its fans, it is no wonder why we have poor recruiting and low fan attendance.
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A good indicator of a coach is how many excuses he makes and the portion of blame he puts on himself when the team doesn't meet their goals. In sports, you prepare your players for the worst situations. You teach your players that if the refs are calling bad penalties, you adapt your game and still find a way to win. When I played, one game I kept telling the coach it wasn't my fault I wasn't getting in the backfield because each play there was holding and the refs weren't calling a damn thing. My coach basically said I don't give a rats ass, we prepared you for this. Find a way to get it done or we'll find somebody else.

What message does DD send to the team with all of this? If the coach is making excuses, the players are going to do the same thing. If losing has already been expected by the coach, what do you think that tells the players going into that week of practice?

TIgreen01 · October 11, 2006

Don't most new president's at UNT get de-briefings in their first days on campus as to what they need to say concerning Mean Green athletics?
What new president who would come to a major Texas university and in "her" first few weeks say: "Well, first and foremost, we are going to study very closely our athletics and then most likely cut some of its budget?
Many of us who've been around the Mean Green scene for awhile (20, 30 or 40 plus years) would tell you who have just begun your new adventure with all this that actions do speak much louder than words.
On behalf of the new UNT president, at least she has said some positive things about the role of NT Athletics, but many of us have from past experience still have that "I'm from Missouri" attitude as in: SHOW ME?
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I hear you with the 'Show Me' speak....but why greet her with a negative attitude and assume that she's just blowing smoke?

I am just a newbie compared to several here, but I've been around 10 years...and was involved enough at UNT to know how the departments work together (not all that well), the budgeting for the school, the housing system and the effort to promote community amongst other things. I saw a lot of action in my time and expect to see action going forward, not a regression like most of the negative folks here do. From my viewpoint, Dr. Bataille is the next logical piece in continuing what Dr. Pohl and others have started. She hasn't done anything yet, but dammit people, change isn't always a bad thing.

Edited October 11, 2006 by TIgreen01

chrisfisher · October 11, 2006

A good indicator of a coach is how many excuses he makes and the portion of blame he puts on himself when the team doesn't meet their goals. In sports, you prepare your players for the worst situations. You teach your players that if the refs are calling bad penalties, you adapt your game and still find a way to win. When I played, one game I kept telling the coach it wasn't my fault I wasn't getting in the backfield because each play there was holding and the refs weren't calling a damn thing. My coach basically said I don't give a rats ass, we prepared you for this. Find a way to get it done or we'll find somebody else.
What message does DD send to the team with all of this? If the coach is making excuses, the players are going to do the same thing. If losing has already been expected by the coach, what do you think that tells the players going into that week of practice?
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One thing I've noticed about DD when I arrived last year at UNT, is that he rarely speaks in public in ways such as, "we are going to come our ready to play and give that team all they can handle. We are going to win this thing." He never seems that fired up about game, only stating we want to give ourselves a CHANCE to win. Maybe he is different with the team privately, but I can't help thinking not. The biggest example of this attitude was when he got up on national TV and said that our boys don't have the talent to beat UT, and that even if Mean Green players did play above their talent level, UT would have to also have a bad day for us to have a chance to win.... Geeez.... That was the day I really lost respect for him and questioned his ability to coach a team.

Edited October 11, 2006 by chrisfisher

PlummMeanGreen · October 11, 2006

I hear you with the 'Show Me' speak....but why greet her with a negative attitude and assume that she's just blowing smoke?
I am just a newbie compared to several here, but I've been around 10 years...and was involved enough at UNT to know how the departments work together (not all that well), the budgeting for the school, the housing system and the effort to promote community amongst other things. I saw a lot of action in my time and expect to see action going forward, not a regression like most of the negative folks here do. From my viewpoint, Dr. Bataille is the next logical piece in continuing what Dr. Pohl and others have started. She hasn't done anything yet, but dammit people, change isn't always a bad thing.
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Well, I'm an "oldie" who (like Coach Blakely used to say) "I've seen everything at UNT except childbirth."

Anyone ever think that all those who have been wanting to hang onto all this annual bottom of the NCAA D1-A football barrell trends (even during bowl years when we were ranked low) that even a college football novice with the most recent edition of an NT football media guide would be able to peruse & easily determine for themselves that in MG Country such trends (annual low rankings after all bowls are played) do exists and have for quite awhile now; in fact, could those who want the same o same o for NT football be called negative as to prevent some very positive things that could happen (again) for Mean Green football at a level we've not seen for over 25 years? Anyone remember the last time we beat a Top 25 school?

As an Independent I can say this but some of what you get on this board is almost like the Republican vs Democratic party thing presently going on that suggests that if you vote for Democrats then you coudn't possibly be a Christian? I mostly vote moderate to conservative on most things but would not go as far as to call Democrats infidels. But for damn sure don't get me started on the subjects of Rosie O'Donnell and Barbara Streisand.

Just looking at our new woman presidents background and where she's from makes some wonder if she can suddenly become a big college football supporter here in the great Southwest who will committ enough budget to Mean Green athletics to not only just give it life support (we've been there--done that in the past), but with such a budget for NT athletics will give it chance to get in the NCAA's top division's Top 50 football schools; who knows, we may luck out like UTEP and get a future new coach who can get us in the Top 25 his 2'nd year in Denton!

But, yes, TIgreen01, I (as well as many others) who have similar doubts do need to at least let our new president have her honeymoon time at UNT and give her the benefit of the doubt. I believe she has probably already listened to some fairily wise counsel already about what may be the very thing that helps her even reach all her academic goals for UNT-Denton.

If she would very wisely consider doing as Bill Gates did with MicroSoft and Mark Cuban presently does with the Mavericks, it might even be a good idea for her to frequent this forum, ie, GoMeanGreen.com so she can get cull thru the good, the bad and the ugly HSO's and just get the general pulse of the kinds of NT Exes/MG fans she will most likely need to meet many of her personal goals at UNT.

Still amazes many of us how so few Texans we actually hire at UNT to help us get out of this Tier 4 (according to US News & World Report) academic rankings quagmire we seem to be forever stuck, though.

Edited October 11, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

NT80 · October 11, 2006

IMO, there have only been a few coaches or Administrators that wanted to "shake things up Athletically" at NT and said so in public. Some did, some did not:

1. Hayden Fry. As coach and AD, not afraid to say NT should be big time and not afraid to ask people for bigger donations. He shook Denton up from his first day. He had great charisma with players and fans alike. None since like him.

2. Dr. Pohl. NT Athletics is the window to the University. Who could have said it better or been a better fan as a school President? You felt he was one of the guys you could go on a road trip with.

3. RV. So positive all the time for the Green; if he only had more money to work with at NT we'd get everything we wanted Athletically. No AD has improved gameday more. My only wish is that he would demand more of coaches and show it, demand more of fans for a New Stadium and better Conference, and return to Quarterly Meetings.

4. Corky Nelson. Wanted to play big name schools and beat many as a 1-AA program. Not the best AD but could motivate an underdog team and fans.

5. Bill Blakeley. Never has a coach been so vocal to refs on a court. Don't get within throwing distance of his coat jacket! He'd never say he was pleased with a loss. Fan favorite and not afraid to play any program. Hosted topranked DePaul with Mark Aguirre and nearly beat them.

5. Vic Trilli. Could talk the talk but couldn't ever walk the walk. Told recruits NT would be in CUSA soon, we're all still waiting. He talked like NT was headed to the Final Four every year, and could recruit the talent for it, but couldn't coach a lick of it.

6. Matt Simon. Give him a Safeway parking lot and he would play anyone, anytime. Wanted better facilities faster than Helwig would give it to him and was fired for continuing to ask.

Rudy · October 12, 2006

They are always a good number of teams that upset their foes on any given day in college football. Why isnt NT ever one of them
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The answer is simple......Any big name school is an out of conference school, and unfortunatly, our boys arent coached to WIN OOC games.

UNT_playmaker · October 12, 2006

If we can get the last laugh of the two game series and beat La Tech this could might as well set us into cruise control for CUSA to pick UNT for the next spot which can happen at any moment.....Everyone knows it is between La Tech and NT

UNT + CUSA ==== HUGE RAMIFICATIONS HUGE

eulesseagle · October 12, 2006

Rudy=

There was a blog about a couple of months ago showing OOC W-L's for all college conferences.

As I remember UNT is right at the median for OOC wins under Coach Dickey in our Mid-Major status.

The numbers for this have already been posted somewhere in the plethora of threads on this site. What it comes down to is that Coach Dickey is "average" when it comes to OOC wins as compared to other Mid-Major programs.

Again Rudy, as painful as it is and as it is with the rest of us, the SBC:

1. Is the lowest rated D-1A conference in America.

2. Has the Worst OOC record of any conference.

Any mid major program has a difficult time beating any BCS program unless, as you know, you catch someone like Colorado (0-fer), Wake Forest (0-fer), Stanford (0-fer) or NCState (losing to Akron) in an off week.

Not until there is another shake up in college athletics will UNT have a chance to move to another conference.

If you read some of the blogs on the LaTech board, evidently, there is some sort of chatter of them wanting to move to CUSA, too.