Question about RF

CorinthEagle · October 9, 2006

I'm leaving the stadium Sat night, the fireworks are going off, players still on the field and who do I run into in the parking lot? Ramon Flanigan. Literally no more than 10 minutes after the game is over he's in the lot getting in his car and getting out of there. Is this normal or just another sign that he's given up and just putting in the token effort? I freely admit I have no idea what is "normal" after a game for a coaching staff so maybe some of you former players etc on this board can help me out here.

bigrobdsp · October 9, 2006

he probably had to go to the bathroom. I dont know if you have seen the bathrooms at fouts, but...

pollock · October 9, 2006

he probably had to go to the bathroom. I dont know if you have seen the bathrooms at fouts, but...
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drex · October 9, 2006

No, it is not typical for a coach to leave immediately after a game. Usually they stay around for quite some time. Many make notes, etc., while the game is on their mind. Flanagan was probably headed to an SMU game watching party since the Ponies were playing out in El Paso and he could catch the second half.

Quoner · October 9, 2006

No, it is not typical for a coach to leave immediately after a game. Usually they stay around for quite some time. Many make notes, etc., while the game is on their mind. Flanagan was probably headed to an SMU game watching party since the Ponies were playing out in El Paso and he could catch the second half.
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sure he wasn't driving across the street to the AC?

centex eagle · October 9, 2006

Went in a texas restroom when we were a couple of years ago and NT restroms look ok.

ADLER · October 9, 2006

The team heads for the Athletic Center after the games. Having a car at Fouts probably allows the coaches to get back to their offices and get cleaned up before the team busses arrive. The Athletic Center is where all the team´s post-game activities happen.

I think this is a non-issue.

mad dog · October 9, 2006

sure he wasn't driving across the street to the AC?
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Thanks Quoner. If you didn't say it, I would have.

The guy was watching film of the game for several hours after the game, as is his usual custom. Again, you can blame him for the offensive slump, and I can't argue very well against that.

But if you want to talk about working hard, I'd point to the 70+ hours a week he puts in. He is up between 4-6 every morning, and typically not going to bed until midnight. He'll get a little sleep this next week, and might only work 50 or so hours.

Question the end result if you have complaints with him. Point to the bottom line of the worst offense in the nation. But saying that he's bailing to go kick back and watch SMU... that's ridiculous. In all likelihood, he was going back to start figuring out how they are going to play Arkansas State in two weeks.

flyonthewall · October 9, 2006

Thanks Quoner. If you didn't say it, I would have.
The guy was watching film of the game for several hours after the game, as is his usual custom. Again, you can blame him for the offensive slump, and I can't argue very well against that.
But if you want to talk about working hard, I'd point to the 70+ hours a week he puts in. He is up between 4-6 every morning, and typically not going to bed until midnight. He'll get a little sleep this next week, and might only work 50 or so hours.
Question the end result if you have complaints with him. Point to the bottom line of the worst offense in the nation. But saying that he's bailing to go kick back and watch SMU... that's ridiculous. In all likelihood, he was going back to start figuring out how they are going to play Arkansas State in two weeks.
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Of the seventy hours you claim he works, how much of it is on PS2. He is not the hardest working coach, and he is certainly the laziest recruiter.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 9, 2006

Of the seventy hours you claim he works, how much of it is on PS2. He is not the hardest working coach, and he is certainly the laziest recruiter.
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I for one, think that RF is probably a better OC than we see because he has to run all of the plays through DD and DD shoots down most of them, and that is why we only see a handful of plays. Outside of the money issue, I really can't figure out what kept him here as opposed to going to Tenn Tech or State or wherever it was.

I am all for getting rid of DD here now and making him Interim coach to finish out the season just to see what he can do, but it is not going to happen. As far as recruting goes, who knows. I would have never guessed that our recruiting would be this poor after winning 4 straight titles and 4 straight bowl game appearances.

But oh well. We won the game. Be. Happy. We. Won.

flyonthewall · October 9, 2006

I for one, think that RF is probably a better OC than we see because he has to run all of the plays through DD and DD shoots down most of them, and that is why we only see a handful of plays. Outside of the money issue, I really can't figure out what kept him here as opposed to going to Tenn Tech or State or wherever it was.
I am all for getting rid of DD here now and making him Interim coach to finish out the season just to see what he can do, but it is not going to happen. As far as recruting goes, who knows. I would have never guessed that our recruiting would be this poor after winning 4 straight titles and 4 straight bowl game appearances.
But oh well. We won the game. Be. Happy. We. Won.
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Yeah, Yeah, Lets give a cheer. We beat the worst team in the country and it only took us seven overtimes of which our kicker missed how many field goals?

Got5onIt · October 9, 2006

C'mon guys, Rmon is too easy a target. I will agree that he should shoulder some of the blame, but make no mistake on who decides the style of offense and plays this tem runs.

Dickey doesn't where the headphones to block out fan obscenities.

Green Crazy · October 9, 2006

C'mon guys, Rmon is too easy a target. I will agree that he should shoulder some of the blame, but make no mistake on who decides the style of offense and plays this tem runs.
Dickey doesn't where the headphones to block out fan obscenities.

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This is my thought too. I just don't believe that a young guy like RF would have such a bland, conservative offense.

Regardless of who is making the play calls, how many times can you run that same wide receiver screen.

Edited October 9, 2006 by Green Crazy

OldTimer · October 9, 2006

All we need is a continuation of DD, and a head coach that can't control his temper and goes into the stands to try and assualt a fan. Question for anyone: who has RF recruited the last couple of years?

I for one, think that RF is probably a better OC than we see because he has to run all of the plays through DD and DD shoots down most of them, and that is why we only see a handful of plays. Outside of the money issue, I really can't figure out what kept him here as opposed to going to Tenn Tech or State or wherever it was.
I am all for getting rid of DD here now and making him Interim coach to finish out the season just to see what he can do, but it is not going to happen. As far as recruting goes, who knows. I would have never guessed that our recruiting would be this poor after winning 4 straight titles and 4 straight bowl game appearances.
But oh well. We won the game. Be. Happy. We. Won.
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edcollopy · October 9, 2006

didn't he recruit mean Joe?

mad dog · October 9, 2006

I'm not making any apologies for anyone. I think Coach Dickey might have to go, even if for no other reason than he has worn out his welcome with a lot of people, and he does not seem capable of selling the program. Not that I don't think he is a great guy, or that I absolutely love the run he led the team on that built the Athletic Center. His firing will likely be a political decision.

You could make a case for Ramon Flanigan needing to go, given the offensive woes. For me, though, I see a team that stands to be downright explosive if the offensive line is able to get ANYTHING going at all. Through six games, I've seen high school level play. No holes in the running game for Jamario, teams getting pressure rushing 3 on 6, guys getting beat like rag dolls and flat out missing assignments.

What do you call if you are the offensive coordinator? Please, anyone tell me. Actually, scroll down right now and post a reply if you can name me ANYTHING that would work if your offensive line is tanking.

Inside running plays? Nope. Not if there are three guys in the backfield to meet your running back on every play.

Outside running plays? Nope. Not if the defense is sitting in contain on the running back, the offensive line can't kick out quick enough, and the backside run protection fails.

Short pass plays? Nope. Not when the bulk of the defense is looking short pass or run. Think about it. If corners are playing up close (as they have been all season), and the linebackers are waiting in that shallow contain, where do you throw it? The slant or quick in? Over two or three linebackers, leading him just enough to get away from the defending corner but not so much that he gets pasted by the safety? The quick out? With a CB sitting in a shallow zone? The fade? Against bump coverage and with a single safety deep reading playaction post?

Long pass plays? Nope. Not if anything past a three step drop is going to be questionable in terms of pass protection. Shoot, if Woody didn't have 2 seconds against a 4 man rush, what happens when they blitz? Even if you manage to get up a lob, the deep safety comes over and picks it off (this has happened three or four times so far).

How about screens and dumpoffs? For a while, they'll work, but what happens when you dip into the bag one too many times? For the answer to that question, take a look back at the pick-six FIU had.

What do you do if you are the offensive coordinator? Just sit back and shoulder the blame, continuing to put in your time to find something that might work.

calvin · October 9, 2006

I guess we just quit playing offense then b/c anything we run will be defensed.......................

MeanGreen61 · October 9, 2006

I'm not making any apologies for anyone. I think Coach Dickey might have to go, even if for no other reason than he has worn out his welcome with a lot of people, and he does not seem capable of selling the program. Not that I don't think he is a great guy, or that I absolutely love the run he led the team on that built the Athletic Center. His firing will likely be a political decision.
You could make a case for Ramon Flanigan needing to go, given the offensive woes. For me, though, I see a team that stands to be downright explosive if the offensive line is able to get ANYTHING going at all. Through six games, I've seen high school level play. No holes in the running game for Jamario, teams getting pressure rushing 3 on 6, guys getting beat like rag dolls and flat out missing assignments.
What do you call if you are the offensive coordinator? Please, anyone tell me. Actually, scroll down right now and post a reply if you can name me ANYTHING that would work if your offensive line is tanking.
Inside running plays? Nope. Not if there are three guys in the backfield to meet your running back on every play.
Outside running plays? Nope. Not if the defense is sitting in contain on the running back, the offensive line can't kick out quick enough, and the backside run protection fails.
Short pass plays? Nope. Not when the bulk of the defense is looking short pass or run. Think about it. If corners are playing up close (as they have been all season), and the linebackers are waiting in that shallow contain, where do you throw it? The slant or quick in? Over two or three linebackers, leading him just enough to get away from the defending corner but not so much that he gets pasted by the safety? The quick out? With a CB sitting in a shallow zone? The fade? Against bump coverage and with a single safety deep reading playaction post?
Long pass plays? Nope. Not if anything past a three step drop is going to be questionable in terms of pass protection. Shoot, if Woody didn't have 2 seconds against a 4 man rush, what happens when they blitz? Even if you manage to get up a lob, the deep safety comes over and picks it off (this has happened three or four times so far).
How about screens and dumpoffs? For a while, they'll work, but what happens when you dip into the bag one too many times? For the answer to that question, take a look back at the pick-six FIU had.
What do you do if you are the offensive coordinator? Just sit back and shoulder the blame, continuing to put in your time to find something that might work.
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I don't beleive it's a matter of people sitting back and just blaming someone. Reasons and rationalization are looked on as excuses by many if what's bein' done ain't workin' .If things ain't goin' right someone has to be held responsible. That's usually the coach/coaches. THE BUCK HAS GOTTA STOP SOMEWHERE

Edited October 9, 2006 by MeanGreen61

CorinthEagle · October 9, 2006

I'm not making any apologies for anyone. I think Coach Dickey might have to go, even if for no other reason than he has worn out his welcome with a lot of people, and he does not seem capable of selling the program. Not that I don't think he is a great guy, or that I absolutely love the run he led the team on that built the Athletic Center. His firing will likely be a political decision.
You could make a case for Ramon Flanigan needing to go, given the offensive woes. For me, though, I see a team that stands to be downright explosive if the offensive line is able to get ANYTHING going at all. Through six games, I've seen high school level play. No holes in the running game for Jamario, teams getting pressure rushing 3 on 6, guys getting beat like rag dolls and flat out missing assignments.
What do you call if you are the offensive coordinator? Please, anyone tell me. Actually, scroll down right now and post a reply if you can name me ANYTHING that would work if your offensive line is tanking.
Inside running plays? Nope. Not if there are three guys in the backfield to meet your running back on every play.
Outside running plays? Nope. Not if the defense is sitting in contain on the running back, the offensive line can't kick out quick enough, and the backside run protection fails.
Short pass plays? Nope. Not when the bulk of the defense is looking short pass or run. Think about it. If corners are playing up close (as they have been all season), and the linebackers are waiting in that shallow contain, where do you throw it? The slant or quick in? Over two or three linebackers, leading him just enough to get away from the defending corner but not so much that he gets pasted by the safety? The quick out? With a CB sitting in a shallow zone? The fade? Against bump coverage and with a single safety deep reading playaction post?
Long pass plays? Nope. Not if anything past a three step drop is going to be questionable in terms of pass protection. Shoot, if Woody didn't have 2 seconds against a 4 man rush, what happens when they blitz? Even if you manage to get up a lob, the deep safety comes over and picks it off (this has happened three or four times so far).
How about screens and dumpoffs? For a while, they'll work, but what happens when you dip into the bag one too many times? For the answer to that question, take a look back at the pick-six FIU had.
What do you do if you are the offensive coordinator? Just sit back and shoulder the blame, continuing to put in your time to find something that might work.
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you know you are absolutely right. Lets just cancel the rest of this season because we can't expect the coaches to come up with something that works. Heck the same MTSU team that absolutely sucked the last couple of years all of the suddent can play with intensity and some success against Lousiville (yeah I know it got out of hand late) but lets not expect our coaches to have our guys ready. U-La-La beats Houston in Houston but we can't compete with the juggernaut that is Akron. I'm glad you posted this, completely changes my thinking of where we are. Get out the white flags boys, we surrender!!!

And if you think letting Dickey go would be nothing more than a political decision I think you have overdosed on the Dickey kool-aid

Edited October 9, 2006 by CorinthEagle

Rudy · October 9, 2006

Flanny may have very well been going to a SMUt watching party. Last year he was seen ARRIVING at the stadium at 4:30 for a 6pm kick.

mad dog · October 10, 2006

you know you are absolutely right. Lets just cancel the rest of this season because we can't expect the coaches to come up with something that works. Heck the same MTSU team that absolutely sucked the last couple of years all of the suddent can play with intensity and some success against Lousiville (yeah I know it got out of hand late) but lets not expect our coaches to have our guys ready. U-La-La beats Houston in Houston but we can't compete with the juggernaut that is Akron. I'm glad you posted this, completely changes my thinking of where we are. Get out the white flags boys, we surrender!!!
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Yeah... that's exactly what I'm trying to say. No one is at fault here, we should just surrender. Let's not even get on the bus because I don't expect the coaches to do anything at all to get our guys ready. That's exactly right.

Please. Did you even try to understand what I was saying, or are you just too caught up in your own drama to think about that?

And, by the way, you never answered my question. Let's say you are the offensive coordinator. What do you do when your o-line can't run or pass block worth a damn? I'm still waiting on that solution you seem to think is there.

And if you think letting Dickey go would be nothing more than a political decision I think you have overdosed on the Dickey kool-aid

Yeah... I must have overdosed on 4 of the best seasons in North Texas history, that took me personally from not giving a sh*t about my university to bleeding green for life. Looking big picture here, NT football is as big as it has ever been. I was at a game in 2000 where I'd be shocked if there were a thousand people there. Now we are scoffing at the 15,000 that showed up to see a 1-4 team that got blown out the week before at home. That alone should tell you what Dickey has done for the program.

You don't have to agree with me. And I don't have to agree with you.

untgirl04 · October 10, 2006

Yeah... that's exactly what I'm trying to say. No one is at fault here, we should just surrender. Let's not even get on the bus because I don't expect the coaches to do anything at all to get our guys ready. That's exactly right.
Please. Did you even try to understand what I was saying, or are you just too caught up in your own drama to think about that?
And, by the way, you never answered my question. Let's say you are the offensive coordinator. What do you do when your o-line can't run or pass block worth a damn? I'm still waiting on that solution you seem to think is there.
Yeah... I must have overdosed on 4 of the best seasons in North Texas history, that took me personally from not giving a sh*t about my university to bleeding green for life. Looking big picture here, NT football is as big as it has ever been. I was at a game in 2000 where I'd be shocked if there were a thousand people there. Now we are scoffing at the 15,000 that showed up to see a 1-4 team that got blown out the week before at home. That alone should tell you what Dickey has done for the program.
You don't have to agree with me. And I don't have to agree with you.
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Before RF goes (and I think he should go based on his behavior in the stands last year), I think they should fire this new OL coach. We can all agree that the majority of our offensive woes would be at least lessened if we had a halfway decent OL.

Granted, you do have to consider the lack of recruiting for the line, and that falls on all the coaches. However, maybe the blocking scheme they run doesn't work well for the type of players they have. I don't know that much about football, so I wouldn't be able to say who makes the final decision on the techniques the OL uses, but it seems to me that when firing coaches, the OL coach would be a good place to start. In fact, if DD came out today and fired that guy, it would probably buy him an extra game or two with me.

CorinthEagle · October 10, 2006

Yeah... I must have overdosed on 4 of the best seasons in North Texas history, that took me personally from not giving a sh*t about my university to bleeding green for life. Looking big picture here, NT football is as big as it has ever been. I was at a game in 2000 where I'd be shocked if there were a thousand people there. Now we are scoffing at the 15,000 that showed up to see a 1-4 team that got blown out the week before at home. That alone should tell you what Dickey has done for the program.

You don't have to agree with me. And I don't have to agree with you.

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emmitt01 · October 10, 2006

Illuvius, I agree with you on the whole O-line issue. But it's insane to think that this is where the problem lies. You say a quick slant won't work, or a quick out, or a fade, or whatever. WHERE ARE THOSE PLAYS IN THE GAMES? I could sit here all day and tell you that running the triple option wouldn't work but I'd be hard pressed to prove it because, like all the plays you mentioned, we don't run the triple option. Hard to argue that something won't work when we don't even try it.

And you must have a hell of a lot of confidence in SUN BELT defenses to think they're able to take away everything. If our coaching staff doesn't at least TRY to show defensive coordinators something new then defenses will be able to defend everything we do...how hard is it to defend a playbook that's 5 pages long?

e-bone ver2.awesome · October 10, 2006

Wait, let me get this straight. No blame falls on the offensive coordinator because the offense can't run any plays in the playbook? All the blame is on the offensive line? Who recruited the players on the offensive line? The coaches, per chance?

Recap: No blame goes to coaches for having a horrible offense. Also, no blame goes to coaches for recruiting the players who can't run the plays in the horrible offense.