Why can't we blame the players?

[Baby Arm!]

but when are people on this board going to man up and talk about the players.

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Why cant we blame the players?..... Because you can't fire the team, we can only fire the coaches.

[Monkeypox]

it would help us blame the players if these problems hadn't been evident year-in, year-out since Dickey's been here. it hasn't been the same players the whole time, so it's obvious where the problem lies.

[the green rokemi]

...because if you watched the fall or spring scrimmages you could tell we were better than last year. Then it was confirmed when we spanked SmU, but to watch us have nothing against MTSU?! To lose competitively is one thing, but to lose with no fight is a disgrace...

I personally think this all began when we hired one of the worst O-line coaches in america to coach our team that relies on the run!

[Green Crazy]

Maybe the only thing that the coaches can do to get the players back on their side is to pull a "Necessary Roughness" on them and say that DD (Coach Generro) is in the hospital and Bleil (Coach Rig) has to take over. This will motivate them enough to win out for the rest of the season, including a NO bowl win, where Bleil will be carried off the field on the teams shoulders.

Not to make light of DD's health, I hope he is feeling fine.

[Guest JohnDenver]

The number one reason in my mind; by definition they are AMATUER players (NCAA). They are young men that need to be TAUGHT the skills to be successfuly. Coaches are professionals. They should already know those skills (or they should continue to learn as needed, then teach).

I blame the professional and not the amatuer.

[pollock]

Umm, Bill Parcells?  Bob Knight?

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Umm, Mack Brown? Pete Carroll?

[soonerdon]

Umm, Mack Brown?  Pete Carroll?

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I can name one coach that is NOT like these jack A#*es....Steve Kragthorpe is one of the nicest guys in college football. He Recruited both of my nephews so I got to meet him and be at several games, camps, practice, his office ect...he hired coaches such as Matt Wells who all promote a positive Christian attitude. You will not hear the filthy talk like you do at NT practices or games or meetings. I'm not saying that kind of talk is totaly wrong...probably 95% of coaches in D1 use this technique and probably 99 or 100% use it in the NFL. I'm just saying that you can be a positive motivator with a christian bases and still be a winner....just look at TU's record and where they are at today. They just came off a big time bowl game from last year in which they won and they will probably do it again this year.

I heard the brodcast of the TU NT game on the TU radio network and I could not believe the crap they were saying about NT's program. They said we were a good fit in the conference we were in and we were just where we needed to be. Bull Sh*t. Earlier in the week before the TU game DD did a great interview on our local sports radio show 1430 the buzz in Tulsa. He said how tough it is running a program with such a limited budget which is true. But NT's budget is just as big as TU's and NT has facilities that blow TU away now. And I can I assure you they are not supported with donations or local support from Tulsa any better than NT and Denton/Dallas area. They are a private school with emphasis on their Engineering and law programs not Athletics. I don't know if firing DD is the answer but I think he needs to clean house on his offesive coaching staff if they can't put together a game plan any better than the one against TU and MT. That was just pathetic. The defense played well in the TU game until the second half when they gave up because the offense was 3 and out every time they touched the ball. And taking Woody out makes no sense either except to save his life from taking such a pounding evertime he stepped back in the pocket.

It IS the COACHES responsibilty to have the players motivated and ready to play. Sorry Shaft but you can't blame the players on this subject. The coaches proved they could do it for one game when we played SMU. But that isn't good enough. They have to do it every week, at least to be competitive or be held accountable.

Edited October 5, 2006 by soonerdon

[untbowler]

"Earlier in the week before the TU game DD did a great interview on our local sports radio show 1430 the buzz in Tulsa. He said how tough it is running a program with such a limited budget which is true. But NT's budget is just as big as TU's and NT has facilities that blow TU away now. And I can I assure you they are not supported with donations or local support from Tulsa any better than NT and Denton/Dallas area."

Why the hell does RV and the BOR continue to let DD spew this crap to anyone who will listen? Sick and tired of the same old stuff b/c DD and RF refuse to adapt their limited coaching abilities.

And this was done on an opponent's radio station, no wonder we have a defeatist attitude when the HC goes out and whines before every game.

[Quoner]

"Earlier in the week before the TU game DD did a great interview on our local sports radio show 1430 the buzz in Tulsa. He said how tough it is running a program with such a limited budget which is true. But NT's budget is just as big as TU's and NT has facilities that blow TU away now. And I can I assure you they are not supported with donations or local support from Tulsa any better than NT and Denton/Dallas area."

Why the hell does RV and the BOR continue to let DD spew this crap to anyone who will listen? Sick and tired of the same old stuff b/c DD and RF refuse to adapt their limited coaching abilities.

And this was done on an opponent's radio station, no wonder we have a defeatist attitude when the HC goes out and whines before every game.

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Speaking of Tulsa and Kragthorpe - this is yet another reason that maybe looking into Slocum's help is not a bad idea. He picks and develops good assistants. I won't break down the whole track record - don't care - but he was able to find a few good assistants who are now succedding elsewhere - such as Senor Kraggy. No reason to think he couldn't put a staff together that could succeed beyond him after a few seasons.

As for the boring offense criciticsm, his teams were designed not to run, but wear you down. They would pound the ball at a weak team and the score would stay close for awhile, then as his line and backs took their toll, he'd open up downfield and his teams would pull away in the second half. He didn't just run the ball with no sense of purpose or discretion - he had a gameplan.

This concludes the Slocum fan club committee meeting for 10/5/06.

I bet if Pete Carroll loses his job at USC, someone will post that we don't need him coming to UNT either. Lets win with class - Kelvin Martin for HC!

[GreenGramma]

Soonerdon, you're right about Kragthorpe, he came in and turned the program around. Actually, he saved the football program from being dropped.

He followed David Rader, laid back gentleman coaching technique and Keith Burns, a maniac, hard nosed coach -- completely opposite styles. SK took the players that were recruited by those coaches, lost with those coaches and Kragthorpe motivated them to a winning season that first year.

All he did was:

1. Demand respect from his players.

2. Ask his players to trust him.

3. And gave 1 & 2 back in return.

His players responded.

FYI:

Tulsa enrollment - 4K students. They compete with Oklahoma, Ok State and Arkansas for fans. They were lucky to break 2k in paid attendance just 4 years ago. There was 25K in attendance this year for the UNT game.

We, UNT, have 30K+ enrollment and cannot get more in attendance???

[LongJim]

Soonerdon, you're right about Kragthorpe, he came in and turned the program around.  Actually, he saved the football program from being dropped. 

He followed David Rader, laid back gentleman coaching technique and Keith Burns, a maniac, hard nosed coach -- completely opposite styles.  SK took the players that were recruited by those coaches, lost with those coaches and Kragthorpe motivated them to a winning season that first year.

All he did was:

1. Demand respect from his players.

2. Ask his players to trust him.

3. And gave 1 & 2 back in return. 

His players responded.

FYI:

Tulsa enrollment -  4K students.  They compete with Oklahoma, Ok State and Arkansas for fans.  They were lucky to break 2k in paid attendance just 4 years ago.  There was 25K in attendance this year for the UNT game. 

We, UNT, have 30K+ enrollment and cannot get more in attendance???

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Gramma knows of what she speaks!

[soonerdon]

Gramma knows of what she speaks!

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Indeed she does!!

[GreenGramma]

I also should have included:

Tulsa to Norman - 2 hours

Tulsa to Stillwater - 1 hour 10 min

Tulsa to Fayettevill - 1 hour 45 min

(This is with Gramma driving)

What schools do we, UNT, compete with for attendance that are within a 2 hour radius of Denton??

[shaft]

Yawn. The Tulsa/UNT comparision is illrelvent to this discussion. Tulsa is a different media market than Denton and why does that impact the fact that fans are this board are scared to realistically look at the entire program.

So far all I've heard is its easy to blame the coaches & it not very nice to talk about the players.

I really don't get the difference between saying Dickey can't recruit and saying these kids can't play.

I also like how the "fans" on this board have dodged the question about if this season is over then why support the team at all.

[GreenGramma]

The comparison is very relevant. And yes the markets are different.

Within the 2 hour radius -

Tulsa is the smallest enrollment in their market - Unt the largest.

Population of Tulsa market is smaller than the UNT market population.

Unt has a larger corporate base to pull funds/donations than the Tulsa market.

Unt has a larger alumni base than Tulsa.

The one thing that I've seen that makes the biggest difference -

Tulsa fans and supporters have taken their negatives and turned them around to positives.

From what I read on this board (and I am the rookie here) - Unt negatives just keep being negative.

[Got5onIt]

Yawn.  The Tulsa/UNT comparision is illrelvent to this discussion.  Tulsa is a different media market than Denton and why does that impact the fact that fans are this board are scared to realistically look at the entire program.

So far all I've heard is its easy to blame the coaches & it not very nice to talk about the players.

I really don't get the difference between saying Dickey can't recruit and saying these kids can't play. 

I also like how the "fans" on this board have dodged the question about if this season is over then why support the team at all.

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If you don't support the team, potential recruits may turn their backs on NT. You have to get better recruits in order to compete, obviously. Did that answer our question, Shaft?

Besides, at the college level talent will ALWAYS makeup for ineffective coaching.

[NTEdgex2]

The season is not over. My butt will be in my season ticket seat for every home game because I am not a fairweather fan. I am behind the Mean Green whether we are 1-5 or 5-1. That's called supporting the players and your school. This does not mean that I do not think changes are in order.

See you Saturday.

GMG!

[Guest JohnDenver]

Shaft is unlike most trolls. He actually stays around and posts for years and years... trolling on the same topics.

Why do we support the players? They will join the club that we are all members of... UNT Alumni. Dickey and staff don't have that in common with me. They collect a check and it appears that is all they care about. Once they leave this school, Dickey and Flanny can go dog another school's fan base and run a mediocre system.

The players, once they leave this program, will still be UNT alumns. They will join our club and hopefully be at the games with us.

That is the reason *I* support the players -- the seniors and freshman alike. I want to win out the rest of the season and let the seniors have a decent ending to a pretty good run of years. The last two haven't be good (by any stretch).

You are setting up a HUGE strawman argument. No one has said that they don't support this TEAM just because they think the season is over. Hey, I hope we win the rest of the SBC and end up with a winning record. That would be great... it wouldn't change my mind of the coaching though. That is only my opinion, you don't share it, that is fine.

Your reasoning goes like this: So shaft, you like Dickey and always have? You MUST like going 1-4, 0-4, 1-4 to start the season! You MUST love it! Why else would you support him? You MUST think think he deserves to be a coach in the NFL. You MUST think he is ready to coach UT. You MUST think it is the players holding him back ...

I know your position is deeper than that... why don't you give others the same courtesy? I have my ideas. You are a Dickey lover and apologist. You won't let yourself say (or think or feel) otherwise. You don't have affiliation to North Texas, you must be a close friend of Dickey... this is only my guess.

[Cr1028]

If you don't support the team, potential recruits may turn their backs on NT. You have to get better recruits in order to compete, obviously. Did that answer our question, Shaft?

Besides, at the college level talent will ALWAYS makeup for ineffective coaching. 

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Excerpt from UNT recruiting visit:

Well, you'll get to play but I can't guarantee you'll gain a yard son. We really just don't have the budget here to make a winning season. Also, the offense we run is rather limited so I don't know if we'd be able to showcase your skills here. And besides, if you get the chance at a school with a bigger budget, then jump all over it boy. But if nobody else wants you and you need a free 4 years of school, then this may be the place for you.

[FirefightnRick]

"Earlier in the week before the TU game DD did a great interview on our local sports radio show 1430 the buzz in Tulsa. He said how tough it is running a program with such a limited budget which is true.

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Shaking head, rolling eyes!

Rick

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

Last week the players were not motivated or prepared. That partly falls on them, but very much falls on the staff. The whole product was crappy, and over the years we've seen a lot of crappy, relatively speaking, even during the 'good years'. Somehow last week they achieved a new pinnacle of crappiness. We can hope it will improve immediately. In the long run, though, it won't get significantly better until the NT leadership gets out of its 'Suck at athletics. No big deal.' mindset. All it is, is a poignant embarrassment. I don't hear any strong statements about 'We won't tolerate it anymore.' coming from the university. I tell ya, I'll send the money for a while, but this is getting to be a waste of time.

[shaft]

So we can't call out the players because their going to be future alumi?

And we can rail against the coaches because they have no tie to the university?

That's just brillant.

Look Dickey's biggest problem is he can't retain assistant coaches and the ones hes does retain we all seem to hate. But DD does some things right, he realistically knows what type of talent this school can draw. Jump up and down and scream at your monitor all you want, but its true. These are the types of recruits our school is able to draw, not just the type DD can draw. But some how my recongition of this fact makes me an appologist.

I'm just asking people on this board to be honest. There's no difference between saying Dickey can't recruit and these kids just can't play at D1 level. Sure its politer and easier to call out the coach, but that's about it.

But if you think this school and these players deserve to be in D1 then shouldn't you support them through the whole season? If these seniors deserve to finish out the season, then why cut their legs out from under them by wanting the coaches to be fired mid-season?

Boycotts are necessary when you need to bring attention to a cause. But's what's to bring there to bring attention to? We've hit the skids? Dickey sucks? RV knows all this. And we all know RV will can DD at the end of the season if things don't improve.

But what do I know, I'm just a troll with no connection to this university.

[Eagle-96]

So we can't call out the players because their going to be future alumi?

And we can rail against the coaches because they have no tie to the university?

That's just brillant.

Look Dickey's biggest problem is he can't retain assistant coaches and the ones hes does retain we all seem to hate.  But DD does some things right, he realistically knows what type of talent this school can draw.  Jump up and down and scream at your monitor all you want, but its true.  These are the types of recruits our school is able to draw, not just the type DD can draw.  But some how my recongition of this fact makes me an appologist.

I'm just asking people on this board to be honest.  There's no difference between saying Dickey can't recruit and these kids just can't play at D1 level.  Sure its politer and easier to call out the coach, but that's about it.

But if you think this school and these players deserve to be in D1 then shouldn't you support them through the whole season?  If these seniors deserve to finish out the season, then why cut their legs out from under them by wanting the coaches to be fired mid-season?

Boycotts are necessary when you need to bring attention to a cause.  But's what's to bring there to bring attention to?  We've hit the skids?  Dickey sucks?  RV knows all this.  And we all know RV will can DD at the end of the season if things don't improve.

But what do I know, I'm just a troll with no connection to this university.

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You're asking board members to call out the players and you are just not gonna win that battle. You are wasting your time asking people to adhere to your position because apparently it is a position that the majority of this board, myself included, doesn't agree with. If you want to blame the players and even call them out by name then go right ahead and "man up" as you say.

A coaches job is to:

1. Find the right assistant coaches to teach the players the finer points and to be his eyes and ears at practice and at games.

2. Motivate the players with his words AND his actions.

3. Recruit the players that he thinks will be able to put the team into a posiotion to win.

4. Motivate the fan base and the community behind the program.

DD has not done very well and he has had 8+ years to do it.

I graduated from North Texas in 1996. What is your affiliation Shaft?

[Guest JohnDenver]

So we can't call out the players because their going to be future alumi?

Funny that is all you picked out of it.. I was saying they are part of the family and they MOSTLY want to be here. They will (for better or worse) have a connection to this Uni like the rest of us. Dickey, once he leaves, will just have North Texas as a bullet on his resume..

And we can rail against the coaches because they have no tie to the university?

Yes. They are PAID to be here. Paid to be successful. They should be held responsible. Students are paid to be here too, I am not saying they aren't. They get a nice scholarship and academic perks that the average student doesn't get... but their MAIN responsiblity is to graduate and to be good people. I think we have some good students on the squad -- we also have some underachievers. Dickey's only job is to help the players do well and succeed (on and off the field).

Look Dickey's biggest problem is he can't retain assistant coaches and the ones hes does retain we all seem to hate.  But DD does some things right, he realistically knows what type of talent this school can draw.  Jump up and down and scream at your monitor all you want, but its true.  These are the types of recruits our school is able to draw, not just the type DD can draw.  But some how my recongition of this fact makes me an appologist.

...as they say: "If you aim for the stars and miss, you will hit the trees. If you aim for the trees and miss, you will hit the ground." From your description, it sounds like you like that Dickey seems to always aim for the trees.

I'm just asking people on this board to be honest.  There's no difference between saying Dickey can't recruit and these kids just can't play at D1 level.  Sure its politer and easier to call out the coach, but that's about it.

We may not have the TOP talent, but we have Div1a talent across the board. It is Dickey's (and staff) job to make the talent work -- keep the motivated and keep them in the game. Some people question if Dickey hasn't lost his team's confidence. I can assume you think that if they lost the confidence in him, that it is their problem.

But if you think this school and these players deserve to be in D1 then shouldn't you support them through the whole season?  If these seniors deserve to finish out the season, then why cut their legs out from under them by wanting the coaches to be fired mid-season?

I don't think anyone has EVER said they don't support this team. Where are you getting this?!?oneoneon!on!ONEtwo?

Yes, a lot of people take this football thing so seriously that they want action and they want it now. They want Dickey to be gone NOW. I would rather wait till the end of the season if changes are going to be made. That is more fair to the students, you are right abou tthat.

Boycotts are necessary when you need to bring attention to a cause.  But's what's to bring there to bring attention to?  We've hit the skids?  Dickey sucks?  RV knows all this.  And we all know RV will can DD at the end of the season if things don't improve.

Well, people are likely gunshy from putting faith in what RV can do. Their are other factors at work -- and we all know that. Sometimes it feels like UNT is singing this song to the fans:

ubPZ-f7p_LU

But what do I know, I'm just a troll with no connection to this university.

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Finally! You said it! That is the first step... now let's do something about it. I joke. I kow you are a passionate fan like all of us.

[Guest JohnDenver]

You know shaft, the more I think of it, the more I think you are in left field.

You said the #1 problem for DD is that he can't keep the quality assistants and we don't like the ones they do?

You don't think that Boise State has the problem of being cherry picked? You don't think USM or Colorado State or ANY other mid majors have this problem?

That is not a reason. It is an excuse. Everyone has this problem. Every team. All coaching staffs are fluid... it is part of the profession. It takes a good head coach to overcome this and roll with the flow.