There were warning signs for years!

[Eagle Man]

What we face now, after nine years of Dickey ball, will be more difficult to overcome than when we returned to 1A from 1AA in 1994.

Trying to convince anyone that this university is committed to excellence on the football field will be terribly difficult if not completely impossible.

Our people, the decision makers, lack the insight, knowledge, wisdom and yes, integrity needed to make the right decisions.

Without desire there is no motivation. Without motivation there can be no bonafide committment. Without a strong commitment goals mean nothing.

We are where we are on the ladder of success because this is where we chose to be.

Shame on you all who abused your power!

The only one worth keeping is RV.

[rcade]

The only one worth keeping is RV.

←

If you feel that way about RV, how can you say we're worse off today than in 1994?

[NTEdgex2]

The powers that be need to make the decision that we are going to commit this University to being a competitive member of 1-A division athletics, or just give it up and go back to I-AA. Until they make that definitive committment, we are going no where, fast.

That said, I WILL be in the stands, I WILL support MY TEAM, come hell or high water.

GMG!

[MeanMag]

The powers that be need to make the decision that we are going to commit this University to being a competitive member of 1-A division athletics, or just give it up and go back to I-AA.  Until they make that definitive committment, we are going no where, fast.

That said, I WILL be in the stands, I WILL support MY TEAM, come hell or high water.

GMG!

←

I see no other option, but for the university to completely back us at this level. We are pot commited at this time.

The officials have no choice, Dr. Pohl and RV have set it up to where there isn't even an option at this point.

Thank God when we were having success these gentlemen had the vision/foresight and were able to capitalize on it. Our athletics program has much to owe both of them.

[TIgreen01]

Trying to convince anyone that this university is committed to excellence on the football field will be terribly difficult if not completely impossible.

Our people, the decision makers,  lack the insight, knowledge, wisdom and yes, integrity needed to make the right decisions.

←

I totally disagree with this. What could our decision makers do?! DD was on his way out in 2001---then proceeded to run the table that season and saved his job. How could anyone make a move under those circumstances. Until last season it would have been ridiculous to remove him as HC (which is what I assume you're alluding to here)....and then, you HAVE to give the guy another shot after 4 straight conference titles to prove the 2-9 record was a fluke.

If they do not act now...either now or at the end of this season (assuming the season continues on this current course), then your points can be debated.

[FirefightnRick]

Anyone who claims we are worse off now than in '95 wasn't there in '95.

Rick

[MeanGreenBuzz]

Programs go in cycles. As much as we hate to admit it we can't dominate year after year after year. We had a great 4 year run, it is going to take a season or 2 to reload. next season we will have Thomas as a Senior. Wilson having taken high level snaps for a year. An O-Line returning all but 1 starter. The only big loss I see in this offseason is Quinn and while he is a huge loss I feel very comfortable with Jackson.

Also, one thing I would like you to think about is of the assistant coaches we had on 2001 and 2002 how many are still with the program?

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Anyone who claims we are worse off now than in '95 wasn't there in '95.

Rick

←

This team is way ahead of what it was in 95 though last night night, coupled with that Tulsa game last year, were absolutely unacceptable. This team is 2 - 13 of its last 15 games? That is unacceptable when a coach is in his 9th season. You name me a D1 or D1AA team for that matter, that has had a coach for more than 8 years, that does that and kept his job.

[Eagle Man]

Anyone who claims we are worse off now than in '95 wasn't there in '95.

Rick

←

I was there in '95. I've been there since 1970. The product on the field is no better, period.

What is better is the game day atmosphere and that is the result of the efforts of one man, RV. I think my post clearly suggested that RV stay at UNT.

[Eagle Man]

I totally disagree with this.  What could our decision makers do?!  DD was on his way out in 2001---then proceeded to run the table that season and saved his job.  How could anyone make a move under those circumstances.  Until last season it would have been ridiculous to remove him as HC (which is what I assume you're alluding to here)....and then, you HAVE to give the guy another shot after 4 straight conference titles to prove the 2-9 record was a fluke.

If they do not act now...either now or at the end of this season (assuming the season continues on this current course), then your points can be debated.

←

The man had a losing record sir. He was 5-6 or did you forget? He won the freaking SBC not the Big 12. His team didn't even show up against CSU.

If our people were serious about this program Dickey would have 1) never been hired and 2) would have been fired after the 5-6 season. How many coaches get fired with winning records because their schools have a higher standard. Look at this man's record. His record screams fire me, fire me, fire me.

A wise man would have sent Dickey packing after that 5-6 record.

[flyonthewall]

What we are seeing now is not a result of cycles. It is a result of poor recruiting during and after the 9-3 season when we lost to Memphis in the NO Bowl. I remember DD's attitude during that weekend. He thought he was going to get hired away and lost valuable ground recruiting that year. What they have done is not capitilized on their success. They got lazy and thought things would come to them.

This is no one's fault but Darrel Dickey. He has created his "difficult circumstances" himself. Cycles mean that we go 7-5 or 6-6 and lose some close but competitive games. It does not mean that we hit rock bottom, and make no mistake folks, last place in the easiest conference in 1-A is rock bottom.

It is ashamed that every other aspect of the athletic program is moving forward, but our football team is going backwards. I have faith the the leadership of this university will do the right thing during or after this season is over. If they don't, then I cannot support what is going on now with football.

[ForneyGreen]

It does not mean that we hit rock bottom, and make no mistake folks, last place in the easiest conference in 1-A is rock bottom.

←

Too true...

So, if RV were to go looking for another coach, he would need a committment from the University as well as a financial committment. I'm not sure that we'll get much more money (as a pct. of student fees) from the school. Most big time programs get their money from big donations.

Would we Mean Green faithful open our wallets for RV to go and get a high-caliber head coach along with high-caliber assistants?

Let's say that RV was on board with reassigning Dickey and grabbing a very good head coach - someone who would demand a salary in the $400,000.00 range. Would we come to RV with a 3 year financial committment (say 1.2 million) to make this happen?

There are some notable exceptions to the "money = football success" formula, but not many. If we want that high profile coach, let's go to RV with open wallets and show him the support that he really needs.

And FWIW - I do appreciate what Dickey and RV have brought to the program over the past 5+ years. We are further along in both talent and facilities (and fan base) than we were in 1994. Let's not tear it down - let's march forward. RV can only march faster if we give him the tools he needs.

[GrandGreen]

I think the 95 team would take this one to the woodshed. Yes improvements in facilities and tail gating have been made since then but I can't think of anything else. Remember 1995 was only the second year of return to 1A football. The NT football program is back to that level or below after 12 years back in 1A.

Fly above is exactly correct; DD based on one excellent recruiting year developed a team that peaked in 2002 and 2003 and has rapidly regressed since that point. DD was much more involved in getting the "big time" job than taking care of NT business.

[Got5onIt]

What we are seeing now is not a result of cycles.  It is a result of poor recruiting during and after the 9-3 season when we lost to Memphis in the NO Bowl.  I remember DD's attitude during that weekend.  He thought he was going to get hired away and lost valuable ground recruiting that year.  What they have done is not capitilized on their success.  They got lazy and thought things would come to them. 

←

Christ, I hope what you're saying isn't true. This is very disappointing if he indeed had this attitude.

[CMJ]

The man had a losing record sir. He was 5-6 or did you forget? He won the freaking SBC not the Big 12. His team didn't even show up against CSU.

If our people were serious about this program Dickey would have 1) never been hired and 2) would have been fired after the 5-6 season. How many coaches get fired with winning records because their schools have a higher standard. Look at this man's record.  His record screams fire me, fire me, fire me.

A wise man would have sent Dickey packing after that 5-6 record.

←

We hadn't made a Bowl game in 40 some odd years. Of course he was gonna be kept after that.

[FirefightnRick]

EagleMan

I was there in '95. I've been there since 1970. The product on the field is no better, period.

Sounded like you meant the overall program to me:

What we face now, after nine years of Dickey ball, will be more difficult to overcome than when we returned to 1A from 1AA in 1994.

Trying to convince anyone that this university is committed to excellence on the football field will be terribly difficult if not completely impossible.

Our people, the decision makers, lack the insight, knowledge, wisdom and yes, integrity needed to make the right decisions.

Without desire there is no motivation. Without motivation there can be no bonafide committment. Without a strong commitment goals mean nothing.

We are where we are on the ladder of success because this is where we chose to be.

Shame on you all who abused your power!

The only one worth keeping is RV.

Bagging on the "decision makers" means to me hitting at RV as well. If you support him then don't slam all that he has done, which is much more than just the game day experience. But he didn't do it completely alone and I think he would the first to tell us this.

And about the "product on the field". In '95 we lost to 1-AA UAB. Overall we ended up with two wins, one being against 1-10 Oregon St and 1-AA Idaho State. Our one win this year against cross town rival SMU was much better than that and we have much more talent to work with today than then. We had a tiny fan base then as well. A near non existent supportive athletic foundation, zero game day experiences, one hell of an ugly color scheme and logo that went no where but to collect dust on store shelves, horrible facilities and zero name recognition from local and state publications. We are as a program much further along now than we were then.

But honestly, I didn't read that last line you posted about RV in my original post because I figured anyone who posted that they don't remember that we returned to 1-A in '95, not in '94, doesn't know what they are talking about. I guess I stand corrected?

Rick

Edited October 2, 2006 by FirefightnRick

[Eagle Man]

EagleMan

Sounded like you meant the overall program to me: 

Bagging on the "decision makers" means to me hitting at RV as well.  If you support him then don't slam all that he has done, which is much more than just the game day experience.    But he didn't do it completely alone and I think he would the first to tell us this.

And about the "product on the field".  In '95 we lost to 1-AA UAB.  Overall we ended up with two wins, one being against 1-10 Oregon St and 1-AA Idaho State.  Our one win this year against cross town rival SMU was much better than that and we have much more talent to work with today than then.  We had a tiny fan base then as well.  A near non existent supportive athletic foundation, zero game day experiences, one hell of an ugly color scheme and logo that went no where but to collect dust on store shelves, horrible facilities and zero name recognition from local and state publications.  We are as a program much further along now than we were then.

But honestly, I didn't read that last line you posted about RV in my original post because I figured anyone who posted that they don't remember that we returned to 1-A in '95, not in '94, doesn't know what they are talking about.  I guess I stand corrected?

Rick

←

My sincere apology Mr. Rick. I forgot you single handedly saved the UNT Athletic program. What was I thinking? Please forgive me.

The decision to return to 1A was made before '95.

"We are a program much further along than we were then". Yeah right, we're much further along too bad it's not proportionate to the advances other schools have made during that same time period.

The SBC, The Missouri Valley, The Southland or the Big West? Pick one.

Color scheme. Which green are you talking about? Oh, you mean the copper and blue.

" Athletics is a window to the University" Where is he?

After nine years, beating SMU is a high point? Lord help us.

As for RV. Yes, he didn't do it alone. I guess I should have been giving you more praise instead. Sorry.

[FirefightnRick]

Eagle Man,Oct 2 2006, 05:23 AM

My sincere apology Mr. Rick. I forgot you single handedly saved the UNT Athletic program. What was I thinking? Please forgive me.

I would accept that apology but no one here, including myself knows who you are?

The decision to return to 1A was made before '95.

No, it was made long before '94, but again you didn't state that.

"We are a program much further along than we were then". Yeah right, we're much further along too bad it's not proportionate to the advances other schools have made during that same time period.

Again, you didn't state comparison's to other programs but instead stated that we are now in worse shape in '06 than in '95. Which isn't true..........AT ALL!

The SBC, The Missouri Valley, The Southland or the Big West? Pick one.

So now your admitting you don't even know which conference we were in prior to the '95 season?

Color scheme. Which green are you talking about? Oh, you mean the copper and blue.

Now your catching on.

" Athletics is a window to the University" Where is he?

I'm guessing you know who he is, right? He as in Dr. Pohl? Last I heard he's interviewing for other jobs and was a finalist for the Arkansas State position. But like RV, Dr. Pohl didn't accomplish everything he was able to do alone. But then again, you knew that. Dr. Bataille has been here 3 months. Give her somewhat of a chance before you right her off as you have done RV and his staff, our fan base, donors, supporters and corporate sponsors and all their accomplishments thus far these past several years.

After nine years, beating SMU is a high point? Lord help us.

No one said it was a high point but it certainly doesn't hurt for future recruiting, that's for sure. I for one expected it, as did Dr. Bataille and everyone else I spoke to who were in supportive attendence in Austin on September 2nd.

As for RV. Yes, he didn't do it alone.

That's the spirit.

Rick

[Eagle Man]

Eagle Man,Oct 2 2006, 05:23 AM

I would accept that apology but no one here, including myself knows who you are?

No, it was made long before '94, but again you didn't state that.

Again, you didn't state comparison's to other programs but instead stated that we are now in worse shape in '06 than in '95.  Which isn't true..........AT ALL!

So now your admitting you don't even know which conference we were in prior to the '95 season?

Now your catching on.

I'm guessing you know who he is, right?  He as in Dr. Pohl?  Last I heard he's interviewing for other jobs and was a finalist for the Arkansas State position.  But like RV, Dr. Pohl didn't accomplish everything he was able to do alone.  But then again, you knew that.  Dr. Bataille has been here 3 months.  Give her somewhat of a chance before you right her off as you have done RV and his staff, our fan base, donors, supporters and corporate sponsors and all their accomplishments thus far these past several years.

No one said it was a high point but it certainly doesn't hurt for future recruiting, that's for sure.  I for one expected it, as did Dr. Bataille and everyone else I spoke to who were in supportive attendence in Austin on September 2nd.

That's the spirit. 

Rick

←

Rick, don't let your pride trip ya.

[rcade]

Rick, don't let your pride trip ya.

←

At what point are you going to stop digging that hole for yourself, Eagle Man? You're insulting one of the best and most active UNT fans for 20 years running.

If you are planning on hanging around GoMeanGreen.Com, apologize for being such a tool and avoid being known as "that newbie who ripped FFR" for the rest of your time here.

[FirefightnRick]

Rick, don't let your pride trip ya.

←

What? Don't let my pride trip me? If I'm wrong then point it out? I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong? Prove me wrong? How are thing worse off now than in '95?

Rick

[Eagle Man]

What?  Don't let my pride trip me?  If I'm wrong then point it out?  I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong?  Prove me wrong?  How are thing worse off now than in '95?

Rick

←

Rick, read my original post again, carefully. Read the second paragraph.

Then read your posts. Wasn't this really all about you.

[DeepGreen]

No one said it was a high point but it certainly doesn't hurt for future recruiting, that's for sure.

←

Rick, not trying to get into this foray, but with regards to the win over SMU and future recruiting, I doubt that victory will make one iota of difference in DD's recruiting. Heck, if four conference champions and four appearances in the NO Bowl on national TV didn't land us solid recruits like we thought, then that little win over SMU sure won't.

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

Rick, read my original post again, carefully. Read the second paragraph.

Then read your posts. Wasn't this really all about you.

←

Eagle Man, I share some of your sense of disappointment, but you are SO barking up the wrong tree that really you should just feel embarrassed.

Now back to your original complaint, I think you are overreacting. There are many endearing qualities of North Texas, or we would not be on here anguishing about the areas that can use improvement. Those endearing qualities are the result of a vision for the school that is, to say the least, not entirely consistent with your vision. On the other hand, your vision doesn't really matter unless certain people share it. I think you would do better, rather than to impugn peoples' integrity, to instead clearly articulate your vision and how a successful football program would fit into it. Hopefully you will do so in a convincing manner.

[Arkstfan]

Rick, not trying to get into this foray, but with regards to the win over SMU and future recruiting, I doubt that victory will make one iota of difference in DD's recruiting.  Heck, if four conference champions and four appearances in the NO Bowl on national TV didn't land us solid recruits like we thought, then that little win over SMU sure won't.

←

I went back and looked at the oldest Sagarin rating available at USA Today. As of right now UNT is rated 1 point worse than at the end of Dickey's first season.

MTSU is rated 20 points higher.

ASU 14 points higher.

Troy is 8 points higher.

ULL is 7 points higher.

ULM is down 7 points.

FIU and FAU were still several years away from announcing their intention to add football.

UNT has had something to sell the past few years, the evidence indicates that either the sales didn't get closed or the sales pitch was made to the wrong people.