NT at the crossroads

Hunter Green · October 1, 2006

I was reflecting on FFR's post earlier, and yes, I do remember those players and games. Believe me, folks, we have seen the best NT has to offer from 2001 - 2004 and it will be a long time before we see it again. I seriously believe Darryl and his staff will be gone after seven more games. I hope the NT administration will get serious this time about hiring a SERIOUS candidate who is an up-and-comer assistant or OC from a BIG TIME program. If not, NT athletics will forever wallow at the bottom of the college football barrel for a long, long time.

I stated in an earlier post that I think Darryls illness has taken a toll on him and I sincerely wish the best for him. It's sad to see how far he and this program has sunk in just two short years, but this a badly coached, bad football team that I don't see getting any better as the year goes on.

It's funny to see how smu has turned their season around so far. Their players and coaches have rallied behind each other and the progress is notible. We on the other hand are sinking to the bottom of the Sunbelt.

Personally, I'd like to see us go after Todd Dodge @ Southlake. I have no doubt he could recruite some serious talent in here in a short amount of time. Are there any other name candidates from the college ranks we could have a shot at?

ForneyGreen · October 1, 2006

I stated in an earlier post that I think Darryls illness has taken a toll on him and I sincerely wish the best for him. It's sad to see how far he and this program has sunk in just two short years, but this a badly coached, bad football team that I don't see getting any better as the year goes on.
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If Dickey is too sick to coach, then why doesn't he step down or at least step aside for a while? We have not even been competitive at all the last 3 games. This is just becoming so ridiculous. Our offense is probably the worst in the nation.

I've really tried to support Dickey and RF through all of the humiliating non-conference losses, and I've appreciated their efforts toward conference championships. But I really think that whatever little bit of magic they had is long gone. I would hate to see us play a good I-AA team because I think we'd get whipped at this point.

Guys, we really need to take back our program - I fear that it is in a lot of trouble.

Eagle-96 · October 1, 2006

Personally, I'd like to see us go after Todd Dodge @ Southlake. I have no doubt he could recruite some serious talent in here in a short amount of time. Are there any other name candidates from the college ranks we could have a shot at?
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Let's see. Coach at one of the top high school programs in the nation where he is fast becoming a legend vs. coaching at at college that has an athletic facitlities that are worse than 3/4ths of the teams he coaches against.

Dodge would be an idiot to leave a job that he will have until he dies to take a job where he will last five if he is lucky.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 1, 2006

Personally, I'd like to see us go after Todd Dodge @ Southlake. I have no doubt he could recruite some serious talent in here in a short amount of time. Are there any other name candidates from the college ranks we could have a shot at?
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We can go after Dodge, but he won't leave Southlake until his son graduates, and he is Junior this year. I think he will leave Southlake and move into the college ranks, but unfortunately, I don't think it will be for a couple of years.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 1, 2006

Let's see. Coach at one of the top high school programs in the nation where he is fast becoming a legend vs. coaching at at college that has an athletic facitlities that are worse than 3/4ths of the teams he coaches against.
Dodge would be an idiot to leave a job that he will have until he dies to take a job where he will last five if he is lucky.
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One look at what and how Gus Mahlazan is doing at Arkansas with their offense, and you will have a better idea of what Dodge can do in the college ranks.

Got5onIt · October 1, 2006

I say NT go after an OC or DC from a big time university. How about the OC for Clemson. Clemson looks outstanding so far this year.

Seriously, we are in the heart of talent filled High School football. What coach would turn down a chance at coaching at a Division 1 university in Texas?? We offer a helluva lot more than people give us credit for.

football fan · October 1, 2006

We offer a helluva lot more than people give us credit for.
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Amen to that brutha!

stebo · October 1, 2006

Bring back DeLoach

October 1, 2006

Don't go into this search with preconceived notions. Go after the best coach of all that apply. Get someone that truly wants to be here. Don't limit it to coordinators at Big Time U. Consider highly successful coaches at smaller classification schools. Even a high school coach, if he's the caliber of Todd Dodge (however, I doubt that Dodge would take it if offered). Consider retired coaches who were successful, if they're interested in re-igniting their career. R.C. Slocum immediately comes to mind. Maybe even a defrocked coach if they kept their team away from sanctions...Neuheusel, Barnett types. Sometimes you can be surprised at who applies. FFR often remembers that we once turned down Navy coach Paul Johnson.

Or, if we don't want to go through a laborious process, we could have former AD Helwig pick one for us.

tonyhuntoon · October 1, 2006

NT went the HS ranks before. It didn't work out. Coaching HS football is ALOT different from the coaching ranks. You just don't run out and grap a HS coach. It won't work. REPEAT AFTER ME, IT WON'T WORK!

SilverEagle · October 1, 2006

Don't go into this search with preconceived notions. Go after the best coach of all that apply. Get someone that truly wants to be here. Don't limit it to coordinators at Big Time U. Consider highly successful coaches at smaller classification schools. Even a high school coach, if he's the caliber of Todd Dodge (however, I doubt that Dodge would take it if offered). Consider retired coaches who were successful, if they're interested in re-igniting their career. R.C. Slocum immediately comes to mind. Maybe even a defrocked coach if they kept their team away from sanctions...Neuheusel, Barnett types. Sometimes you can be surprised at who applies. FFR often remembers that we once turned down Navy coach Paul Johnson.
Or, if we don't want to go through a laborious process, we could have former AD Helwig pick one for us.
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I would prefer that you pick one for us Jack. If anyone has observed most of the good and bad in coaching at North Texas it's certainly you. There are arguments out there for just about any situation.

High School coaches moving up to D-1 head coaching jobs. I can't remember a situation where that has ever worked. Even the former Stephenville coach (Art Briles) at Houston spent three years as an assistant at TT before taking the head coaching job at Houston.

Retired/defrocked coaches.

If you put Hayden Fry in the "defrocked" catagory, then we are 1 & 1 on this situation. Hayden worked out great, but Bob Tyler was a disaster. R.C. Slocum sounds intriqueing, AND he has the advantage of knowing what he would be getting himself into.......... AND knowing immediately what to work on.

Get someone that truly wants to be here

I like this idea best of all.

In the interview, I would ask him to give me a realistic plan, other than the standard response of "winning games" (isn't that always a given?) for getting the student body, alumni, and community excited again about North Texas football.

I would ask him to name at least 15 Texas HS coaches that he could get on the phone at that moment who would give him a lead on some hot prospects.

I would ask him to list every player that he recruited and developed as a college coach, that no other college seemed to want, but who was successful playing for him.

I would then ask him to give me an extemporaneous speech/presentation, pretending that he is in front of a group of alumni and students, talking about how he is going to turn things around.

PlummMeanGreen · October 1, 2006

Don't go into this search with preconceived notions. Go after the best coach of all that apply. Get someone that truly wants to be here. Don't limit it to coordinators at Big Time U. Consider highly successful coaches at smaller classification schools. Even a high school coach, if he's the caliber of Todd Dodge (however, I doubt that Dodge would take it if offered). Consider retired coaches who were successful, if they're interested in re-igniting their career. R.C. Slocum immediately comes to mind. Maybe even a defrocked coach if they kept their team away from sanctions...Neuheusel, Barnett types. Sometimes you can be surprised at who applies. FFR often remembers that we once turned down Navy coach Paul Johnson.
Or, if we don't want to go through a laborious process, we could have former AD Helwig pick one for us.
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First of all, I believe we would all wish for DD good health and after looking at a re-run of the game last night, I almost fell out of my bed in shock when a camera first panned in on him for a close-up shot. All our prayers and good thoughts for Coach Dickey's health and thats whether he is in Denton or not. Any of us can lose a job (and some of us, perhaps, have at one time or another) but losing one's health is in a completely different part of what I think we'd agree is the really serious part of our life.

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Many on this board (if you are not already) should listen to GrayEagleOne and what he has to post), because he has over 5 or 6 decades of astute observations and following of Mean Green football and IMHO knows what needs to happen at the University of North Texas more than just about anyone on this board (and those presently serving or employed at our main campus as well).

To those that it took the results of last night's game to come to your own personal conclusion concerning the direction of MG football I will say this: My own "Road to Damascus" experience (as I've posted B4) came after the Tulsa and La Tech games of last season.

I would like to say "welcome" to some of you but I don't even like the feeling that saying that would give me because most of the last year, most of us who have chosen the method we have to not validate any semblance of the direction of NT athletics just really don't like the kinds of feelings or emotions that that has given us. It's somewhat like the same kind of feelings one might have if they were to (for whatever reason) distance themselves from his or her's own biological family. At what point would anyone ever feel good about doing that?

Some of you had already made your feelings known about our direction long before I did; that is, long before I crossed that river of no-return last Fall because as some of you might recall, there was a time that I, too, supported DD and keyboarded many posts on his behalf (like many of you did up until last night). I was saying in many of those posts to just give him more time to elevate this football program.

We may all have to face the cold harsh fact or realization that all of DD's contract extensions may prevent anything from happening with his job even after this season no matter what the scenario. Even if UNT leaders have to release DD from his present contract, what they will most likely have to come up with for a "buy out" may prevent us from ever getting the caliber of coach (such as the Sloan, Barnett, Neuheisel-types that I highlighted in GrayEagleOne's above post) as the kind of coach that can help a football program like UNT cut thru the non BCS/SBC/Bottom10 co-existance very fast. One alum already has contacted me only to remind me that it has taken UNT 31 years to where this football program could go from beating the University of Tennessee to losing to Middle Tennessee State University. I told him: "Thanks for that reminder."

BUT...........IMO..............if there were to become an opening for the UNT head football coaching job, what many really feel we don't need to do at UNT (if at all preventable) is "NOT" hire a "project coach" with no prior experience or semblance of success at the NCAA D1-A level, preferabbly as a head football coach.

If we can do as UTEP and Idaho and luck into a "name" that just happens to be available for a new job when we come to a point of needing a new hire, that would be tremendous since we lucked into such a situation in December of 1972 after SMU fired Fry the previous month with a 7 and 4 record. SMU just saw the need for a new direction of their own football program. They just did a poor job of getting someone who would give them that new direction.

We all know the results of what the heavy recruting of JUCO's and project players who would "hopefully" develop now has this football program and that even more a reason that UNT just cannot afford to hire a "project" head football coach because it may take a few years to show many of our constituency that we (in deed) made yet another mistake and FWIW, fellow Exes: How many more mistakes can this non BCS/NCAA D1-A program in Denton, Texas, America, afford to make by making the wrong hire that would have the ability to elevate our football program?

Edited October 1, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

ntsumck · October 1, 2006

We need a coach that can take us to the next level. We have more to offer than most think. Hell if we could just recruit the metroplex we could play with most people.

DD and his staff (RF) have not signed anyone from DISD in at least 2 years and we have not signed many top 100's of the metroplex much less the state.

DD and his staff have the give up when it comes to recruiting. If DD wants to run the ball so damn much, why doesn't he go out and get big lineman??

I could go on, but until we recruit the metroplex better we will not improve. No matter who coaches this team.

PlummMeanGreen · October 1, 2006

We need a coach that can take us to the next level. We have more to offer than most think. Hell if we could just recruit the metroplex we could play with most people.
DD and his staff (RF) have not signed anyone from DISD in at least 2 years and we have not signed many top 100's of the metroplex much less the state.
DD and his staff have the give up when it comes to recruiting. If DD wants to run the ball so damn much, why doesn't he go out and get big lineman??
I could go on, but until we recruit the metroplex better we will not improve. No matter who coaches this team.

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Agree...

I feel we we are all witnessing the waste of a top talent rarely seen at UNT with Super Jamario Thomas because there are few holes for him to run through.

Marty · October 1, 2006

I recently heard an interview with Slocum, he's very interested in getting back into the coaching ranks.

Another interesting name who's available: Joe Avezzano.

Got5onIt · October 1, 2006

I recently heard an interview with Slocum, he's very interested in getting back into the coaching ranks.
Another interesting name who's available: Joe Avezzano.
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This is who I want to head NT:

user posted image

Rob Spence is in his second year as Clemson's offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. He was the architect of one of the most improved offenses in Clemson history in his first season. The 2005 Tigers improved 89 yards per game in total offense over 2004, the fourth-biggest jump in Tiger history and the eighth-best improvement among Division I teams.

His balanced approach brought Clemson to a #2 overall mark in total offense in the ACC in 2005. The Tigers were the only school in the conference to rank in the top four in both rushing offense and passing offense. That was achieved in an ACC that had 10 defensive players taken in the first round of the NFL draft, an all-time record for any conference.

PlummMeanGreen · October 1, 2006

This is who I want to head NT:
Rob Spence is in his second year as Clemson's offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. He was the architect of one of the most improved offenses in Clemson history in his first season. The 2005 Tigers improved 89 yards per game in total offense over 2004, the fourth-biggest jump in Tiger history and the eighth-best improvement among Division I teams.
His balanced approach brought Clemson to a #2 overall mark in total offense in the ACC in 2005. The Tigers were the only school in the conference to rank in the top four in both rushing offense and passing offense. That was achieved in an ACC that had 10 defensive players taken in the first round of the NFL draft, an all-time record for any conference.
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If there was a job opening at UNT in a few weeks:

There will certainly be many names kicked around.

I'm sure Coach Spence has a bright future, Got5onit, but would his coming to the Lone Star State help his career and help the Mean Green get into the homes of real, bonafide blue chip Texas HS football players as an R.C. Slocum (or someone with Texas recruiting ties) would as UNT head football coach? R. C. would have the name ID going for him although I was never too wild about his offense at TAMU which could remind some of what we run now with our present "less than creative" offense.

This time around, we cannot allow our leaders to even hint to us that they can low brow us into thinking we are not worthy of something better or that we cannot do what UTEP and Idaho did when they made their own coaching changes to something different than they had ever had. At UNT, at least we've been there (high profile hire) and done that and some of us who were NT students/MG fans from that era still cannot keep our mouths shut as to what we witnessed back in that era that made a lasting impression.

Another top choice (probably my favorite because of his national name ID) would be Rick Neuheisel which would give a school like UNT a chance to (finally) recruit a blue chip QB since even Troy Aichman gives Coach Neuheisel much credit for his own development as a college QB. Hey folks! If the freakin' Idaho Vandals can get a Dennis Erickson as their head football coach, can't UNT talk to a Rick Neuheisel about a possible future opening?

IMO.................shooting for the moon and hitting the barn in the area of higher profile hirings at many non-BCS schools will still give them something better than what they have now (and a brighter future as well). But............that is just my .02 on what I've seen happen at other similar outposts as UNT.

Edited October 2, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

flyonthewall · October 2, 2006

Please for the love of god give up on R.C. Slocum.

KingDL1 · October 2, 2006

Bring back DeLoach
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Amen Gary DeLoach would be a great place to start.

Maybe ask Hayden Fry who he thinks would be a good candidate.

PlummMeanGreen · October 2, 2006

Please for the love of god give up on R.C. Slocum.
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He was mentioned by another poster or 2 in recent weeks and it was an intriguing thought...although, I think R.C. was re-assigned at TAMU and probably makes more in that job than DD makes as a head football coach at UNT (would be my guess).

Here is our illustrious list of coaching hires post-Hayden Fry:

Jerry Moore: Was hired at NT with our being told he had been the offensive coordinator at Nebraska when (in fact) he was only the receiver's coach. Maybe a bit of deception from our leaders even as far back as then? Texas Tech saw in Jerry Moore what few of our biggest fans did. In only a 2 year career in Denton, he was .500 in W/L's at and many UNT head football coaches who would follow Fry/Moore thought they had to just have a little bit of success at UNT to get their own Big Time job. How totally untrue that theory would become.

Bob Tyler: What can you say other than we played a couple games in the Cotton Bowl during the State Fair and we all got to meet some Deep Southern fried comedian named Elmer Phud-Pucker (during a post game concert that featured T.G. Sheppard among others). Here's hoping that Elmer doesn't apply for the UNT job post-DD because he would probably get an interview over R.C. Slocum.

Corky Nelson: Let's all say "ROLLER COASTER RIDE" in unison. In all fairness, Corky never complained about our lack of football facilites or the gross negligence of those we did have.

Dennis Parker: All you who like Texas HS football success stories here is one that was not a success at the Leading University of the Metroplex. UNT and Parker was never a good marriage almost from the git-go.

Matt Simon: 1994 was a special season for many of us with much unity among the troops to buy season tickets and show up en mass at Fouts Field (which we did) to meet the attendance criteria that got us back into NCAA D1-A; Simon saw early on that he would be another NT coach post-Fry era that would not follow the "Fry Tradition" of winning a few top games as UNT coach and then getting a Big 10 type job. Helwig's scheduling drove Simon crazy. He really lost it toward the end of his career at UNT and had many worried that he'd truly had a nervous breakdown.

Darrell Dickey: Was on a very short list of coaching candidates with only one name on that list--namely his. DD's was probably the quickest hiring coup in NCAA history, but with not one from UNT (or the NT Exes or Denton civic leadership) having any semblance of say whatsoever. DD was destined to never be able to win the kind of games that would get him to the next level of NCAA D1-A as a head football coach. He and his staff really did seem to give up on recruiting following a 9 & 3 season that did not get them to a Big 12-type job and now has us sucking wind in the lowest rated NCAA D1-A league of them all.

Next Head Football Coach At UNT? Depends on who really has the major influence on who hires the next UNT head football coach, now doesn't it? Want to get depressed? Then just think about those who just kept sending up those extended contract proposals for all those under .500 varsity coaches at UNT and then think about all those who just kept on rubber-stamping them as the ones who will hire our next head football coach at UNT. So does anyone prefer an R.C. Slocum-type hire over some Deep Southern fried hayseed from Yazoo City, MS. who wouldn't know that if your going to have a band in Texas, you have to have a fiddle in the band? Nor would they know any Texas HS football coaches who could help our cause to some extent.

BUT HOPE OF ALL HOPE WOULD BE THIS SCENARIO: Maybe some UNT official on our campus will do like some official at UTEP and Idaho did and say: What we've been doing the last 20 plus years hasn't been working gang so----------LETS TRY SOMETHING TOTALLY OUTSIDE OUR USUAL BOX IN OUR NEXT HIRING OF A HEAD FOOTBALL COACH, OK?

Edited October 2, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

Cr1028 · October 2, 2006

BUT HOPE OF ALL HOPE WOULD BE THIS SCENARIO: Maybe some UNT official on our campus will do like some official at UTEP and Idaho did and say: What we've been doing the last 20 plus years hasn't been working gang so----------LETS TRY SOMETHING TOTALLY OUTSIDE OUR USUAL BOX IN OUR NEXT HIRING OF A HEAD FOOTBALL COACH, OK?
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I like your ideas. You're a smart man.

stebo · October 2, 2006

You know who REALLY wants back into coaching? So much that he would probably be willing to work for less then Dickey? How about Jerry Glanville. He tried to get the NMSU position a couple of years ago but they went with the SE LA guy instead. I remember reading about it; I think that their starting pay was about half of Dickey's pay - somewhere around $115K before incentives.

The problem with hiring a new coach isn't neccesarily buying out DD's contract. We could probably take that hit. The problem is hsving to buy out ALL of the contracts (including Flanny's). Any new coach will want to assemble his own staff. Dickey's staff is pretty shored up until next year. So we would have to cough up the money the way that Arkansas State did - buy out the coach and the entire coaching staff. When Roberts showed up in Jonesboro, they rolled out the red carpet for him and half of his staff from NW'ern State. We would need to come up with more then just Dickey's contract - Flanny would have to go, too. The new DC shouls be able to stay in my opinion. If the D wasn't on the field the whole game then they would be quite good. Even during the games where the Time of possesion is close; the D seems to be hanging their heads as each series goes by. I mean, if you are a Defensive player then your job is to get the offensive unit back on the field... but if you know that the O will just turn a good situation into a lousy one then you aren't as pumped up about doing your job.

I would look at three people in order to try and turn this thing around:

Gary DeLoach - we won the 2002 Bowl because of our D, our Offense was just good enough to not screw up what the D was out there doing.

Someone like RC or even Spyke - someone that knows our situation, can appreciate how far we have come (hell, we had 17K show up for a 1-4 team yesterday folks!) They would be able to recruit locally right off the bat... maybe even get some players on those crazy lists that we "don't believe in" (LOL)

Or if you want to go the Plummy route - a coach like Jerry Glanville or even Howard Schnellenburger. I think that Schnelly would actually do really well at NT. He doesn't have the resources at FAU that we have in Denton (scary, I know) - and I think that given a better set of circumstances, Schnelly could make one last run at being a national coach again. Seriously, how much could FAU be really paying him? I bet that we could double it.

edited to add one more: Corky freaking Nelson... and I am dead serious. Corky could do things with this program that would have been simply a fantasy back in his day. He also would be able to truly appreciate the resources that our coaches now have and I think that he would be very humble/thankful to be given another chance.

Edited October 2, 2006 by stebo

Got5onIt · October 2, 2006

You know who REALLY wants back into coaching? So much that he would probably be willing to work for less then Dickey? How about Jerry Glanville. He tried to get the NMSU position a couple of years ago but they went with the SE LA guy instead. I remember reading about it; I think that their starting pay was about half of Dickey's pay - somewhere around $115K before incentives.
The problem with hiring a new coach isn't neccesarily buying out DD's contract. We could probably take that hit. The problem is hsving to buy out ALL of the contracts (including Flanny's). Any new coach will want to assemble his own staff. Dickey's staff is pretty shored up until next year. So we would have to cough up the money the way that Arkansas State did - buy out the coach and the entire coaching staff. When Roberts showed up in Jonesboro, they rolled out the red carpet for him and half of his staff from NW'ern State. We would need to come up with more then just Dickey's contract - Flanny would have to go, too. The new DC shouls be able to stay in my opinion. If the D wasn't on the field the whole game then they would be quite good. Even during the games where the Time of possesion is close; the D seems to be hanging their heads as each series goes by. I mean, if you are a Defensive player then your job is to get the offensive unit back on the field... but if you know that the O will just turn a good situation into a lousy one then you aren't as pumped up about doing your job.
I would look at three people in order to try and turn this thing around:
Gary DeLoach - we won the 2002 Bowl because of our D, our Offense was just good enough to not screw up what the D was out there doing.
Someone like RC or even Spyke - someone that knows our situation, can appreciate how far we have come (hell, we had 17K show up for a 1-4 team yesterday folks!) They would be able to recruit locally right off the bat... maybe even get some players on those crazy lists that we "don't believe in" (LOL)
Or if you want to go the Plummy route - a coach like Jerry Glanville or even Howard Schnellenburger. I think that Schnelly would actually do really well at NT. He doesn't have the resources at FAU that we have in Denton (scary, I know) - and I think that given a better set of circumstances, Schnelly could make one last run at being a national coach again. Seriously, how much could FAU be really paying him? I bet that we could double it.
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The NewMex Aggies lost a very close game to UTEP. Two years ago they would've gotten plastered. It's amazing what a new coach can do for a program.

stebo · October 2, 2006

Let me add one more to the list - a guy that has always spoke very highly of NT during his broadcasts... Jim Donnan.

As for Corky, I did a little research and he last coached in 2004, leading Mary Hardin Baylor to the Div III Natl Championship Game. The comments that I read said that he left coaching due to poor health, so maybe he isn't an option. But maybe he left for personal reasons and is ready to get back in the game now; you never know. Does anyone have updated information on Corky Nelson? Evidently he was part of the staff that not only brought football (and men) to MHB; but had a tremedous amount of success while he was there in the capacity of Defense Coordinator

SilverEagle · October 2, 2006

Let me add one more to the list - a guy that has always spoke very highly of NT during his broadcasts... Jim Donnan.
As for Corky, I did a little research and he last coached in 2004, leading Mary Hardin Baylor to the Div III Natl Championship Game. The comments that I read said that he left coaching due to poor health, so maybe he isn't an option. But maybe he left for personal reasons and is ready to get back in the game now; you never know. Does anyone have updated information on Corky Nelson? Evidently he was part of the staff that not only brought football (and men) to MHB; but had a tremedous amount of success while he was there in the capacity of Defense Coordinator
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He was also assistant head coach there before he retired.