Reality Check

shaft · September 19, 2006

There seems to be alot more negativity on the board at this point in the season than years past, and I can't really figure out why. Sure I have my theories about grown men disenchanted with their lives projecting their fantasy on college football, with a touch of homo-erocticism. But what I really want to know is where do people think this program is heading?

I see a team that doesn't fit in any conference but the SBC.

I see a team that struggles, like every mid-major to stay competitive in a improving conference.

I see a team that is slowly building on conference wins to get OOC wins against regional rivals.

I see a program that is growing its fan base a little each season as it slowly moves towards it goal of better facilities.

Edited September 19, 2006 by shaft

UNTFan23 · September 19, 2006

I see a team that doesn't fit in any conference but the SBC.

I think we'd fit in nicely with CUSA. It will be easy to set up regional rivals, unlike the Sun Belt and WAC. Fans from Houston, Tulsa, and Dallas could all travel to Denton without hopping onto an air plane or driving 10+ hours to get the the closest opponent.

I see a team that struggles, like every mid-major to stay competitive in a improving conference.

When we first enter the Sun Belt, we ruled it with an iron fist. Now, we look like we're lucky to fight our way out of a paper bag. We should have been moving forward but haven't. The real question that must be answered is WHY?

I see a team that is slowly building on conference wins to get OOC wins against regional rivals.

We won 26 straight conference wins. What more can you ask to try to build on for OOC wins. The sad thing is, even with all those wins, we are still winning one OOC game every 2 or 3 years. And when we do lose, we look bad doing it.

I see a program that is growing its fan base a little each season as it slowly moves towards it goal of better facilities.

I have a hard time saying we've grown our fan base. Yeah, we have games that attract a lot of people for one game a season, but it has a tendency to taper off as the season moves on. Homecoming is perhaps the best real indicator of how much the fan base has really grown. Chart the growth based off that game and tell me just how much we've grown.

GrandGreen · September 19, 2006

There seems to be alot more negativity on the board at this point in the season than years past, and I can't really figure out why. Sure I have my theories about grown men disenchanted with their lives projecting their fantasy on college football, with a touch of homo-erocticism. But what I really want to know is where do people think this program is heading?
I see a team that doesn't fit in any conference but the SBC.
I see a team that struggles, like every mid-major to stay competitive in a improving conference.
I see a team that is slowly building on conference wins to get OOC wins against regional rivals.
I see a program that is growing its fan base a little each season as it slowly moves towards it goal of better facilities.
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You are worried about homo-erotic men and your screen name is Shaft? Lifting myself out of my severe depression, I will make a comment or two. My fantasy is to have an athletic program that strives for the best and is not satisfied with the status quo. NT has made some major improvements but it is a moving target as other universities are also moving ahead; unfortunately, a lot of them much faster than NT. Progressing NT athletes is far from an easy job but imo that does not mean that your goals have to be lowered.
If you are satisfied with the progress, that is great. I also like your approach of name calling as a communication technique. I am glad the third grade taught you something.

KingDL1 · September 19, 2006

There seems to be alot more negativity on the board at this point in the season than years past, and I can't really figure out why. Sure I have my theories about grown men disenchanted with their lives projecting their fantasy on college football, with a touch of homo-erocticism. But what I really want to know is where do people think this program is heading?
I see a team that doesn't fit in any conference but the SBC.
I see a team that struggles, like every mid-major to stay competitive in a improving conference.homo-erocticism
I see a team that is slowly building on conference wins to get OOC wins against regional rivals.
I see a program that is growing its fan base a little each season as it slowly moves towards it goal of better facilities.
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You have to be kidding.

Talk about a negative post, to suggest that our progress is acceptable. We have been in the situation many times and never moved forward. And DD is still in the same old place with the same old plays.

This attitude that we are fine where we are is the worst kind of negativity, no high expectations, no measurable progress = a stalled program.

Mean'n'Green07 · September 19, 2006

You have to be kidding.
Talk about a negative post, to suggest that our progress is acceptable. We have been in the situation many times and never moved forward. And DD is still in the same old place with the same old plays.
This attitude that we are fine where we are is the worst kind of negativity, no high expectations, no measurable progress = a stalled program.
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KingDL1, I see the anti-Dickey sign in your signature is back. I guess it's kind of like the epsn bottom 10, if you get a win you're off for a week But in all seriousness, if we lose to akron and get back in the bottom 10 I think I'm gonna have to add something similar.

shaft · September 20, 2006

Why isn't incremental progress acceptable?

We had no progress in our pre-SBC years.

We win conference games build a bit of a following, increase donations and incrementally start to improve our facilities. We win conference games, get more cash and change our schedule from facing OU, Alabama, and Arkansas to playing regional rivals like Baylor, SMU, LA Tech & Tulsa. Next thing you know we start to win some of those games. Looks like progress to me.

Sure it would be sweet to be in CUSA, but they didn't take us. In part because of our facilities, in part because we don't bring much in the way of a other sports, and because we don't deliver a market.

And while you can bitch and moan about how the University should just roll over a build a new stadium, that's not going to happen. So why not accept the fact that we are incrementally making progress.

NT80 · September 20, 2006

You have to be kidding.
Talk about a negative post, to suggest that our progress is acceptable. We have been in the situation many times and never moved forward. And DD is still in the same old place with the same old plays.
This attitude that we are fine where we are is the worst kind of negativity, no high expectations, no measurable progress = a stalled program.
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Good post.

chrisfisher · September 20, 2006

There seems to be alot more negativity on the board at this point in the season than years past, and I can't really figure out why. Sure I have my theories about grown men disenchanted with their lives projecting their fantasy on college football, with a touch of homo-erocticism. But what I really want to know is where do people think this program is heading?
I see a team that doesn't fit in any conference but the SBC.
I see a team that struggles, like every mid-major to stay competitive in a improving conference.
I see a team that is slowly building on conference wins to get OOC wins against regional rivals.
I see a program that is growing its fan base a little each season as it slowly moves towards it goal of better facilities.
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I appreciate what you are trying to do. I like positive thinkers. Glass is half full, right? I think the increased negativity you detect is due to a 2-9 season last year, and fear of a repeat. Would that be progress? Everyone was downright giddy after the SMU win, but returned to gloom & doom after the horrible 2nd Half against Tulsa.... we stand ready to cheer but just need DD to throw us a bone (thought I'd continue the homo-erotic theme for you) every once in while. A win in Akron will work.

gangrene · September 20, 2006

Why isn't incremental progress acceptable?
We had no progress in our pre-SBC years.
We win conference games build a bit of a following, increase donations and incrementally start to improve our facilities. We win conference games, get more cash and change our schedule from facing OU, Alabama, and Arkansas to playing regional rivals like Baylor, SMU, LA Tech & Tulsa. Next thing you know we start to win some of those games. Looks like progress to me.
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WTH is "incremental progress"? We've won what 3 OOC games in the last 5 years? It's true we don't play OU, Alabama and Arkansas this season or next...but I think Texas, LSU and Miami are even more lopsided matchups.

North Texas must dominate the SBC every single year and win more OOC games for this program to be considered to be successfully progressing. Four straight SBC titles were baby steps forward. Last year's 2-9 performance was a big step backwards.

Continue to accept mediocrity and we will never be even a blip on the Top 25 radar.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 20, 2006

Four straight conf. titles, followed by a 2-9 season and an offense that made such strides from that 2-9 season that they scored a total of one more point on Tulsa than last year, and you really have to ask the question of "Where is this program headed?"

UNTFan23 · September 20, 2006

The last time we beat a team that was perceived to be better then us was at the New Orleans Bowl in 2002. Since then, things have gone down hill in terms in playing respectably in OOC games (sans Baylor in 2003) and from the looks of things, we're accelerating.

How's that for progress?

Cr1028 · September 20, 2006

Why isn't incremental progress acceptable?
We had no progress in our pre-SBC years.
We win conference games build a bit of a following, increase donations and incrementally start to improve our facilities. We win conference games, get more cash and change our schedule from facing OU, Alabama, and Arkansas to playing regional rivals like Baylor, SMU, LA Tech & Tulsa. Next thing you know we start to win some of those games. Looks like progress to me.
Sure it would be sweet to be in CUSA, but they didn't take us. In part because of our facilities, in part because we don't bring much in the way of a other sports, and because we don't deliver a market.
And while you can bitch and moan about how the University should just roll over a build a new stadium, that's not going to happen. So why not accept the fact that we are incrementally making progress.
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You're right! We should just drop down to I-AA and make some real progress.

Attention: Playing and beating a worse conference is not a measure of progress.

Edited September 20, 2006 by Cr1028

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

The situation isn't as good as some want to paint it. It isn't as bad as others want to paint it.

If you want to see some positives, all you have to do is glance across I-35 and see the AC, the womens atheltic complex, the practice fields, etc.

At the same time, it doesn't take a cynic to figure out that a repeat of a season like 2005 will mean changes.

untbowler · September 20, 2006

At the same time, it doesn't take a cynic to figure out that a repeat of a season like 2005 will mean changes.
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I sure hope your right.

MeanGreenTeeth · September 20, 2006

The situation isn't as good as some want to paint it. It isn't as bad as others want to paint it.
If you want to see some positives, all you have to do is glance across I-35 and see the AC, the womens atheltic complex, the practice fields, etc.
At the same time, it doesn't take a cynic to figure out that a repeat of a season like 2005 will mean changes.
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Pfffft... Rick V doesn't have what it takes to make changes. We need to recruit an AD who can roll with the punches. Next time we should get a guy who ran a Pizza Hut or a Mr. Gattis instead....

user posted image

good_ken · September 20, 2006

Pfffft... Rick V doesn't have what it takes to make changes. We need to recruit an AD who can roll with the punches. Next time we should get a guy who ran a Pizza Hut or a Mr. Gattis instead....

First: If RV can suceed selling pizzas, then he should have the business skills to survive in anything he tries. He was the most qualified candidate at the time. Would you rather have an assistant AD from a big time pogram to show us how to do things? We tried that, his name is Craig Helwig.

Second: On a macro scale: the program is moving up. Cerebrus is right about all the facilities improvements. This year will be the barometer as to whether the program has stalled out. And I suspec that a stagnation point will not be tolerated.

gangrene · September 21, 2006

If you want to see some positives, all you have to do is glance across I-35 and see the AC, the womens atheltic complex, the practice fields, etc.
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I'm glad that we have the new AC and the women's complex and all but, frankly...I'm sick and tired of being reminded about that when we have that sorry excuse for a college football stadium in plain view of all who drive I-35.

Fouts is embarrassing and it's no wonder we can't get better recruits with that stadium and our bland brand of football. Can someone please tell me again why we didn't save the money used to build the new AC, et. al until we had enough to begin construction on a new football stadium?

good_ken · September 21, 2006

Can someone please tell me again why we didn't save the money used to build the new AC, et. al until we had enough to begin construction on a new football stadium?

Becuase we would have had enough money to only buy half a stadium. Matress Mac donated the last million to outfit the athletic center, its not like there was unused money laying aruond at the end.

e-bone ver2.awesome · September 21, 2006

Can someone please tell me again why we didn't save the money used to build the new AC, et. al until we had enough to begin construction on a new football stadium?
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Are you serious? You really would rather have no AC if we don't have a new football stadium?

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 21, 2006

I'm glad that we have the new AC and the women's complex and all but, frankly...I'm sick and tired of being reminded about that when we have that sorry excuse for a college football stadium in plain view of all who drive I-35.
Fouts is embarrassing and it's no wonder we can't get better recruits with that stadium and our bland brand of football. Can someone please tell me again why we didn't save the money used to build the new AC, et. al until we had enough to begin construction on a new football stadium?
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I wish people would quit this argument...."we don't have a good stadium to get the good recruits"...if that's the case, why is SMU having such a hard time getting the good recruits? That stadium they have it really nice.

Here's a thought Darrell "keep 8 men in the box" Dickey, since you haven't been able to do much with the offense that you have had for your first 9 years, and you can't get a new stadium to recruit better, why don't you go out and hire an OC that will give you a more exciting offense that might in turn attract better players.

gangrene · September 21, 2006

Are you serious? You really would rather have no AC if we don't have a new football stadium?
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Yes, I think we put the cart before the horse. The additional revenue that could be generated from a new stadium would pay for further construction of other facilities IF football is successfully marketed and attendance increases are realized.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 21, 2006

Yes, I think we put the cart before the horse. The additional revenue that could be generated from a new stadium would pay for further construction of other facilities IF football is successfully marketed and attendance increases are realized.
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People might come out for the first year to see the new stadium, but they won't continually do it, for the simple fact that it is such a bad product on the field. And really, the amount that would come to see the new stadium probably would not even be that high - how many on this board, that live in Denton or around Denton have actually been to a game at the new DISD stadium that was built a couple of years ago - I know I haven't.

gangrene · September 21, 2006

I wish people would quit this argument...."we don't have a good stadium to get the good recruits"...if that's the case, why is SMU having such a hard time getting the good recruits? That stadium they have it really nice.
Here's a thought Darrell "keep 8 men in the box" Dickey, since you haven't been able to do much with the offense that you have had for your first 9 years, and you can't get a new stadium to recruit better, why don't you go out and hire an OC that will give you a more exciting offense that might in turn attract better players.
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Obviously, top national recruits are NOT going to come knocking down our doors just because we have a nice, new stadium. SMU had, and still has, problems that a new stadium can not fix. We have many of those same problems. But, when I hear parents of 3A high school players complaining about how bad Fouts is for high school playoff games, that doesn't make me happy. Many high school fields are better than Fouts. How can we expect top recruits to, from their perspective, take a step backwards, and come to UNT? It's all about playing on a progressively bigger stage.

Edited September 21, 2006 by gangrene

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 21, 2006

Obviously, top national recruits are going to come knocking down our doors just because we have a nice, new stadium. SMU had, and still has, problems that a new stadium can not fix. We have many of those same problems. But, when I hear parents of 3A high school players complaining about how bad Fouts is for high school playoff games, that doesn't make me happy. Many high school fields are better than Fouts. How can we expect top recruits to, from their perspective, take a step backwards, and come to UNT? It's all about playing on a progressively bigger stage.
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I am not saying that we won't get some recruits out of it, but over time if you can't produce on the field, it won't help. Winning does the most for getting better recruits and we are seeing the effects of that last and this year. Sure SMU had problems in the past, but if a new stadium made that much of a difference in recruits, you would see it there, reguardless of their past, as that was many, many years ago now.

We can probably drop this idea of a new stadium just like we can drop the idea of a new coach, because at our rate, neither of them are going to happen very soon.

Glad To Be Green · September 21, 2006

The women's facilities and the athletic center were not luxuries or even a chioce versus the stadium. The women's facilities were necessary to meet the plan that Mr. Helwig had laid out for both the NCAA in the certification process and for an OCR report. They were required per a review of our situation by an independent expert in the field. In addition we need to provide our young ladies with the facilities they deserve as Division I athletes. The Athletic Center was the priority I was assigned when I arrived because we had no facilities to recruit to or provide proper strength and medical spaces for our current kids. What we all "want" many times has to be tempered with what we need and the needs have been met. I guess someone may view that as an inability to make a decision. If so it doesn't bother me.

We all want a stadium and not many people can be more frustrated than me and my staff that we had to build basically every facility an athletic department needs (now in place) before we could even address the stadium project. We have to deal with the complaints about sight lines and bathrooms and everything else that is Fouts' Field. But Fouts is not the the only challenge for us. If it was then Tulsa has just as big a challenge and UAB and Akron have worse situations. Southern Miss, Boise State and many others play in substandard facilities but seem to rise to the occassion. Hell TCU plays in a 60 year old stadium that's been painted to look better, but has no luxury boxes or suites and concessions are sold out of auxilary units for the most part like we do. They're in the TOP 15.

It is not my intention in responding to rant and rave and defend myself. I have made and will make the decisions that need to be made about facilities or any other area of the program. Because they don't conincide with the individual wants of everyone doesn't make them wrong. Nobody demanded a new stadium or athletic center or as far as I know any other facility before 2001. In fact nobody donated significnat money for any phase of the athletic program before 2001. Now we expect facility in 6 years. It doesn't happen that way on any campus (sorry, except OK ST).

As we now crank up the stadium process, I hope everyone that is demanding its' construction is just as excited about it going up and willing to depart with the dollars needed to make it happen. Don't expect others to pay for what we want. This is an everybody project and it "will be" completed just like the other facilities have. It will change the way people look at us for sure as the other facilities already have. But it will not fix all of our problems and deficiencies. Attendance didn't generate significant additional revenue even during a four year bowl run and Mean Green Club membership while significantly higher than four years ago still lags far behind where it needs to be. That won't build a stadium and definitely won't generate the necessary revenue to fund other projects. And this doesn't address the other problems that prevent competitive programs. I know that. You know that. And those deficiencies must and will also be remedied.