Growth of a Football Program

Mean'n'Green07 · September 20, 2006

We've got to get a new stadium, and I don't really see the point of a new 30k stadium. I'm sure alot of you and UNT administrators would say why build a 45k stadium if our largest crowd to date is barely 30k?

If we want teams like texas, oklahoma and a&m to sign 2:1 deals with us we need to build a larger stadium (40-45k), something that looks impressive on tv. Playing a few big named teams at home gets students, alumni, and the people of denton interested in the football team. We start recruiting better due to nicer facilities, and as a result, start becoming more competitive in the big games. Pretty soon we're catchign alot of national exposure, selling out the stadium, and getting positive results. This is basically a condensed version of the UL story, and it could be us.

In business, a company will always be willing to take a risk as long as the expected return is substantial enough to offset the risk of failure. No one can guarantee if we build a new stadium we'll have the success that Loiusville has had. But if $50 million could help project us to a top tier university in the national spot light, it's an investment every alumni and employee of the university should support.

Edited September 20, 2006 by Mean'n'Green07

PlummMeanGreen · September 20, 2006

Anyone ever observe in past Dallas Morning News feature stories how many of the mega-churches in Texas and DFW build their new worship centers to seat much more than what their present memberships are? Well, doesn't take a rocket science to understand that these mega-churches build with an expectation that there will be dramatic growth in the neighborhoods in which they construct their new, large and modern facilties.

According to Dr. James Rogers book "The Story of North Texas" he mentions in one of the chapters in his book how some officials on the our campus actually thought a 10,000 seat Super Pit was really too large for 14,000 enrollment NTSU. That group wanted to build a Super Pit that would seat about 6,000.

Well, if that group of small time thinkers on our campus had gotten their way, UNT would have never hosted 3 NCAA Regionals; there would have never been 10,700 show up for an SMU/UNT game back in the mid-1970's and there probably would have been very much difficulty in scheduling Top 10 ranked De Paul and Mark Aguire, Abe Lemmon's UT Longhorns basketbal team and other similar basketball programs to come play in a brand new shoe-box gym that would have seated only about 1,500 more seats than what the Men's Gym capacity was. Thankfully, progressive thinkers on our campus back then got their way as far as the seating capacity of the Super Pit was concerned.

At UNT, we have those on campus who have successfully gotten so many to of our elect to think "small time" and start acting like this is the Denton of 50 years ago and we really don't need to get too out of hand with our projected new football stadium; you know, exactly like those on our campus who wanted a 6,000 seat Super Pit?

If we were to only build a 30,000 seat football stadium we would most likely box in our football program to not have a chance to emulate schools like Louisville, we would "box in" future UNT students and MG fans into another generation or 2 of (basically) what we are getting now with a 30,500 seat Fouts Field.

If we build a small football stadium with all the continued & expected growth for UNT, Denton and Denton County, we would (once again) be showing our short-sightedness and we could kiss off any real opportunities to get UT, TAMU, OU and other Top 25 schools into Denton. What would the selling of 15,000 extra seats in a 45,000 seat football stadium (compared to a 30,000 seat venue) gain for our UNT athletic budget? How about those extra 15,000 wearing burn't orange, maroon/white, crimson/cream, red/black or whatever; anyway, what would such additonal ticket sales do for UNT? Perhaps, provide enough revenue in one OOC game that would would finance one of our minor varsity sports for one academic year?

TCU was able to host OU a few years because they had a large enough stadium to be able to pull off such a schedule with the Sooners. How many of you think OU would come to a brand spanking new 30,000 seat stadium over at Eagle Point Campus?

If we build this new stadium (and I guess the TxDOT's need for I-35 frontage property adjacent to Fouts Field will force us to do so); anyway, build a new stadium acting like we will actually meet the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board's projected future enrollment at UNT of approximately 41-43,000 students.

Edited September 20, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

GrandGreen · September 20, 2006

UL joined the Big East in 2005. The year before they joined, thier athletic budget was 32 million dollars.
At the same time, Oklahoma State, in the Big 12, had an a budget on 35 million.
UL decided it needed to be a BCS school, and then set a plan and spent the money to do so. I really don't see how thier situation is anything like the one the North Texas is in.
Unless, of course, Dr. Bataille is proposing to triple our athletic budget?
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How do you think they got a budget of 35M? Is that not the point, that NT has to improve the resources it works with. I doubt Louisville back when they were a conference mate of NT had a football budget much difference than NT.

Why can't NT decide to be a BCS school and then set a plan and raise and spent the money to do it like you stated that UL did? Why was UL situation any different than the one NT is in? You think their 35 million budget just magically appeared. No they worked for years/decades to upgrade program.

CMJ · September 20, 2006

Their basketball program was their ticket into the Big East(more than FB anyways). Just look at all the schools the BE admitted. Several were BB only - that's a hoops league first and foremost.

However, Louisville had been dumping money into their football squad as well, and as a result quickly improved. And now with the Big East being such a weak FB conference top to bottom - they have a chance to win the league every year. It's basically Louisville, WVU, & everyone else.

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

How do you think they got a budget of 35M?
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A large athletic endowment funded by a historically giving alumni base, corporate sponsorships that were drawn to the fact the UL was the dominant force in the metro area and closely followed by huge areas of people in Kentucky, Indiana and Missouri. And state laws that allows a little more free action between the general fund and the athletic budget than what is allowed in Texas.

Is that not the point, that NT has to improve the resources it works with. I doubt Louisville back when they were a conference mate of NT had a football budget much difference than NT.
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Of course NT has to improve the resources. But we need to look for similiar models. What works for UL isnt going to work for us, a non bcs school in a major metro area dominated by BCS schools and professional sports, dragged down by a histroically apethtic resident base and alumni base. Of course, I don't know how many schools are in such a conundrum.

Why can't NT decide to be a BCS school and then set a plan and raise and spent the money to do it like you stated that UL did? Why was UL situation any different than the one NT is in?
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I think I outlined why UL's situation is different than ours. That doesnt mean we shouldnt have our own plans to drastically improve our situation. My main point is our energy is misplaced. Instead of crying that DD or RF or RV or Slinker or this years scrappy should be replaced, we need to be communicating our desires to the Chancellor, the BOR and the President. They need to know that a large and passinate group of alums want athletic spending to increase, and are willing to increse thier donations if the school commits to improved athletics.

You think their 35 million budget just magically appeared. No they worked for years/decades to upgrade program.
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Exactly, the have put in decades of work that we haven't. It is silly for us now to complain about how UL left us behind when the school obviously out worked us. Want to make it better, let the correct people know:

Chancellor: Lee Jackson chancellor@unt.edu

President: Dr. Gretchen M. Bataille presweb@pres.admin.unt.edu

I am having a hard time finding BOR information, the only contact info I could find was for the new Student Regent: Brittany Adams BrittanyA@unt.edu

So, here is my challenge to you, instead of burning your time by rending your clothes and gnashing your teeth on an internet forum, why not use that time to send a well thought out and written email to the people who can actually make a difference.

Please no "coach X sucks" or "why did we get left behind waaah", use this oppurtunity to state why you think atheltics is important, that you think it has been neglected for too long, and that it is very important to you as a student/alumn to have this rectified.

Lets fix the root problems and not focus in on symptoms.

FirefightnRick · September 20, 2006

, why not use that time to send a well thought out and written email to the people who can actually make a difference.
Please no "coach X sucks" or "why did we get left behind waaah", use this oppurtunity to state why you think atheltics is important, that you think it has been neglected for too long, and that it is very important to you as a student/alumn to have this rectified.
Lets fix the root problems and not focus in on symptoms.
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For me personally I've already done this, but I actually spoke personally to both individuals and the leadership of the BOR about it as well. They all know Rick McKinney's oppinion on my expectations of our athletics and this university, I promise you.

So I'm stuck back at my seat in Fouts watching another pUNT fest wondering why I'm not instead down on the deck drinking it all away?

For me and the Louisville/NT comparison I don't care what their plans were or their money situation or whatever. I simply look at their results on the field and who got them there and how he did it. If their budget was about what our's is, say around $1.4 Million for football would Coach Petrino commit to running the ball come HELL or HIGH WATER? No, of course not.

Rick

ntsumck · September 20, 2006

Did anyone forward the article to Jackson and Ray. Maybe they will get a clue.

GrandGreen · September 20, 2006

A large athletic endowment funded by a historically giving alumni base, corporate sponsorships that were drawn to the fact the UL was the dominant force in the metro area and closely followed by huge areas of people in Kentucky, Indiana and Missouri. And state laws that allows a little more free action between the general fund and the athletic budget than what is allowed in Texas.
Of course NT has to improve the resources. But we need to look for similiar models. What works for UL isnt going to work for us, a non bcs school in a major metro area dominated by BCS schools and professional sports, dragged down by a histroically apethtic resident base and alumni base. Of course, I don't know how many schools are in such a conundrum.
I think I outlined why UL's situation is different than ours. That doesnt mean we shouldnt have our own plans to drastically improve our situation. My main point is our energy is misplaced. Instead of crying that DD or RF or RV or Slinker or this years scrappy should be replaced, we need to be communicating our desires to the Chancellor, the BOR and the President. They need to know that a large and passinate group of alums want athletic spending to increase, and are willing to increse thier donations if the school commits to improved athletics.
Exactly, the have put in decades of work that we haven't. It is silly for us now to complain about how UL left us behind when the school obviously out worked us. Want to make it better, let the correct people know:
Chancellor: Lee Jackson chancellor@unt.edu
President: Dr. Gretchen M. Bataille presweb@pres.admin.unt.edu
I am having a hard time finding BOR information, the only contact info I could find was for the new Student Regent: Brittany Adams BrittanyA@unt.edu
So, here is my challenge to you, instead of burning your time by rending your clothes and gnashing your teeth on an internet forum, why not use that time to send a well thought out and written email to the people who can actually make a difference.
Please no "coach X sucks" or "why did we get left behind waaah", use this oppurtunity to state why you think atheltics is important, that you think it has been neglected for too long, and that it is very important to you as a student/alumn to have this rectified.
Lets fix the root problems and not focus in on symptoms.
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Actually I though a messageboard was a place to exchange ideas and yes, rave and rant if that is what you want to do. And being a contributing fan for over 30 years, I don't think I need your advice on who, when, or how to communicate. Frankly, I see a lot of excuses in the above response. Poor NT does not have a traditional giving fan base, has to compete with pro sports, historical indifference to the athletic program, etc. IMO, this is the type of thinking that has held NT back for decades. I am sure there were masses of people that thought Louisville was crazy to think they could compete with the great Kentucky University and the local fan base only cared about horse racing and basketball.

DeepGreen · September 20, 2006

Actually I though a messageboard was a place to exchange ideas and yes, rave and rant if that is what you want to do. And being a contributing fan for over 30 years, I don't think I need your advice on who, when, or how to communicate. Frankly, I see a lot of excuses in the above response. Poor NT does not have a traditional giving fan base, has to compete with pro sports, historical indifference to the athletic program, etc. IMO, this is the type of thinking that has held NT back for decades. I am sure there were masses of people that thought Louisville was crazy to think they could compete with the great Kentucky University and the local fan base only cared about horse racing and basketball.
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Good post GrandGreen. All I hear about are past excuses. Poor ole NT. No wonder our Endowment is a embarassingly paltry $40 million. NT leaders should be ashamed.

meanrob · September 20, 2006

What i would like to see are some actual ideas that UNT could implement based on our situation, history, and culture.

I think that would be more productive then the pasting of random articles and people going "we should do this".

We are where we are, now what do we do.

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

Actually I though a messageboard was a place to exchange ideas and yes, rave and rant if that is what you want to do. And being a contributing fan for over 30 years, I don't think I need your advice on who, when, or how to communicate. Frankly, I see a lot of excuses in the above response. Poor NT does not have a traditional giving fan base, has to compete with pro sports, historical indifference to the athletic program, etc. IMO, this is the type of thinking that has held NT back for decades. I am sure there were masses of people that thought Louisville was crazy to think they could compete with the great Kentucky University and the local fan base only cared about horse racing and basketball.
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Fine. Keep spinning your wheels.

Guess who can actually fix some of our problems? The BOR. The President. The Chancellor. They are the ones who can actually head this ship in the right direction.

Why don't *we all* take the time it took to type that message and send a one to them?

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

Good post GrandGreen. All I hear about are past excuses. Poor ole NT. No wonder our Endowment is a embarassingly paltry $40 million. NT leaders should be ashamed.
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Should they be ashamed? Have they ever been held liable for allowing the endowment and athletics to be so bad? I hope everyone who reads this thread will take the time to let them know you think this is unacceptable and should be fixed.

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

What i would like to see are some actual ideas that UNT could implement based on our situation, history, and culture.
I think that would be more productive then the pasting of random articles and people going "we should do this".
We are where we are, now what do we do.
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Thank you Rob.

Tailgaiting is great. Having so many people stay outside the stadium during the game is not. To get students in, why not pick random students at each game to be entered into a drawing at year end. The winner of the drawing doesn't pay for tuition next semester. Easy for the university to do.

Alumns could be tempted with something like travelling with the team.

Get those people into the stadium, they may become hooked.

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

I did forget one thing when I was listing the difference between UL and NT.

Apathetic leadership attitude towards athletics.

We need to change that.

Want to make it better, let the correct people know:
Chancellor: Lee Jackson chancellor@unt.edu
President: Dr. Gretchen M. Bataille presweb@pres.admin.unt.edu
I am having a hard time finding BOR information, the only contact info I could find was for the new Student Regent: Brittany Adams BrittanyA@unt.edu
So, here is my challenge to you, instead of burning your time by rending your clothes and gnashing your teeth on an internet forum, why not use that time to send a well thought out and written email to the people who can actually make a difference.
Please no "coach X sucks" or "why did we get left behind waaah", use this oppurtunity to state why you think atheltics is important, that you think it has been neglected for too long, and that it is very important to you as a student/alumn to have this rectified.
Lets fix the root problems and not focus in on symptoms.
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DeepGreen · September 20, 2006

Should they be ashamed? Have they ever been held liable for allowing the endowment and athletics to be so bad? I hope everyone who reads this thread will take the time to let them know you think this is unacceptable and should be fixed.
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Cerebus, who do these people answer to? You, me, Rob, Oldtimer? And emails won't get it either. Too easy to delete without reading them. The best way is the written letter. How about posting the addresses for the BOR, Chancellor, and President for those that won't take the time to look it up.

We have to get the masses involved to make change-athletically speaking and for the endowment.

Hey, I'm just a frustrated fan that sees no end to his frustration.

mad dog · September 20, 2006

So, here is my challenge to you, instead of burning your time by rending your clothes and gnashing your teeth on an internet forum, why not use that time to send a well thought out and written email to the people who can actually make a difference.
Please no "coach X sucks" or "why did we get left behind waaah", use this oppurtunity to state why you think atheltics is important, that you think it has been neglected for too long, and that it is very important to you as a student/alumn to have this rectified.
Lets fix the root problems and not focus in on symptoms.
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Q.F.T.

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

Cerebus, who do these people answer to? You, me, Rob, Oldtimer?
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In the end, the THECB. But its my hope that these people want to serve the student and alumni base, they need to be convinced that this is a problem and needs to be fixed.

And emails won't get it either. Too easy to delete without reading them. The best way is the written letter. How about posting the addresses for the BOR, Chancellor, and President for those that won't take the time to look it up.
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I agree with you on this. A letter is usually worth 10 emails or 5 phone calls, based on the reader knowing how much effort goes into a letter compared to the other two.

I searched the UNT website and was unable to find a mailing address. I have called some people and left messages, as soon as I get those I will post them also. I may even post a template letter, but it would probably be more effective if people wrote thier own mind.

We have to get the masses involved to make change-athletically speaking and for the endowment.
Hey, I'm just a frustrated fan that sees no end to his frustration.
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Agreed. I just think we keep railing at the symptoms of our problem, and not the root cause.

GrandGreen · September 20, 2006

Fine. Keep spinning your wheels.
Guess who can actually fix some of our problems? The BOR. The President. The Chancellor. They are the ones who can actually head this ship in the right direction.
Why don't you take the time it took to type that message and send a one to them?
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Was I not clear enough that I do not want or need your communication advise. If you want to limit the board to those that only agree with you go ahead. The old "go do something that can fix the problem concept" kind of limits the idea of a messageboard does it not? IMO a messageboard is a great place to share opionions and that is what I am doing. If anyone wants to communicate with the BOR, Administation, Coaches, etc., I think most are intelligent enough to do it and don't need this forum to accomplish that task.

To the question, is Louisville a good model to follow. The answer is absolutely as are many other schools that did not settle for mediocrity. Are they or anyone else an exact match; of course not. It is much easy to find reasons to not do something than act.

As far as where should NT go from here, I don't think there are any magic bullets

and I certainly am not going to come up with anything that is not obvious. However, what I would like to see are:

1. A strong statement of support for athletics from the BOR and Administration.

2. A transparent plan to achieve the deserved goals.

3. The hiring of a top notch professional athletic development staff with lofty goals. Pay a lot and expect/demand a lot in return.

4. Termination of any employee who downgrades the University or continues to make statements that are not in the best interest of the University. Nothing more than any business would require.

5. Stop fucus on why NT cannot achieve and focus on the great number of positives of the University.

Cerebus, I am sure you are worried about the time I've spend with this post, and I appreciate the concern. Not only could I have written a lot of emails, I could have also got a good start on mowing the lawn. In truth, we all as NT fans want the program to be the best it can be and in my mind part of the fun of being a fan is the BS that passes as sport talk.

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

Was I not clear enough that I do not want or need your communication advise.

Wow. I love you too. Thanks for being so reasonable.

This may help: Link.

If you want to limit the board to those that only agree with you go ahead.

Yeah... the next time I do that will be the first. There are alot people I don't agree with, as long as they follow the rules I just don't care.

The old "go do something that can fix the problem concept" kind of limits the idea of a messageboard does it not? IMO a messageboard is a great place to share opionions and that is what I am doing.

Who is stopping you? I never even brought up your name.

If anyone wants to communicate with the BOR, Administation, Coaches, etc., I think most are intelligent enough to do it and don't need this forum to accomplish that task.

Well obviously, not enought people are taking the time to do so. Most people are intelligent enough to know regular exercise is good for you, how many actually do it?

But hey, if you want to continue to post witty jibes on me for trying to get people to communicate thier desires to the admins, go ahead.

To the question, is Louisville a good model to follow. The answer is absolutely as are many other schools that did not settle for mediocrity. Are they or anyone else an exact match; of course not. It is much easy to find reasons to not do something than act.

I am trying to get people to act. You are on my case because I am trying to get people to act. The irony.

1. A strong statement of support for athletics from the BOR and Administration.

Totally agree, and I think the best way to tell the admins that we the alums want this is... wait for it... to tell them. So if you don't mind, I am going to continue trying to get people to write them. Please, don't take it as "communication advise" to you, heck, you don't need to read them at all, there is an ignore feature if you want to use it.

2. A transparent plan to achieve the deserved goals.

Agreed. See above.

3. The hiring of a top notch professional athletic development staff with lofty goals. Pay a lot and expect/demand a lot in return.

I agree with this, but we aren't at the pay alot state. We need to either raise that money, or have the admins find out some way that is legal under Texas law to allocate that money. Then they can start the hiring and demanding.

5. Stop fucus on why NT cannot achieve and focus on the great number of positives of the University.

Look, no one knows what the university can achieve or do. I know what I can do, and thats communicate my desires to the admins, I think others should do so also.

Cerebus, I am sure you are worried about the time I've spend with this post, and I appreciate the concern.

You are sure of that? Wow. I think thats called delusion of grandeur but we should really get chrisfisher to rule on that.

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

Phew. What a day. I can't win for losing.

Look, I don't care if you hate me and decide to burn me in effigy, just as long as you are contacting the Administration while you do so.

Want to make it better, let the correct people know:
Chancellor: Lee Jackson chancellor@unt.edu
President: Dr. Gretchen M. Bataille presweb@pres.admin.unt.edu
I am having a hard time finding BOR information, the only contact info I could find was for the new Student Regent: Brittany Adams BrittanyA@unt.edu
So, here is my challenge to you, instead of burning your time by rending your clothes and gnashing your teeth on an internet forum, why not use that time to send a well thought out and written email to the people who can actually make a difference.
Lets fix the root problems and not focus in on symptoms.
←

Please no "coach X sucks" or "why did we get left behind waaah", use this oppurtunity to state why you think atheltics is important, that you think it has been neglected for too long, and that it is very important to you as a student/alumn to have this rectified.
←

I could be wrong, but I think some people are over reacting to what I said because of the above passage.

Just to clarify, I am not arguing about either of those statements, but if you do take the time to write in, and lead it with a complaint about a symptom, then they are either going to dismiss it as whining, or focus on the symptom.

We have been exhibitng symptoms for 30 years, lets fix the underlying illness.

untbowler · September 21, 2006

the fans can do alot and I agree with both Cerebrus and GrandGreen, but also the Athletic Staff should have enough respect to get community involved and from my perspective they are doing little.

Soccer is doing well and averaging 2nd in Sun Belt Attendance, but there is little out there in coverage or advertising outside of this board. I mentioned in the non-football area that UNT is(scheduled according to 5 other schools) hosting a Tennis tournament this weekend, but there is not mention on the website events much less an updated roster or schedule. Yes, football is king but even there little pub has been produced, could that be why only 25K showed up for SMU and not the 30K expected.

As alumni it is not to far fetched to expect the AD and staff to do the little things to get the alumni and community involved. Coaches from all sports should be out promoting but they are not and I won't get into the whole USA Tennis Block Party debacle that happened back in july in what could have been a shining moment for UNT to show off their new facility for 200+ community members and kids.

We can expect more and we should give more but also RV needs to get his staff more involved in the community and actually follow thru on those quarterly meetings he seems to always talk about but never come to bear.

Oh Yeah, GO MEAN GREEN!!! Zip UP the ZIPS!!

PlummMeanGreen · September 21, 2006

Phew. What a day. I can't win for losing.
Look, I don't care if you hate me and decide to burn me in effigy, just as long as you are contacting the Administration while you do so.
I could be wrong, but I think some people are over reacting to what I said because of the above passage.
Just to clarify, I am not arguing about either of those statements, but if you do take the time to write in, and lead it with a complaint about a symptom, then they are either going to dismiss it as whining, or focus on the symptom.
We have been exhibitng symptoms for 30 years, lets fix the underlying illness.
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FWIW, I don't hate anyone who has a degree from UNT or is a Mean Green fan. I don't hate DD, but I do hate Dickey Ball. And I just don't understand his style and the way he chooses to do his public relations via the radio airwaves among other opps he would have to sew good seeds of good will.

HATE? I don't hate anyone and that includes a handful who I've had a few heated posts exchanges with on this forum, either, and I actually hope they don't hate me, either, but I have no control of that. Yet...........hate? Why waste the un-neccessary energy on that particular emotion when it can be channeled into much more positive areas (as well as keep your hypertension down and chances for an ulcer to a bare minimum).

HEY UNT LEADERS! TAKE YOUR TIME BUT HURRY, OK? Many of us older nestors are even getting a bit more panicky' about our concerns to see an advancement of MG football than some of young gun alums because (quite frankly) some of our group are flat out running out of time or health to make a drive to Denton on Game Day.

Still what is so strange is how it only seems like yesterday that many of us were in our 20's and 30's thinking we had plenty of time to watch Mean Green football make a slow and methodical climb back to some semblance of the kind of (lets call it) mild successes of the 1970's albeit they were of a higher profile nature that got many of us hooked into Mean Green football. Such high profile successes that even helped Coach Fry get attention and draw interest from those who would eventually hire him at Iowa of the Big 10.

We thought we would be able to build on top the successes of the late 60's and much of the 70's--but we didn't because we all know what our modus operendi is at UNT when it comes to our athletic program; that is, after we hit a certain plateau of success, we then go into retreat mode. It's almost uncanny how this trend continues at UNT.

We were all just hoping for bigger and better things for Mean Green football as it headed to this new millineum, but an upwardly bound NT football program was just not mean't to be during those young adult years of ours, but many older nestors would most likely now agree that we would be in store for one helluva' roller coaster ride the next 2 decades with Mean Green athletics, specifically football.

But..............there is still time to make happen what I feel we all want to happen no matter what era you attended North Texas. Lets just get started soon, OK?

Peace to all...

Edited September 21, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

GrandGreen · September 21, 2006

Wow. I love you too. Thanks for being so reasonable.
Well , how about a little review. You expressed your belief that UL was not a good model for NT because they did not have all the problems that haunts NT.   I disagreed and presented my view that the model was appropriate and NT has traditionally focused too much on what limitations were present and not on the positives of the University.   Your off the wall rebuttal was why don't you (board readers) communicate this to the decision makers that can actually do something about the problem.
This may help: Link.
Yeah... the next time I do that will be the first. There are alot people I don't agree with, as long as they follow the rules I just don't care.
Based on your responses I think you may care just a little.
Who is stopping you? I never even brought up your name.
Actually, unless you indicate or ortherwise qualify your statements, it can be assumed that you are addressing anyone or everyone on the board. I notice that you did not choose to comment on the pertinent part of the referred to statements. That is to explain your rationale the board should be focused on "fixing the problem"issues instead of the subject discussion.   Most of the board discussions are on fixing problems. Is not the suggestion to concentrate on the positive not the negative in fact a fix the problem post? Fire the coach, go to the game, change offenses, change the schedule and play Woody at QBs are all examples of somebodies' idea of fixing a problem.   I guess your point is that these suggestions should be made directly to the decision makers, and therefore eliminate 90% of the board activity.

Well obviously, not enought people are taking the time to do so. Most people are intelligent enough to know regular exercise is good for you, how many actually do it?
In fact, I support your campaign to communicate to the decision makers. However, your suggestion to do so was offered as an alternate to expressing an opinion on the board. A very different circumstance than what you are now presenting. I agree most people are intelligent enough to know the benefits of regular excercise, however I wonder how many would appreciate you telling them that.
But hey, if you want to continue to post witty jibes on me for trying to get people to communicate thier desires to the admins, go ahead.
I am trying to get people to act. You are on my case because I am trying to get people to act. The irony.
I fail to see any irony. The referred to comment was aimed at your rationale of why NT cannot learn from the UL example not your email campaign.
Totally agree, and I think the best way to tell the admins that we the alums want this is... wait for it... to tell them. So if you don't mind, I am going to continue trying to get people to write them. Please, don't take it as "communication advise" to you, heck, you don't need to read them at all, there is an ignore feature if you want to use it.
Continue, continue and yes you can use that ignore button also if you want to avoid people that do not agree with your view.
Agreed. See above.
I agree with this, but we aren't at the pay alot state. We need to either raise that money, or have the admins find out some way that is legal under Texas law to allocate that money. Then they can start the hiring and demanding.
Kind of chicken and egg agrument don't you think. You can't raise money because you can't aford people who can raise money. It is foolish to scrimp on the development budget. It is a simple equation; do you pay below scale salaries and be happy with $12m being raised in eight years or do you attempt to hire the kind of staff that can jump start a tradition of giving and sponsorship at NT.
Look, no one knows what the university can achieve or do. I know what I can do, and thats communicate my desires to the admins, I think others should do so also.
I think you are underestimating the power of the message board, I have a hunch that most athletic decision makers at NT are well aware of the views expressed. A letter, email, or face to face discussion are obviously a better option and I hope you have success with that approach.
You are sure of that?   Wow. I think thats called delusion of grandeur but we should really get chrisfisher to rule on that.
It is sarcasm not delusion of grandeur.
This has been fun but it's time to end this tome. If you really think I am mad you are way off base, amused is a better description. If you having hit that "ignore" button you can have the last word.

Edited September 21, 2006 by GrandGreen

UNTLifer · September 21, 2006

I won't get into the whole USA Tennis Block Party debacle that happened back in july in what could have been a shining moment for UNT to show off their new facility for 200+ community members and kids.
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Please do. We all love a good train wreck.