WHAT HAPPENDED ALONG THE WAY?

IslandEagle · September 18, 2006

And, don't blame this all on Dickey, because the problem was here long before he showed up.

Scores from the past: (1954- UNT 15, Southern Miss-7, UNT 20, Arizona State-13

(1957), UNT-14, Tulsa-12; (1958): UNT-26, UTEP-8, UNT-12-Brigham Young-6; UNT-8, Tulsa-6, UNT-10, UH-6; UNT-21, Louisville-10; (1959)- UNT-31; UTEP-7, UNT-21, Cincinnati-6, UNT-39-Louisville-7; (1962)-UNT-19, UTEP-6; (1967)-UNT-30, Louisville-28; UNT-21, Colorado State-10; UNT-54, Tulsa-12; (1968) UNT-17, Colorado State-12; UNT-20, Tulsa-17; UNT-36, Louisville-14; (1969) UNT-31, Louisville-13; UNT-42, Tulsa-16.

Where are we in relation to all these schools now? Certainly, our university has grown, but obviously our football program has not kept pace either with the institution nor with teams we used to dominate.

I hope that our new president will push to get us back on track with schools that were our peers.

SilverEagle · September 18, 2006

Well, here's one theory.

North Texas went so long with a "status quo" situation (Odus Mitchell for 21 years) that they didn't have a clue (with the exception of Hayden Fry) about how to hire a new coach. Hayden kind of fell into our laps and I'm not sure who pushed that deal through. But I think that the "old nesters" didn't let that person(s) do the hiring of subsequent coaches after Hayden left. The "old nesters" just weren't ready to be brought up to modern times like Hayden tried to do, and took back the decision making process after he left.

With the exception of Corky Nelson, our coaching hires have reflected the cluelessness of our "old nesters".

It's kind of like when someone bought a Mercedes diesel 25 or 30 years ago, and drove it for about 1/2 million miles. When you get around to replacing it, you experience severe sticker shock. Plus the negotiation process is much different than 25 or 30 years ago. Whereas, someone who has traded cars every four years or so, is much more......realistic.

I don't mind us being a stepping stone for an up and coming coaching prospect who gets hired away from us. I just want the people who identified that coach to be the hiring authority for the subsequent coach(es). After a hiring a series of successful "up and comers", our fan base would be built up enough that we could affort to keep one of the good ones for a while.....but not too long.

gksmith · September 19, 2006

I think we are catching up from being a Div. 1-AA school for most of the 1990's too.

PlummMeanGreen · September 20, 2006

Well, here's one theory.
North Texas went so long with a "status quo" situation (Odus Mitchell for 21 years) that they didn't have a clue (with the exception of Hayden Fry) about how to hire a new coach. Hayden kind of fell into our laps and I'm not sure who pushed that deal through. But I think that the "old nesters" didn't let that person(s) do the hiring of subsequent coaches after Hayden left. The "old nesters" just weren't ready to be brought up to modern times like Hayden tried to do, and took back the decision making process after he left.
With the exception of Corky Nelson, our coaching hires have reflected the cluelessness of our "old nesters".
It's kind of like when someone bought a Mercedes diesel 25 or 30 years ago, and drove it for about 1/2 million miles. When you get around to replacing it, you experience severe sticker shock. Plus the negotiation process is much different than 25 or 30 years ago. Whereas, someone who has traded cars every four years or so, is much more......realistic.
I don't mind us being a stepping stone for an up and coming coaching prospect who gets hired away from us. I just want the people who identified that coach to be the hiring authority for the subsequent coach(es). After a hiring a series of successful "up and comers", our fan base would be built up enough that we could affort to keep one of the good ones for a while.....but not too long.
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Hey Bill good buddy, I hate to be the one who breaks this bit of news to you (unless FFR beat me to it) but guess what? Well...........,uh, we are now "older nestors."

I concur with your theory 100%.

I've read every book (all 2 of them) by Dr. Rogers on North Texas, thru the decades I have spoken to some much older NT nestors than us Baby Boomers about our past history and even had a drink or 2 or 3 with our own Abner Haynes, the late, great Ron Shanklin, etc, etc, etc, talking about this very subject.

......but what Abner told me one day over in Fort Worth what a former NT regent told him was this: "North Texas should have started making its dramatic upgrades toward the real Big Time after we went to the Sun Bowl in 1959," but as we all know our trend at UNT (which we really need to eventually start learning from so that we don't repeat the bad ones)...........

.............anyway, once we hit a certain plateau at NT, ie, the Sun Bowl, the Mean Joe Greene era with all our NFL draft choices from those team & a near win over Frank Broyles Arkansas Razorbacks the year B4 they played DKR's Texas Longhorns in the "Game of the Century;" then the Hayden Fry era when our school officials should have had much more vision for the future (which our leaders seem to never have when it comes to advancing NT athletics); anyway, it is our history to make an impressive big step forward, then go about 2 or 3 big steps backwards.

My #1 problem (and only problem) with Coach Fry was how we kept using Texas Stadium as our Big Time Games "ace in the hole" instead of Hayden (who could sell a comb to a bald-headed man) going out in the Metroplex with all the high rollers he knew whereas he could have been raising monies to build us a new on-campus football stadium in Denton, Texas, America, because we needed a new football stadium as much back then as we do here in 2006. Coach Fry received his first NT pay check 33 years ago, folks.

Back during the Fry era, NT had about 17,000 students, Denton had about 39,000 population and Denton County in the Texas Almanac was considered a rural county with a populatioin of 99,000. Well................with all the growth we've had since Fry left for the Big 10 and not seeing many more new faces at Fouts, one has to wonder what the hell we doing wrong up there at the Top of the Golden Triangle?

I think NT leadership hiring "projects" instead of proven performers who would advance our athletic program has been a problem. With those non-stop hires giving us a roller coaster ride with the Mean Green athletic program which included 12 years being classified as a NCAA D1-AA school has been major barriers for us to overcome.

But FWIW.............I think growth is the biggest endowment UNT has since we know our monetary endowment in the UNT System is very sub-par; but guess what, who we have hired as our fundraisers in the modern era of NCAA has been as much a problem as all the "project' coaches and ancellery athletic staff types we used to see come and go after they produced for us very nominal athletic programs.

Many are amazed (or confused or maybe moreso.............. pissed) as to why those who are on our present athletic staff and therefore, part of the problem with our continued bottom of the barrell annual rankings in most our varsity sports programs as D1-A level athletic program; anyway, whyy do they get to hang around on the UNT payroll as long as they have. And on that sujbect, quite frankly, who is bull-shitting who the most with all that?

We are not a normal NCAA D1-A athletic operation in Denton, folks, and upper echelon NT leaders ought to be ashamed of themselves for rubber-stamping every aspect of this program. Hell, they rubber-stamped a women's BB coach for her 18'th year where our NT athletic spinmasters have stopped putting her overall W/L record in her program's media guide from what one of you told me..

AT UNT.........we are building new facilities that some of you are ready to name after 1 or 2 present NT officials, but some of our elect seem to forget that these are athletic facilities that have to built for UNT for us to even stay in the inter-collegiate athletic business at the level our leaders say they want to continue in.

Many think a fresh new start for all concerned (even most on the NT athletic payroll whereas a fresh start would most likely even benefit them) would be the beginning of our alma mater's athletic program getting back on track to the status we should have been long ago.

Persevering mediocrity with those responsible for it is not the answer in Denton, Texas, America. What part of all this is rocket science or so difficult to understand for our upper echelon of NT leaders whereas they just keep on hanging on to all this as if they were seeing trends of an up and coming athletic program (which rankings among the rest of NCAA D1-A the last 8 years suggest we're not)?

We Can Do Better @ UNT (because we have done better at a level that made us all proud)

Edited September 20, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen