If DD were to get fired?

the green rokemi · September 18, 2006

Dennis Franchonie
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No! Fran is the devil! Don't sell your souls!

pollock · September 18, 2006

(DD will probably or should make the O-line coach and OC scapegoats
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I don't think DD would throw Ramon under the bus. Seems like he could have done that before now if he was going to. Should have, anyway.

As for Etheridge, there may be something to that. Our OL hasn't been the same since he got here. Maybe the talent has just dropped off too much? Inherently hard to tell w/ an OL.

I will say this about the OL.... Dickey always talks about how we run a zone blocking scheme that is hard to master. If it's so damn hard, why the hell are we still doing it?

PlummMeanGreen · September 18, 2006

No! Fran is the devil! Don't sell your souls!
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Dennis Francione has undoubtedly been one of the best builders of football programs that have been down that we've seen in awhile.

BUT..........with all the resources in the college football world at his disposal at Texas A & M University, this particular coaching gig for "Coach Fran" has thus far been a very strange, slow beginning. I know his 3 and 0 start this Fall will help him among many Former Students of TAMU, but they, too, have their own barometer of success (which I think more and more of our own UNT elect are finally joining the rest of us and beginning to recognize success beyond the SBC as being our own barometer--BTW, don't fret late-comers, it took me awhile to see the light, too); but at TAMU, won't it mostly still boil down with what Francione's overall record will be against the Texas Longhorns?

For Those Who Need Even More Proof of UNT's Poor Football Coaches Hiring Record? Dennis Francione was extremely interested in the Mean Green head football coaches job but could not even get an interview with our D1-A college football experts on campus when there was an opening.

I believe Coach Fran's interest for the UNT job was after Corky Nelson was fired during a football season that the Mean Green had a win over **SMU at Fouts Field and Nelson also had an "above" 500 record of 6 & 5 during his swan song season in Denton.

** Some of you have suggested that there were even more butts in seats for that 1990 SMU/UNT game than the one at Fouts Field 2 weeks ago.

Edited September 18, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

Coffee and TV · September 18, 2006

Haven't we tossed around DeLoach's name?

Green Lantern · September 19, 2006

Losing is one thing. Our offense looking like a bad rugby team is another
As far as replacing DD if he were to be fired, which I doubt (DD will probably or should make the O-line coach and OC scapegoats)...if we want to take the next step we should spend the money and hire Slocum. Our team is already geared toward Slocum ball it is just a matter of having the master run it.
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Seconded...We'd need to offer him a pretty good base salary and probably load it with some incentives (ala the Mike Price deal at UTEP), but I couldn't think of a better person to help rejuvinate the program here. He's got great recruiting ties in Texas and would easily be the class of the Sunbelt and one of the best Non-BCS coaches immediately. I would imagine that an inspired hire like this would rejuvinate the fanbase here and that season ticket sales and donations would exponentially increase.

eulesseagle · September 19, 2006

Unfortuantely, IMHO, UNT has Darrell "Keep 8 In The Box" Dickey until his contract runs out.

How much retirement will he have after 11 years??

PlummMeanGreen · September 19, 2006

Unfortuantely, IMHO, UNT has Darrell "Keep 8 In The Box" Dickey until his contract runs out.
How much retirement will he have after 11 years??
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Come on, folks, its not exactly that DD has a million dollar contract for each of the next few seasons for however long our Extended Contracts Gone Wild gang kept handing over to DD all those nice gift wrapped E.C.'s on those pea green tarnished silver platters.

I know academia can sometimes be accused of not being part of the real world, but down-sizing of any department's staff is not a stranger to even colleges and universities, either; even at the University of North Texas. I'd bet that UNT could come up with one of those "bought out" extended years by down-sizing a handful of what seems a top heavy D1-A athletic dept.

So in that regard and IMHO, what UNT also needs to do is down-size off our campus those who have us in a pickle with all this in the first place, ie, those who just kept on approving the padding on of extended years to those who were hardly what any of us could call an "in demand" coaching commodity by other higher profile NCAA athletic programs who might come a-callin'?

I mean come on folks, at this time in our history, are we really in danger of losing any of our multi-year under .500 coaches to any school? Or in the area of recruiting, uh, losing "blue chip" recruits because said UNT varsity coach only has 1 or 2 more years left on his/her contract? Sorry...............but in Denton, Texas, America, we just don't have the same problems of hanging on to coaches as those at other collegiate outposts such as Tuscaloosa, College Station, Lubbock, Corvalis, Stillwater, Manhatten, Waco, etc, etc, etc.

Edited September 19, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

UNT_playmaker · September 19, 2006

man all of you guys are pissing in the wind. RV is not going to fire DD anytime soon, he was ecstatic about the SMU win....

No way No how

PlummMeanGreen · September 19, 2006

Turn on the lights, the parties just beginnning!

Edited September 20, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

PlummMeanGreen · September 20, 2006

Maybe so--maybe not so...
Bobby Ray (best any of us know) does not have a lifetime appointment as chairman of the NT Board of Regents. After all, isn't all this happening now really under his watch? Isn't his leadership enabling (along with his buddy SMU grad/UNT Chancellor Jackson) the UNT System to fight its war$ on way too many fronts (duh? for a system with only $40 million in its endowment (duh, again and will we as UNT stock-holder (alums) continue to see Mr. Ray hang around long enough to continue in his self appointed role as UNT's Co/Athletic Director and to continue his enabling of keeping UNT athletics pregnant and barefoot (so to speak). Hellsbells, I guess the guy equated 4 vacation trips with the Dickey family to the Big Easy as tantamount to being a Top 25 NCAA D1-A football program. Anyone of you who know this guy want to break the news to him that that is not the case?
Also, UNT_playmaker, lets say you (and others who think we have to actually support all this); anyway, if you were the new C.E.O. at the University of North Texas and lets "play-like" that UNT Athletics were actually a money-making proposition, ie, business that was at least trying to break even.
As the new UNT C.E.O. and after you have very closely scrutinized your new company's financial statements or dossiers (which could be any UNT varsity sports media guide save NT lady's soccer) well................as the new C.E.O. what do you feel is your responsibility to all your stockholders (NT Exes/Mean Green fans) of your new company? In fact, what would be your recommendation to each and everyone of your company's stock-holders? Just keep business as usual?
Let's all just wait and see what happens the rest of the season especially at the turnstiles toward season's end and also see how UNT finishes among the rest of the 118 members of NCAA D1-A since we all know by now that SBC success does not translate to Top 50 or even Top 75 rankings.
BUT HOLD IT! YOU'RE STILL THE NEW C.E.O. AT UNT ...............Lets see what kind of business decision you might need to make as the new C.E.O. with those decisions that could (ultimately) even affect your own legacy in Denton once you have left your position some day in the future. . So just what do you do now to appease all your stockholders (and Texas tax-payers since they are also part of the equation) to get this business operating somewhere toward the black again and (perhaps) even help perserve your own job and reputation.
....................................................................
The amazing part to many is how a hardy handful (still) get excited about our school's present athletic operation and standing among all other public universities our size (34,000 at our main campus) in the Lone Star State. And apparently have no problem with our present football operations and continued rankings as a scavenger that annually operates toward the bottom of the NCAA D1-A ocean, ie, our SBC/Bottom 10 group. So can we assume that some just like a Dickey Ball style of football? Whatever.......
Just for kicks, anyone know where UNT stands in Sagarin as compared to the other SBC schools as of this week's rankings.
So.............what part of any of this post is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help us Scrappy?
We have leadership problems at UNT, folks, and their tunnel-visioned support of a bottom-feeder of a UNT athletic program is a pretty good sign that even they are clue-less about the kind of personnel that makes an NCAA D1-A program work as one that becomes a higher profile success than what we've seen for awhile now; in fact, if they run the academics part of UNT the same way they continue to allow UNT Athletics to operate, then we are as UNT stock-holders going to be in a world of hurt for a long, long time at the, uh..........Leading University of the North Texas Metroplex; you know, the one that after 116 years of existance still only has $40 million in its endowment?
NOTE: And all the new minor sports facilities are nice, but aren't we of UNT having to build these as neccessities (rather than luxuries as some seem to suggest) just so we can stay in the inter-collegiate sports business in Denton?
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Sorry, Harry, a shameless bump for a thread (not just this manifesto) that some from our main campus (as well as a few off campus who are not registered GMG.com members) still need to read this thread in its entirety.

You'd be surprised who reads GoMeanGreen.com, folks, I mean you'd really be surprised.

The American Revolution was not begun by many of our ancestors who sat around praising the King of England while he was putting them in debtors prison at the same time. Think about it......

calvin · September 20, 2006

I think my head would explode if I tried to read a post by Plumm..........

PlummMeanGreen · September 20, 2006

I think my head would explode if I tried to read a post by Plumm..........
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Then we're even...........many of our heads will explode if DD Ball is forced on us too much longer.

calvin, just go ahead and keep on supporting your boy if that gives you the warm fuzzies about our school's present, uh, status, we'll all understand (I think).

Have A Nice Day...

UNTLifer · September 20, 2006

You'd be surprised who reads GoMeanGreen.com, folks, I mean you'd really be surprised.
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I read it all the time, and have given up on your posts. PMG, I love your passion, but man you foot has got to hurt from kicking the dead horse.

calvin · September 20, 2006

I support UNT, do I agree with everything DD does, no, but do I support him, yes. All I know is this, I grew up 30 miles from Denton and never cared one bit about UNT athletics ever, until I came to school there in 1998. I never went to a football game and for all I knew the team was terrible and I couldnt even name a player. I went to games in 98 and the team wasnt very good, the atmosphere and attendence was terrible. Since then, the game day atmosphere has changed drastically, the attendence has been better and we have won 4 Conf. Championships and gone to 4 bowl games and have had 2 national rushing champs. I went to the first bowl game and I cant describe that feeling. Now people in this area are figuring out how fun it is to go to Fouts on gamedays. I bet there was 35K people at Fouts at the SMU game. Guess what DD has been the coach through all of that. Like I said do I agree and like everything he does, no but I do support the Mean Green.

UNTLifer · September 20, 2006

DD has done nothing to improve the gameday experience.

35,000 for the SMUt game? Not even close.

Eagle1855 · September 20, 2006

I support UNT, do I agree with everything DD does, no, but do I support him, yes. All I know is this, I grew up 30 miles from Denton and never cared one bit about UNT athletics ever, until I came to school there in 1998. I never went to a football game and for all I knew the team was terrible and I couldnt even name a player. I went to games in 98 and the team wasnt very good, the atmosphere and attendence was terrible. Since then, the game day atmosphere has changed drastically, the attendence has been better and we have won 4 Conf. Championships and gone to 4 bowl games and have had 2 national rushing champs. I went to the first bowl game and I cant describe that feeling. Now people in this area are figuring out how fun it is to go to Fouts on gamedays. I bet there was 35K people at Fouts at the SMU game. Guess what DD has been the coach through all of that. Like I said do I agree and like everything he does, no but I do support the Mean Green.
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There were 25k at the SMU game, Im sure this was just a typo.

Half of C-USA could have ran the 'belt in the opening years.

RV changed gameday atmosphere.

DD's OOC record speaks for itself. If we were in C-USA, he would have been gone 4 years ago.

And I do support NT, with my $$, my attendance, and my time- regardless of the W's and L's, or who is coaching. wins just make it easier

calvin · September 20, 2006

The gameday experience has gotten better during his tenure. Whether it is b/c of him or RV or whoever, I do know that winning helps the gameday experience...............And what I meant by 35K was at Fouts, I didnt necessarily mean attendence. I got to the game late and there were thousands of people in the parking lot. That is what I meant. 25K in the stadium and maybe not 10K outside but I gurantee you there were a lot of people out there.

untgirl04 · September 20, 2006

The gameday experience has gotten better during his tenure. Whether it is b/c of him or RV or whoever, I do know that winning helps the gameday experience...............And what I meant by 35K was at Fouts, I didnt necessarily mean attendence. I got to the game late and there were thousands of people in the parking lot. That is what I meant. 25K in the stadium and maybe not 10K outside but I gurantee you there were a lot of people out there.
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And that's one of the major problems, and where you can contribute part of the problem to DD. Did you ask any of those thousands of people outside Fouts why they weren't at the game? Most likely, they'd say something about how the team isn't very good, or isn't very exciting to watch. And that's something that you can attribute directly to DD.

RV is the reason people even show up at Fouts. DD should give them reasons to come inside.

PlummMeanGreen · September 20, 2006

And you say kick a dead horse. UNTLifer? Isn't Dickey Ball a dead horse? Isn't drawing a smaller crowd for the 2006 SMU game compared to the 1990 NT/SMU game at Fouts Field a dead horse scenario, too?

Also, lets all wait for the last home game this Fall and see just how alive DD Ball is and how many are on board with what they see as the true direction of this program, OK? FWIW and IMHO, our MG football players deserve a better future in MG Country and other schools have proven that all they have to do is tweak their personnel just a bit (or completely across the board in some cases) to insure that their scholarship football players get their better future.

YET.............when the horse is dead (and I say that symbolically, of course) and no more kickin' needs to be done by myself and (BTW) others of you as well and when......................... UNT (possibly) emulates former SBC-mate and WAC member Idaho U (and I can't believe I am even having to say those words for crissakes' ) or even if UNT were to pull a UTEP-type hire in Denton, ie, such as our going out and getting a Rick Neuheisel-type hire (don't laugh, we've done it before) then I will know the horse is dead and NT officials really mean bu$ine$$ in Denton; also, that they see the need for a new direction that will unify (rather than divide) ......then off go the Noconas from this poster's feet.

If any of you regulars keep on reading these epistles (and its been hinted to me that quite a few actually do) then you very well may get frustated, but it is really not you who I intend to post these for in the first place since yall all kind of know where I stand on most any subject that concerns UNT. In the same vein, I think it's also safe to say that I sorta' know where most of you stand, too.

But since other posters have been known to repeat their themes thru the years, too, I hardly feel alone; but (again) my main focus for these posts are for the new lurkers or new readers from outside this board. Some of that group who very well may be reading these for the first time from their campus computers truth be known.

Also, such posts mean't for those who (from what I've been told most reliably) have GoMeanGreen.com monitored by a staff member so that they know what the pulse of GMG.com posters is, which many may admit is a pretty fair barometer of of a cross-section of the Mean Green Nation. And so................I presume what I really have intentions of doing as first of all, an NT graduate and then secondly a 32 year follower of all this is to simply let those who are responsible for rubber-stamping all those extended coaches contracts that many of us truly want to know on what basis they felt the need to do such?

And these extended contract which now has our school in a bit of a financial pickle; that is, because of those who got rewarded with way under .500 W/L records may very well delay our getting on with our athletic future and letting those who may need to be elsewhere get on with theirs. Nevertheless, I feel it important that those who would do the rubber-stamping need to realize that many of us out here really do know the difference between chicken salad and chicken shi& when it comes to the real direction of a college athletic program, specifically football.

..........................................................................

So in closing.......(YES!) after I post one of these marathons and edit most of my spelling and grammatical errors best I can (and of course, those non-stop color codings) ; even I don't want to take the time to read one of these in its entirety. But good gosh! You know how long it takes to type one of those muthas' in the first place?

OK, I will try to work on brevity from now on-----promise.

Edited September 20, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

Cerebus · September 20, 2006

If people want Coach Dickey gone at the end of the season, then people need to understand that a 250K buyout has to be raised.

PlummMeanGreen · September 21, 2006

If people want Coach Dickey gone at the end of the season, then people need to understand that a 250K buyout has to be raised.
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Cerebus, since state of Texas employees are subject to the Public Records Act, can anyone link DD's contract (and all its details) onto GMG.com?

Nevertheless, just how many seasons (with all the added on or extended contracts from the last 8 years) does DD have anyway? Does anyone on campus even know or did they lose count, too? And also don't forget, DD could be re-assigned to another position on campus a la ex UT Coach David McWilliams which was done for him after the 1988 Longhorn football season.

If its just $250,000 and that's all, that is better (and probably more do-able) than say the next 3 or 4 years at $250,000 per year I think most would agree.

Many of us think after this season our overall ranking no matter how we do in the SBC will create within many beyond this board (who have the really big bucks in other words) who may want to pool their resources for such a buyout so UNT can get on with its future and right this collegiate football ship in a upwardly mobile direction once and for all; (assuming we will be smart enough this time around in Denton to do just like those Idaho Vandals or UTEP Miners did and hire at a higher profile which seems to be paying off for both. AND............ FWIW (for what its worth), fellow alums, do we deserve less than an Idaho or a UTEP with Mean Green football?

Until UNT becomes a perennial Top 50 NCAA D1-A football program, is adding extended contracts to any of our UNT varsity coaches at the level we compete combined with the level we are annually ranked (even during the 4 bowl years) really going to affect our recruiting at (also) the level we recruit one way or the other?

FWIW, if UNT means busine$$ with its NCAA D1-A football program; anyway, where there's a (Big) Wheel there is a Way to make things happen even in the area of football coaches extended contract buyouts.

And a shorter post this time around?

Edited September 21, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

SilverEagle · September 21, 2006

Cerebus, since state of Texas employees are subject to the Public Records Act, can anyone link DD's contract (and all its details) onto GMG.com?
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First of all, I'm not joining the discussion about "fire-or-no-fire" DD. But the above statement caused me to wonder about something.

I don't know about football coaches at state Universities, but I do know that state employees, as part of their job descriptions, have a phrase that basically says "you can be assigned to other duties as needed". That means that despite your specific assignment and/or skills, the administrators can assign you to do whatever they want. Which includes being assigned (or re-assigned) to do a job that they know you wouldn't accept and/or stay in.

For instance, your specific job might be to do on-sight inspections of daycare centers and monitor their compliance with licensing standards in the D/FW area. You could be re-assigned to conduct child abuse investigations in the Bonham/Sherman area. That would entail doing a job that you were not currently trained to do, and it would require you to drive, on a daily basis, about 75 or 80 miles away from where you are currently assigned and/or live.

I seem to recall that Matt Simon was assigned other duties when DD was hired. Since coaches regularly use agents to negotiate their contracts these days, I'm wondering if the agents for coaches who are hired at state Universities try to exclude the "and other duties as needed" part of the job description.

Or, it could be that coaches at state Universities no longer have job descriptions in their contracts that have any of the same phrases that state employees have.

Just wondering.

KingDL1 · September 21, 2006

My choice for DD would be Sanitation Engineer.

eulesseagle · September 21, 2006

Firing Coach Dickey is NOT our decision!!

Unfortunately it is up to the BOR's philosophy of athletics at UNT....

There are only two possible options how the BOR approaches athletics:

1. Entertainment only.......then who do they care runs the show.

2. Winning.......................then they would care who runs the show....which has not happened, yet.

As Clayton Williams (once ran for governor of Texas in the 80's) once commented about the fog, "since you can not do anything about it you might as well sit around and enjoy it."

Our discussions should be DIRECTED at the UNT BOR instead of DD/RF/RV.

Until the BOR changes its philosophy of "ATHLETICS IS ENTERTAINMENT" we are stuck in the FOG.

PMG and SE you old hippies once said, "Onward thru the FOG."

LongJim · September 21, 2006

As Clayton Williams (once ran for governor of Texas in the 80's) once commented about the fog, "since you can not do anything about it you might as well sit around and enjoy it."
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Well, I'm not sure that's exactly what he said...but I ain't goin' there.