Bitter Pills of truth regarding DD recruiting.

[Guest JohnDenver]

Recruiting Buzz

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Posted by: Julie | August 8, 2006 08:22 PM

I am an alum of UNT.

In the 70s I reveled in the football success of Hayden Fry and the Mean Green (flying worm logo and all). I was a student during those glory days.

As an alum I followed those teams to Kansas, Oklahoma State, UT Austin, and elsewhere. I watched competitive Mean Green football teams. I, like many others, was so proud of the school’s biggest win ever – the defeat of the University of Tennessee.

But alas, for the past 25 years or so The University of North Texas has had no direction as a football playing university. In and out of conferences; Division 1 to enter the 80s; Division 1-AA through most of the 80s and 90s; and now back to Division 1-A again, but only able to play the “Big Boys” in exchange for a large purse – not because the university has any expectation of winning the games.

To my university – I just don’t care anymore. I am nearing 60 years of age. I expected long before this point in my life to see UNT field competitive football teams, and I don’t mean winning games against the SFAs, Arkansas States, and Troy States, but college football teams of quality. With an enrollment of approximately 33,000 students and sitting in the middle of “The Golden Triangle” it is criminal the direction that this program has taken for the past 30 years.

Sorry UNT but I look elsewhere for an example of college football success.

Posted by: Rhey Nolan | August 9, 2006 07:49 AM

He's right. NT shouldn't worry about a bigger school taking away recruits from a team that won 2 games last year. NT has had problems the last few years in recruiting the DFW area. Then the man covering that ground was Ramon Flannigan. For this year they have divided it up between all the coaches. Hopefully this leads to greater results, as there is no way we should be outdone by the likes of Wyoming, and other Sun-Belt schools in our own backyard. But I do love the fact that yall are actually talking some NT here. Please try to keep it up

[PlummMeanGreen]

Recruiting Buzz

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One never feels good about feeling bad about his/her alma mater or its direction.

I am sure Rhey Nolan did not enjoy writing his feelings for the DMN recruiting blog, but FWIW, they are shared by more than those who will ever care to write them down on any kind of forum. Except for (possibly) the Homecoming game, the SMU game will be the last home game this Fall where there won't be 15,000 or more empty seats. How can one know this? Well. this is what recent tradition and Dickey Ball excitement (and play-calling) should tells us all.

I don't know what it was that was the straw that broke the camel's back for Mr. Nolan in his letter to the DMN blog; but for this alum it only took the biggest home loss in Mean Green football history (versus Tulsa last Fall) to awaken me and make me do some deep soul-searching about something that has been an important part of the recreation and leisure part of my life this time of year and this starting as far back as September, 1973.

Then.............last Fall's drubbing of UNT by La Tech was the final straw that got this Irishman's blood warming up about our real direction and that after 4 bowl games. 4 bowl games that seemed to have no effect (whatsoever) in our recruiting the last 3-4 years compared to the likes of Tulsa University and Louisiana Tech. Don't our big losses to those 2 schools sorta' prove that point?

And if we took the "thrown together" football portion of the SBC away from our football schedule of the last 5 years, then just what would be the present status of Mean Green football now?

Want a comparison as to how Mr. Nolan and others feel? It would be the same feeling some of you would (undoubtedly) have if we were schooled "big time" by SMU this Saturday night. Some of you would begin to feel the same pain and disappointment, except for you young gun alums, you would not have been on the same roller coaster many of us have been with all this as Mr. Nolan describes so effectively in his letter.

Yet.........."IF" that were a loss (close or big) versus the Ponies, after reading many of your posts on this possibility since last Spring on this forum, many of you as I recall reading have already vowed to turn 180 degrees with your own thoughts concerning the direction of Mean Green football under present condtions.

Still for many, this Saturday night's SMU game (win or lose) will only create a short blip on the radar screen of our last 8 years under DD as we compare our football program's standing to the other 112 NCAA D1-A schools (save all the football schools in the SBC, of course, since we are all sorta' "clumped" together most years in season ending polls).

If it is true that you are known by the company you keep, then in the realm of NCAA D1-A football, UNT has been keeping some very questionable company of late (annual Bottom 10 dwellers for the most part) that not one of our present leaders at our main campus in Denton seem to have any semblance of an idea or plan on how to improve our present football social status.

Unfortunately (and regrettably), some of our elect have gotten way too comfortable with this status with their having an almost "why fight city hall" kind of attitude about NT Athletics. AN EXAMPLE OF THIS? One poster just today in another thread suggested that UNT cannot even hire better football personnel than we presently have on our staff. So this is how far this thing has really fallen, NT80, remembering your question asking the question of just how far have we fallen from a post of yours a day or so back.

We Can Do Better.....

Edited September 8, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[buff64]

Let's face it, the problem lies in the fact that when we replaced the turf it was not blue. It has made it much easier to recruit to Boise than Denton.

[meangreanmick]

The answer is very simple and has been pointed out many times on this board. You want a better football, basketball, fill in the blank program, we need more alumni support through attendance and money. What have YOU (not the University and not the Athletic Admin) done to bring more support in?

[bison]

A lot of us spent the 80's and 90's sitting in a lonely stadium, buying season tickets to watch losing gamesl. We support our Univeristy -- just not outright stupidity. I can and will spend my money elsewhere and miss what should be a top notch program because the answer is the alum -- not the coach, not the administration, just the alum. Well OK, when you are one then you will be the problem.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The answer is very simple and has been pointed out many times on this board.  You want a better football, basketball, fill in the blank program, we need more alumni support through attendance and money.    What have YOU (not the University and not the Athletic Admin) done to bring more support in?

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JUMPIN' JEHOSAPHATS!

So do you have a few hours to listen to what many (and many from this very board) have done in volunteer service for our alma mater the last two, three or even four decades? Many times (according to some of you) not even getting a simple "thank you" for your efforts?

Hellsbells, had many NT Exes been paid for many of those voluntary freeby hours (and that was never our intent for one iota of a second), but had that been the case, many of this group of alums would have easily been lifetime members of the Presidents Council several lifetimes over (if being in that group is what rocks your high society and social standing boat) not to even mention the many of those of us who have sent more than a few dozen (X's a hundred in some cases) students to UNT because we chose to take the time to tell the UNT story.

You could give a billion dollars to some egghead-types and they'd squander it with continuous and terrifically bad hirings for their university. Hellsbells, at UNT, one can start with the position of fundraisers (or the lack thereof of effective fundraisers) of the last 2 or so decades in Denton.

After all, at most major universities, isn't it professional fundraisers who are out there on the highways and hedges in Fortune 500 territory (we can all hope) with the responsibility of raising the really Big Bucks for our alma mater? Well, UNT opened for business in 1890 and we still sit on only about $40 or so million dollars for our entire UNT System endowment. Is that any fault of ours? Is that any fault of our army of grUNTs who can only give most years in limited amounts (usually $1,000 and less), and is it our responsbility to bring in the really Big Bucks for UNT since we sorta' all have our own professions that have kept us busy most our adult lives?

QUESTIONABLE HIRINGS AT UNT YA' DON'T SAY? Check any recent NT football and/or basketball (men and women) media guides and make the determination for yourselves if UNT has made more than just its fair share of blunder-ful hirings, ie, some terrifically poor, bad off the wall hirings the last 25 or so years. What you will see statistic-wise with the records of UNT coaches we have now and many from the past will stand out like sore thumb in those UNT media guides. Media guides and the data inside them are like a camera's lens inasmuch as a camera just takes a photo of what it sees--no more and no less.

So.................the plain unadultarated facts all listed in black and white from any NCAA D1-A school's media guides alway tell the real story of what is happening at that school's athletic program MINUS all the P.T Barnum'esque tommyrot. Won/Loss records are one of the prime measuring sticks most "normal" NCAA D1-A schools seem to most alway have at the top of their barometer of success, but now many schools have started adding season long per game attendance averages to simiar barometers of success (or non-success) right along with those wins and losses.

OH BROTHER........AGAIN?.....And once again .........at UNT, we reward multi-year coaches with under .500 records and even what wins they do have are against the sisters of the poor or SBC creampuffs (check out those media guides for further proof on that); anyway, they get rewarded with extended contracts while few NT Exes or Mean Green faithful ever seem to want to challenge such unusual business practices with our real powers that be on campus. But of course, they are the ones rubber-stamping all this for the most part, too.

It seems some NT employees in certain departments on our campus can pretty well do what they damn well please but still want us to help them per$evere their "blankety blanked" (a family board, right?) career-producing mediocrity by asking the masses to throw good money after what any UNT athletic media guide would tell us is pretty damn bad (money).

We Can Do Better...BECAUSE WE HAVE DONE BETTER...

Edited September 8, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[meangreanmick]

OK,

I should have been more specific with my use of "YOU". I dont mean every YOU who posted on this thread or on this board. I mean the YOU who support our Mean Green when they are winning and walk away when they aren't.

I support Mean Green athletics (mostly football because that is what I enjoy most) because I am proud of my University and I will continue to support it forever. If I don't like what is going on, then I will push to get it changed until it gets changed or I die, whichever comes first. Why? Because I support my University. I don't view Mean Green football as an alternative to the Cowboys or other entertainment. That's why every year I do what I can to get more alumni involved that aren't currently involved. When I graduated, I had 1 season ticket and my father in law had 1. We were 1-AA. Now my "group" is 16 plua. I have gotten many muliples of that more aware and somewhat involved in the past few years and I think they will continue to become more involved and supportive. I am guessing there are many other stories just like that from this board. Its nothing personal, but if you view supporting Mean Green as optional (i.e. you have other alternatives), then I probably did mean you.

If you are a diehard like me and you do these things too, man I am glad and I hope I get to meet you if I haven't already. Am I a blind follower? No, but I also wont' quit just becuase changes aren't made as fast as I want, or sometimes ever. I will push to see changes when I think they should be made.

To me a supporter is someone who supports a team when they like how things are going and even for awhile when they aren't happy with how things are going. But if you are truly proud of your University and are there to support it, then you will be there forever.

mickey

[GreenBat]

Just ignore PLUMM, everybody else does. His truly colorful post don't even appear on my computer.

[PlummMeanGreen]

OK,

I should have been more specific with my use of "YOU".  I dont mean every YOU who posted on this thread or on this board.  I mean the YOU who support our Mean Green when they are winning and walk away when they aren't. 

I support Mean Green athletics (mostly football because that is what I enjoy most) because I am proud of my University and I will continue to support it forever.  If I don't like what is going on, then I will push to get it changed until it gets changed or I die, whichever comes first.  Why?  Because I support my University.  I don't view Mean Green football as an alternative to the Cowboys or other entertainment.  That's why every year I do what I can to get more alumni involved that aren't currently involved.  When I graduated, I had 1 season ticket and my father in law had 1.  We were 1-AA.  Now my "group" is 16 plua.  I have gotten many muliples of that more aware and somewhat involved in the past few years and I think they will continue to become more involved and supportive.  I am guessing there are many other stories just like that from this board.  Its nothing personal, but if you view supporting Mean Green as optional (i.e. you have other alternatives), then I probably did mean you.

If you are a diehard like me and you do these things too, man I am glad and I hope I get to meet you if I haven't already.  Am I a blind follower?  No, but I also wont' quit just becuase changes aren't made as fast as I want, or sometimes ever.  I will push to see changes when I think they should be made. 

To me a supporter is someone who supports a team when they like how things are going and even for awhile when they aren't happy with how things are going.  But if you are truly proud of your University and are there to support it, then you will be there forever.

mickey

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meangreenmick, tack on another 10 or so years to your present Mean Green football experience assuming there are (still) few changes with NT football in those next 10 years of following this AND................then get back with us all and let us know if you are still as excited and passionate about what UNT leadership hath wrought to us all with who they hire and would have us $upport, OK?

Leaving our MG football team out of this since they did sign onto all this (which is an admirable feat in itself, that is, unless perhaps in a few cases we were their only choice), but in all fairness and on all their behalf, none of our MG football team members make campus decisions that will affect their UNT experience the next few years on the gridiron whether that be positive or a not so positive experience.

SO DO THOSE WHO DON'T SUPPORT ALL THIS LOW PROFILE'NESS' OF NT FOOTBALL & AN SBC/BOTTOM 10 CO-EXISTANCE HAVE COOTIES? Actually, who is to say that this growing army of collective voices may be the very constituency that finally reaches the collective minds and conscience of our upper echelon of UNT leadership so that they actually look into all this much closer than their past tradition says they will, but this time around, even they start looking at the bottom line of all this, that is, they start "counting the cost" of their past indecisiveness and how this is affecting the UNT community today and then.............. they make all the appropriate changes I'd bet some of this elite group of NT leaders (our UNT Board of Regents toward the top of this list?) wish they would have made quite a while back.

Jim

PS: Will also remind a handful of you that some UNT alums will show their continued passion for our alma mater by continuing their financial gifts or gifts of services in kind to their respective academic major or minor departments instead of NT athletics at this point in time. Hellsbells, I even have a rare book on Texas history I want to donate to the UNT History Dept. OR Willis Library.