college academic rankings

[WIFE2HOT4U]

Texans took college academic rankings as seriously as they took football polls, you might find fans howling for somebody's blood.

U.S. News & World Report released its annual ratings of American colleges today, and Texas came up short against a rival state: Texas had only two schools on the list of top-tier national universities, with just one, Rice, in the top 20.

California, on the other hand, had eight in the top tier, with two -- California Institute of Technology and Stanford University -- in the top 20.

The University of California System, with about 208,000 students, had six schools in the top tier of 51.

Only one member of the University of Texas System made the top 51: The University of Texas at Austin tied with four schools at 47th place, last in the category. Texas A&M University was ranked 60th.

No Texas schools made the list of top liberal-arts colleges.

The annual study, slated to hit newsstands Monday, bases its rankings on factors such as graduation rate, student-faculty ratio, acceptance rate and SAT/ACT scores.

Robert Morse, the magazine's director of data research, said the UC System's selective admissions policies gave it an edge, compared with UT System schools.

"Their financial resources are higher," Morse said, adding that faculty members there are typically better paid.

SAT scores for the students in the middle of the class admitted to Berkeley in 2005 ranged from 1220 to 1450; scores for the same class at UT-Austin ranged from 1110 to 1360, according to the study.

Morse noted that several UC System campuses also have medical schools. Some academics believe that the net effect of having a medical school connected to an undergraduate campus boosts the budget and faculty resource category since medical professors are typically higher paid than, say, someone who teaches freshman journalism. They also generate huge research expenditures.

The UT System's medical schools are predominantly stand-alone facilities, but they account for two-thirds of the research dollars in the system, according to Geri Malandra, interim executive vice chancellor for academic affairs for the UT System.

Private schools occupied the top 20 spots on the magazine's list. Ivy League schools dominated the top tier, with all eight of them in the top 15. Princeton, Harvard and Yale were Nos. 1, 2 and 3, respectively.

Texas Christian University tied with four schools at No. 105, down from 97 last year.

"While we are concerned that TCU's overall ranking has dipped slightly, we are pleased that the university is still ranked among the top institutions in the country," TCU Chancellor Victor Boschini said in a statement. "These rankings, which can easily change from year to year, are only one indicator of our success. ... This year's freshman class is the most talented and diverse to date. This is a clear indicator that more and more highly qualified prospective students and their parents are showing an increased interest in our institution."

The top five public universities were Berkeley, the University of Michigan, the University of Virginia, the University of California, Los Angeles and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

UT-Austin has done considerably better in at least one other poll. England's 2005 The Times Higher Education Supplement put UT-Austin at No. 26 in the world, ahead of all the UC System schools except Berkeley.

The 2005 Times survey put Texas A&M at No. 125 and Rice at No. 150. No other Texas schools made the top 200.

Malandra said a soon-to-be-announced UT System 10-year strategic plan should begin yielding results as soon as next year.

As for the University of Texas at Arlington, which was in U.S. News & World Report's fourth tier, along with the University of Texas at El Paso, Malandra said it wasn't valid to compare it to a school such as UCLA.

"UT-Arlington is not part of a purely research university system, which is what the UC System is," Malandra said. "Up until recently, they were primarily a commuter school."

Michael Moore, UTA associate provost, cautioned students and graduates not be too upset at the ratings if their alma mater isn't No. 1.

Rankings such as the U.S. News don't benefit schools such as UTA without an extensive base of rich alumni, selective admissions, big research dollars or name recognition that boost others.

The fact that UTA, for example, will be building a state-of-the-art engineering building in the near future isn't yet widely known and hasn't had a chance to raise its reputation.

"There are many, many quality programs out there," said Moore, adding that prospective students need to do their homework when it comes to choosing schools and weighing the ratings numbers. "They're a tool. They're not the tool."

IN THE KNOW

College rankings

U.S. News & World Report publishes annual rankings of the nation's top universities based on factors such as graduation rate, student-faculty ratio, acceptance rate and SAT/ACT scores. The annual study is slated to hit newsstands Monday.

Texas schools' rankings among national universities:

17. Rice

47. University of Texas at Austin*

60. Texas A&M University*

70. Southern Methodist University*

81. Baylor

105. Texas Christian University*

Third-tier universities (unranked: listed alphabetically)

Texas Tech University

University of Texas at Dallas

Fourth-tier universities (unranked: listed alphabetically)

Texas A&M University-Commerce

Texas A&M University-Kingsville

Texas Southern University

University of North Texas

University of Texas at Arlington

University of Texas at El Paso

* Indicates tie for position

SOURCE: U.S. News & World Report

[Stan R]

We should be in that 3rd tier. Period. That should be the new president's #1 goal. After supporting mean green athletics, of course.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

----Yeah we are down there with Texas Southern, get real..... These rankings are a joke. Strange how almost all the top universities are in the north. I think the closer that you are to the media centers of NY, Philadelphia and Washington (also big population centers) the higher you rank. My two sons are software engineers and when they were co-ops both had a MIT co-op in their group as well. Both said the MIT co-ops were next to worthless....but they came from a "great" school. Neither were hired meanwhile both my sons, one with a NT degree and another an Aggie degree were immediately hired full time then went back to finish their last (fall) semester.

---A few years ago US News listed Princeton as having a top tier Law school. They did not even have one but had a prelaw program. They have one now. Reminds me a whole lot of BCS thing...... It is BS, and I don't mean a degree.

---UT-Dallas third-tier???? every college except Rice in this state has lower average SATs than they do (including UT-Austin) ... It is mostly engineers and business majors...... More BS.

--- SMU's ranking is likely based on the amount of tuition they charge, if it expensive, it must be good ......... I wonder where Bill Clements ( and his checkbook) were when they put this list together ????

Edited August 18, 2006 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[edcollopy]

where is u of Houston?

[LongJim]

where is u of Houston?

←

I think they're in 5A.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

--These loonies probably think Univ. of Houston and Sam Houston State is the same place.

[Go_UTA]

I've read a study about the U.S. News' rankings, and one take away that I remember was that their chosen metrics are skewed to benefit smaller, liberal arts-type colleges. Big State U's, even UT Austin, are "hurt."

For instance, I know TCU is very decent place (mostly undergraduate!), but when I look at their placement that drives home the point...that is, small, heavy liberal arts orientation schools benefit.

I'd rather be ranked higher than lower (for the publicity), but take it for what it is worth (which to me is with a grain of salt).

I wonder if they cost-adjust the salaries of profs in California. Just to be even, California profs would have to make a heck of a lot more money than DFW profs.

[UNTLifer]

The annual study, slated to hit newsstands Monday, bases its rankings on factors such as graduation rate, student-faculty ratio, acceptance rate and SAT/ACT scores.

None of these factor in the quality of education received.

[DeepGreen]

Wasn't there a Texas university a few years ago that was ranked 3rd or 4th tier by US News & World Report, then took it upon themselves to "smooze and booze" the right people who do the ranking each year. The university brought the folks down for a tour and did a selling job on how great their programs were. Next year the university made it to the 2nd tier. Imagine that.

[Zeke]

Wasn't there a Texas university a few years ago that was ranked 3rd or 4th tier by US News & World Report, then took it upon themselves to "smooze and booze" the right people who do the ranking each year.  The university brought the folks down for a tour and did a selling job on how great their programs were.  Next year the university made it to the 2nd tier.  Imagine that.

←

I believe that was Tech, who moved their Tier from 4th to 3rd.

[VideoEagle]

I know in the past, a big part of the “academic” rankings included the percentage of graduates who “gave back” by joining alumni groups and making donations. With the number of grads we have the tiny number who join the NT Exes, it supposedly was enough to pull of from 3 tier to the 4th.

I remember the helping our USNWR ranking was listed at one time as a reason to join the Exes.

[russell360]

Urban legend, started here...

Edited August 18, 2006 by russell360

[VideoEagle]

Urban legend, started here...

←

No, it’s not an urban myth!

I just looked an Alumi Giving is 5% of the total score! Financial resources is 10%. What’s our student body graduation rate? That is either 20% or 25% depending on how they count us. Are we a “National University” or a “University (Masters) and Comprehensive College.”

Combined those are 35% to 40% of the total “academic” ranking! No wonder we are 4th tier in this study. I wonder how many will take the time that I just did to check the methodology?

Link to US News

[MeanGreenBuzz]

what does alumni giving and financial resources have to do with quality of academics? Last I looked we had one of the best accounting programs in the state and nation not to mention nationally recognized music and other arts programs. Yes yes the more money alumni give the more you can improve a program, but if that was the cast UT should have the best programs in the state in every catagory... but we know that isnt the case. They need to asses points based on the academic programs at the school and how they are recognized throughout the nation and rank them based on that for a true "academic ranking"

Edited August 18, 2006 by MeanGreenBuzz

[good_ken]

what does alumni giving and financial resources have to do with quality of academics? Last I looked we had one of the best accounting programs in the state and nation not to mention nationally recognized music and other arts programs. Yes yes the more money alumni give the more you can improve a program, but if that was the cast UT should have the best programs in the state in every catagory... but we know that isnt the case. They need to asses points based on the academic programs at the school and how they are recognized throughout the nation and rank them based on that for a true "academic ranking"

A lot. The lack of financial giving will hinder the univesity in fields such as Engineering, and other sciences. Which if you inspect the list, the schools at the top of the list are typcially considered the heavyweights in technical areas such as Engineering.

[Ibleedgreen]

We are equal to or superior to Texas Tech in everything but architecture. Don't pay any attention to these rankings. The only unfortunate thing is that a lot of people believe what they read in the popular press.

[good_ken]

We are equal to or superior to Texas Tech in everything but architecture. Don't pay any attention to these rankings. The only unfortunate thing is that a lot of people believe what they read in the popular press.

Um, except that they have a pretty good engineering department. Its good enought that GMC gave them a grant to work on hydrogen powered vehicles (subrubans). Like several million dollars worth.

Let me repeat, the traditionally technical areas (which includes scientific research) matter alot to people. Until UNT becomes really serious about this area of the academic picture, we will lag in perception.

[CaribbeanGreen]

We are equal to or superior to Texas Tech in everything but architecture. Don't pay any attention to these rankings. The only unfortunate thing is that a lot of people believe what they read in the popular press.

←

Yeah, ummm.. except that engineering department, Med School, and Law School. Other than that, sure..

[PlummMeanGreen]

Wasn't there a Texas university a few years ago that was ranked 3rd or 4th tier by US News & World Report, then took it upon themselves to "smooze and booze" the right people who do the ranking each year.  The university brought the folks down for a tour and did a selling job on how great their programs were.  Next year the university made it to the 2nd tier.  Imagine that.

←

Yes, DG, it was Texas Tech and there was a full length article in the Sunday Dallas Morning News a few years ago which I posted about on GMG.com about 7,000 posts ago.

That DMN article went on about how Texas Tech took a delegation of their movers and shakers to (& as to quote you, DG) "smooze and booze" USN&WR officials and "WALA" the Techsters suddenly move from Tier 4 to Tier 3. All this was also taking place about the same time TTech officials talked SBC Communications out of a $20 million cash gift to get their renovations and expansion of Jones Stadium started.

In that same DMN article, the UT (Austin) president was quoted saying he was of the opinion that that the USN&WR ranking methods of U.S. colleges and universities were about as bogus a ranking system as there was.

ALWAYS SEEMS TO BOIL DOWN TO MONEY and therefore, our short-coming and main nemesis for having a lack thereof): If UNT had more in our financial coffers, ie, our school's total endowment, then we probably would get a 3'rd Tier ranking as donotions loom large in the USN&WR ranking system.

I believe if UNT had the much-larger financial endowment that our academics (at least in the eyes of the USN&WR officials) would receive a new look-over and almost overnight (suddenly) get their attention. (Amazing the power and influence of the almight dollar, eh)? Yet at about $40 million for all 3 of our campuses in the UNT System at present, we are probably about $360 million short what a school established in 1890 and one with our size constituency should probably have as our endowment.

UNT-Dallas will (in many ways) not directly affect UNT-Denton, but in an indirect sort of way I belive it will. I say that because Dallas corporate or individual monies will have to be raised to make UNT-Dallas a viable academic institution. Such Dallas monies raised for our south Dallas County campus would (naturally) cause many of us who attended our main campus wonder why such monies had never been actively sought after or made available for our school with its 100 plus year history. Yet we will have all these new Dallas donations suddenly become available for a brand new yet unknown commodity of a campus in south Dallas County?

So unless a UNT version of T. Boone Pickens steps forward, I believe the continued establishment of UNT-Dallas as to make it a complete free-standing university will be the #1 priority and focus for the UNT Chancellor and the UNT Board of Regents.

After all, if you have an incomplete campus in south Dallas County with our Texas legislature wondering why its taking UNT officials such a long time to get the thing jump-started (with big donations needed to do that); anyway, if you were a UNT Board of Regent do you even bother to bring up and discuss with Chancellor Lee Jackson and the rest of the Board the subject of building a $50 million football stadium in Denton, Texas? Especially in light of the fact that we still only have $40 million in our school's entire endowment?

These are really some tough times in the UNT System, especially for those who have dreamed of a new football stadium in Denton that will serve a dual purpose of helping us get rid of our pink elephant of a track & field stadium off I-35E and help us step into this new millieneum with a new NCAA D1-A stadium that will (somehow/someway) help us keep some semblance of our place at the table in a BCS that seems to have been financially distancing itself from the rest of the non-BCS almost since the time the Big 12 began its operations.

Edited August 19, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Yes, DG, it was Texas Tech and there was a full length article in the Sunday Dallas Morning News a few years ago which I posted about on GMG.com about 7,000 posts ago.  

That DMN article went on about how Texas Tech took a delegation of their movers and shakers to (& as to quote you, DG) "smooze and booze" USN&WR officials and "WALA" the Techsters suddenly move from Tier 4 to Tier 3.  All this was also taking place about the same time TTech officials talked SBC Communications out of a $20 million cash gift to get their renovations and expansion of Jones Stadium started.  

In that same DMN article, the UT (Austin) president was quoted saying he was of the opinion that that the USN&WR ranking methods of U.S. colleges and universities were about as bogus a ranking system as there was.

ALWAYS SEEMS TO BOIL DOWN TO MONEY and therefore, our short-coming and main nemesis for having a lack thereof): If UNT had more in our financial coffers, ie, our school's total endowment, then we probably would get a 3'rd Tier ranking as donotions loom large in the USN&WR ranking system.  I believe the academic area of UNT is about as unknown and (therefore) under-rated as any school in America.  Yet at about $40 million for all 3 of our campuses in the UNT System, we are probably about $360 million short what a school established in 1890 and one with our size constituency should probably have as our endowment.

UNT-Dallas will not directly affect UNT-Denton,  but Dallas monies that will have to be raised to make UNT-Dallas a viable academic institution would (naturally) cause many who attended the main campus in Denton to wonder why such monies had never been available for our school in its 100 plus year history,  yet has suddenly become available for a brand new and unknown commodity of a campus in south Dallas County?   

So unless a UNT version of a T. Boone Pickens steps forward, I believe the continued establishment of UNT-Dallas as to make it a complete free-standing university will be the #1 focus for the UNT Chancellor and the UNT Board of Regents. 

After all, if you have an incompleted campus in south Dallas County with our Texas legislature wondering why its taking so long to get the thing jump-started (with big donations needed to do that);  anyway,  if you are a UNT Board of Regent do you even bother to bring up and discuss to the Chancellor and the rest of the Board of Regents the subject of building a $50 million football stadium in Denton, Texas?  Especially in light of the fact that we still have only $40 millioin in our entire school endowment? 

These are really some tough times in the UNT System, especially for those who have dreamed of a new football stadium in Denton that will serve a dual purpose of helping us get rid of our pink elephant of a track & field stadium off I-35E and help us step into this new millieneum with a new NCAA D1-A stadium that will (somehow/someway) help us keep some semblance of our place at the table in a BCS that seems to have been financially distancing itself from the rest of the non-BCS almost since the time the Big 12 began its operations. 

←

Jim, kudos for being able to work a treatise on Tech's ability to get their USN&WR rating improved into talking about UNT-Dallas.

I'm not totally on the UNT-Dallas' bandwagon either but in the long run I think that it will be fine; maybe even adding to the prestige of UNT.

First, the permanent endowment fund at the University of North Texas is almost $50 million (actually it's only $46+ million but I used the Plummer method of rounding). It is increasing at somewhere between $5-10 million per year so in another 60-70 years it should be at the $360 million where you think it should be. Being a permanent fund, only the interest can be used. Historically, it has only been used mostly to help fund a new department or program. I say help, because the primary source usually comes from someone who has left an endowment to UNT to establish the entity. (One example is the Department of Behavorial Analysis). So, only in rare cases do I think that any of the flagship university's endowment interest would be used for UNT-Dallas.

According to Sen. Royce West, the money for UNT-Dallas will come from new money primarily located in southern Dallas County. Of course, much of the funding will come from the state legislature. I agree that appropriated monies COULD be taken from the main campus and used on the Dallas campus but not without the BOR approval.

I know that you and many others think that Lee Jackson is some kind of warlock but remember, the Board of Regents is still his boss. His primary duties are to obtain funds from the State of Texas and to carry out the wishes of the university and its satellites, while operating within budget constraints.

Jim, you need to get real chummy with Bobby Ray (ala DD) so that we can keep LJ under control.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Jim, kudos for being able to work a treatise on Tech's ability to get their USN&WR rating improved into talking about UNT-Dallas. 

I'm not totally on the UNT-Dallas' bandwagon either but in the long run I think that it will be fine; maybe even adding to the prestige of UNT. 

First, the permanent endowment fund at the University of North Texas is almost $50 million (actually it's only $46+ million but I used the Plummer method of rounding).  It is increasing at somewhere between $5-10 million per year so in another 60-70 years it should be at the $360 million where you think it should be.  Being a permanent fund, only the interest can be used.  Historically, it has only been used mostly to help fund a new department or program.  I say help, because the primary source usually comes from someone who has left an endowment to UNT to establish the entity.  (One example is the Department of Behavorial Analysis).  So, only in rare cases do I think that any of the flagship university's endowment interest would be used for UNT-Dallas.

According to Sen. Royce West, the money for UNT-Dallas will come from new money primarily located in southern Dallas County.  Of course, much of the funding will come from the state legislature.  I agree that appropriated monies COULD be taken from the main campus and used on the Dallas campus but not without the BOR approval. 

I know that you and many others think that Lee Jackson is some kind of warlock but remember, the Board of Regents is still his boss.  His primary duties are to obtain funds from the State of Texas and to carry out the wishes of the university and its satellites, while operating within budget constraints.

Jim, you need to get real chummy with Bobby Ray (ala DD) so that we can keep LJ under control.

←

Well, Jack, Bobby Ray has yet to ask me to join him and family for a summer vacation so I guess I am not on his "A" list of potential invite'ees for a summer vacation like Coach DD and family have had such an honor. Actually, I've never met Bobby Ray, but I think many of us question why he and his board seem to have no trouble (whatsoever) rubber-stamping all these extended contracts of UNT coaches (many years at UNT with under .500 W/L records) and UNT coaches that other higher profile schools are not exactly knocking their doors down to hire them away from us.

Last I read in some UNT publication the endowment was actually about $39 million, but I like your numbers much better and will believe your sources to be updated and more accurate. Of course, one question might be: Are we talking about future land-holdings with (perhaps) gas wells on them that UNT is projecting in these new and much larger endowment numbers OR.......... do they really have $46 million in real monies in our present endowment?

Jack, IMO, the jury is still out with Lee Jackson. I am not alone with those feelings. With what was supposed to be his Texas political strengths and savvy, I think many are still surprised that a UNT Law School is not open for business even as we post on all this.

Not sure why a non-academian/ politician w/o a Phd would receive the call for such a high academic position as Chancellor of a major public university as UNT, but what is done is done. I think many of us will always wonder if a true advocate, ie, a mover and shaker of UNT athletics who is attempting to make UNT a true player in NCAA D1-A will really ever receive from our present Chancellor a leader who doesn't squelch such pro-activity for Mean Green varsity athletics?

And Jack, you know any university leader can squech any pro-active athletic's advocate in so many (most) subtle ways; one for example, like not allowing the "A" list of potential UNT donors to be made available to our Mean Green athletic fund-raisers? But rather will UNT only get this from our Chancellor: "I'll stay out of the way of athletics, but it is not a passion of mine." I believe one of you on this board posted that you actually heard similar words come out of the mouth of Lee Jackson). Personally, I would rather the Chancellor have the Noval Pohl approach toward athletics. I think that type of attitude gets us closer to where we would all like UNT Athletics to be than the passive "it's not a priority" approach.

To say the least..............interesting times ahead for UNT.

Edited August 19, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[russell360]

If all it takes is smmoze,NT needs to break out the booze!

Endowment:

NT $39 Million

UH $420 million

Tech$484million

[PlummMeanGreen]

If all it takes is smmoze,NT needs to break out the booze!

Endowment:

NT $39 Million

UH $420 million

Tech$484million

←

2 out of the 3 aforementioned "system" schools have law schools. Not saying it was all their attorneys who gave them (IMHO) very impressive endowment numbers, though.

FWIW, 2 of the 3 listed have had engineering schools that have been in operation many more years than ours which (comparatively) is still in its infancy.

Not real surprised at Texas Tech's number$, but UH's endowment is sort of a surprise. Both of those schools were never "normal" colleges like UNT, though. "Normal" for some of you young gun alums who may not know be aware of this were the names given to "teacher's colleges" back in late 1800's into the next century. In fact, of our 6 names we've had in Denton, wasn't our first name Texas Normal?

Well, if we could only have all the "normal" things happening athletic-wise at a university based in Texas that has about 32,000 students, 100,000 (+ or -) alums within one hour of its main campus, even more growth on the horizon (& that mainly due for its location***hellsbells, Fidel Castro could have been president of UNT and it was still going to grow in enrollment).

The aforementioned endowments numbers of UNT, UH and Texas Tech is the main reason that UNT should have never taken on the south Dallas County project IMO. It's one thing to establish a university, but its another thing to have all the extra funding and resources (raised from corportations and individuals) to turn it into a good university and I think its taken our main campus about 100 plus years to finally figure that out; henceforth, our $39 (or $50 million) endowment in this our 116'th year of existence in Denton, Texas, America?

Do any of you remember when we used to hire fundraisers at NT who could not even (literally) raise monies that would equal each of their respective salaries? I do.........

Edited August 19, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[Mean'n'Green07]

If all it takes is smmoze,NT needs to break out the booze!

Endowment:

NT $39 Million

UH $420 million

Tech$484million

←

Ok, a few questions for the older alumni.

1. How to we obtain the endowment? Donors, excess funds, state money?

2. How the hell do we have so little of it, especially compared to UH and Tech. I understand why A&M and UT would be way ahead of us, but HOW can we be so behind?

3. Whats the primary uses of our endowment? Is it scholarships, help building new buildings or for starting new programs?

[MGW]

No, it’s not an urban myth!

I just looked an Alumi Giving is 5% of the total score! Financial resources is 10%. What’s our student body graduation rate? That is either 20% or 25% depending on how they count us. Are we a “National University” or a “University (Masters) and Comprehensive College.”

Combined those are 35% to 40% of the total “academic” ranking! No wonder we are 4th tier in this study. I wonder how many will take the time that I just did to check the methodology?

Link to US News

←

You and your facts!