Big East not looking

Harry · July 25, 2006

For certain its known that Lee Jackson has already said he is not that gung-ho about athletics

Plumm I want to know where in print or sound byte Chancellor Jackson has ever said this. I just don't buy that he ever did. I see him at the games, he's wearing his green and seems to be having a good time.

I like Dr. Pohl a lot. He is a good man. He was good for athletics and I wish him the best. Losing Dr. Pohl is tough for all of us. His loss does not mean that Jackson is looking to change the direction. If anything I expect that he plans on continuing the momentum that Dr. Pohl started.

We need to have a little faith in our leadership here. These are the same leaders that hired Dr. Pohl. These are the same leaders that were on watch when the athletic center was built, the first significant athletic improvement in the last 20+ years in my opinion.

I haven't given up on UNT Dallas either. The reality is until they widen I-35 we have some major traffic issues that will hinder our growth at the main campus. We also need to build more dorms. A UNT Law School in Dallas would be huge. There's more money in Dallas, more large corporations that we could tap into. Investing time and resources into UNT Dallas does not mean that we are taking anything away from UNT Denton. I think it would be a mistake to put our head in the sand and pass up opportunities for expansion into Big D.

July 25, 2006

OK, Jim, about the last sentence. We tend to blame all of problems on SMU. They, and they alone, kept us out of the Southwest Conference. Bull S^^^. You give them more credit than they deserve. They are not that powerful; then or now. But, because they have a bunch of snobs, they're an easy target to blame for all of our ills. How about blaming ourselves? We are the ones that let Hayden down; not what SMU did. If you want to blame a university then start with Baylor. If Hayden's alma mater had gotten the provates to support us, DKR would've likely gotten the public universities in tow.

One other thing, it's been brought up a number of times lately about their cheating. Yes, they did and they paid dearly for it but how many of the current student body or administration had anything to do with that? If the shoe was on the other foot, would we want them constantly bringing that up to our current students and administration?

Now to Lee Jackson. As Harry pointed out, he can't be dead-set against us because he attends every football game. Regardless of what Lee wants to do, he cannot do anything, pro or con, regarding athletics without the approval of the Board of Regents. You want to lay some blame, there's your starting point. If the BOR decided tomorrow that they wanted that new stadium, and started an all-out campaign, we'd probably have it within two years. But, have you seen a committment? Neither have I.

The OOD was told "hands off" to potential athletic donors back before the last big capital fund campaign was conducted. That was before the hiring of Lee Jackson. I don't know what has happened since then except that the Athletics Department now has two full-time development officers.

I saw Lee Jackson's hiring for what he could deliver in Dallas County and the state legislature. As the former chief officer of Dallas County, he has the connections to eventually get us a branch university in Dallas and a law school. His connections had nothing to do with the main campus in Denton. They are sources that would have remained untapped had Jackson never been hired. You realize that yourself with your "future headline" posting. As a former legislator it was also felt that he could help obtain appropriations for the Denton campus. But, as luck would have it, his chance to shine came the very year that the State couldn't decide on school finances and no one got anything. The financing for the Dallas campus must also come from the State of Texas. Surely, everyone knew that we couldn't build even a small part of the Dallas campus with the interest from our meager endowment fund.

SilverEagle · July 25, 2006

Plumm I want to know where in print or sound byte Chancellor Jackson has ever said this. I just don't buy that he ever did. I see him at the games, he's wearing his green and seems to be having a good time.
I like Dr. Pohl a lot. He is a good man. He was good for athletics and I wish him the best. Losing Dr. Pohl is tough for all of us. His loss does not mean that Jackson is looking to change the direction. If anything I expect that he plans on continuing the momentum that Dr. Pohl started.
We need to have a little faith in our leadership here. These are the same leaders that hired Dr. Pohl. These are the same leaders that were on watch when the athletic center was built, the first significant athletic improvement in the last 20+ years in my opinion.
I haven't given up on UNT Dallas either. The reality is until they widen I-35 we have some major traffic issues that will hinder our growth at the main campus*. We also need to build more dorms. A UNT Law School in Dallas would be huge**. There's more money in Dallas, more large corporations that we could tap into. Investing time and resources into UNT Dallas does not mean that we are taking anything away from UNT Denton. I think it would be a mistake to put our head in the sand and pass up opportunities for expansion into Big D.
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* Harry, this would seem to imply that you believe that we are primarily a commuter school.

** It's my belief/opinion that this was the only expansion that we needed to do in Dallas County.

From time to time we talk about and/or mention our raw student population growth at North Texas, and the great potential that it represents. I find it interesting that our average attendance at games is bascally the same now (mid-15K) as it was during the late 70's and mid-80's, when our student population was under 20K.

VideoEagle · July 25, 2006

* Harry, this would seem to imply that you believe that we are primarily a commuter school.
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No, until the finish widening I35, there is going to be many, many construction delays around the area. Plus, expansion anywhere within several blocks of 35 or where 35 will expand or even where 35 could potentially expand if some highway engineer changes things must wait till all of the road work is finished.

It’s not that we’re a commuter school, it that the school is build next to a highway that is going to expand in width.

PlummMeanGreen · July 25, 2006

* Harry, this would seem to imply that you believe that we are primarily a commuter school.
** It's my belief/opinion that this was the only expansion that we needed to do in Dallas County.
From time to time we talk about and/or mention our raw student population growth at North Texas, and the great potential that it represents. I find it interesting that our average attendance at games is bascally the same now (mid-15K) as it was during the late 70's and mid-80's, when our student population was under 20K.
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Bill, the part you post about our attendance being about the same as in previous decades is the very part of this equation in Denton that continues to confuse and baffle some of our best and faithful long-standing alums and MG fans (of which you would be part of that group, of course).

Many thought record-breaking freshmen classes the last several years in a row would translate to higher average attendances of over 20,000 per home game no matter who our opponents would be and no matter who was calling the plays on Game Day (and FWIW, the record-breaking freshmen classes the last few years still may translate to more support in due time) but for the moment it just hasn't shown up at the turnstiles.

Yet................a school with 33,000 (and growing) enrollment in a college town of over 100,000 headquartered in a (Denton) county that has a larger population base than the city of New Orleans had even before Katrina hit their proud historic city should be showing up in positive numbers in the attendance section of our area newspapers Sunday AM box scores but.........I think we can all agree that they just aren't. (NOTE: Forgot to add our over 100K NT Exes in the Metroplex in the aforementioned numbers count).

As far as the part in my, uh, epistle about Chancellor Jackson saying athletics was not one of his great passions but his also saying that he would not stand in its way (and we'll all see about that in the days and years ahead by his actions), but that information on LJ's quote came from a source in one of our UNT alumnus support groups whose words I've come to be able to trust and hang my hat on in decades past. In other words, from one who is extremely close to the scene of what is going on with UNT leadership, that is.

I'm sure there are answers to many of our questions that all of us looking from the outside will not be privvy' to know and that is the norm at most universities since university leaders don't publish (nor do they need to IMO) every detail of what goes on or whats said behind closed door meetings in the Hurley Administration Bldg.

Although our endowment coffers at UNT is one for us to be perplexed and a bit red-faced about, UNT's biggest advantage still lies within its numbers, ie, our huge constituencies of which we have to work with. Just like in the sales game, it always comes down to numbers & I really feel at some point ours will work to our advantage in Denton. Yet its just that UNT needs to start letting those numbers work for the positive and good of our program now and take all of those numbers off the "potential" back-burner and turn many of them into butts-in-seats-----now.

Still amazing to many (and a bit of UNT trivia for some of you young gun NT alums) is how it wasn't really until right before Hayden Fry was hired (the early 1970's) that UNT after all our years of existence even started to record names, addresses and phone numbers of its alums. That would be the guess of many as to why we are behind in the university endowment business as compared to other Texas public universities of like-size (and even other Texas universities much smaller than UNT, too).

Edited July 25, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

July 25, 2006

As far as the part in my, uh, epistle about Chancellor Jackson saying athletics was not one of his great passions but his also saying that he would not stand in its way (and we'll all see about that in the days and years ahead by his actions), but that information on LJ's quote came from a source in one of our UNT alumnus support groups whose words I've come to be able to trust and hang my hat on in decades past. In other words, from one who is extremely close to the scene of what is going on with UNT leadership, that is.
I can substantiate that statement. At the homecoming tailgate after he was named chancellor, I asked him that very question and received the same reply.
Realize that while LJ cannot divert funds for projects that he would prefer, he can make it very difficult for the AD to solicit additional funds so he could still be a force to be reckoned with.
Yes, our numbers are the best thing that we have going for us publicly. Most people in the Metroplex that I have come in contact with realize that we are a huge university. And, as you mentioned, Denton is on the verge of becoming a large city and the county now has more than a half-million residents. That should translate into higher attendance but the increase is very slow. When I first attended North Texas we'd have 9-10,000 in a stadium of 10,000. NTSC had an enrollment of 5,000 and Denton had a population of around 18,000. If those figures were proportionate, then we'd be having more than 50,000 per game without using county figures.
We've had an Alumni Director of some ilk since around 1950. Jessica's uncle, who was on the business faculty, was appointed the first director at about that time. The problem was twofold: 1) there were no computers then and records were kept on cards that were filled out and turned in voluntarily and 2) at several points along the way participation was actually discouraged. The thinking was that they didn't want some alum who had given $50 telling them how to run their operation. So what you witnessed under Hayden took place partially because of the advent of computers and (president) Jitter Nolen.

SilverEagle · July 25, 2006

What also happened Jack was a case of culture shock for the North Texas administrators. North Texas never had anyone with that kind of drive and personality in the athletic department.
And we've never had anyone like that since. Call me paranoid and/or cynical, but I don't think that is an accident.

BleedGreen64 · July 25, 2006

I seen the problem going even deeper. The last govenor or two like to appoint regents with no connection to NT and a loyalty to other univeristies in the State.

When it comes to hand outs do you prefer them for your job or where your heart lies?

PlummMeanGreen · July 26, 2006

So now I know of 2 NT Exes that Chancellor Jackson has made his feelings known of how important intercollegiate athletics is to him AND...........I've highlighed your statement, Jack, in larger red letters as to what I have been bumbling and stumbling about in recent posts in my attempts to say as far as what all our new leadership at UNT can do to make things tough for the UNT AD and Mean Green athletics. I think this Chancellor will most likely never be guilty of the "athletics being the picture window of a university" quote and that's for darn sure.
My hope and dream is that Lee Jackson and the new UNT president (whose name escapes me) will be the best thing since sliced bread that happens for NT athletics, but my gut feeling tells me we are fixin' to go back into our "2 giant steps backwards" mode.
At UNT, it seems to most always be the "one giant step forward--2 giant steps backwards" mode of operation. For whatever the reason, our most pro-active/pro-athletics presidents in our past seem to most always be followed by those who want to make their own statement known on the subject of our varsity athletic program and that usually has not been for the betterment or advancement of our Mean Green athletic program.
And now on another thread we have some of our young gun NT alums worrying how we will fare this Fall against the likes of the MUTS, ULM, ULL, Troy U, etc, etc, etc; yet one only has to wonder how all our NT football lettermen from another generation (and decade) and those who played on Mean Green football teams that beat Tennessee, Houston, SMU and the like; anyway, one has to be thinking about how they feel about our present direction and now with a coach's poll projection that UNT will finish in or around 4'th place in the Sun Belt Conference.

Edited July 26, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

Arkstfan · July 26, 2006

Interesting about your alumni association.

A few presidents ago (back when I was a student) we had a president who abolished the dues and the donor structure of the alumni association supposedly to make the association more inclusive. Though most felt that as a politician rather than traditional administrator that he was eliminating a potential foe.

This way everyone would get the newsletters and such.

Naturally giving took a nose dive so they created the ASU Foundation and Presidents Circle etc as fund-raising arms and because they were generating money funds started being pulled away from the alumni association.

Today everyone is still in the association but they have due structure that gets you some extra benefits but is only set at a level to supplement the funding to provide communications to all alumni. It is also starting to be a student recruiting tool sending gifts to the children of alumni donors when they turn 1, 5, 10, and 15 plus cards on their other birthdays.

Glad to see ASU isn't the only school to screw up its arm to reach alums. Takes awhile to overcome those mistakes.