SMU vs. UNT- Class Warfare?

DallasGreen · July 19, 2006

September 9th is more than an important FB game on the UNT OOC schedule!! It is a chance for the underprivileged to make their mark against the pampered, pompous, impowered few who thrive on the Hilltop in the HP/UP gold corridor. UNT is a diverse, blue collar, first generation university training students for careers. SMU is for the lavish society offspring of Dallasites to further their line by making the "contacts" that will usher them to the top of Dallas society. "Contacts" in the nature of former Governor Bill Clements, who once begged the NCAA to let the 'stangs continue payments to some players that had "contracted" with the athletic dept. by means of private annuities to play for SMU. The good governor did not do this as an aide to the likes of the infamous Pony Express ( probably the highest paid duo in NCAA history), he feared that those players would sue those who originated the annuities for ---breach of contract. "Contacts" like Sherwood Blount who would implement a system of pay for play so Ron Mier could give cash $$$ awards for such on the field accomplishments as most tackles, yards gained, highlight reel plays, etc. for each and every game. As D Magazine once proclaimed in this era "IF YOU WANT TO BE RICH AND POWERFUL IN DALLAS____YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE TO S. M. U." Is it any wonder that the "Death Penalty" was imposed when in the midst of an NCAA investigation a recruit from PA comes into the athletic dept. and inquires what they are going to do since he had just wrecked the brand new car that every boy needed to get around campus? Come on Folks these people desrved no mercy-- they flaunted their money and power and they got EXACTLY WHAT THEY DESERVED!!! The cheating may now be better hidden or even severly limited, but the attitude of arrogance is alive and well. Make no doubt about it. In the immortal words of the legendary Lawrence Perkins as quoted in the 1990 NT Daily " At SMU we love North Texas Grads, as we feel they make some of the best domestic help in all of Highland Park"

At NT on the other hand we fight for ever once of recognition in The Belo owned press, dominated by SMU ownership, which has now even acquired the hometown DRC. More than 70% of our students are on some type of financial aid, and it's certainly not from some affluent promoters or prominent family legacy. As a student, I would ask you wouldn't it be nice to take a swat at those who so look down on you and your university? As a player, I would ask isn't it a privilege for you to defend the honor of the working class families that send their kids to UNT to pursue careers after graduation not just for the "contacts" that will help them buy their way up the corporate ladder? As coaches, I would ask don't you think that it is worth a supremely prepared game plan and use of the most talented personnel to give these players the opportunity to win against a greater funded, elitist institution? Finally as athletic administrators, I would ask isn't it worth an overtime effort to promote this game for what it is --A Battle of Class Warfare?

UNT vs. SMU is more than a FB game-- when Sept. 9th comes-- It should be all out warfare, not just another ho-hum OOC game. DEMAND THIS ATTITUDE FROM YOUR ATHLETIC DEPT. AND STUDENTS__OUR PLAYERS WILL GET THE MESSAGE AND MAYBE EVEN OUR COACHES TOO!!! KICK THE HORSES' REARS!!!

Edited July 19, 2006 by DallasGreen

Quoner · July 19, 2006

As a student I would ask you wouldn't it be nice to take a swat at those who so look down on you and your university?
←

Dude, if that is your beef with SMU, then you have MANY, MANY schools to beat. But SMU on a list with just about every D-IA school except for the Sun Belt schools and Baylor.

Calling this a class war seems to sell many of our very successful and rich alumni short - the only difference is many of our alumni don't care about their school. SMU grads do and traditionally have. The real problem is the failure of UNT to establish an identity or positive relationship with many of the students who come through here in any form. Seems like that's changing, but the benefits of that are still years off.

Stan R · July 19, 2006

Calling this a class war seems to sell many of our very successful and rich alumni short - the only difference is many of our alumni don't care about their school.
←

Good points Quones. The blue collar comment is a bit absurd. I know what DallasGreen is trying to do here - to rile us all up but I take offense at the notion that most UNT grads are blue collar. It just isn't true. In any case, BEAT THE HELL OUT OF SMU!!!

DeepGreen · July 19, 2006

"Contacts" like Sherwood Blount who would implement a system of pay for play so Ron Mier could give cash $$$ awards for such on the field accomplishments as most tackles, yards gained, highlight reel plays, etc. for each and every game.
←

And thus began "Management By Objectives" in college sports.

I would also like to retract by earlier comments on this board about "stopping the SMU bashing". DallasGreen has made a believer out of me. I say,

"BEAT THE CRAP OUTTA THE SUMBITCHES!"

Edited July 19, 2006 by DeepGreen

Quoner · July 19, 2006

And thus began "Management By Objectives" in college sports.
I would also like to retract by earlier comments on this board about "stopping the SMU bashing". DallasGreen has made a believer out of me. I say,
"BEAT THE CRAP OUTTA THE SUMBITCHES!"

←

Does anyone really not want to beat the crap out of them? I want to beat the crap out of anyone NT lines up across from, whether its Texas, SMU, a team of trannies in chaps, or the Dallas Cowboys.

BleedGreen64 · July 19, 2006

I had several Highland Park/University Park grads in my classes at NT and know they will be supporting theMean Green on 9/9. I personally could have gone to either (Doak Walker was my hero in high school)but I chose to go where Abner Haynes played).

DeepGreen · July 19, 2006

Does anyone really not want to beat the crap out of them? I want to beat the crap out of anyone NT lines up across from, whether its Texas, SMU, a team of trannies in chaps, or the Dallas Cowboys.
←

Some may view this as just another OOC game that has no real meaning in winning the Sun Belt Conference and going to the NO Bowl. Let's not get our boy injured before conference games start.

gangrene · July 19, 2006

a team of trannies in chaps,
←

WTF?!??! There you go again spewing off that homo-neurotic crap.

I remember my parents taking me to SMU-UNT games at Texas Stadium when I was a kid. Even though my mother was a UNT alumn, I was pulling for the wrong side. I was yound and impressionable and all the free Mustang Mania stuff lured me to the dark side. (See they were even paying for fans in those days.) Anyway, I realized the error of my ways soon enough and ceased my support for the unsubstantiated arrogance that is SMU.

I wasn't really expecting this game to mean so much to me, but the attitude SMU is exhibiting so far is really pissing me off. They act like we're nothing more than a gnat to them and that we couldn't even hold their jock straps. I don't know if it's pure football stupidity or if they really believe they are going to be good this year, but those attitudes seem to seem to be a little over-confident for a program that is 39-85 since 1995; 11-35 in the last four seasons. So, needless to say, I hope we KICK THEIR ASS on September 9!!! Go Mean Green!!!

I liken this game to fighting the "little bully"...the kid's smaller than you, so you're supposed to kick his ass. However, since he is smaller, you look like the bad guy for beating up the little guy. If you don't fight him, you look like a coward for not standing up to him and if he should happen to win the fight...well, that's just humiliating.

Mean'n'Green07 · July 19, 2006

Calling this a class war seems to sell many of our very successful and rich alumni short - the only difference is many of our alumni don't care about their school. SMU grads do and traditionally have.
←

That pretty well sums up of what I had to say. I beat out a few SMU MBA grads for a job a while back, and I think it goes to prove just because they pay 5 times of what we pay for tuition doesn't necessarily mean they get a huge advantage in the real world.

Anyways didn't SMU go 0-12 a few years ago?

gangrene · July 19, 2006

Oh, and I forgot to comment on the subject title of this thread....class warfare??

Nah, I don't really think so. I've had the (mis)fortune of working with several SMU alumni in my career. Surprisingly to me, most of them aren't too bright and certainly lacking in the intellegence department, but that's another topic.

While a certain number of SMU students may have been born with the proverbial silver spoons in their mouths, I don't see a big difference between them and former students of any other major university in Texas. Obviously, those that I have worked with weren't given the keys to "daddy's business". While their parents may have healthy bank accounts (as do alumni from other universities) and provide some financial support, they have to work just as hard as everyone else (Horns, Aggies, Sooners and Eagles) to get where they want to be in life.

I definitely disagree with the assessment that UNT produces "blue collar" workers. I don't think anyone needs to go to an institution of higher learning to gain employment in the blue collar industries. This argument seems more appropriate for a high school game versus Highland Park and (insert DISD public high school). And I would certainly hate to advertise UNT as a "blue collar university" because I seriously doubt that would help our enrollment and recruiting efforts. Now if you want to be known as a school that welcomes blue collar fans...I'd be agreeable to that.

eulesseagle · July 19, 2006

Class Warfare?????

Come on get real.......

If you are always setting SMU on a higher and more powerful pedistal than UNT then they will always be more elite and UNT will always be 2nd class. Therefore they have WON!

Pyschologically SMU has already beat you everytime you elevate their status in these posts. If you do not believe me ask Dr. Phil.

Please get away from the class warfare crap.

adman · July 19, 2006

September 9th is more than an important FB game on the UNT OOC schedule!! It is a chance for the underprivileged to make their mark against the pampered, pompous, impowered few who thrive on the Hilltop in the HP/UP gold corridor. UNT is a diverse, blue collar, first generation university training students for careers. SMU is for the lavish society offspring of Dallasites to further their line by making the "contacts" that will usher them to the top of Dallas society. "Contacts" in the nature of former Governor Bill Clements, who once begged the NCAA to let the 'stangs continue payments to some players that had "contracted" with the athletic dept. by means of private annuities to play for SMU. The good governor did not do this as an aide to the likes of the infamous Pony Express ( probably the highest paid duo in NCAA history), he feared that those players would sue those who originated the annuities for ---breach of contract. "Contacts" like Sherwood Blount who would implement a system of pay for play so Ron Mier could give cash $$$ awards for such on the field accomplishments as most tackles, yards gained, highlight reel plays, etc. for each and every game. As D Magazine once proclaimed in this era "IF YOU WANT TO BE RICH AND POWERFUL IN DALLAS____YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE TO S. M. U." Is it any wonder that the "Death Penalty" was imposed when in the midst of an NCAA investigation a recruit from PA comes into the athletic dept. and inquires what they are going to do since he had just wrecked the brand new car that every boy needed to get around campus? Come on Folks these people desrved no mercy-- they flaunted their money and power and they got EXACTLY WHAT THEY DESERVED!!! The cheating may now be better hidden or even severly limited, but the attitude of arrogance is alive and well. Make no doubt about it. In the immortal words of the legendary Lawrence Perkins as quoted in the 1990 NT Daily " At SMU we love North Texas Grads, as we feel they make some of the best domestic help in all of Highland Park"
At NT on the other hand we fight for ever once of recognition in The Belo owned press, dominated by SMU ownership, which has now even acquired the hometown DRC. More than 70% of our students are on some type of financial aid, and it's certainly not from some affluent promoters or prominent family legacy. As a student, I would ask you wouldn't it be nice to take a swat at those who so look down on you and your university? As a player, I would ask isn't it a privilege for you to defend the honor of the working class families that send their kids to UNT to pursue careers after graduation not just for the "contacts" that will help them buy their way up the corporate ladder? As coaches, I would ask don't you think that it is worth a supremely prepared game plan and use of the most talented personnel to give these players the opportunity to win against a greater funded, elitist institution? Finally as athletic administrators, I would ask isn't it worth an overtime effort to promote this game for what it is --A Battle of Class Warfare?
UNT vs. SMU is more than a FB game-- when Sept. 9th comes-- It should be all out warfare, not just another ho-hum OOC game. DEMAND THIS ATTITUDE FROM YOUR ATHLETIC DEPT. AND STUDENTS__OUR PLAYERS WILL GET THE MESSAGE AND MAYBE EVEN OUR COACHES TOO!!! KICK THE HORSES' REARS!!!
←

It's absurd rants like this that cause some from the Belo owned DRC to call this "The Idiot Board." Speaking of Belo, they're a publicly traded company (BLC-NYSE) so to say they are "Dominated by SMU ownership" is retarded.

Stop making us look bad and perhaps ask Dale Carnegie for your money back.

TIgreen01 · July 19, 2006

Class Warfare?????
Come on get real.......
If you are always setting SMU on a higher and more powerful pedistal than UNT then they will always be more elite and UNT will always be 2nd class. Therefore they have WON!
Pyschologically SMU has already beat you everytime you elevate their status in these posts. If you do not believe me ask Dr. Phil.
Please get away from the class warfare crap.
←

Please. I don't see how you beat yourself b/c you think another person is arrogant. Now, if you think that their arrogance is well earned and that they are truly better than you, yes...you have a problem.

I don't think the class warfare argument is too far offbase...regardless of how many rich alums we have. The simple fact is that the identity of UNT is as a place where you EARN your degree. It's a university that still hasn't shaken the commuter school tag in many people's minds--however unfounded that tag is. Above and beyond that, this is about public vs. private. There is a perceived "class" separation in those 2 words alone.

So no, I don't think that the smuuers are better than us...and I sure as heck don't put them up on a pedestal. That said, I don't hate them as much as most on this board do.

oh....seems like there was an argument awhile back about a song that should be played at the start of the game on 9/9.....how about Aerosmith's 'Eat the Rich'?? Seems like a perfect fit to me.

FirefightnRick · July 19, 2006

Excellent post DallasGreen.

Rick

Bryan316 · July 19, 2006

I don't know about class warfare, but we do need to treat it like prison. The first day, you go beat someone down and establish that you aren't to be messed with. The team steps onto the turf and "Baylor"'s the crap out of them.

pollock · July 19, 2006

I don't know about class warfare, but we do need to treat it like prison. The first day, you go beat someone down and establish that you aren't to be messed with. The team steps onto the turf and "Baylor"'s the crap out of them.
←

Damn good way to look at it.

Quoner · July 19, 2006

I don't know about class warfare, but we do need to treat it like prison. The first day, you go beat someone down and establish that you aren't to be messed with. The team steps onto the turf and "Baylor"'s the crap out of them.
←

But unlike prison, the person you shank doesn't get to beat the living crap out of you the next time he sees you like Baylor did.

drex · July 19, 2006

I think that DallasGreen's 'ravings' are a carefully calculated shot at Dickey. Ole Darrell and the rest of the coaching staff hve never seemed to have a feel for the importance of out of conference games. DallasGreen has just given them a wake up call....we hope.

UNT_playmaker · July 19, 2006

Dallas Green, you wrote a superb post about the importance of this game on and off the field, excellent job.

Best Post of the Year

Quoner · July 19, 2006

Dallas Green, you wrote a superb post about the importance of this game on and off the field, excellent job.
Best Post of the Year
←

Yes - if you represent the Best Post Committee of the "subtle hints of an inferiority complex" Hall of Fame.

EagleD · July 19, 2006

I would take the option of beating the defending national champ. The exposure would be GREAT, it's the last game in our contract so they couldn't dump the remaining games, and it would personally give me greater joy than beating SMU.

Realistically, beating SMU is a more logical goal and we need to build that rivalry. We need to build rivalries wherever we can, and the metroplex is the most logical place to start.

In Austin I expect to see us play the second string after the first quarter, and not throw the ball, then surprise SMU with an air attack.

I've been praying for that sneak air attack for about ... how long has DD been our HC?

GO MEAN GREEN !!!!!!!

I posted tis in the wrong thread, sorry.

Edited July 19, 2006 by EagleD

SouthernMustang · July 20, 2006

Class warfare? What? That is absurd..

I would say that the the % of kids that get things handed over to them immediately when they graduate from college, or don't have to work and live off of trust-funds at SMU is about 33.333% (1/3). That is high but it's clearly not everyone or even the majority. There are students that struggled to pay for SMU and are working their asses off in the workplace, just as there are grads of TCU, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Duke, and even <gasp> Harvard doing the same.

You can make fun of "contacts," but any business person will tell you who you know is more important than what you know. SMU and some private schools provide the opportunity to make important contacts -- but if you don't take advantage of them, having an SMU degree does you no good.

CampusDirt.com puts up the school's financial profiles. And 56% of students parents at SMU make $200,000 or more. And while $200,000 is a nice chunk of change to make per year, that's not "filthy rich" where the kid can just inherit a massive trust and never work again. And 44% of the parents make $199,999.99 or less.

Honestly, while going to SMU, no one ever talked about money or what their parents did for a living. It's pretty relaxed and everyone hangs out like normal college students. Yeah, everyone's preppy and most people are in fraternities and sororities. But it's really not that different. It'd be like taking the greek system at Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Ole Miss, etc. as it's own institution. It's not as if SMU students sit around with each other talking about how great it is to be "rich" and laughing at the "poor people" who have to attend "blue collar colleges."

And I wouldn't call any college or university blue-collar.. that's why a lot of people go to college, so they don't have to work a blue-collar job. And while UNT is certainly a more affordable option, a blue-collar guy would still have trouble paying for his children to attend an institution that cost $12-$15k total per year.

Green Grenade II · July 20, 2006

Class warfare? What? That is absurd..
I would say that the the % of kids that get things handed over to them immediately when they graduate from college, or don't have to work and live off of trust-funds at SMU is about 33.333% (1/3). That is high but it's clearly not everyone or even the majority. There are students that struggled to pay for SMU and are working their asses off in the workplace, just as there are grads of TCU, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Duke, and even <gasp> Harvard doing the same.
You can make fun of "contacts," but any business person will tell you who you know is more important than what you know. SMU and some private schools provide the opportunity to make important contacts -- but if you don't take advantage of them, having an SMU degree does you no good.
CampusDirt.com puts up the school's financial profiles. And 56% of students parents at SMU make $200,000 or more. And while $200,000 is a nice chunk of change to make per year, that's not "filthy rich" where the kid can just inherit a massive trust and never work again. And 44% of the parents make $199,999.99 or less.
Honestly, while going to SMU, no one ever talked about money or what their parents did for a living. It's pretty relaxed and everyone hangs out like normal college students. Yeah, everyone's preppy and most people are in fraternities and sororities. But it's really not that different. It'd be like taking the greek system at Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Ole Miss, etc. as it's own institution. It's not as if SMU students sit around with each other talking about how great it is to be "rich" and laughing at the "poor people" who have to attend "blue collar colleges."
And I wouldn't call any college or university blue-collar.. that's why a lot of people go to college, so they don't have to work a blue-collar job. And while UNT is certainly a more affordable option, a blue-collar guy would still have trouble paying for his children to attend an institution that cost $12-$15k total per year.
←

Er, SouthernMustang...Glad you made this post. I hope you plan on attending this game at Fouts Field on September 9th. I hope you have a really good time and enjoy your trip back after we've beaten the holy crap out of your Ponies. Like Dallas Green said....it's class warfare!!! We are just better than SMU when it comes to playing football at Fouts Field. You probably were not born yet when we beat "the Mustangs" at Fouts in 1990.

meangreendork · July 20, 2006

I follow Bryan's lead here...the first home game, it's important to thrash the opposition for both the record, for the coming teams, and for the fans.

It's not a class thing at all, by that logic, then I should probably hate one of my closest friends because her family is very much white collar (or coat, actually) and my family is anything but. Her family easily has the needed money to send her to SMU, but she picked NT, and that's who she supports.

SilverEagle · July 20, 2006

Class warfare? What? That is absurd..
I would say that the the % of kids that get things handed over to them immediately when they graduate from college, or don't have to work and live off of trust-funds at SMU is about 33.333% (1/3). That is high but it's clearly not everyone or even the majority. There are students that struggled to pay for SMU and are working their asses off in the workplace, just as there are grads of TCU, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Duke, and even <gasp> Harvard doing the same.
You can make fun of "contacts," but any business person will tell you who you know is more important than what you know. SMU and some private schools provide the opportunity to make important contacts -- but if you don't take advantage of them, having an SMU degree does you no good.
CampusDirt.com puts up the school's financial profiles. And 56% of students parents at SMU make $200,000 or more. And while $200,000 is a nice chunk of change to make per year, that's not "filthy rich" where the kid can just inherit a massive trust and never work again. And 44% of the parents make $199,999.99 or less.
Honestly, while going to SMU, no one ever talked about money or what their parents did for a living. It's pretty relaxed and everyone hangs out like normal college students. Yeah, everyone's preppy and most people are in fraternities and sororities. But it's really not that different. It'd be like taking the greek system at Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Ole Miss, etc. as it's own institution. It's not as if SMU students sit around with each other talking about how great it is to be "rich" and laughing at the "poor people" who have to attend "blue collar colleges."
And I wouldn't call any college or university blue-collar.. that's why a lot of people go to college, so they don't have to work a blue-collar job. And while UNT is certainly a more affordable option, a blue-collar guy would still have trouble paying for his children to attend an institution that cost $12-$15k total per year.
←

I've read that amongst the rich it's considered bad manners (or not cool if you will) to talk about money. So, just because they don't talk about it, doesn't mean that they aren't rolling in it.......and know that they're rolling in it.

Whenever I think about the perceived (at least my perception anyway) social differences between North Texas students and SMU (and even TCU) students I think of the old Billie Holliday song "God Bless the Child".*

Them thats got shall get

Them thats not shall lose

So the Bible said and it still is news

Mama may have, papa may have

But God bless the child thats got his own

Thats got his own

Everything that famous and/or high profile North Texas alumni have accomplished they did on their own. For that matter, everything that the University has accomplished, it accomplished on it's own.

No special legislative funding (ie UT & A$M) or large private endowments (SMU, TCU, Rice etc) helped North Texas accomplish it's reputation as an outstanding institution of higher learning.

We did it on our own.....God Bless us.

* BTW, as much as I admire Billie Holliday as an artist, my favorite version of this song is by Blood Sweat and Tears.

Edited July 20, 2006 by SilverEagle