Interesting POV from one D 1 coach

[meangreendork]

02-03 season. 30-40? Didn't ever see that. Might have happened, but never noticed any significant activity from the people who I thought were Talons.

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And that was...what, 3 years ago? Meaning that your statements really don't carry much water, do they? It's alot like complaining about food you've never tasted.

If you sat in the Pit Crew's section last spring, it was as simple as turning around. What Emmitt did was kind of uncalled for, though. Didn't see him much after that game, or at least, in Pit Crew's section. Now I'll admit there should have been more activity for the BB games in the fall. But there was activity for the soccer and volleyball games...that usually don't draw much attendance these days.

Edited June 11, 2006 by meangreendork

[Bryan316]

02-03 season. 30-40? Didn't ever see that. Might have happened, but never noticed any significant activity from the people who I thought were Talons.

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Wow. So all of your Talons knowledge about basketball attendance is from 3 years ago? And because it happened 3 years ago, it's still going on? I wasn't around at that time, so I can't say what it was like. However, both of the past Spring semesters have encouraged attendance (the "new" leadership) more than the old leadership did.

Seriously, before you post something about Talons that's negative, make sure it's still going on or that you're not just taking someone's word for it. Seriously, if I were you, my face would be red.

I'll thank Zeke for the support, though the shot at the end wasn't really needed. The basketball season starts mid-November, which is around the time most students- Talons, greek, or average Joe- start to prepare for final exams and moving out of the dorms. Attendance was encouraged, though. And no, I'm not using studying and packing as an excuse, but a reason.

Does all of this board's Talons hatred stem from outdated information and propaganda spread by a few people?

[Zeke]

The Talons came alive in the Spring semester during bball last year.  New leadership I was told.  Starting in January, EVERY game they were there with their banner and cheering. 

In the Fall they simply weren't there.  Emmitt pissed them off last fall constantly telling a group of sitting Talons , "Calm down - you are getting too rowdy".

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Where in this do you read a shot at the Talons?

[emmitt01]

Where in this do you read a shot at the Talons?

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When you are taken to task concerning your shortcomings and have a bruised ego it's easy to see yourself being slighted wherever you turn.

[meangreendork]

Is that all you have, Emmitt? Don't you have more misinformation to distribute? More out-of-date, assumption-filled statements to make? I mean, of the 35+ members, only Bryan and I really look at the GMG.com board, so we can't really speak on behalf of everyone else as it concerns feelings. I mean, you're already assuming one person is speaking as a whole for everyone else.

You've somehow managed to convince some people that all Talons does is show up at football games and does nothing else. I can tell you, from personal experience, and from talking to younger members, that at this point, being a Talon can be almost like having another job, especially if you're a member that likes to be at absolutely everything. But with the members at 35+, we can't all make the same schedules and be at the same things- which means we have to run a lot of different things at one time. That alone means we have to keep our schedules filled.

I didn't take the statement that way, though the way it's placed (now that I see it again) might not sound that great.

-nothing against Zeke, I know I was pretty pissed off about Emmitt yelling that out-

Or maybe, Bryan's sick of hearing someone complain about something they don't want to fix, and won't even go to the "new-new" leadership (this said since the exec board has changed alot even since I was on it) to fix. And even if you did come around about it, it was always in a horribly biting, condescending manner. I don't know about you, but it's not easy to keep someone's attention if you do nothing but complain and stop there with any sort attempts to make things better.

It's alot like being the guy that doesn't vote, but continually expresses his own dissatisfaction with the current presidential administration.

It looks as if this "new leadership" you were complaining about has cycled out. I mean, you won't even consult current leadership to find about a program that's been running for three years. I understand that you can't be on campus since the PD's got you more than occupied, but it doesn't take more than a few minutes to place a phone call.

Go Mavs.

Edited June 12, 2006 by meangreendork

[Guest e-bone]

Wow.  So all of your Talons knowledge about basketball attendance is from 3 years ago?  And because it happened 3 years ago, it's still going on?  I wasn't around at that time, so I can't say what it was like.  However, both of the past Spring semesters have encouraged attendance (the "new" leadership) more than the old leadership did.

Seriously, before you post something about Talons that's negative, make sure it's still going on or that you're not just taking someone's word for it.  Seriously, if I were you, my face would be red.

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Do you have trouble comprehending English? I know you have a hard time writing it, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case. You asked what season was my first here at UNT, in which I replied that the 02-03 season was my first and I have missed I believe 2 mens games in that span. For the slow people, that means I have attended all but 2 games since the 02-03 season. By the way, that is 4 seasons, not 3. I guess math isn't your strong point either. So no, my face is not red. But while we are giving each other advice, if I were you I would check out the remedial English and math classes. You will need those before you move onto your basic core curriculum. Also, kudos on stressing attendance for half of each of the last two seasons. I guess that is something to brag about?

[FirefightnRick]

It's alot like being the guy that doesn't vote, but continually expresses his own dissatisfaction with the current presidential administration.

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Speaking of voting, do you ever see it as a possibility that the very bad idea of eliminating alumni from being able to vote at elections a few years ago to be reversed? Or has it already?

Rick

[emmitt01]

Is that all you have, Emmitt? Don't you have more misinformation to distribute? More out-of-date, assumption-filled statements to make? I mean, of the 35+ members, only Bryan and I really look at the GMG.com board, so we can't really speak on behalf of everyone else as it concerns feelings. I mean, you're already assuming one person is speaking as a whole for everyone else.

You've somehow managed to convince some people that all Talons does is show up at football games and does nothing else. I can tell you, from personal experience, and from talking to younger members, that at this point, being a Talon can be almost like having another job, especially if you're a member that likes to be at absolutely everything. But with the members at 35+, we can't all make the same schedules and be at the same things- which means we have to run a lot of different things at one time. That alone means we have to keep our schedules filled.

I didn't take the statement that way, though the way it's placed (now that I see it again) might not sound that great.

-nothing against Zeke, I know I was pretty pissed off about Emmitt yelling that out-

Or maybe, Bryan's sick of hearing someone complain about something they don't want to fix, and won't even go to the "new-new" leadership (this said since the exec board has changed alot even since I was on it) to fix. And even if you did come around about it, it was always in a horribly biting, condescending manner. I don't know about you, but it's not easy to keep someone's attention if you do nothing but complain and stop there with any sort attempts to make things better.

It's alot like being the guy that doesn't vote, but continually expresses his own dissatisfaction with the current presidential administration.

It looks as if this "new leadership" you were complaining about has cycled out. I mean, you won't even consult current leadership to find about a program that's been running for three years. I understand that you can't be on campus since the PD's got you more than occupied, but it doesn't take more than a few minutes to place a phone call.

Go Mavs.

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First off, show me any "misinformation" that I've disseminated. Talons in the past 3-4 years has been outdone and outshone by average Joe students consistently. I have better things to do with my time than to lie about an organization that is a shadow of its former self.

Second, Talons is a full-time job? Congratulations son, that means that you've just about BEGUN to feel what being a Talon should be like. Saying that Talons is a time consuming, exhaustive undertaking is not exactly trumpeting breaking news. It's nothing to brag or whine about. It's called dedication...something that Rick's, and my, generations knew about in spades.

So you still do campus cleanup and go to a lot of events. How very cutting edge of you. Here's an idea for the current Talons...and I'll put it in bold for the reading impaired...find something that is hindering campus wide pride and progress and do something NEW about it. Seriously, when was the last time anyone looked at Talons and said "what a fresh and new idea, I'm glad they're on the job"? The day that Talons again does the dirty work for the betterment of the university and not to thump their chests again will be the day I fall silent in my criticism.

And, most importantly, as to my "being the guy that doesn't vote and complains" how exactly do you propose I go about rectifying the situation. Talons alum (in a move that is unfathomable) can't even vote in Talons meetings. This is a courtesy and sign of respect that NO TALON that I came up with or spoke with from years past would have dared take away. It seems that the extent of interaction between the old and new guard lately has consisted of "thanks for fixing the model-A and giving us a bell...now go away." Kids sure do love their toys. I would GLADLY come to meetings to offer insight, ideas, or just a little historical perspective. I'M OFF OF WORK EVERY SINGLE WEDNESDAY. I just won't hold my breath for the invitation...reaching out to those who have gone before you does in fact require that you be willing to accept criticism and observations.

And does it not strike you or Bryan that people who aren't in and never were in Talons can see the glaring shortcomings? What vested interest or agenda could they possibly serve? I don't recall being taken to task when I was in school...were the detractors just that quiet or were they maybe too busy being made involved by a Talons organization that was consistently visible and active? Hmmm

[meangreendork]

Begun to feel what being a Talon should be like? No, it's been like this for some time now.

And it's more than just going to events, it's also helping in their running and also running them.

I'll applaud Rick- he's the alumni that would really be type where voting would more than deserved. Why? Because he contributes. Rick should be given a vote because he participates and puts forth effort and is there.

And you? You sit and complain. And complain.

And to only two members of the organization. Funny thing is, the rest of the membership doesn't know who you are. The membership has cycled so much since then that the older members have vague information about you. Meanwhile, the guys behind the cannon and the Model A are fresh in everyone's mind. Not solely because of their involvement in those very important symbols, but because the membership sees them, and watches them in action. They hear their names during the new membership meetings and they hear their names in discussion during the games.

Maybe you've been forgotten. And honestly, if you're going to do nothing but speak lowly about other people besides Bryan and I who do put so much work into the organization, maybe you deserve that. I know that I complained about the football team last fall and I'm sure I'd deserve a major snubbing by them if I tried to shake any player's hand.

Don't forget that there are still people that care dearly about the organization, enough to push themselves to their breaking points to keep it going. People who've sacrificed a letter grade, who've given up time they could spend at another job, time they can spend with people they care about. While they may not be the most innovative people and might not draw the media blitz, that doesn't make their efforts any less valuable.

But you, you thump your chest. You constantly applaud yourself for how you kept things running with only 8 members. And that is a true feat, especially with the athletics program being nearly a waste during that period of time. Did anyone back then know about Talons? Honestly, did they?

How often does any Talon, Bryan, myself or any show us here and start patting our backs about anything we've done? Almost never. Matter of fact, just about anything we've said, especially now, has been in defense of the people currently in the organization. And this time, to correct an entirely erroneous statement on your part.

Just simply saying that the program may no longer exist caused a few people to form

ranks behind you, none of them bothering to double check what you said.

Up until this point, we've stayed pretty silent, even with the board raging about what's wrong with the organization. Many of those things were problems- divisiveness within the membership due to social groups, lack of participation in university events outside of athletics and others are either addressed, or being worked on. I remember back when you and I went over many of the problems in the organization, and that many of these problems stemmed from the people in charge. The changes won't happen overnight, but they're taking place and some are already fixed. While you've been complaining about the supposed "new leadership" many of them had already graduated or left. Many of the people you and I both agree were bad for the organization left fairly soon after I joined back in 2003. More left as time passed.

As a matter of fact, I'm certain you would have difficulty recognizing a majority of the organization now. Especially since so many have joined within the last 12 months.

Now, before we go on about who's thumping chests, it's you that's done that more than anyone else. I'm sure it was easy back then, with only 8 people, to motivate everyone to do everything. Small numbers are easy to influence, especially if they're all very like-minded. It's even easier since there are less schedules to work around. At this point, the organization is larger than just 8-10 people, some of which aren't big sports fan, but they're there because they love the school and what it's done for them. Because of that, the leaders have to shape events around the schedules of who can make what, and when the events are being held.

Emmitt, stop complaining and do something about it. I know for a fact that Coach Dickey probably doesn't care about what I have to say because I'm not at the practices, not in the locker room, and not on the bus between games. And because of that, it's entirely logical to dismiss everything I have to say, especially since like a lot of fans, I only speak well when the team wins, and I speak negatively of him otherwise.

Now, if you'd actually participate and possibly be a little more positive about what the members are doing, then they'll start to see who you are and how important you were and how important you can be again to the organization. Those same members who may not have liked you before are basically gone, and those who know about you don't have an opinion either way. And up until now, I'd been pretty neutral about you. Step up, be there, and let the membership know that an alumni vote won't be used by uninformed alumni.

You can step up and lend your experience to the new leadership and become part of something you helped build. Or, you can be forgotten as more and more membership graduates and be nothing more than a ghost and a name on the alumni list.

[Bryan316]

Do you have trouble comprehending English? I know you have a hard time writing it, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case. You asked what season was my first here at UNT, in which I replied that the 02-03 season was my first and I have missed I believe 2 mens games in that span. For the slow people, that means I have attended all but 2 games since the 02-03 season. By the way, that is 4 seasons, not 3. I guess math isn't your strong point either. So no, my face is not red. But while we are giving each other advice, if I were you I would check out the remedial English and math classes. You will need those before you move onto your basic core curriculum. Also, kudos on stressing attendance for half of each of the last two seasons. I guess that is something to brag about?

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Actually, they way you wrote it made it sound like that was the last season you attended. If you would have said "Since 02-03" or "Starting in 02-03" it would have come across as you meant for it to. Concerning my grasp of english, while there may be an abundance of commas, they are not misplaced. It's one thought broken up with asides that do not require their own sentence. A bit wordy, possibly, but not entirely incorrect. FYI, I was done with my basic core curriculum by the time your first basketball season concluded, so you're a bit late with the recommendations. I do thank you, though, as your concern is very much appreciated.

Where in this do you read a shot at the Talons?

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When you made the point about not being there in the Fall. It seemed from my side that while you did stick up for us with your first point, you went out of your way to repeal your support. I do sincerely apologize if this wasn't the case. If it read something similar to, "While they aren't there in the Fall, the Talons came alive in the Spring semester during bball last year. Starting in January, EVERY game they were there with their banner and cheering" then I might not have responded as I did. I still thank you for the first part, though. It's rare that someone say something positive about us.

By my count, last season had 4 men's games and 7 women's games before Christmas break. Arguable, that is not half the season. I covered why we weren't out in full force earlier. As far as the few games over Christmas break, not everyone lives in the immediate metroplex and can get away from work or family. Many students take advantage of every available hour to work over the holidays, and I don't blame them. However, once the dorms reopened, we do show up at every game.

Emmitt, I'm not sure exactly where to start. I guess I can start with the generation thing. What I posted in my deleted/missing post was that every generation will see theirs as the best because they were part of it. I don't know what you or Rick or whoever did during your years; all I know is what I've experienced. When I joined in Fall 03, many of the active members were there more because their friends were in it than their own sense of school pride and spirit, including at least half of my pledge class. The following Spring, many of them left. A lot of them followed their friends out, some were up for the games but not into the service part, left because they just wanted to build bonfire once, or another reason. Over the last two years the Fall classes have been filled with people that have pride and spirit for NT. I've seen what to me is the old leadership filter out and the new leadership step in and right many of the wrongs that members felt existed. I know that you don't attend the officer-election meetings, but everyone's speech includes points about Talons being their family, and it's not just a "cheap pop" line. They joined for the spirit found others like them. For these people and myself, my generation will be the one I think of as "the best" because I knew them and served with them. When someone asks "What happened to all the Talons?" I'll see fit to post the friends I knew, just as you do.

The organization doesn't come on here and chest-thump because that's not what this membership group is about. Most of our stuff is done on campus for the students and that's usually where it stays. This board, from what I can tell, is primarily alumni that are not on campus except for sports or NTExes events. This isn't meant to be a slight, but an observation. Average Joe student doesn't come to this board or many events. The whole of this board is a spirited group, as are those that attend games. The day the true average Joe decides to stand up and cheer, they aren't an average Joe anymore. I understand where you were going with that, though, and I'll save that for another time.

Emmitt, if you recall, you and other alumni came to the bonfire dinner in Fall 2004. That was the first large, spirited incoming group that I was witness to, and they were very receptive of the stories that Jody and the others told. That night, you or one of the other alumni present proposed an alumni liason between that committee/the membership and the alumni at large. A large majority was in favor of that, but it never came to be, and relations between the current membership and the alumni have continued to sour. I'm honestly not sure what happened with that plan other than it fell through. However, it was an invitation be closely involved with the organization. That option may still be available, so please consider asking the leadership about it.

Rick, I'm not entirely sure about what happened behind the scenes concerning eliminating the alumni voting privleges. I can speculate that over past elections it seemed that no alumni came up to vote so it was taken out. I don't recall it being discussed, just voted on. Like I asked Emmitt to consider, please think about contacting the leadership themselves and see what can be done.

I don't know where everyone draws the line between the old and new guard, but I don't think a lot of "my guard" come off as "thanks for fixing the model-A and giving us a bell...now go away." Those that are involved with the "toys" that we kids love are thankful for them and do their best to keep them up. Maybe it's just those that are closely associated with the cannon, car, and tug that seem to care, but please don't just gloss over them. They've spent time after the football game with Rick trying to solve Boomer's firing problem, and they spend hours of their own time changing oil, fuses, batteries, and whatever else goes wrong with the "toys." Taken from the recent thread about Boomer, we're thankful for them even if the admin/AD doesn't seem to be.

To be entirely open, I've been for alumni participation and I've been against it. I'm against it if all it consists of is posting dissatisfaction on a message board that only 2 current members read. I'm all for it if it's actually participation. I was the Alumni Committee Head in Fall 2004 (hence the mexican food that you wanted), and was hindered by a poor communication website. Now that there is the alumni Yahoo! group, I don't know why it isn't being used to keep everyone up-to-date. Well, I guess the coup that was discussed might keep active members from doing so. If you saw the volleyball coach thanking us for being there along with the ever-present parents and boyfriends, the members toughing out softball games as the temperature drastically dropped, the fact that we make up the majority of students at women's basketball games, would you really question our spirit and call for over-throw and reform?

My father was in Talons, and that was the principle reason that I went to the info meeting and later joined the group. I'm a fourth-generation student and I've been on campus since I was in the womb (no joke), and I'm sure there are people on here that know one or both of my parents. Please don't talk down to me like I just found out what "spirit" is or what traditions bring to the university. I could argue that "tradition" runs through my family, as roughly 30 of my mom's relatives have attended or graduated from NT. Hell, the logo/plaza on the Willis Mall-side of the Admin building is dedicated to my great-great aunt Grace Cartwright, the first woman on the Board of Regents. My maternal grandmother is on the Gulf Coast alumni board. Mom is on the Dallas County board, and both her and Dad are part of the President's Council. That may not mean much to the board, but it helps qualify where I'm coming from.

Posting on here can't initiate the positive change you want. Yes, I can say that I don't like how my city/state is being run, but if I don't call my congressman and address my issues, how are they to know that I have issues in the first place?

[Quoner]

I don't know about you, but it's not easy to keep someone's attention if you do nothing but complain and stop there with any sort attempts to make things better.

It's alot like being the guy that doesn't vote, but continually expresses his own dissatisfaction with the current presidential administration.

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Careful, you'll shut down the board with thinking like that...

[UNTLifer]

Who would've thought a thread about Urban Meyer and his attitude toward the students and fans at UofF would have turned into a multiple page thread?

[SilverEagle]

Who would've thought a thread about Urban Meyer and his attitude toward the students and fans at UofF would have turned into a multiple page thread?

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Well.....me for one. People on this board can (as my dear departed mother-in-law would say) "jump on their horses and gallop off in all directions" faster than just about any other group of people I've ever been around.

[Baby Arm!]

Who would've thought a thread about Urban Meyer and his attitude toward the students and fans at UofF would have turned into a multiple page thread?

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All it takes is for a couple of Talons to get their panties in a wad over a little criticism, Be it real or perceived.

[Bryan316]

All it takes is for a couple of Talons to get their panties in a wad over a little criticism, Be it real or perceived.

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Actually, no. What we did was correct misinformation. The rest of it was a) in response to Emmitt, and brought on by his, and others, continued misinformed posts in a majority of the board's threads over the past few years. This is the first time this has gone down, so you have no reference point for what it "takes."

Edited June 14, 2006 by Bryan316

[meangreendork]

It was just supposed to be a correction about the t-shirt trading program that was said not be running when it had been since at least 2003. The two of us had actually been pretty quiet despite all of the previous critcism. But this one was pretty bad since an assumed statement had been taken (almost) as truth, and it really wouldn't be all that hard to find out the truth. It really makes me wonder about some people if they'll take one person's statement as truth and not even consider checking on it.

Especially if the person is rarely on campus during regular campus hours to be a reliable source.

Then all the craziness erupted.

[emmitt01]

Actually, no.  What we did was correct misinformation.  The rest of it was a) in response to Emmitt, and brought on by his, and others, continued misinformed posts in a majority of the board's threads over the past few years.  This is the first time this has gone down, so you have no reference point for what it "takes."

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Wouldn't this post carry a bit more weight if you actually had a "b" to follow your "a"? Have we never been taught how to properly do an outline?

P.S. I know you actually had a "b" but it just makes a smiley face when you type it like that.

Edited June 14, 2006 by emmitt01

[meangreendork]

Bloody smileys.

[Baby Arm!]

Actually, no.  What we did was correct misinformation.  The rest of it was a) in response to Emmitt, and brought on by his, and others, continued misinformed posts in a majority of the board's threads over the past few years.  This is the first time this has gone down, so you have no reference point for what it "takes."

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Thank you for proving my point....again. Keep posting, the more you do the more you reinforce my original statement.

[Quoner]

All it takes is for a couple of Talons to get their panties in a wad over a little criticism, Be it real or perceived.

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Without Talons I'd never have a frame of reference to make many of the Eagle Angels seem somewhat attractive...

I keed because I love. My first wife was a Talon.

[Stan R]

Without Talons I'd never have a frame of reference to make many of the Eagle Angels seem somewhat attractive...

I keed because I love. My first wife was a Talon.

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[CMJ]

I hadn't really read this thread until Emmitt alerted me to it this afternoon on the phone. I am very far removed(several states), but that may give me more perspective.

First off to the current Talons. I wish I knew yall. I only get back to TX about once a year these days, and last year I wasn't able to swing by the Talons meeting(and the previous was for Emmitt's wedding). I was looking forward to meeting the current membership and seeing what makes yall tick.

I've heard alot of bad stories, but also some good things. But I tend to throw all of that out and make up my own mind. I do know that EJ tends to exaggerate at times.

Should yall do more? I have no doubt. And I say that because I know that during my time in Talons we didn't do half the stuff I dreamed of. Emmitt and I used to talk long into the night about things we could do with Talons. Some were accomplished, but a great many were not. If I could go backand redo my Talons years I would undoubtedly try harder to get my pet projects off the ground(like my Tradition markers, which I'm sure maybe 2 people other than myself even remember).

I would urge you to listen to the alumni, because we aren't just a bunch of blowhards. Yeah, some of the stories of things we did might be embellished a bit, but with expereince comes wisom. There are a great many of us that would love to help you. Will we be critical? Yes. But you have to realize that some of the alumni were damn critical of us in our years. I remember one Bonfire in particular where EJ and I almost came to blows with some of the "Old Guard" from then. It happens.

Those that have been there before are always going to think they can do a better job, because they know the pitfalls, etc. that can be avoided. There were semesters where apathy was prevalent in Talons during my years too...especially in the Spring. If we complain too much at times it's not just because we think we're "better than you", it might also be because we don't want yall to make some of the mistakes that we did.

***That still doesn't excuse you taking away Alumni voting rights. I couldn't believe that when EJ told me a year or so ago.

[GangGreen]

Man, I never really understood how closely the Talons resembled a fraternity.

So, do you guys get hazed and have a secret handshake?

[FirefightnRick]

Man, I never really understood how closely the Talons resembled a fraternity.

So, do you guys get hazed and have a secret handshake?

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No comment.

Rick

[Stan R]

So, do you guys get hazed and have a secret handshake?

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It would be a lot cooler if you did...