Say Goodbye to Fry Street

JayDub · May 5, 2006

Curtis Loveless (Lovelace) not sure of the correct spelling, is a local Denton businessman. He owns the parkinglot behind TJ's (Texas Jive now) and Cool Beans and between Oak and Hickory.

So...that's who I've never paid in the many years I've been parking in that lot.

meangreendork · May 6, 2006

-edit-

The city's gonna widen up the road to 3x3 over the course of 3 years. They're already supposed to be starting the surveying.

Anyways, I like a lot of the establishments along Fry and I'd hate to see them be replaced by big business. I'm not saying I don't like big business, but the Starbucks and all that needs to stay near the mall. There's a certain feel on Fry Street, and I don't want to lose it. This may mean Fry Street remains a little trashy, but sometimes, trashy isn't a bad thing at all.

Edited May 6, 2006 by meangreendork

Microxot · May 6, 2006

Did a search on dentoncad.com on Loveless and came up with the following:

LOVELESS FAMILY LTD P/S 101-111 WELCH $571,055

LOVELESS FAMILY LTP 1217 W OAK $134,583

LOVELESS FAMILY LTP 1120 W HICKORY $156,530

LOVELESS FAMILY LTP 1225 W OAK $35,200

LOVELESS FAMILY LTP 1211 W OAK $21,606

LOVELESS FAMILY LTP 1204 W HICKORY $38,932

That is all I could find under Loveless.

I did a search on Fry St and didn't see any loveless or multiple properties with the same owner.

Of course this is just info that is posted. There could always be stuff in the works.

Edited May 6, 2006 by Microxot

MeanMag · May 6, 2006

I would support this as long as there were bars there....

EagleChick03 · May 6, 2006

Tavern better stay put.

pollock · May 6, 2006

F that developer SOB. This aggression will not stand, man.

I don't want to see some freakin' Chotchkie's type joint where the Tomato is now. A major University deserves a scummy block of bars.

Next thing you know they'll be bulldozing Voertman's in favor of a Barnes and NOble and Old Navy.

PlummMeanGreen · May 6, 2006

-edit-
The city's gonna widen up the road to 3x3 over the course of 3 years. They're already supposed to be starting the surveying.
Anyways, I like a lot of the establishments along Fry and I'd hate to see them be replaced by big business. I'm not saying I don't like big business, but the Starbucks and all that needs to stay near the mall. There's a certain feel on Fry Street, and I don't want to lose it. This may mean Fry Street remains a little trashy, but sometimes, trashy isn't a bad thing at all.
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As in Mexia's Anna Nicole Smith, perhaps?

PlummMeanGreen · May 6, 2006

Many nostalgic & most memorable mammories from my Fry Street experience. 316 Fry Street was my mail address for my first couple of years in Denton, Texas, America. Did any of you ever live off (or near) Fry Street? What an eclectic environment and era at UNT especially as Nixon was ending the Viet Nam war.

NT Ex former Eagle Don Henley in an article I read about 2 years ago said when he and his family are at their Dallas home that he has driven up to campus on numerous occassions to (I presume) soak in his own recollections of his Denton days. He also said he still visits a couple of former professors when he makes his visits back to campus.

Edited May 6, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

Zeke · May 6, 2006

Many nostalgic & most memorable mammories from my Fry Street experience.
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Without a doubt

stebo · May 7, 2006

Tavern better stay put.
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The Tavern (like most of the bars) is not on Fry Street. The whole area is called Fry Street but Fry really is just the small strip of road that runs alongside the headshop, the corkscrew, and up to the Tomato. Most of the bars are on either Ave A (Tavern, Muthers, Inferno - formerly Rick's place, Kharma Cafe, etc...) or on Hickory (Cool Beans, Lou's, Riprocks, etc..)

Curtis is a poster on this board and big time supporter of the Mean Green. What he owns is the expansion side of Cool Beans, most of the parking on that side of the street, I believe he owns the building that holds some big coffee house - Uncommon Ground or something like that, and I think he owns the building that TJ's is in... The key to all of this is not really the buildings, it is the parking. In order to lease the building you have to show adequate parking to get your Certificate of Occupancy. I fought te city for many years and spent literally $30K getting the law changed from 1 spot per 100 sq feet to 1 spot per 400 sq ft when I owned the Tavern. It was because of this change in the law (actually, it is a city ordinance) that I was finally able to expand the Tavern... and that was a compromised deal... I wanted for the area to do away with the parking ordinance alltogether for that area - just like it is on the Square downtown. The corporate owners of Cool Beans, Lucky Lou's, and Riprocks fought me every step of the way because they saw Tavern as a threat (and deservedly so - we were kicking their asses and the guys that I sold to have continued to kick their asses). Everyone that thinks that group is filled with "hometown bars" is a little delusional - they are allegedly a fairly large, considerably wealthy, and influential property group with developments from Denton all the way to College Station.

The only real hometown owned places down there are Tavern, Muthers, The Tomato, and TJ's/Texas Jive. State Club turned into Jimmie Johns but it is just a franchise owned by the same buy that owned State Club - Kenny, so I would consider that hometown grown as well.

I think that there is one bar on Fry Street (the actual street) called Wings, but I am not sure if it is still around. Also, the old Jim's Diner became Bagheri's for awhile - and I think Curtis owns that building as well, just not sure if Bagheri's is still there or not.

As for the the conglomerate of Lou's, Cool Beans, and Riprocks - they are staffed by great employees and have a nice "hometown/homespun" feel to them; but the truth is - they are corporate owned by the same property development group and that group owns most of their own buildings as well as most of their own parking and most of everyone else's parking as well. They own the building that Muthers is in. I think that they tried to buy the Joe's Cleaners building but lost out on the bidding. That area is a really neat, nifty, creative college environment - but it allegedly has just as much corruption as any other major real estate venue would being so close to the University.

It would be kind of ironic for the Cool Beans group to lose their annex and their parking across the road; especially since they fought so hard to keep the ordinance the way it was. They would most likely not be effected by it short term, I don't see the city yanking anyone's CO over the parking - but their property values would probably drop considerably because any new business trying to occupy the space under a new owner/partnership would not be grandfathered into the buildings under the current statute.

BTW, these rumors have been going around since before I opened the Tavern way back in 1995... there is ALWAYS someone interested in buying up the property in that area and there are always bar owners squabbling with one another over the smallest of things... I know that I had my share of fights with the city as well as the MarPac Corporation that owns the "other" group of bars... I always tried to get all the indies to unite and fight them, the whole "there is strength in numbers" arguement... but when you are dealing with bar owners, egos get in the way of accomplishing anything. The only time we ever fought together on something, we had a resounding victory (moving the hours from midnight to 2 a.m.) - just think, if those knuckleheads could just work with one another a little bit, there would be no worries about Starbucks / Barnes and Nobles coming to Fry Street - but those folks simply do not work together on stuff. At least they didn't when I was around. Fry Street Fair would nearly get cancelled every year because some dumbass down there would want a "cut" from the Delta Lodge - because having the largest grossing sales day of the year wasn't enough for some dipshit. You could count on it like clockwork... and eventually, their greed (along with the City's Greed - they wanted their cut, too) did drive the Fair away.

Edited May 8, 2006 by stebo

adman · May 7, 2006

That area is a really neat, nifty, creative college environment - but it has just as much corruption as any other major real estate around the University.

I think you should consider tempering statements like this.

stebo · May 8, 2006

Ok, calm down - I want to be clear that all of this is rumor and that any greed is "allegedly" the story... allegedly

It is not like I owned a bar there for 7 years or anything. I think that was a vicious rumor, too...

Edited May 8, 2006 by stebo

GBarksdale · May 8, 2006

Did any of you ever live off (or near) Fry Street? What an eclectic environmet

I lived on West Hickory (929 W. Hickory, I believe), in that row of townhosues a couple blocks from campus when I was a student in the 80s. That area was great. Cool bars like the Library, the Green Derby (anybody remember that place?), and, of course, the [Flying] Tomato. On Saturday mornings after visiting these establishments, you could walk over to Jim's Diner on Fry St. and have a great hangover-reducing greasy breakfast.

I hope all this is just a rumor. Even though I don't live in Denton or Texas anymore, when I go back I always go by that area an it brings back a lot of great memories. So, for my own selfish sense of nostaligia, I'd like to keep it the way it.

GBarksdale · May 11, 2006

Well, I guess it's true. Sad.

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/...a.2e937a0f.html

eleazar · May 11, 2006

I lived on West Hickory (929 W. Hickory, I believe), in that row of townhosues a couple blocks from campus when I was a student in the 80s. That area was great...

Wow that's crazy. I lived at 929 W. Hickory. Those grey 2 story places. I can't remember which number, but it was one on the end. Number 9 maybe?

letsgiveacheer · May 12, 2006

Fry Street is "special" to all of us, especially those who did not commute. The buildings are all the same, the names have changed for the most past. Does anyone remember Ruby Begonia's Cosmic A-Go-Go?

I recall an article in the New York Times many years ago about Fry Street and its role in cultivating new forms of music.

It would be a shame if we lost this!

LongJim · May 12, 2006

Very interesting--not to mention gut-bustingly funny--comments to this situation

HERE.

Quoner · May 12, 2006

Very interesting--not to mention gut-bustingly funny--comments to this situation
HERE.

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Pretty funny stuff.

When is the last time Denton turned out a good band anyway?

Maybe Flickerstick, SouthFM and Bowling for Soup don't do it for me the way they did for some?

LongJim · May 12, 2006

Pretty funny stuff.
When is the last time Denton turned out a good band anyway?
Maybe Flickerstick, SouthFM and Bowling for Soup don't do it for me the way they did for some?
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I quite enjoy the Riverboat Gamblers. Jeff Sillie was a hoot while he was in Denton, as well, although I don't think his bands could be qualified as "good".

Those are two I've paid money to see, and there are others.

May 12, 2006

I quite enjoy the Riverboat Gamblers. Jeff Sillie was a hoot while he was in Denton, as well, although I don't think his bands could be qualified as "good".

Those are two I've paid money to see, and there are others.
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Flickrstick was from Ft. Worth ..

Baboon had some success in the recent past.

The music is Denton has been dead for 8 years. Ever since The Grown Ups called it quits and Rick's burned themselves down....

PlummMeanGreen · May 12, 2006

Flickrstick was from Ft. Worth ..
Baboon had some success in the recent past.
The music is Denton has been dead for 8 years. Ever since The Grown Ups called it quits and Rick's burned themselves down....
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JD, IMHO, UNT and Denton is a music factory and will never have a dearth of music talent whether it be groups or soloists. In fact, wonder who our next Norah Jones is going to be? My bet is she is strolling around Avenue C and beyond as we all post.

Quoner · May 12, 2006

JD, IMHO, UNT and Denton is a music factory and will never have a dearth of music talent whether it be groups or soloists. In fact, wonder who our next Norah Jones is going to be? My bet is she is strolling around Avenue C and beyond as we all post.
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True - I didn't say the classical and jazz talent was lacking - but the emo culture that that guy's blog entry mocks seems to have become a slight mirage.

It would be nice if one of our break out musicians actually hung around more than a year or two, too. Maybe then they would donate.

Maybe the next Deep Blue Something is finding Jesus at the cup instead of thrashing around Rick's.

MeanMag · May 12, 2006

Goodbye ugly buildings between fry street, welch, and hickory. And good ridance too.

I like fry st. but damn, it can be bought like everything else in this world. Maybe instead of complaining to the city about letting this happen people should start a group called "Keep Denton Dumpy" to come up with the money to buy up the properties to let the buildings stay. A large company wouldn't do something like this unless they think they could get a huge return. Think with the brains and not the sentiments. NT will see benefits from this.

Hell, opponents like SMU, Baylor, Tulsa that come to Denton might say, "That looks like a nice place to go spend money." instead of "Denton is a trashhole and UNT is in it."

GBarksdale · May 12, 2006

Very interesting--not to mention gut-bustingly funny--comments to this situation
HERE.

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GBarksdale · May 12, 2006

Wow that's crazy. I lived at 929 W. Hickory. Those grey 2 story places. I can't remember which number, but it was one on the end. Number 9 maybe?
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You're kidding!? I lived in number 9 in 1987-88. It was sort of in the middle of the row. Some cool guys lived in #19 and we used to have combined parties. It was a great place. When did you live there? If you lived in #9 after me, um, sorry about that upstairs toilet, man.