Your Chance to be Heard

UNTLifer · April 19, 2006

I am concerned regarding the revisions between the 3/26 version and the 4/13 Final Draft. I submitted my comments to the Provost.

Zeke · April 19, 2006

It appears to me that this portion was taken out of the final version.

STRATEGIC GOAL 4
Leveraging Student Success and Institutional Reputation through Athletics
Promote outstanding academic and athletic achievement among our student-athletes while showcasing UNT to the general public through regional and national media and hosted events.
Strategies:
4.1 Continue to build an academic environment that supports student-athletes, realizing retention and graduation rates at or above those of UNT’s NCAA counterparts;
4.2 Support student-athletes to maximize their intellectual and physical capabilities and compete in a manner befitting a major Division I-A program;
4.3 Build school spirit and increase alumni, faculty, staff and student participation in campus activities through increased participation in the game-day experiences and sporting events; and
4.4 Increase the visibility and reputation of the University through positive local, regional and national media exposure.
Performance Measures
Retention and graduation rates of student-athletes4.1
Won-loss records, conference standings and national rankings 4.2
Attendance reports, number of university, conference and regional events 4.3
Number of campus and network television appearances, newspaper and magazine articles and streamed video events 4.4

Why remove this???? The performance measures look like something we should be striving for.

Not that it matters, because I don't trust these feedback forms at all (I think they are quick to hit the recycle bin if they don't match what the powers think), but I think we should all do as Lifer has done and mention the omission of athletics in the final draft.

Edited April 19, 2006 by Zeke

Eagle1855 · April 19, 2006

did I miss it, or was there little/zero stated regarding athletics? am I to make assumptions here?

UNTLifer · April 19, 2006

did I miss it, or was there little/zero stated regarding athletics? am I to make assumptions here?
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It is mentioned in one sentence in the final draft.

LoveMG · April 19, 2006

sounds like athletics is being demoted to less than important, again

Eagle1855 · April 19, 2006

It is mentioned in one sentence in the final draft.
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oh ok, my mistake. WHEW, for a minute there I thought athletics might have been kicked down a notch or two on the ole ladder of importance. glad to see its where it's always been...

Edited April 19, 2006 by Eagle1855

TIgreen01 · April 19, 2006

nfm...

Edited April 19, 2006 by TIgreen01

kj86 · April 19, 2006

Sent an e-mail voicing my concerns.

UNTLifer · April 21, 2006

ttt

April 21, 2006

Sent an e-mail voicing my concerns.
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Who did you e-mail? address?

Zeke · April 21, 2006

Who did you e-mail? address?
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Provost_Comments@unt.edu

keith · April 22, 2006

"Student-Centered Education" ???? What dolt came up with that one?

I'm glad to see that the authors of those PowerPoints took some time to familiarize themselves with the new UNT branding initiative. Nice to see some consistency there.

Get ready to watch SWTSU, excuse me, Texas State, blow right past us.

I have a bad feeling about this.

Keith

the green rokemi · April 22, 2006

I have a bad feeling about this.
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Wasn't that said in a movie called The EMPIRE Strikes Back?

PlummMeanGreen · April 22, 2006

Strategic Plan
I am concerned regarding the revisions between the 3/26 version and the 4/13 Final Draft. I submitted my comments to the Provost.
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Don't know if any of you put much stock in dreams, but I did dream the other night that UNT-Dallas announced in the Dallas Morning News SportPage a $50 million/50,000 seat football stadium for its future. }:>(

To reiterate GrayEagleOne's question, UNTLIfer, who (specifically) did you email and what was his campus email address? His phone number?

Of course, just kiddin' on the dream part, but I do hope we don't have UNT leaders at the very top who are judging our Mean Green football potential and present fan support based on our annual "in conference" Bottom 10 competition, low attendance even during and after 4 bowl appearances, and, of course, very few OOC wins the last decade or so.

And FWIW, awards are very nice to get, but I do look forward when we have an NT head football coach (whoever it is) that gets "Coach of the Year' awards when we are in a football conference of which most of its football members are a least all competing at an NCAA D1-A Top 50-75 level. If you were honored as the best tennis player in your immediate family among all your siblings yet all those siblings were all your sisters, you going to go around beating your chest with that honor?

Also, IMO, many of our UNT constituency have got to eventually cease from being comfortable at being the best of the worst because that level of acceptance will still keep our average football attendance where it is now after 4 bowl games and that is at a 15,000 (+/-) per game level. It will also (IMO) eventually break the spirit (and future athletic budgets?) coming from certain kinds of NT leadership (now or in the future) who don't share the same passsion or enthusiasm for inter-collegiate athletics as most of us on this board have (yet preferably at a higher profile).

To quote one of you on this thread with some variance: We do have real reason to have concern in the UNT System, especially when you don't see the Norval Pohl-type passion for Mean Green athletics; and also (seemedly) at the top of our priority list is "not" trying to replace a 55 year old visually pink elephant of a stadium in Denton that is keeping us barefoot and pregnant as far as advancing our football program to a higher profile.

But rather now at the top our present NT leadership's priority list is trying to build (from scratch) an entirely new free-standing university campus in south Dallas County. One is going to prosper while the other is going to get short-changed; we just don't have the endowment in the UNT System that indicates other-wise. We are tying to fight our UNT System war for state and private fund-raising on too many fronts. If we had a $500 million endowment, it's a different story, but we have less than $40 million for the entire UNT System, folks.

Also, some of us might always ask the question that whatever monies are raised in Dallas County to help build this new university, why couldn't UNT-Denton over the last 100 plus years of existence received at least half or more of those monies in its onw fund-raising efforts for our Denton campus?

Like some of you have posted, I, too, just don't like the karma I am feeling about so many things happening at our alma mater and that seemed to begin almost from the day Norval Pohl announced his resignation. And we can sugar-coat all this all we want with our leaders, but wasn't the move of having a Chancellor who buys NT football season tickets and joins the MG Club just probably a recommendation from one of his office's inner circle (like perhaps one from that group who gave us the "Logo-Gate public relations disaster)? Wouldn't a staffer in any Texas university's chancellors or presidents offices' inner circle sorta suggest as one of the prioritiy things you would do would be to purchase FB seasons tickets and join the MG Club (whatever the level) and especially for Texas public university top official who has been on the NT campus less than 3 years?

Here we go, conspiracy theory on the way? No, not really, but am merely looking at the trends (which we don't seem to do enough at UNT) and the history of other universities in Texas and beyond who also were well known for having leadership that put varsity athletics on the back-burner; you know, such as the kind of thing that this new UNT Standard Plan might be hinting to us could soon be happening at UNT; and that is UNT-Denton, of course?

"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks likes a duck...........oh well, you know how the rest of all that goes.

Edited April 22, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

meangreen11 · April 22, 2006

Plumm are you incinuating that Judge Jackson's plan to develop UNT Dallas is a conspiracy that will ultimately lead to the downfall of UNT Denton? Those are very serious charges.

I do agree that the focus in Dallas could hinder new stadium plans in the short run. If UNT Dallas does take off it will help in the long run.

I just hate the way our alums are so distrustful of our own leaders. Its ludicrous to think that a man like Judge Jackson who has had by all accounts a stellar career in public service would try to harm UNT.

Why are UNT alums so paranoid?

PlummMeanGreen · April 22, 2006

Plumm are you incinuating that Judge Jackson's plan to develop UNT Dallas is a conspiracy that will ultimately lead to the downfall of UNT Denton? Those are very serious charges.
I do agree that the focus in Dallas could hinder new stadium plans in the short run. If UNT Dallas does take off it will help in the long run.
I just hate the way our alums are so distrustful of our own leaders. Its ludicrous to think that a man like Judge Jackson who has had by all accounts a stellar career in public service would try to harm UNT.
Why are UNT alums so paranoid?
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SUNDAY MORNING ADDITIONS

meangreen11, all I am saying is...........Give Peace A Chance!

OK, now to get serious, mg11, and in all fairness to Chancellor Lee Jackson, he was not (best to my knowledge) in the inner circle who made the decision from Denton and Austin for UNT (and the chosen few of those from UNT who make our decisions--both good or bad); anyway, it was those (then) UNT leaders (minus LJ) who threw our hat in the ring right along with the much better funded TAMU and Texas Tech Systems. It was a great photo op for UNT with (then) Governor George "W" Bush with hard hat on head (no comment) with all our NT Board of Regents, state Senator the honorable Royce West (who some of us saw play football for the UTA Mavericks) and all his south Dallas County crowd.

And there we were, the former "Teachers College of the North" right in the mix with the much better funded TAMU and TTU Systems vying for the "honor" (coupled with tremendous expen$e). And then our being picked by Texas state Senator Royce West and his constituency for the right to build the south Dallas County campus as to be part of the UNT System. UNT has traditionally had great rapport with Metroplex black leaders and politicos with all that largely based on our history of being the Texas collegiate pioneer in integrating a traditional caucasian Texas university as we did in the mid-1950's when most everyone in the Deep South (of which the "nation" of Texas is hardly a part of IMO:); anyway, while most in the Deep South were busing sending KKK members to the US Congress and mostly doing less than positive things with American blacks.

Yet with many of us, it is still mostly all about UNT's lack of an overall system financial endowment or its coffers that has been the main concern. Even GrayEagleOne (whose opinions and insights of UNT are respected my many of us) with GE1 who has been around the UNT and Mean Green scene as student and alum since the 1940'; anyway, what he recently posted just days ago was "if one really doesn't think UNT-Dallas will not affect funding (directly or indirectly) for UNT-Denton, then one is being quite naive' about all this." (I most liberally paraphrase GE1 on that particular post but that was the interrpretation I got out of it).

And the solution? What if UNT officials met with the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, swallowed a whole bunch of pride and just simply told that powerful board down in Austin that we of the UNT System just bit off more than we could chew and how we just cannot afford this south Dallas County campus and do justice to our over 100 year main campus in Denton and at our UNT Health Science Center @ Fort Worth?

FWIW, other campuses in Texas have been moved from one system to another so UNT officials would not be setting a precedent by doing this. Unless Mr. or Mrs. Big Donor step forward soon, in the opinoin of many, UNT-Dallas will stay at the top of Chancellor Jackson's priority list much moreso than a 55 year old eyesore of a stadium at UNT-Denton that should have been replaced at least a couple of decades ago.

Folks, a little more perspecitve: Since we've had Fouts Field as home of the Mean Green, the Dallas Cowboys will soon be playing in their 3'rd football stadium. Texas Stadium will soon enough (most likely) be a very large parking lot that America's Team has called home since 1971.

Just looking at the thread of Marshall's football stadium and another talking about UCF's and seeing what Troy U did with their's, it just seems we are getting further behind in Denton with our stadium plans. And now that Norval Pohl will soon be a part of UNT history, we have Lee Jackson who will play a big role in replacing him. Conspiracy? No, but just start looking at our program now. Start looking at the results which have us bogged down near the Bottom 10 of NCAA D1-A and we won't even talk about our basketball program and (still) how its remains dormant after all these years?

Conspiracy for those of you who can't or don't won't to see the trees for the forest with much of this? No, but look how we've made some semlbance of progress (compared to where we have been), but then see how se start our slow retreat which seems to be a mult-decades long UNT tradition (especially with athletics).

Just observe how we seem to be bogged down (again) in Mean Green Country with no significant monies raised toward a new football stadium; hellsbells, have our crack fund-raising team in Denton even raised enough for socks and jocks for the upcoming academic year for crissakes?!?!

And here we are at the crossroads once again with Mean Green athletics as a new football stadium had been projected to be completed by 2009? Anyone want to put some money on if that happens with present company at the top of the UNT administration who are probably doing what they think is best for all of us, but rather they seem to be spreading us thin with more projects than we have endowment to effectively cover.

Another GMG.com Negative Ned on the prowl here? No, just maybe more "Realistic Rob" talking instead. After all, all we have to go by with all this are the results and our present standing among the other 117 NCAA D1-A schools at the "Exentended Contract Capital of American College-dom, right, fellow NT Exes?

Edited April 23, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

the green rokemi · April 22, 2006

Plumm are you incinuating that Judge Jackson's plan to develop UNT Dallas is a conspiracy that will ultimately lead to the downfall of UNT Denton? Those are very serious charges.
I do agree that the focus in Dallas could hinder new stadium plans in the short run. If UNT Dallas does take off it will help in the long run.
I just hate the way our alums are so distrustful of our own leaders. Its ludicrous to think that a man like Judge Jackson who has had by all accounts a stellar career in public service would try to harm UNT.
Why are UNT alums so paranoid?
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If you understood the smuNT conspiracy you would not ask such questions...

UNTFan23 · April 22, 2006

Wasn't that said in a movie called The EMPIRE Strikes Back?
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Useless trivia: That quote has been in every single Star Wars movie.

PlummMeanGreen · April 23, 2006

SUNDAY EVENING REVISIONS:

I think most of us really don't believe in conspiracy theories in regard to most anything concerning UNT. Hellsbells, I still even believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and always felt that way soon after that nightmare of a November weekend in 1963.

Rather than UNT conspiracy theories that involve Mean Green athletics, I think most of us just look at results, how we (athletically) stack up against the rest of the 117 schools in NCAA D1-A (on the field of play and with overall facilities of schools our size and scope) and then (even more specifically) form our other opinions based on the reality of what we feel is happening with fundraising that is going toward a new football stadium @ UNT-Denton.

And for what its worth, if our UNT fund-raisers have not received an official charge from the Chancellor's Office to raise monies yet not necessarilly for a new football stadium in Denton..............then just why has all that been put on hold and just what are any such monies being raised would be a very big question from most any NT Ex or Mean Green fan. Such NT alums and fans who know the value (especially for an NCAA D1-A school in the Lone Star State) for a nice, new modern football stadium with all the latest ammenities in this new century we find ourselves a part of.

BTW, we are talking about a new football stadium that one UNT official projected would be completed by 2009. ANYHOOOOOO.....anyone out there have about $10 million additional dolllars to donate than what our present entire UNT System endowment is (& that under $40 million last count) and such a total amount of monies it will probably take to build a 40,000 seat stadium at Eagle Point Campus by the time we actually get around to builiding it?style_emoticons/

Anyone think our present high ranking UNT officials are really going to let that much ($50 million?) be spent out at the Mean Green Athletic Village (even if those monies would be spent for the single-most campus gathering spot that the largest majority of NT Exes will gather compared to any other given university event at its venue)? There are some things in Texas you just take care of and get out of the way and then you get back to your other school facility priorities.

Are NT Exes who graduated from UNT-Denton (which is presently every NT grad on record whatever that enormous number now is) going to really get that excited with the focus UNT-Dallas (and Dallas County, in general) is and has already taken away from our main campus? Anyone reading of a UNT Law School being placed on our Denton campus? Or even a UNT Pharmacy School for that matter? UNT-Denton has been in operatoin since 1890 and suddenly new UNT System upstarts are going to get the real prestigious academic programs because our Chancellor knows how to wheel and deal in Dallas? Some please bring a very big jar of Vasoline for NT Exes who graduated from the main campus. Is there any reason some of us shouldn't feel our main campus is getting short-changed? If so, please explain in detail, OK?style_emoticons/

AFTER ALL...THIS IS TEXAS WHERE FOOTBALL IS KING (isn't it)? Look at Texas high schools for a prime example. Any of you remember the last time strategic athletic facilities at 99.9% of Texas high schools were put on the back-burner in order to build a new Band Hall?style_emoticons/ How many folks would show for a band concert on a Fall Friday night in the Lone Star State compared to a Texas High School football game? Some of us who grew up in smaller Texas cities and played Texas HS football can tell you how our town's population could triple in size when those Friday Night Lights were turned on on Game Night--Friday. But as far as the fudning part of athletics at many of our Texas high schools, is this the way it really should all play out? Probably not, but this is (after all) Texas where Texans take care of their football programs needs then start raising monies from those very same Texas HS football fans to build those (also) much-needed new Band Halls out there.

Most Texas NCAA D1-A university officials would have no problem improving their stadium situations knowing how it can (and will) affect the long range bottom line and the "feel good about their alma mater" part among its alumnus base. I hope once all the dust settles with what our (still) somewhat new leaders at UNT's true philosophies of NT athletics will be, I hope they, too, won't have any problem with all this.

BTW, the GMG.com board conspiracy theories do make for good (and even sometimes funny) smack board fodder, though.style_emoticons/ We are a most opinionated group, now aren't we?style_emoticons/

meangreen11 · April 23, 2006

Plum you make some solid points. I think it all boils down to accountability. Who is responsible for fund raising? We have got to do a better job in that area.

meangreen11 · April 23, 2006

Plum you make some solid points. I think it all boils down to accountability. Who is responsible for fund raising? We have got to do a better job in that area.