The Big West Doesn't Count

NT80 · March 31, 2006

There is a competition for at-large bowl berths???
When is that held?
There are virtually no at-large bowl berths and the few that emerge tend to happen because a league didn't have enough teams qualify.
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Geez, you guys.

In 2000, or whenever SBC football was first conceived, there were far more opportunities for at-large bowl berths than today where even the 7th place Big 12 team has a guaranteed spot. It wasn't like that back then. But the SBC powers-to-be then didn't want to take that chance so they invented a Bowl in a convenient location to ensure a spot for their champ. The conversation was something like this: "What if our champ isn't invited to a Bowl, we'll look foolish? Well, then we'll start our own Bowl to "make sure". Brilliant!". OK, so it's a stretch, but you get the idea.

Last year when the hurricane washed out the New Orleans Bowl location, who wanted it? Lafayette...and maybe, maybe Shreveport? I'm sure Atlanta outbid many locations for the Sugar Bowl because of the potential big $$, but the SBC Bowl...? If all Conference Champs today were available to all Bowls for bid, would any outside the New Orleans Bowl dare bid for the SBC champ?? I think not.

It's a fine Bowl, that serves it's purpose, to host the SBC champ (because nobody else would want them).

The main point is that all those who say DD is a coaching-God because he took UNT to 4 Bowl games in the past 50 years is skewing the facts. UNT would have been in 2-3 Southland Bowls, nearly went (by 2 points) to the Boise Bowl in the BWC with a 3-8 record (the media would have loved that!), and it's best teams 9-2, 10-1 never went Bowling because it wasn't in a guaranteed bowl conference.

VideoEagle · April 1, 2006

The conversation was something like this: "What if our champ isn't invited to a Bowl, we'll look foolish? Well, then we'll start our own Bowl to "make sure". Brilliant!". OK, so it's a stretch, but you get the idea.
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So when the old Southwest Conference, after an undefeated UT team is not invited to a bowl, decides to start the Cotton Bowl, that's good. When the Sunbelt Conference does exactly the same thing, that's bad?

Don't try to get a way with a "things were different back then!" The Mountain West just did the same thing! The old Big West and the Mac combined to create the Las Vegas Bowl, which they paid for since there was no one wanted to make even a minimum sponsorship to the game. At least we got the local Wyndam hotels!

In 2000, or whenever SBC football was first conceived, there were far more opportunities for at-large bowl berths than today where even the 7th place Big 12 team has a guaranteed spot. It wasn't like that back then.
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Partially true, the 7th place Big 12 team didn't have a spot till the Ft Worth Bowl started. I've looked and can't come up with a bowl from 1999, 2000 or 2001 which had a designated "at-large" spot that was not allocated to a conference. They all stopped doing that in the late 80's and early 90's. You are saying we should have started a conference and depended upon one of the BCS conferences to not fill a slot.

I think started a new bowl - like every other conference in a similar situation has done - certainly make more sense!

The main point is that all those who say DD is a coaching-God because he took UNT to 4 Bowl games in the past 50 years is skewing the facts.
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Hating DD some much that everything he has done must be bad because DD did it skewing the facts. If a multi-year winning that streak of conference games was so easy, why is it that very few coaches at any level of competition have done it? DD is not God's Gift to coaching, but he certainly isn't anywhere near the worst coach in history. Even the history of NT - that's probably Bob Tyler. He couldn't even cheat very well!

badgerwolf · April 1, 2006

So when the old Southwest Conference, after an undefeated UT team is not invited to a bowl, decides to start the Cotton Bowl, that's good. When the Sunbelt Conference does exactly the same thing, that's bad?

Not the same, but similar is the new bowl game being sought for UNM primarily and NMSU secondarily. UNM had a winning season last year and did not get a bowl invite. Now ABQ (home of UNM) is trying to establish a bowl game that will benefit UNM and NMSU.

There is a detailed article in the 4-1-06 ABQ Journal that gives more insight into the reason for establishing the bowl. The article closes out with:

"And, of course, the underlying reason for all of this hubbub is to spur tourism. It's a no-lose situation . . . a pre-Christmas bowl and a tie-in with shopping."

(It appears the bowl will favor Regional teams with fans that travel enmasse and spend lots of money -- possibly not the team with the best W-L record?)

Edited April 1, 2006 by badgerwolf

eulesseagle · April 1, 2006

Hey guys---

dont brokeback mountain each other so much......

1. it was the fault of the university fathers that bent us over.

2. it was the university fathers that took us from independent to D-1AA

3. it was coach nelson that did more with less at NT in D-1AA than any other coach.

4. it was the university fathers that brought us out of D-1AA as an independent.

5. the "only" available conference that would accept us was the BWC.

6. the BWC disolves and the "only" conference available was the SBC.

7. NT has been rejected from CUSA once (maybe more).

8. NT rejected joining the WAC.

9. face it.......as Commander Cody once said, "stuck in the ozone again."

10. Since the mid-60's I really can not remember NT putting any $$ into athletics (other than "Jitter Nolan") who had the new Pit built. NT has been, pretty much, on the bottom rung of the ladder in coach's salary, budget, facilities, you name it the university fathers keeps the athletic $$$ strings held tight. IMHO, they do "just enough" to keep a program going.......and that is it!!!! NT has never paid a coach what other coaches, in similar situations, get!!! What does that tell you of the committment of NT since the mid-60's. GreyEagle may confirm this since he has been around since the first game was held where the university library stands. If you look close that is him front row center on the three-row bleacher.

11. IMHO, whatever NT does (or will do) it will be on a "shoestring" budget. Case in point.......i have seen pictures of the new stadium (i hope i spell CHEEEEEZEEEE correctly!!)......( for those of you who remember in the new pit the color of the original seats..."burnt orange" because they were cheaper and they were CHEEEEEEZEEEE. at that time it was like putting a hyundai engine in a mercedes.

12. IMHO, again, RV's hands are tied by the university fathers whose main intent is to build ...... at first TCOM and now UNT-Dallas. As long as the university fathers are building campus' then forget about a new CHEEEEEEEZEEEE stadium and building a championship golf course where the land was just donated to us. UNT might as well raise sheep for an "ag-exemption" and save a few bucks on taxes.

13. well, it's time for my labotomy......i meant a bottle in front of me.

April 1, 2006

What does that tell you of the committment of NT since the mid-60's. GreyEagle may confirm this since he has been around since the first game was held where the university library stands. If you look close that is him front row center on the three-row bleacher.
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I agree with most of what you said (but not all). But, since you asked for verification about coaches' salaries, I thought that I'd comment. The only coach that got a pretty competitive salary was....you guessed it....Hayden Fry. We couldn't actually afford Hayden so we combined the coach's salary with that of the athletic director and gave him both salaries (and both titles).

It turned out to be worth it. Hayden tapped into a couple of area residents with deep pockets and brought in more money for athletics in a few months than had probably been raised altogether previously. He also scheduled some money games and we weren't hurting financially for the firtst time in our history.

Believe it or not, we do have some monied alumni. There are a few that could write a check for the new stadium this year but haven't (or won't) commit. There are also some area businesses that can (and supposedly will) give some large donations. So, while we've often operated on a "shoestring," it doesn't necessarily mean that we must continue that way.

IMO, none of this will happen until we GET A COMMITTMENT from the Board of Regents and the administration. Allow as much of the existing development staff as possible to start a campaign with an announced goal and update commitments periodically. If an academic donor wants to be a part of the athletic success then, by all means, let them. If the committment from the hierchy is lukewarm, so will the giving.

SilverEagle · April 2, 2006

GreyEagle may confirm this since he has been around since the first game was held where the university library stands. If you look close that is him front row center on the three-row bleacher.
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That stadium was still there (well, mostly) in the mid-to-late 60's and I can confim that it had more than three rows I was on campus one spring with my HS band for a UIL contest. During a break, we stood out on the back entrance of the old Lab School and watched the spring Greek Olympics going on at old Eagle field.

You know, as I recall, the sight lines were better at Old Eagle stadium.

Arkstfan · April 2, 2006

Geez, you guys.
In 2000, or whenever SBC football was first conceived, there were far more opportunities for at-large bowl berths than today where even the 7th place Big 12 team has a guaranteed spot. It wasn't like that back then. But the SBC powers-to-be then didn't want to take that chance so they invented a Bowl in a convenient location to ensure a spot for their champ. The conversation was something like this: "What if our champ isn't invited to a Bowl, we'll look foolish? Well, then we'll start our own Bowl to "make sure". Brilliant!". OK, so it's a stretch, but you get the idea.
Last year when the hurricane washed out the New Orleans Bowl location, who wanted it? Lafayette...and maybe, maybe Shreveport? I'm sure Atlanta outbid many locations for the Sugar Bowl because of the potential big $$, but the SBC Bowl...? If all Conference Champs today were available to all Bowls for bid, would any outside the New Orleans Bowl dare bid for the SBC champ?? I think not.
It's a fine Bowl, that serves it's purpose, to host the SBC champ (because nobody else would want them).
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Actually Memphis, Birmingham, and Atlanta all made offers to host the New Orleans Bowl in addition to Shreveport and Lafayette. The New Orleans Bowl committee selected Lafayette because a significant number of the GNOSF members are there and in Baton Rogue and they wanted to remain active in the game.

Now back to 2000 when there were oh so many at-large berths. The open slots that year were in Las Vegas (Arkansas bought that slot reportedly losing several hundred thousand on the deal), the second Hawaii game, and Silicon Valley.

In 2001 the Humanitarian and Silicon were both open and the Sun Belt attempted to swap Colorado State to the Silicon (to face Fresno) take La.Tech from the Humanitarian allowing Boise State (8-4 and uninvited) to go to a bowl game that year and send MTSU (7-4 uninvited) to the Humanitarian to face Boise. Instead the Silicon and Humanitarian sold their slots off for hundreds of thousands of dollars to Michigan State (6-5 regular season) and Clemson (6-5 regular season). Not sure what they sold them for but the Ole Miss AD who was trying to go to Boise said they dropped out of the bidding at $500,000. Ole Miss was 7-4 after losing the longest OT in I-A history.

Are you under the impression those spots are filled on the basis of some sort of merit other than the size of check that may be written that will clear?