My talk with Coach Darrell Dickey

KingDL1 · March 28, 2006

I completely agree with this.
I have a couple of questions for eulesseagle...
You say you want change...
1) if we change how long will the new coach have until he is fired?
2) if a new coach comes in what are your expectations the first year?
3) if he doesn't meet those expectations then he should get fired the very next year right?
4) who are you wanting to replace DD with?
5) how much are you willing for the university to pay on top of DD's buyout?
How in the world can we build a program when we expect to have a new coach every 2 years under your system. Who in their right mind would want to come to NT with the "Win or Get Fired!" contract you are suggesting?
How many coaches have we gone through to get to this point? The university has tried it your way in the past and look how successful we were. Yes I think we are in dire need for a change... One that gives the most successful coach since Hayden Fry some time to finish what he started.
To answer your question:
1. What minimul W-L record, this year, is acceptable to you to keep DD for another year?
I think that we shold honor the contract we gave him.
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You do realize DD only has three winning seasons in 8?

MeanGreenEngineer · March 28, 2006

Graduating during the Hayden Fry era, I guess that I just got spoiled.
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If we were to hire the 2006 version of Hayden Frye, then it would all end the same, he would leave us in the lurch after a few winning years.

The underlying problems that made Hayden leave are still here, and not fixing them is what is really keeping this program back.

eulesseagle · March 28, 2006

OXatUNT-

1. Your point is that you want to keep a coach, that does not have a winning record in 8 years at UNT, until his contract expires in about 3-4 years?? I can respect your status quo opinion and "wait 'till next year philosophy."

2. My expectations, evidently, are a little higher than yours along with others who want UNT to excel. 3 winning seasons in 8 years.......can you name me one coach in D-1A or D-1AA who has had this luxury of being 39-55 after 8 years keeping their job?? This is an anomoly!!

3. To answer your questions, respectfully, I believe the standard contract is for about 4 years (generally). Usually the first year is a rebuilding year because the prior coach (generally) did a poor job unless he did so well that a major BCS school hired him away (as in the case of HF) or gave him a substantial raise as in the case of Petterson at TCU. I dont see any BCS school rushing to offer DD a coaching position (because of his record of "achievement" at UNT) nor do I see the BOR giving him a raise because of his outstanding record. You ask who would I get?? that is not my decision but hopefully the BOR and the AD can find a better qualified candidate who has been a sucessful college head coach who can turn the program around.

OXatUNT, we will have to agree to disagree.....there are those who do not see any improvement in the direction of the program:

1. OOC loses have not brought in better players to improve the W-L record.

2. 39-55 after 8 years speaks for itself.

3. 3 winning seasons in 8 years speaks for itself.

OXatUNT if you are not willing to state your expectations for this year then I can respect your "status quo" mentality. Do you want UNT to win 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 games this year??? that is all I ask. Put your expectations down like I have. If you want 3 wins and 8 close/respectable loses then put that down, I can respect your opinion.

SilverEagle · March 28, 2006

If we were to hire the 2006 version of Hayden Frye, then it would all end the same, he would leave us in the lurch after a few winning years.
The underlying problems that made Hayden leave are still here, and not fixing them is what is really keeping this program back.
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I agree. Until we correct the underlying problems here, programs with more money and more support will always come along and hire the latest version of Hayden Fry.

However, the way to mitigate that is to keep replacing him with the new and "up-and-coming" version of Hayden Fry.

OXatUNT · March 28, 2006

You do realize DD only has three winning seasons in 8?
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Yes but let's look deeper into our coaching history...

Here is the list of coaches since 1973 and their records

Coach Win loss start end

Hayden Fry 5 1 1973 1978

Jerry Moore 1 1 1979 1980

Bob Tyler 0 1 1981 1981

Corky Nelson 5 4 1982 1990

Dennis Parker 0 3 1991 1993

Matt Simon 1 3 1994 1997

Darrell Dickey 3 5 1998 ???

totals 15 18

Dickey is the only one to take us to any bowl game from that group. we've had only 2 coaches with over all winning records in the last 30+ years. We've had 4 out of 7 coaches only stay 4 or less years because they couldn't win consistantly.

Again this shows that we've done the "Win or get fired!" thing in the past and what do we have to show for it?

OXatUNT · March 28, 2006

OXatUNT, we will have to agree to disagree.....there are those who do not see any improvement in the direction of the program:
1. OOC loses have not brought in better players to improve the W-L record.
2. 39-55 after 8 years speaks for itself.
3. 3 winning seasons in 8 years speaks for itself.
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So should 4 bowl in 8 years

OXatUNT if you are not willing to state your expectations for this year then I can respect your "status quo" mentality. Do you want UNT to win 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 games this year??? that is all I ask. Put your expectations down like I have. If you want 3 wins and 8 close/respectable loses then put that down, I can respect your opinion.
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My expectation is that they beat SMwho and win the belt.

VideoEagle · March 28, 2006

However, the way to mitigate that is to keep replacing him with the new and "up-and-coming" version of Hayden Fry.
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How do you really tell who that is? It is not easy to spot the new “super coach” early enough to get him at a bargain. Those crystal balls are usually quite cloudy.

Remember, after his first 8 years as a Head Coach, Hayden was 33-49 with only two winning seasons! Coaches can become great coaches after some early bad years. And some coaches have early success followed by years of bad records.

the green rokemi · March 28, 2006

people we are getting way off topic...this thread is about DD's spin job...Where's Bill O'Reilly when you need him

Edited March 28, 2006 by the green rokemi

MeanMag · March 28, 2006

MeanMag-
If you are complacently content with UNT being #161 in football I can really appreciate your opionion....I do not agree with it but I do appreciate it.
If you have a student that is capable of making "A's" and "B's" and one year makes "C's" and "D's" do you lower his expectations the following year just to do the same???
UNT is capable of being a class program but IMHO DD is not the one to lead the team because of his coaching, recruiting and PR abilities. I am not degrading his character in anyway with that statement.
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My expectations of our record-

Beat SMU, don't get womped by Tulsa. Win the Belt.

This is not Dickey's metric to be fired by. That is a judgment call. I say a winning season.

That is not to say I do not want to beat everyone on the schedule. That is not saying I like mediocrity. I hate losing, but if there is one thing I hate more it's sore losing. And to me that is what this boils down to. I don't need to defend myself against being mediocre, for those that know me, it couldn't be more false.

Do I think a 9-2, 10-2 or whatever record you guys are expecting is realistic? No, but maybe in a couple years I'll be there with you, certainly not after a 2-9 season.

Edited March 29, 2006 by MeanMag

March 29, 2006

Staying within 30 at UT, beating SMU and having a winning record with our schedule ARE realistic expectations. I'll say it again, if we can't do those, who gives a f*#% ?

FirefightnRick · March 29, 2006

Coach Fry finished 5-5-1 and won the Missouri Valley Conference championship in his first year here in '73. He was 40-23-3 overall at NTSU with wins over Tennessee, SMU, Houston, La Tech, Southern Miss, and Memphis to name a few. In '76, his 4th season here, he finished 7-4 with losses to Miss St by 7, Texas by 3 and Florida State by 1. After spending time and listening to him speak this past homecoming I truly believe all the stories I have personally listend to from about 10 of you who post here on this board. Stories of which all of you have talked about and described how the man could literally walk into a room at any fundraising event and leave with nearly everyone's money, and how he made his players believe they could beat anyone on any given saturday. That homecoming day this past Fall I watched as a countless number of those past players stood in line just to get a second to walk up and give the man a hello and a hug after 27 years since he last coached here. The respect shown to the man that day was something I'll never forget, ever. Hayden Fry is in the National and State of Texas college halls of fame.

Rick

LoveMG · March 29, 2006

Remember, after his first 8 years as a Head Coach, Hayden was 33-49 with only two winning seasons!
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that was at smu who cares? dd would be 3-53 in that old swc and no phoney bowls.

Got5onIt · March 29, 2006

"Lovers & apologists!!" (Randy Galloway voice)

Edited March 29, 2006 by Got5onIt

SilverEagle · March 29, 2006

How do you really tell who that is? It is not easy to spot the new “super coach” early enough to get him at a bargain. Those crystal balls are usually quite cloudy.
Remember, after his first 8 years as a Head Coach, Hayden was 33-49 with only two winning seasons! Coaches can become great coaches after some early bad years. And some coaches have early success followed by years of bad records.
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You hire a consultant to analyze the Hayden Fry-type personality and do a profile. You only interview coaches that have noticably turned smaller programs around, and who have energized the fan base in the process.

And if it were me. During the interview, I'd ask the applicant to get up and pretent that he is at a local event in Denton (Lions club etc) and give me an extemporaneous speech extolling the virtues of North Texas, and telling me why people should come to North Texas sporting events.

I would then ask him to pretent that he was at a new conference event on the North Texas campus and then pose a series of questions to him, that some disgruntled students and/or fans might throw at him.

And finally. I would make sure that there were ABSOLUTELY NO OLD NESTERS AND/OR *FACULTY COMMITTEE INVOLVED IN THE HIRING PROCESS.

* this is in reference to the Dennis Parker hiring debaucle

Eagle1855 · March 29, 2006

I have grown bored of all the Hayden Fry talk. I realize that Hayden Fry was once our savior, He was the greatest coach at NT, blah blah blah We get it. He is gone. He is not coming back. Been gone 30 years. Time to move forward. Comparing DD to our savior Hayden Fry is a waste of time. It was a different time then than it is now. Its a different game. There is more money in college football now than ever before. If we had a coach like Hayden Fry, we would keep him for all of 2-3 seasons, then some BCS school would scoop him up and we'd be back to square one. Just look at Dan Hawkins. Urban Meyer. Not that I wouldnt love to have a season or two like that, but it wont be Hayden Fry who takes us there.

KingDL1 · March 29, 2006

Yes but let's look deeper into our coaching history...
Here is the list of coaches since 1973 and their records
Coach Win loss start end
Hayden Fry 5 1 1973 1978
Jerry Moore 1 1 1979 1980
Bob Tyler 0 1 1981 1981
Corky Nelson 5 4 1982 1990
Dennis Parker 0 3 1991 1993
Matt Simon 1 3 1994 1997
Darrell Dickey 3 5 1998 ???
totals 15 18
Dickey is the only one to take us to any bowl game from that group. we've had only 2 coaches with over all winning records in the last 30+ years. We've had 4 out of 7 coaches only stay 4 or less years because they couldn't win consistantly.
Again this shows that we've done the "Win or get fired!" thing in the past and what do we have to show for it?
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Here is a bit of a reality check for you so called "Positive People". (Evil hides right in front of your eyes)

Lets really look at coaching records a little deeper by winning percentages.

Coaches with at least 5 years or more at UNT.

Coach..................First.....Last......Years....Games....Win....Loss....Tie....Pct.

Darrell Dickey.....1998.....2005........8..........94.........39......55......0....0.415

Rod Rust.............1967.....1972........6..........62.........29......32......1....0.476

Corky Nelson......1982......1990.......9.........101.........48......52......1....0.480

Odus Mitchell.......1946......1966......21........216........122.....85......9....0.586

Theron J. Fouts....1920.....1924........5..........39.........23......14......2....0.615

J.W. St. Clair.......1915.....1919........5..........32.........19......11......2....0.625

Hayden Fry..........1973.....1978........6..........66........40.......23......3....0.629

Jack Sisco...........1929.....1941.......13........121........74.......37.....10...0.653

Coaches that left with less than 5 years

Jerry Moore........1979......1980........2..........22.........11.......11......0....0.500

John B. Reid.......1925......1928........4..........37.........16.......18......3....0.473

J.W. Pender........1913......1914........2...........7...........3.........4......0....0.429

Matt Simon.........1994......1997........4..........45.........18.......26......1....0.411

Lloyd Russell.......1942......1942.......1............8...........3.........5......0....0.375

Dennis Parker.....1991......1993........3..........33.........11.......21......1....0.348

Bob Tyler...........1981......1981........1...........11..........2.........9......0.....0.182

This list shows DD as the worst coach that ever stayed 5 or more years by winning percentage.

OH wait he went to 4 Bowl games out of the worst conference ever, so bad that the first time we were the conference champion we had a losing record. If over our history we just needed a winning record in D1a football guess what we would have been to 41 bowl games. Dickey needs to leave.

Edited March 30, 2006 by KingDL1

NT80 · March 29, 2006

If we had a coach like Hayden Fry, we would keep him for all of 2-3 seasons, then some BCS school would scoop him up and we'd be back to square one. Just look at Dan Hawkins. Urban Meyer. Not that I wouldnt love to have a season or two like that, but it wont be Hayden Fry who takes us there.
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Hayden Fry was like our own Urban Meyer back then. But yes, it could happen again some year. I think we're currently safe as far as any BCS scooping.

FirefightnRick · March 30, 2006

I have grown bored of all the Hayden Fry talk. I realize that Hayden Fry was once our savior, He was the greatest coach at NT, blah blah blah We get it. He is gone. He is not coming back. Been gone 30 years. Time to move forward. Comparing DD to our savior Hayden Fry is a waste of time. It was a different time then than it is now. Its a different game. There is more money in college football now than ever before. If we had a coach like Hayden Fry, we would keep him for all of 2-3 seasons, then some BCS school would scoop him up and we'd be back to square one. Just look at Dan Hawkins. Urban Meyer. Not that I wouldnt love to have a season or two like that, but it wont be Hayden Fry who takes us there.
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Not sure why you would ever get bored about reading others memories about a legend that started doing some amazing things at your own school? The only reason I wrote the paragraph above about him is because someone got a fact about him wrong and because others here on this board seem to forget how high the bar was set for some of those who came here before us, and how high it can be met again with a little ingenuity and creativity. Where not talking about lighting strikes here, we're talking coaching. Corky Nelson came close to pulling off some of the same successes that Fry did only a few years after coach Fry left.

And sure, a coach of Fry's magnitude only comes along once in a while, but that doesn't mean we can't find the next one. And with that I suggest one only needs to look at TxSt's Coach Bailiff and what he's been able to do there in a very short period of time for proof. I think that guy is the next Hawkins, Meyer or Francione. Time will tell.

Rick

UNTLifer · March 30, 2006

And with that I suggest one only needs to look at TxSt's Coach Bailiff and what he's been able to do there in a very short period of time for proof.
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Not if he keeps making decisions like he did in the playoffs last year.

KingDL1 · March 30, 2006

How do you really tell who that is? It is not easy to spot the new “super coach” early enough to get him at a bargain. Those crystal balls are usually quite cloudy.
Remember, after his first 8 years as a Head Coach, Hayden was 33-49 with only two winning seasons! Coaches can become great coaches after some early bad years. And some coaches have early success followed by years of bad records.
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I don't really see what Hayden did at SMU has to do with us?

Hayden really got going when he came to UNT. That just proves the point home its time for DD to leave and start over somewhere else. But I don't think DD is even close to half the coach Fry is. I say that because of DD's attitude and expectations he expresses to team and fans. His motivational skills seem lacking and on and on.

Edited March 30, 2006 by KingDL1

shaft · March 30, 2006

King's just mad he's one of the F'ers DD called out.

And how does Fry's record at SMU or anywhere prove anything about modern coaching?

Bottomline: Back the team, and quit your bitching. 4 straight bowl games compared to 40 years with out one.

Quoner · March 30, 2006

King's just mad he's one of the F'ers DD called out.
And how does Fry's record at SMU or anywhere prove anything about modern coaching?
Bottomline: Back the team, and quit your bitching. 4 straight bowl games compared to 40 years with out one.
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Please, please let this lead to a circular debate with no resolution.

That would be like Christmas in March.

KingDL1 · March 30, 2006

Bottomline: Back the team, and quit your bitching. 4 straight bowl games compared to 40 years with out one.
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Bottom line DD is the only UNT coach with the opportunity to have a Bowl game directly tied to this conference championship. And anyone who is giving DD a free pass because of the bowl is not looking at the bottom line.

If we go by winning seasons in D1a football we have 41.

If we go by conference championships we have had 24 realizing that we had 19 years independent.

The Bowl games are very poor measuring sticks.

FirefightnRick · March 30, 2006

King's just mad he's one of the F'ers DD called out.
And how does Fry's record at SMU or anywhere prove anything about modern coaching?
Bottomline: Back the team, and quit your bitching. 4 straight bowl games compared to 40 years with out one.
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Modern coaching? Is that what we have been witnessing these past several years?

Rick