My endurance with this program is waning

[NT80]

Offseason Blues or just been through too many battles in this Army? Others have already given up the good fight when they saw no signs of light or life.

I'm not getting any younger either and I'm tired of guessing about the direction this wagon is heading. Either we want to be a 1-A program and work to act and look like it or we just can't. If we can't afford it yet but we want to do something about it then that needs to be expressed too; soon before we lose many more longtime fans.

I see some positive signs of progress in facilities and rumors of other conferences watching us then I see signs of total collapse in some sports, a non-focus against our main moveup competition, and a constant spin on it all. A lack-of-hunger, as one player put it, concerns me. The rewarding of continuity based solely on seniority concerns me also as a financial supporter. Banter about further delays in football stadium priority only highlights if there is indeed a real goal or timeline or just more talk.

The seemless futility of it all wears a fan down to the point of surrender and a change in one's time and financial priorities. I'm looking for answers but they're not easy to find these days; too many Chiefs not enough Indians. If you read between the lines of things going on at UNT it's not all good I fear.

[drex]

Here is what is needed to cure your blues about the green. Hire away a head football coach from an established program and do the same with the men's and women's basketball programs. This will take money and commitment, but it will be the only indicator that the NT administration is getting serious. We want to drive a Cadillac but don't want to pay for one. We constantly hear that we don't have the resources, but the reality is that when NT really wants to do something they find a way to find the money. Will this day ever come? Who knows. I concur that funding the existing programs very much a crap shoot with no winners thus far. The only way we will get the necessary funding is through 'venture capital' from the administration. A big, well planned and outlined objective will attract donors.

[Travis]

I know many who feel you. Even us younger ones.

[MeanGreen61]

I know many who feel you. Even us younger ones.

←

[risinggreen]

Offseason Blues or just been through too many battles in this Army?  Others have already given up the good fight when they saw no signs of light or life.

I'm not getting any younger either and I'm tired of guessing about the direction this wagon is heading.  Either we want to be a 1-A program and work to act and look like it or we just can't.  If we can't afford it yet but we want to do something about it then that needs to be expressed too; soon before we lose many more longtime fans. 

I see some positive signs of progress in facilities and rumors of other conferences watching us then I see signs of total collapse in some sports, a non-focus against our main moveup competition, and a constant spin on it all.  A lack-of-hunger, as one player put it, concerns me.  The rewarding of continuity based solely on seniority concerns me also as a financial supporter.  Banter about further delays in football stadium priority only highlights if there is indeed a real goal or timeline or just more talk. 

The seemless futility of it all wears a fan down to the point of surrender and a change in one's time and financial priorities.  I'm looking for answers but they're not easy to find these days; too many Chiefs not enough Indians.  If you read between the lines of things going on at UNT it's not all good I fear. 

←

I don't feel ya, but I certainly hear ya! I have some of the same feelings. I've generally been the eternal optimist, but I'm beginning to get worn down a bit. If we were winning some OOC games in football, I would be able to tell myself that last year was just an unusual event so far for us in this 21st century. Unfortunately, some of our Belt championships look like they were a little on the fortuitous side when you look at them in hindsight. We clearly need to either change that pattern THIS coming season, or make some serious coaching changes after this coming season. Basketball and most other sports have been pretty depressing in the Belt also. In summary, I would give DD, JJ, and TS one more season to make something happen. If it doesn't, time to say bye bye!

[eulesseagle]

i say dump athletics and all the athletic staff and put the money in another off campus program in Mineral Wells.

[SilverEagle]

Here is what is needed to cure your blues about the green. Hire away a head football coach from an established program and do the same with the men's and women's basketball programs.  This will take money and commitment, but it will be the only indicator that the NT administration is getting serious.  We want to drive a Cadillac but don't want to pay for one.  We constantly hear that we don't have the resources, but the reality is that when NT really wants to do something they find a way to find the money.  Will this day ever come?  Who knows. I concur that funding the existing programs very much a crap shoot with no winners thus far. The only way we will get the necessary funding is through 'venture capital' from the administration.  A big, well planned and outlined objective will attract donors.

←

What concerns me these days is that we don't seem to have athletic personnel that want to (or are able to) get out into the public to share their vision about North Texas athletics.

I rememeber when Hayden Fry took over (yes, I'm going to bring him up again, so all you younger people stop rolling your eyes). One of the first things he did was call a "town meeting" in one of the main auditoriums and invited everyone to attend. Hayden shared his vision of North Texas athletics with the crowd, and he talked about what he was going to do. He then talked about ways in which the student body, faculty, and anyone else who wanted to get on board, could help. He then went on a speaking tour of Denton County to do the same thing.

I don't remember that Corky did the same thing, but he did make some speaking appearances in the community, and was more than willing to talk to any group that invited him to make a presentation.

I'm not sure that North Texas will ever "drive a Cadillac". But we will never even drive a mid-sized Buick if we don't start getting out into the community and getting more involvement from the community.

We also need to get more "bang for our buck" when it comes to hiring people.

Edited March 9, 2006 by SilverEagle

[the green rokemi]

I was talking with TI Green about this yesterday, but a good first step would be for NT to start doing what this board has been doing for years and that is be the PRIMARY source of information for a lot of people, not to mention how much this board does to get people excited about the programs and school...

"NT should give Harry an honorary PHD for all he has done" - TI GREEN

amen

[shaft]

The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling!

[KingDL1]

I'm not sure that North Texas will ever "drive a Cadillac". But we will never even drive a mid-sized Buick if we don't start getting out into the community and getting more involvement from the community.

←

Silver I agree with you. And this thread while I will be there next season I already heard most of my friends say they tried of it, and several don't plan to buy season tickets with us next year. They all say once you scrape a way all the hoopla not much has changed.

These days I feel it more like we are driving a 1975 AMC Pacer.

[FirefightnRick]

"NT should give Harry an honorary PHD for all he has done"  - TI GREEN

←

Very very true!

Rick

[ADLER]

It wasn't always bad. There recently was reason to believe.

Flash back 8 months.

********************************************************************

UNT athletics finding room to grow

Lofty goal? New stadium not a long shot anymore

04:49 PM CDT on Sunday, August 28, 2005

By BRETT VITO / Denton Record-Chronicle

DENTON – A few years ago, Eagle Point was a place where a quiet round of golf represented just about the only athletic activity on a patch of land bordering the University of North Texas campus.

That tranquility has been lost in a rumble of bulldozers that clear the way for the largest round of athletic expansion in UNT history.

The course of action is one that UNT officials plan on continuing with the construction of a football stadium within the next five years, a goal they believe is attainable.

UNT is building soccer and softball fields and recently presented a facility plan to its Board of Regents that includes a 32,000-seat football stadium that would cost $40 million to $45 million.

"The basis for our plan shows we are committed to athletics," UNT president Norval Pohl said.

The presentation comes at the end of a whirlwind four years for UNT's sports program under athletic director Rick Villarreal. UNT arranged to build several facilities in that time and also had an extended courtship with Conference USA, which eventually left the school out of its expansion plans.

The experiences helped shape the new goals of the athletic department, which feels secure in its ability to find financing for a stadium because of what it's accomplished since Villarreal's arrival.

UNT opened its $7.4 million athletic center this year and purchased Denton Liberty Christian School's campus, where new soccer and softball fields are being built. Construction has also begun on the Ronald C. Waranch Tennis Pavilion, the new home for the UNT tennis program, and a new artificial surface at Fouts Field, which will be ready for this season.

UNT had only three on-campus athletic facilities when Villarreal was hired in 2001. Fouts Field was built in 1952, and the North Texas Coliseum, also known as the Super Pit, was built in 1973. The school's old office complex, which housed administration officials and football coaches, was built in 1976.

Villarreal has no plans of slowing down, despite the fact UNT has quickly exceeded what was accomplished in the last 30 years.

"We have to start all over again," he said. "We had a five-year plan, a 10-year plan and a vision when I came to UNT. That is all gone now. We have to step it up because we accomplished a lot in four years and people are going to expect the same rate of progress."

Working out plans

UNT officials see a football stadium as the next logical step in the expansion of the athletic department, which added softball two years ago and is planning to revive its baseball program by 2007.

"We definitely have a benchmark of success now that we didn't have as many as five years ago," said senior associate athletic director Hank Dickenson, entering his 11th year at UNT. "There are things there people can come and see that show we are able to raise money, whereas before we could only sell dreams. ... The plans for a stadium are tangible now."

The achievements have helped Villarreal gain the support of UNT Board of Regents members C. Dan Smith and Charles Beatty.

"I feel comfortable about the direction we are going," said Smith, who expressed confidence that UNT would build a stadium in the next few years. "All in all, I am very excited about where we are compared to where we were."

UNT officials believe building facilities now will ensure several teams will continue to build on their success in recent years. The football team has won the Sun Belt Conference title and played in the New Orleans Bowl in each of the last four years, and the soccer team advanced to the NCAA women's tournament for the first time in the program's history last year.

"We are trying to make up for 25-35 years of not only no growth in the athletic program, but no improvements to speak of," Villarreal said. "We could do it year-by-year by building one facility at a time, but you would have to wonder what would happen in that span while we are trying to catch up."

Members of the faculty said they are cautiously supportive of the school's athletic expansion, as long as it is kept in perspective.

"There is some concern about the emphasis in a time of decreasing funding," said Frances van Tassell, chairwoman of the faculty senate. "We need to be careful how we spend our resources."

The athletic department recently borrowed $2.57 million for the final payment on the Liberty Christian property, to convert its facilities and the turf at Fouts Field. Van Tassell said borrowing money for athletic facilities was a divisive issue among professors.

Grant Miles, a professor in the department of management who frequently attends games, has no problem with athletic department expansion, as long as it does not come at the cost of academics.

"If the athletic department can build a stadium with outside funding, that is OK," he said. "It seems projects like that are not always done with outside money, though."

Finding outside help

Villarreal is counting on efforts to cultivate donors to jump-start a fund-raising campaign for a football stadium. Those efforts and the success of some of UNT's teams helped the school gain a $1 million donation from former Mean Green linebacker Jim McIngvale for its athletic center and another $1 million from alumnus Ronald Waranch for the tennis center.

McIngvale cited the success of the football program under coach Darrell Dickey as one of the reasons he supports the athletic program.

"I absolutely think it is possible for North Texas to build a football stadium," he said. "I am 100 percent behind it as long as Darrell Dickey is there. There is no reason North Texas can't get it done."

Villarreal and Pohl point to McIngvale's enthusiasm as a sign UNT is cultivating relationships that will result in the donations necessary to build a stadium.

"The financial backing is out there for a stadium," Pohl said. "Our goal is to get it done in five years. That's a realistic timeframe."

********************************************************************

What has caused the change from that unbridled enthusiasm to the current malaise.

Is everything really so bleak that longtime supporters should be distancing themselves from the program? Will financial ties to athletics be severed as emotional involvement decreases? Who is in position to improve the situation? What should be done?

Edited March 9, 2006 by ADLER

[untbowler]

I think this season has taken its toll. Everybody is tired of the same ole attitude of many of the coaches that are here. There is no commuity involvement that is publicly displayed. All the promises made 5 years ago when RV stepped in have for the most part fallen thru the cracks. We have a Chancellor in office that many believe is holding back Athletics. Our main Athletics Coach DD still shuns the fans, hopefully that will change. This spring the Basketball Teams tanked, Tennis is sinking fast, Softball has some buzz, Track is on the periphery as well as Golf.

Just a bad year for the fans and it does not appear as if the Athletics Office even gives a damn. There is minimal publicity and seems to be no communication on setting up events that would actually boosts Athletics the community.

Lets hope for a change, but I'll cross my fingers and hope for a miracle.

[Monkeypox]

North Texas has never truly shown a committment to winning. that is all.

[ADLER]

I think this season has taken its toll. Everybody is tired of the same ole attitude of many of the coaches that are here. There is no commuity involvement that is publicly displayed. All the promises made 5 years ago when RV stepped in have for the most part fallen thru the cracks. We have a Chancellor in office that many believe is holding back Athletics. Our main Athletics Coach DD still shuns the fans, hopefully that will change. This spring the Basketball Teams tanked, Tennis is sinking fast, Softball has some buzz, Track is on the periphery as well as Golf.

Just a bad year for the fans and it does not appear as if the Athletics Office even gives a damn. There is minimal publicity and seems to be no communication on setting up events that would actually boosts Athletics the community.

Lets hope for a change, but I'll cross my fingers and hope for a miracle. 

←

My point was that none of that commitment that we have seen from last August has necessarily changed. We have seen many new facilities opened within the last year (Athletics Center, Tennis Center, Soccer Facility, multiple women's training facilities), and the new Softball Complex is also nearing completion.

There has also been no notification of intentions to cancel plans to build new baseball and football stadiums.

I guess the uncertainty surrounding Dr. Pohl's replacement combined with the questions concerning Chancellor Jackson's resolve to get these projects completed has left quite a few fans dismayed and feeling alienated.

I think we need some communication in the worst way, and hopefully it's all good news, or at least good enough to alleviate the malaise.

That next quarterly meeting can't come soon enough.

[greenpie]

I hear and feel ya. It hurt when football sank this past season but I had hope when BB was on role and drove to Denton to see the USA game and it all came to a screaching halt. Now, we are suppose to wait another year for DD and JJ to prove to us they really really suck...can't wait

Edited March 9, 2006 by greenpie

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

North Texas has never truly shown a committment to winning.  that is all.

←

---A winning program requires money to keep or get outstanding coaches and until we can build a good fan base --30,000 or more attendence at game and get more media exposure it is going to be tough to recruit extremely well or raise more money. The whole situation is a catch-22,---- it is tough to improve interest without better teams and tough to get better teams without better fan and media interest. We could then improve revenues.

---About the quickest way to get more respect is defeat some quality teams such as Texas (now unlikely) without other improvement. However odd things do happen sometimes... SMU definitely was not better than TCU last year who lost only one game and won their conference.... but they won, somehow.

---You said there is no committment to winning..... you got any good sources of money that is needed or inroads to outstanding athletes that we can sign???? UNT does need to create more school loyality amoung students somehow, unfortunately so many of our students are JC transfers that never develope the loyality that students who spend all four years at a university do. The first year they are new to the campus and are settling in and the second and final year they join very few activities and know they will soon be gone.

---Everyone will listen to some good suggestions from you if not to improve out committment. Remember we can't tap tax money for athletics, UT doesn't either but they get a fortune in donations from alums and friends.

---When the NCAA created I-AA, Lamar, UT-Arlington, dropped their programs and West Texas State went to a no-scholarship situation. Only UNT in Texas survived the drop in status and has even made it back to I-A. The Southland group already existed as a lower classification and are still there. I am not as critical as some.

Edited March 9, 2006 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[GreenBat]

All the promises made 5 years ago when RV stepped in have for the most part fallen thru the cracks.

←

Ding, Ding, Ding. I'm glad to see that others are beginning to see this is the Pizza Man's Method of Operations.

[untbowler]

$$$ does not buy wins.

Finding the right coach who wants to be here is what gets wins, finding coaches with some experience wins games.

I am tired of the $$$$ being used as an excuse all the time.

Is it $$ that Athletics can not update their website to promote upcoming events? Is it $$$ that causes DD to have thumbed his nose at the fans for the past 8 years. Is it $$$ that has kept Slinker here for 17 years with a losing record and no NCAA appearances, 2 NIT blow-outs.

Also what are they doing to get the 7K or so new freshman involved, they are not JC transfers.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

There is no commuity involvement that is publicly displayed. All the promises made 5 years ago when RV stepped in have for the most part fallen thru the cracks. Lets hope for a change, but I'll cross my fingers and hope for a miracle. 

←

Agree on the community, but many would be more involved if the programs were more successful which also means more name opponents.

I am guessing those promises require more money........ some more money has come in but not near enough to meet our hopes and his promises.

Question : Aren't we better off than were in 2000. Maybe we should have improve quicker but with the exception of 2005 in football things have improved. I live in West Texas and I can assure you NT appears more in the newspapers out here than it was doing before then.

[DallasGreen]

$$$ does not buy wins.

Finding the right coach who wants to be here is what gets wins, finding coaches with some experience wins games.

I am tired of the $$$$ being used as an excuse all the time.

Is it $$ that Athletics can not update their website to promote upcoming events? Is it $$$ that causes DD to have thumbed his nose at the fans for the past 8 years. Is it $$$ that has kept Slinker here for 17 years with a losing record and no NCAA appearances, 2 NIT blow-outs.

Also what are they doing to get the 7K or so new freshman involved, they are not JC transfers. 

←

How can you explain away that while we have grapled since 1994 with this and schools such as So. FL, LA Tech, CFU, FIU, FAU, Troy now kick us around. There is only one answer -THE COMMITTMENT FROM THE TOP IS NOT THERE. With the most pro athletic BOR and President in history we were making some strides. But now with LJ calling the shots for his South Dallas Dream Campus, the BOR even appears to see athletics as a sinking commodity. Games such as Tulsa, LA Tech, FAU last year were not just losses-- they were embarrassements!! Apparently our leaders don't feel that since NONE are alums. I am with what Jeff said a " Quarterly" meeting can't come too soon to let us know just where this ship is really headed before it completely sinks to the bottom!!!

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

$$$ does not buy wins.

Finding the right coach who wants to be here is what gets wins, finding coaches with some experience wins games.

I am tired of the $$$$ being used as an excuse all the time.

Is it $$ that Athletics can not update their website to promote upcoming events? Is it $$$ that causes DD to have thumbed his nose at the fans for the past 8 years. Is it $$$ that has kept Slinker here for 17 years with a losing record and no NCAA appearances, 2 NIT blow-outs.

Also what are they doing to get the 7K or so new freshman involved, they are not JC transfers. 

←

We have lost good assistant coaches to other colleges including UCLA that paid more and provided more coaching status. Money is an issue but not the entire issue.

I don't disagree on what you are saying about getting more students involved and interested... got any suggestions instead of complaints..???

[ntsumgspe]

That next quarterly meeting can't come soon enough.

←

I'm still waiting on the last one.

[ADLER]

Ding, Ding, Ding.  I'm glad to see that others are beginning to see this is the Pizza Man's Method of Operations.

←

In the last 5 years we have seen more new facilities added than in the preceding 50 combined. Basketball is mildly respectable, nothing to brag about, but far better than it was throughout the Trilli period. Football, though certainly not outstanding in all aspects, has given us an unprecedented 4 straight bowl games during those years.

Tailgating is also a lot more fun than in earlier seasons, and I feel that many fans are drawn to the games primarily because of the party atmosphere.

Not everything is well with Mean Green athletics, and much is just uncertain, but I also don't see the need for the gloom that has permeated the program throughout the '05-'06 year.

We really just need some good news.

[UNTLifer]

Silver I agree with you. And this thread while I will be there next season I already heard most of my friends say they tried of it, and several don't plan to buy season tickets with us next year. They all say once you scrape a way all the hoopla not much has changed.

These days I feel it more like we are driving a 1975 AMC Pacer.

←

Here is the problem. We don't have enough fans that will suppport the program through thick and thin. The first sign that things aren't going the way they want them to, and they go away. Money is a huge issue, but the admin. needs to stay the course and let RV do his job!