Are Many Teams Scheduling 1AA Games ?

eulesseagle · March 2, 2006

here is where i stand on the issues:

1. Play 1 or 2 D-1AA games a year for the next 3 years to increase the wins. The reasoning is to improve our record to get better recruits.

2. Dont play any big money games with BCS schools for 3 years to increase our W-L ratio.

3. Play more Mid-Major programs.

This is how I personally feel UNT should get the program back in the right direction. I know some of you do not agree but only state, "that we should keep on doing what we are doing and the ship will eventually right itself."

1. We have a coach and a staff that has a record of not being able to recruit. It has been stated 3 winning seasons in 8 years and next year looks like 3 winning seasons in 9 years.

2. Hence UNT is #107 out of 117 D-1A Programs.

3. Last year when everyone was saying that UNT will win 8 or 9 games we barely won 2. It took DD half way through the season to figure out that he needed to pass more. It takes 5 or 6 games to figure out that "he" needs to make adjustments to the program. I thought you did that in spring practice and minute by minute during the game and watching game film of the last game.

That is my philosophy right now......."SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO TAKE A STEP BACK TO TAKE TWO STEPS FORWARD"

My expectations this year: Win 2 OOC games, run the belt and beat the #4 CUSA team in the N.O. Bowl......anything less then we need a changing of the guard.

March 2, 2006

Let me see if I understand this. By beating one or two 1-AA teams per year, it's going to make us a better team? Or, are will we just think we're better?

Two of Dickey's OOC wins were over 1-AA teams and I don't think that it boosted our confidence very much when we lost the next week. I remember sitting at Fouts with about 3,000 others watching us beat Samford. The attendance was, perhaps, a little better for Nicholls State. In my opinion, 1-AAs will kill the program. And, if we happen to lose to one, quickly.

SilverEagle · March 2, 2006

exactly. a 1-AA win means nothing to UNT but beating someone we should beat like SBC teams. a loss would kill the fan base and recruiting more than it has been by 2-9.
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....let me remind everyone (for the umpteenth time) that we used to BE a 1-AA program. Now, if losing to a 1-AA team would kill the fan base, then what would being a 1-AA program do?

From the early to mid- 50's until 1981 North Texas played D-1 football. In all that time of D-1 football we never sold out Fouts......even with such famous players as Abner Haynes, Spider Lockhart, John Love, Steve Ramsey, Ronnie Shanklin, Cedric Hardeman and Joe Greeene playing there. Our first sell-out at Fouts was as a 1-AA program against SFA! So obviously being 1-AA didn't matter THAT much to the casual North Texas fan.

Now, I am NOT advocating that we drop back into division 1-AA (some have already argued that we are already there in the SBC).

SO, here's a test in logical thinking folks. We had a smaller enrollment and alumni base back then, so since we sold out Fouts for the first time ever, being a 1-AA school obviously didn't kill the fan base. We also didn't have the game day experience (tailgating etc) back then that we now have.

So then what is/are the real difference maker(s) in motivating the casual fan to come out and watch North Texas football?*

*hint* it starts with a W and the other starts with a P......

eulesseagle · March 2, 2006

GreyEagleOne--

I totally understand your view point about playing too many D-1aa schools and how you think it may degrade our program and I respect that. IMHO, UNT is not in a conference where we can play for a national championship, yet.

I only suggest this a short term approach for a long term solution. If UNT gets beat by a D-1AA school that would be terrible but, as you know, if you combine D-1A and D-1AA programs, UNT would probably be ranked about #140 and not even in the top 20 of D-1AA. IMHO, again, the problem could be solved by getting better recruits but DD has proven that he and his staff are incapable of doing that. If the BOR and RV decide to extend DD's contract then it is an indication that these powers are satisfied with the "status quo" of our program and are complacently content to let our football program remain #107 out of 117 college football D-1A programs. If that is the BOR's intent and we have no say or power to change that then what are our alternatives??

FWIW, scheduling regional D-1AA schools such as SFA or Texas State to come to Fouts would not hurt the program and would probably draw as much if not more of a crowd to see the game as us playing Tulsa last year.

SilverEagleOne, I believe if we are stuck in this current quagmire then our options are limited:

1. We need to change coaches ASAP or

2. We need to have to ease up on our schedule, temporarily, until we get back on track....and we are off the track.....

I do not believe that what we are doing now is improving the program and the majority of the posters have no "specific" solutions to solve our "staus quo" situation. You just can not say we just have to win more games......yea......but how????You just can not play 2 BCS schools a year for "$500k" a year and expect to improve our current problem ..... that is 2 more "L's" and another 40-54 points hung on us in front of the whole football nation.

Agree or disagree that is my "specific" solution.....

If someone else has a "specific" solution I would like to hear it.

buff64 · March 2, 2006

The Star-Telegram reported this morning that Grambling has backed out of it's scheldued game with TCU this fall. So TCU is still searching for that 12th game. However, I know a lot of people would not want to play them since they cannot even defeat SMU and could be equated to a DIAA team.

TIgreen01 · March 2, 2006

....let me remind everyone (for the umpteenth time) that we used to BE a 1-AA program. Now, if losing to a 1-AA team would kill the fan base, then what would being a 1-AA program do?
From the early to mid- 50's until 1981 North Texas played D-1 football. In all that time of D-1 football we never sold out Fouts......even with such famous players as Abner Haynes, Spider Lockhart, John Love, Steve Ramsey, Ronnie Shanklin, Cedric Hardeman and Joe Greeene playing there. Our first sell-out at Fouts was as a 1-AA program against SFA! So obviously being 1-AA didn't matter THAT much to the casual North Texas fan.
Now, I am NOT advocating that we drop back into division 1-AA (some have already argued that we are already there in the SBC).
SO, here's a test in logical thinking folks. We had a smaller enrollment and alumni base back then, so since we sold out Fouts for the first time ever, being a 1-AA school obviously didn't kill the fan base. We also didn't have the game day experience (tailgating etc) back then that we now have.
So then what is/are the real difference maker(s) in motivating the casual fan to come out and watch North Texas football?*
*hint* it starts with a W and the other starts with a P......
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Excellent post. For further proof of what winning does, you need to look no further than the basketball team this year. Remember all the buzz surrounding the team up through January? We were what? 12-5?...something close to that. Nevermind that that record was earned largely by playing cupcake games, we eventually had 4k+ show up for a conference game!! When was the last time that happened? Now that we've come back down to earth and started losing, it's even MORE amplified by the loss of fans. The point is that people don't care who you beat b/c most casual fans aren't paying attention to who you're playing anyways...they see the won/loss record and assume you're a good team if you have a winning record.

Further, winning one big OOC game doesn't carry the weight that many on this board claim it does. Just look at 1997 and 1999 for proof. In 1997, we go out to Lubbock and beat Texas Tech. The next week we get tamu at Texas Stadium and have 45-50k show up---with 20k of that being NT fans. We played tamu close for a half before fumbling away the game in the second half. Either way, we get TV coverage for the following weeks game at Idaho. We lose. Then we lose a few more. Guess what?...no more tv coverage and no more fans. 1999. We beat Tech in Lubbock again, but go 2-9 or 3-8 on the season. No fans. Fast forward to 2001 and beyond. We consistenly get DRUBBED in OOC games, but our attendance continues to GROW b/c we win conference every year for 4 straight years. We win the Sun Belt every year, which is considered by most to be the worst D1 conference in America. But guess what?? People don't care that we're beating up on the bottom 10, they just see wins. How is this not clear to EVERYONE on this board?

Now, I am not saying that we should be playing all I-AA games in order to maintain a winning record. I would personally like every season to open up with a cupcake game to allow the team a chance at a live scrimmage. After that, business as usual (ie...1-2 body bags and 1-2 mid-majors). But the point is, to the people who act like beating up on I-AA would somehow hurt the program....WAKE UP! The excuse that we already play cupcakes by being in the Sun Belt is also bogus. That is our conference and it is our conference for a reason. $$ is that reason. We are competitive in this conference in terms of budget, and last I checked we got smoked by all but 2 teams last year. The Sun Belt IS our current level of play, not below us. Now, continue to win games (like we did during that 4 year span) and our attendance will continue to grow, which EQUALS MORE $$....which gives us a chance to STEP UP in terms of who our peers are and gives us a shot at joining a better conference.

Edited March 2, 2006 by TIgreen01

LongJim · March 2, 2006

The coaching staff/athletic department/team does not need the "out" that victories against D1AA schools provides. They need to produce results at the level of competition that UNT plays.
If they are not delivering at the level expected, then changes must be made to achieve that result. Gimme victories against lower-tier schools delays that process, IMO.

bigrobdsp · March 2, 2006

youre the best he- B#%$h in my man stable

eulesseagle · March 2, 2006

bigrobdsp---

that is our point......

UNT is ranked #107 out of 117 D-1A teams.....the rest of the SBC is ranked where we are......that does not leave very many D-1A teams below us!!

are you begining to see the quagmire???

Arkstfan · March 2, 2006

Playing I-AA's isn't nearly as big a deal as its being made out to be.

My personal philosophy is that if the AD is going to whore the program out two or three times a year to BCS programs and not get a return game that they are better off replacing at least one of those games with a I-AA and trying to get a few wins before they drive all the fans away.

In the Belt with the 3/4 schedule you would hope that everyone could find some home/home and 3/2 and 2/1 arrangements to get home games and keep their teams at home at least 5 out of 12 games when playing three home conference games and play six when playing four home conference games.

One I-AA counts every year toward the scheduling, attendance, and bowl requirements so it makes no sense to automatically rule out playing them.

Realistically with the 12 game schedule and I-AA's counting. There will not be nearly as many vacant bowl spots if any (2004 with all but three eligible teams in bowls won't happen again unless SEVERAL bowls are added). A second bowl will only happen if we partner with someone to create one or we have a top 12 finisher to go BCS.

Priority one has to be winning games and developing a fan base.

I like the plan the Dr. Lee has at Arkansas State. The non-conference slate this year is Army at Jonesboro, Oklahoma State in Little Rock, at SMU (returns to ASU in 2007), at Memphis (returns to ASU in 2007), and at Auburn for a check. No I-AA game. Only one "money" game. The remainder are simple home/home deals with schools roughly equivalent to us. If we win six or seven on that schedule we won't be top 35 material but we won't suck either.

The bonus being that in 2007 we've got SMU and Memphis coming in along with four Sun Belt games and we'll have three slots to fill.

stebo · March 2, 2006

Excellent post. For further proof of what winning does, you need to look no further than the basketball team this year. Remember all the buzz surrounding the team up through January? We were what? 12-5?...something close to that. Nevermind that that record was earned largely by playing cupcake games, we eventually had 4k+ show up for a conference game!! When was the last time that happened? Now that we've come back down to earth and started losing, it's even MORE amplified by the loss of fans. The point is that people don't care who you beat b/c most casual fans aren't paying attention to who you're playing anyways...they see the won/loss record and assume you're a good team if you have a winning record.
Further, winning one big OOC game doesn't carry the weight that many on this board claim it does. Just look at 1997 and 1999 for proof. In 1997, we go out to Lubbock and beat Texas Tech. The next week we get tamu at Texas Stadium and have 45-50k show up---with 20k of that being NT fans. We played tamu close for a half before fumbling away the game in the second half. Either way, we get TV coverage for the following weeks game at Idaho. We lose. Then we lose a few more. Guess what?...no more tv coverage and no more fans. 1999. We beat Tech in Lubbock again, but go 2-9 or 3-8 on the season. No fans. Fast forward to 2001 and beyond. We consistenly get DRUBBED in OOC games, but our attendance continues to GROW b/c we win conference every year for 4 straight years. We win the Sun Belt every year, which is considered by most to be the worst D1 conference in America. But guess what?? People don't care that we're beating up on the bottom 10, they just see wins. How is this not clear to EVERYONE on this board?
Now, I am not saying that we should be playing all I-AA games in order to maintain a winning record. I would personally like every season to open up with a cupcake game to allow the team a chance at a live scrimmage. After that, business as usual (ie...1-2 body bags and 1-2 mid-majors). But the point is, to the people who act like beating up on I-AA would somehow hurt the program....WAKE UP! The excuse that we already play cupcakes by being in the Sun Belt is also bogus. That is our conference and it is our conference for a reason. $$ is that reason. We are competitive in this conference in terms of budget, and last I checked we got smoked by all but 2 teams last year. The Sun Belt IS our current level of play, not below us. Now, continue to win games (like we did during that 4 year span) and our attendance will continue to grow, which EQUALS MORE $$....which gives us a chance to STEP UP in terms of who our peers are and gives us a shot at joining a better conference.
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That is a fantastic post. You summed up what many of us were trying to argue perfectly.