Why are the high profile sports failing?

[DeepGreen]

Four SBC championships, four New Orleans Bowl appearances, a coach FB in his 8th year; basketball - a 5th year coach and I doubt we hit .500 this season.

We have new, much needed athletic facilities in most sports. My question is, did the athletic department have to cut it's budget to help fund the completion of the athletic complex? Going further, did our RECRUITING BUDGET suffer to the point of poor recruiting of the better athletes in football and basketball? Leave the coaches out of the mix. We all have our opinions on Dickey and Jones. They are not the targets of this thread.

Personally, I think our recruiting budget shrank and we are now seeing the effects.

Edited February 12, 2006 by DeepGreen

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Four SBC championships, four New Orleans Bowl appearances, a coach FB in his 8th year; basketball - a 5th year coach and I doubt we hit .500 this season.

We have new,  much needed athletic facilities in most sports.  My question is, did the athletic department have to cut it's budget to help fund the completion of the athletic complex?  Going further, did our RECRUITING BUDGET suffer to the point of poor recruiting of the better athletes in football and basketball?  Leave the coaches out of the mix.  We all have our opinions on Dickey and Jones.  They are not the targets of this thread.

Personally, I think our recruiting budget shrank and we are now seeing the effects.

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I don't think so, Deep. If there were severe budget cuts wouldn't you just stay closer to home? Last year's football players came mostly from central Texas, Houston area, Kansas and Oklahoma. Basketball was a little closer except for one from Alabama. This year football was again from greater Houston, Kansas and Oklahoma. Basketball from Missouri. Looks about the same to me.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I don't think so, Deep.  If there were severe budget cuts wouldn't you just stay closer to home?  Last year's football players came mostly from central Texas, Houston area, Kansas and Oklahoma.  Basketball was a little closer except for one from Alabama.  This year football was again from greater Houston, Kansas and Oklahoma.  Basketball from Missouri.  Looks about the same to me.

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To quote some song lyrics of the great James (I Feel Good Like I Knew That I Would) Brown: "PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!

The lack of success of Darrell Dickey shouldn't be surprising about 99.9% of many on this board (and beyond) who wanted him gone after the ULM loss 6 years ago, right?

What if Rick V would have had a chance to show his head football coach hiring skills with a Dennis Erickson-type hire (a la Idaho's new hire last week) if he had been given that choice after that ULM game? If that would have occured, might have UNT had more than just one good recruiting class (which you sorta' have to do annually at an NCAA D1-A level to keep the wheels of your football program turning); what about our 4 bowl teams that could have actually been ranked because of a high profile hire such as UTEP got with Mike Price that "only" gave the Miners some Top 25 rankings in just his 2'nd year in El Paso?

I know, "If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas." (a Monday Night Football quote from Dandy Don Meredith)

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The only real surprise to me with all this is the non-success of NT head basketball Coach Johnny Jones. He would have been my odds on favorite of all our most recent head coaching hires of recent years to be the one who succeeded and one who succeeded at a much higher level than that of an SBC competition level. (Will UNT baskeball ever be able to get past the 1'st round of an NCAA basketball tourney or is that honor for other schools but not the one located in west Denton, Texas, and the one near those 2 Texas interstates)?

It baffles the best of our alums who follow Mean Green basketball almost religiously why basketball at UNT just cannot seem to get out of the starting blocks after a few good seasons under Bill Blakely back in the 1970's. Amazingly, the time old yet ageless Super Pit is still as good a basketball venue as many, many schools have in NCAA Division One across the USA. (Anyone don't think SMU would trade Moody Coliseum or TCU their Daniel Meyers Coliseum for the Super Pit in what would take about a New York minute)?

It's just not the best of times for NT athletics as we still seem to have only one varsity coach above .500.

And just not sure why another NT varsity head coach was told in a recent Fort Worth Star Telegram feature article that she will get yet another contract extension (UNT leadership's seemed favorite past time in Denton) to add onto her present 17 year career at UNT.

Can any of you also visualize that we will in our future probably have 2 NT varsity coaches presently on staff who will probably one day be voted into the NT Athletic Hall of Fame with neither who will have above .500 W/L records? Wonder if this type of thing happens at other Texas NCAA D1-A athletic programs? My guess would be that it's not.

And as far as the favorite past time part, I also wonder if some of our present group at UNT who are taking us to most unusual levels of so called success; anyway, I wonder if any of this group have looked into taking square dancing lessons, ballroom dancing, fencing or any other recreation and leisure activities rather than finding ways to extend contracts to those who will never reach .500 as long as they reside and work in Denton, Texas?

I don't understand all this rewarding of short term success at UNT with these contract extensions, either, while not seemingly looking at cumlative or overall W/L records? If you look at Ms. Slinker's 17 year career at UNT, you'd probably very quickly recognize that even many of her wins are hardly against the kind of schools NT Exes exactly have in mind for bragging rights and the kind that few would really call good bell cows as far as how to measure a coach's true effectivenesss at UNT.

And forget her post season successes as they simply do not seem to register past 1'st round games, which is even further proof that we might be the easiest push-over of an athletic program for average talent to be employed in all of NCAA D1-A AND.............with their not having to do too much to keep on getting extended contracts. Jeez! Is the State of Texas retirement and benefits package all that great for NT athletic staffers who get to hang around in Denton for awhile (no matter their W/L records)?

Not sure I can remember such a level of seemed satisfaction from NT campus leaders who have such low expectation of performance for our UNT varsity coaches; in fact, can any of you other NT Exes who've been around all this for awhile remember such an era as the one we will hopefully (soon) see coming to an abrupt end in Denton, Texas, America?

Edited February 13, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[meangreendork]

The sports are failing because the arms race has just gotten closer. DD's and JJ's performance may have been okay in previous years, but with Troy and other schools improving themselves, our coaches might have lost the edge they may have had before.

So, they either get sharper and regain/gain the lead, or they get fired. I hope the admin agrees.

[drex]

Here is a sad tidbit of trivia for you. If Jimmy Gales' 1988 team had not gone to the NCAA tournament, 'North Texas State' would never have been represented in the tournament ever. We now wonder if University of North Texas will ever make an appearance.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The sports are failing because the arms race has just gotten closer. DD's and JJ's performance may have been okay in previous years, but with Troy and other schools improving themselves, our coaches might have lost the edge they may have had before.

So, they either get sharper and regain/gain the lead, or they get fired. I hope the admin agrees.

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I agree that the main edge we have had during the Dickey Ball era was due to the fact that we were in a brand new league of schools none of whom had been all that successful in football and if they had been, it was at an NCAA D1-AA level.

You are right on, meangreendork, inasmuch as all the other schools who have been brought into the SBC are most definitely improving themselves, while many of us wonder if we will ever beat 6 year old football program Florida Atlantic U while DD is at the helm in Denton. He has his 3'rd shot at FAU this Fall and at Fouts Field (where we first lost to Schnellenberger's team).

Plus that first loss to the Miami-based football program was during a bowl year and is the very reason many of us now put the rewards of a bowl game as SBC football champion into its proper perspective which is something we probably all did our best to avoid doing back when we were getting beat by future SBC schools who were classified 1-AA the years we even went to some bowl games. All that is at the top of the list and the very reasons as to why some have used the terms "veiled" or "disguised" successes of Dickey Ball.

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Those of us who saw Hayden Fry's teams play some pretty darn good football and be quite competitive against mainstream NCAA D1-A football schools may have (at times) slighted some of Corky Nelson's best teams (who one season beat about 3 SWC football teams if memory serves me well).

Edited February 13, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[Coffee and TV]

Here is a sad tidbit of trivia for you.  If Jimmy Gales' 1988 team had not gone to the NCAA tournament, 'North Texas State' would never have been represented in the tournament ever. 

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...and the sky's blue?