DMN Recruiting Chat

[pollock]

Just saw that Ark St. got a verbal from a 6'3 330 lb linemen out of Carrolton. How is it they can come into the DFW area and pick up that size but we have to go to 2A schools to pick up a linemen who is 6-0 245?

DD had better impress with this class.

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That right there is frikken' re-god-dxxx-diculous. He's 15 miles away!

[TIgreen01]

That right there is frikken' re-god-dxxx-diculous.  He's 15 miles away!

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Well....maybe he's not good enough to play at NT?...or maybe he has family in NE Arkansas? I'll give the coaches the benefit of the doubt on most things recruiting related as I sure as heck don't know the backstory on this kid and I highly doubt anyone on this board does either...

[H-towngreen]

Rivals also had UTEP, Bama, SMU, and Tech all listed for him. DMN stated he chose ARK ST. over TCU and SMU

I'm a DD backer, but things like this drive me CRAZY!! When you look in the DMN area 100 and see Ark. St, LA LA, LA Tech, even NM ST listed repeatedly and no NT it really makes you wonder. Why is it that we have starting O-linemen who weigh 270?? Then you see schools come into our ground and just pick up a 330 lbs linemen like their picking cherries. It makes no sense to me. I am impressed by many of the people listed in the MGR recruiting section, but when you get to the O line there is not much there. Both in terms of number of prospects and then their size. For a team that runs the ball as much as we do, big hogs on the line are critical. And when you have 2 starting linemen who weigh under 280 it's not a good sign.

DD AND STAFF BRING ON THE BEEF!!!!!

end of rant

Edited January 12, 2006 by H-towngreen

[Mad Hatter]

I think it still has a lot to do with how UNT is perceived by the locals. We're still not viewed as much beyond a commuter school, and there isn't a lot of energy being spent on marketing to the DFW area. I don't know what the answer is, but until the perception changes people will still think those other schools offer more.

[ipEAGLE]

You all do know that size does not always equal talent.

[H-towngreen]

True IP, but you still can not have starting linemen who weigh 270 lbs when you play D1 ball.

[DeepGreen]

True IP, but you still can not have starting linemen who weigh 270 lbs when you play D1 ball.

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And pretty much run the ball. Did anyone watch the NO bowl game against So. Mississippi? Anyone??? They stacked the line and stopped us in case you want to know!

[GangGreen]

You all do know that size does not always equal talent.

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That is a very true statement, but if Bama, Tech, UTEP, and TCU wanted him do you think he might have had some talent?

[DeepGreen]

Rivals also had UTEP, Bama, SMU, and Tech all listed for him. DMN stated he chose ARK ST. over TCU and SMU

I'm a DD backer, but things like this drive me CRAZY!! When you look in the DMN area 100 and see Ark. St, LA LA, LA Tech, even NM ST listed repeatedly and no NT it really makes you wonder. Why is it that we have starting O-linemen who weigh 270?? Then you see schools come into our ground and just pick up a 330 lbs linemen like their picking cherries. It makes no sense to me. I am impressed by many of the people listed in the MGR recruiting section, but when you get to the O line there is not much there. Both in terms of number of prospects and then their size. For a team that runs the ball as much as we do, big hogs on the line are critical. And when you have 2 starting linemen who weigh under 280 it's not a good sign.

DD AND STAFF BRING ON THE BEEF!!!!!

end of rant

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I can appreciate your being a DD back, but I fear that the handwriting is on the wall for this recruiting class and next years team. I see nothing positive in our football program since the salary problems last year and pasting we took from Tulsa. Dark times ahead, my friend.

[untbowler]

Well....maybe he's not good enough to play at NT?...or maybe he has family in NE Arkansas?  I'll give the coaches the benefit of the doubt on most things recruiting related as I sure as heck don't know the backstory on this kid and I highly doubt anyone on this board does either...

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He was also being recruited by SMU and TCU, so yes he was good enough to play here.

[NTEdgex2]

Dickey needs to take a look at some of the Trinity offensive linemen, too. Some of these Tongan kids are monsters! Most all are good, polite kids, too, or else their mothers would kill them.

GMG!

[Texas Stranger]

I got to know quite a few Tongans when I worked at DFW back in the day. If you'll notice, very few of them sign with the BcS schools in this area not even UT/aTm/TT or OU They usually go to the West Coast, where most of the Euless Polynesian families migrated from in the 1980's. Many came from Salt Lake City and the Bay Area, you will see Utah and BYU able to recruit quite a few from Trinity almost every year. It's a family/cultural thing.

[TicketJohn]

Not trying to be argumenative, but the only D-I guy on that line is already committed (Saia Falahola to Arizona State). The guys on the rest of the line don't have D-I height or body type. That O-line as a whole though may be the most effective group of lineman that we will ever see in 5A football. Nance ran for 3000 and 40 touchdowns, and all his fullback, Laderrick Handy did was go for 1000 and almost 20 on the ground.

[TIgreen01]

He was also being recruited by SMU and TCU, so yes he was good enough to play here.

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I remember when there was no mistaking comments like that for sarcasm...

Also, just for my own understanding, I always thought that the schools listed in these area recruiting lists or rivals were the schools that the kid was interested in...not necessarily which schools were actively recruiting him. Anyone know for sure?

[buff64]

Rivals also had UTEP, Bama, SMU, and Tech all listed for him. DMN stated he chose ARK ST. over TCU and SMU

I'm a DD backer, but things like this drive me CRAZY!! When you look in the DMN area 100 and see Ark. St, LA LA, LA Tech, even NM ST listed repeatedly and no NT it really makes you wonder. Why is it that we have starting O-linemen who weigh 270?? Then you see schools come into our ground and just pick up a 330 lbs linemen like their picking cherries. It makes no sense to me. I am impressed by many of the people listed in the MGR recruiting section, but when you get to the O line there is not much there. Both in terms of number of prospects and then their size. For a team that runs the ball as much as we do, big hogs on the line are critical. And when you have 2 starting linemen who weigh under 280 it's not a good sign.

DD AND STAFF BRING ON THE BEEF!!!!!

end of rant

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I might hazard a guess that the kid has not passed the test allowing him to attend a Texas University, hence only out of state schools were available to him. This happens quite often , look at the top 100state recruits and notice how many only consider out of state schools.

[Seminole Indian]

I might hazard a guess that the kid has not passed the test allowing him to attend a Texas University, hence only out of state schools were available to him. This happens quite often , look at the top 100state recruits and notice how many only consider out of state schools.

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Well stupidity, excuse me rationalization, is a common thing when it comes to the recruiting wars.

I look for ASU to do very well in Texas this year because we have done well in the past, and we are playing a lot of Texans. Guys like Myron Anderson, Quinton Thomas, Devertt Wade, Montice Harrison, Reggie Green, Zelos Abby, Brandon Rollins, Josh Williams, Curtis Bonds, Troy White, and Chris Easley , have all played key roles in ASU’s turnaround. Look for red-shirts like L.J. Williams, Travis Jones, Jerrell Norman and Jonathan Hissam to contribute next year.

Hey, if we could not beat you guys with non-Texans, might as well try it with Texans, right?

Edited January 13, 2006 by Seminole Indian

[Seminole Indian]

Well stupidity, excuse me rationalization, is a common thing when it comes to the recruiting wars.

I look for ASU to do very well in Texas this year because we have done well in the past, and we are playing a lot of Texans. Guys like Myron Anderson, Quinton Thomas, Devertt Wade, Montice Harrison, Reggie Green, Zelos Abby, Brandon Rollins, Josh Williams, Curtis Bonds, Troy White, and Chris Easley , have all played key roles in ASU’s turnaround. Look for red-shirts like L.J. Williams, Travis Jones, Jerrell Norman and Jonathan Hissam to contribute next year.

Hey, if we could not beat you guys with non-Texans, might as well try it with Texans, right?

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Add Prince Hickman and Kelvin Cox to that list.

[j0nat8an]

I think it still has a lot to do with how UNT is perceived by the locals.  We're still not viewed as much beyond a commuter school, and there isn't a lot of energy being spent on marketing to the DFW area.  I don't know what the answer is, but until the perception changes people will still think those other schools offer more.

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i think you're on to something. it may be more difficult to recruit the dfw area because it may seem more prestigious for athletes to go off to ASU where no one's ever heard of and that athlete can build up the program in the minds of friends and family rather than trying to build up the NT program to people who have looked down on us their whole lives. since no one (including the students and alumni) knows the good things going on up here it's a more difficult sell.

[mad dog]

I suppose you're talking about Tyson Holligan. I was actually down at a few Newman Smith games this last season, taking a look at a few prospects that showed up at our camp this past summer.

On paper, Holligan looks superb. He is huge, but I personally felt like 6'3 might have been a little generous. He is probably legitimately close to 330, but that's mostly bulk.

The knock on him I saw when watching him is his conditioning. Towards the end of the game, he could hardly be in for succesive plays without needing a breather. He and linemate Jesse Funk seemed to rotate out series. While Funk routinely played both sides of the ball and showed terrific conditioning, Holligan wore down quickly and was sucking wind for the entire second half.

Although he is strong, I'd have to say that he is probably high school strong, and will definitely suffer at the next level if he doesn't improve his strength.

He has pretty well maxed out his frame right now, and the only way he's going to be a worthwhile lineman is with a LOT of conditioning and a LOT of strength training, to replace the bulk with muscle. Buyer beware.

[emmitt01]

You all do know that size does not always equal talent.

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Yeah, it's alll about the "motion in the ocean" or something like that, right?

[Seminole Indian]

i think you're on to something.  it may be more difficult to recruit the dfw area because it may seem more prestigious for athletes to go off to ASU where no one's ever heard of and that athlete can build up the program in the minds of friends and family rather than trying to build up the NT program to people who have looked down on us their whole lives.  since no one (including the students and alumni) knows the good things going on up here it's a more difficult sell.

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I agree and there is also the issue of quick PT and the fact that their are more 1A prospects in Texas than there are 1A Texas schools for them to go to.

You guys have the luxury of being able to selectively recruit by position to meet your needs because you are assured that there will be quality players available at that position. In Arkansas we simply have to take the 1A-caliber players that are available. Almost every year in Arkansas there are positions where there are no 1A caliber prospects available to recruit ( especially at the QB position).

[buff64]

Well stupidity, excuse me rationalization, is a common thing when it comes to the recruiting wars.

I look for ASU to do very well in Texas this year because we have done well in the past, and we are playing a lot of Texans. Guys like Myron Anderson, Quinton Thomas, Devertt Wade, Montice Harrison, Reggie Green, Zelos Abby, Brandon Rollins, Josh Williams, Curtis Bonds, Troy White, and Chris Easley , have all played key roles in ASU’s turnaround. Look for red-shirts like L.J. Williams, Travis Jones, Jerrell Norman and Jonathan Hissam to contribute next year.

Hey, if we could not beat you guys with non-Texans, might as well try it with Texans, right?

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Not rationalization but fact, not saying all players that go out of state fall in this catagory. There was a discussion of this on Rivals.com not long ago.

[Seminole Indian]

I suppose you're talking about Tyson Holligan.  I was actually down at a few Newman Smith games this last season, taking a look at a few prospects that showed up at our camp this past summer.

On paper, Holligan looks superb.  He is huge, but I personally felt like 6'3 might have been a little generous.  He is probably legitimately close to 330, but that's mostly bulk.

The knock on him I saw when watching him is his conditioning.  Towards the end of the game, he could hardly be in for succesive plays without needing a breather.  He and linemate Jesse Funk seemed to rotate out series.  While Funk routinely played both sides of the ball and showed terrific conditioning, Holligan wore down quickly and was sucking wind for the entire second half.

Although he is strong, I'd have to say that he is probably high school strong, and will definitely suffer at the next level if he doesn't improve his strength.

He has pretty well maxed out his frame right now, and the only way he's going to be a worthwhile lineman is with a LOT of conditioning and a LOT of strength training, to replace the bulk with muscle.  Buyer beware.

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Lets face it almost every player that signs with a Non-BCS school probably has a few short comings (height, weight, speed) compared to those that do. I seem to recall a DL who recently played at UNT who was too short.

The bottom line is that the kids ASU is getting from Texas are probably the big reason we have closed the gap that existed between us and UNT, so if you don't mind I'll trust our (and the SMU and TCU) coaches opinion over yours. Beside ASU is not recruiting against UNT for players, theyare recruiting against SMU, TCU, Tulsa,UTEP, Rice and Houston in most cases.

[mad dog]

so if you don't mind I'll trust our (and the SMU and TCU) coaches opinion over yours.

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Go right ahead. I guess it does take an experienced coaching mind and a keen understanding of the finer points of coaching and scouting to recognize when a player is hunched over on the sideline gasping for air after one series of play.

Edited January 13, 2006 by illuvius32

[Seminole Indian]

Go right ahead.  I guess it does take an experienced coaching mind and a keen understanding of the finer points of coaching and scouting to recognize when a player is hunched over on the sideline gasping for air after one series of play.

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Well, because I was not there and do not know the circumstances I am not in a position to argue the point. I do know that Texas Tech said that their only reason for not offering him was his height. That was not a problem for TCU, SMU or ASU.