Not One Top 100 Area Recruit

Mean Green Sig · December 29, 2005

Did anyone else read the Dallas Morning News Sports Day on Christmas Day? They listed the Top 100 Area, State and National Recuits and their choices.

Would you believe that not one of the Top 100 Area recruits even had UNT as a consideration.

I saw plenty of guys considering Tulsa, SMU, U of H, UTEP ..... but not 1 guy even listed UNT as a possibility.

What does that say about our recruiting of top athletes here in our own back yard.

On a side note..... Fox Sports ranked the Bowl games to watch. No surprise that the New Orleans Bowl was dead last! Even the San Diego County Empolyee Credit Union Bowl ranked above the New Orleans Bowl.

So, please no more posts on how great it was to win 4 conference championships in the absolutely worst conference in Division I-A and to go to the worst bowl game there is.

What else does it say about the program that when we go to the worst bowl game that we get smoked 3 out of the 4 years.

This is not a good football program!

GoMeanGreen1999 · December 29, 2005

and there are STILL people on here that want to keep DD here. That is really sad that after building this program for 8 years, we don't have one single kid in the AREA top 100 that has NT on their list.

meangreendork · December 29, 2005

I don't think anyone wants Dickey here, I think that they don't see another alternative. I see lots of people wanting Dickey gone (myself included if he doesn't prove himself in the next season), but no one is showing any candidates to replace him.

good_ken · December 29, 2005

To be fair, when did Jamario show up as being interested in UNT (as he was one one of those lists)? Not 'til after the Banquet; when he orally committed. The Banquet has traditionally been our big recruiting weekend. Patience people, patience.

And for those that don't know about recruiting, we are currenlty in a "dead period" where contact with recruits is restricted (prohibited I belive); so any list will probably de dated to before the quiet period.

Edited December 29, 2005 by good_ken

bison · December 29, 2005

Oh the promises we have heard and seen no results for eight years -- wait until (fill in with your favorite time) and things will get better. Only when DD is gone and a coach with a winning attitude is in place.

good_ken · December 29, 2005

Oh the promises we have heard and seen no results for eight years -- wait until (fill in with your favorite time) and things will get better. Only when DD is gone and a coach with a winning attitude is in place. mad.gif

Your mixing apples and oranges here. This is a recruiting thread. In this department, DD has done pretty well. He has found talented prospects in places other would not look, and stolen some talent from bigger schools. The part that is hard for fans is that his prospects aren't in the paper every Sunday publishing their committment. But they show up on signing day, don't they?

I would suggest finding one of the many why didn't we win ___ in 2005, (or other random inflammatory thread), and publish your comment their; it would probably make more sense there.

Edited December 29, 2005 by good_ken

UNTBill · December 29, 2005

I would suggest finding one of the many why didn't we win ___ in 2005, (or other random inflammatory thread), and publish your comment their; it would probably make more sense there.
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Please clarify----I guess, I just don't get what you are trying to say.

good_ken · December 29, 2005

There are many canned phrases that people have used this year to vent their frustration with the 2005 season. I was mearly suggesting using one of these phrases (of which the prior post was one of) and posting it in one of the many inflammatory thread.

UNTBill · December 29, 2005

There are many canned phrases that people have used this year to vent their frustration with the 2005 season. I was mearly suggesting using one of these phrases (of which the prior post was one of) and posting it in one of the many inflammatory thread.
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Understood-----Thanks

SUMG · December 29, 2005

Dickey had one great recruiting class....the 2000 class. That's the one which had 5-6 legit State 100s in it (Booger, Cody Spencer, Buckles, Taylor Casey, etc.).

The rest of his classes have been average to mediocre.

We lived off of that one great class....and made it to the four bowls.

Now, the last 4 average to mediocre classes....are coming home to roost....as evidenced by this year's 2-9 season.

We have four UNT players in the pros right now. In 4 years, Matt Simon recruited two of those (Brad Kassell; Brian Waters). In 8 years, Dickey recruited the other two (Cody Spencer, Adrian Awasome).

39-55 after 8 years. And it ain't gonna get any better any time soon.

Arkstfan · December 29, 2005

On a side note..... Fox Sports ranked the Bowl games to watch. No surprise that the New Orleans Bowl was dead last! Even the San Diego County Empolyee Credit Union Bowl ranked above the New Orleans Bowl.
So, please no more posts on how great it was to win 4 conference championships in the absolutely worst conference in Division I-A and to go to the worst bowl game there is.
What else does it say about the program that when we go to the worst bowl game that we get smoked 3 out of the 4 years.
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Worst bowl game my aunt's fanny. At least the viewers saw a better game than they did from a number of games this year.

Just because some arrogant snot who never saw either team play on TV and probably can't name the color of the helmets much less the starting QB is an "expert" on what is the best bowl game?

My grandpa used to tell the story of the two frogs in a milk can. One saw there was no way out, gave up and drowned. The other kept kicking and kicking until he finally churned up butter, stood on it and lept out to safety.

Losers who sit around and whine about what some snot sitting behind a computer in New York City thinks about COLLEGE FOOTBALL are headed to the bottom of the milk can.

The winners will be the ones that keep kicking and eat it up when them big school leg humpers disrespect them because it puts even more fire in their belly.

UNTLifer · December 29, 2005

Dickey had one great recruiting class....the 2000 class. That's the one which had 5-6 legit State 100s in it (Booger, Cody Spencer, Buckles, Taylor Casey, etc.).
The rest of his classes have been average to mediocre.
We lived off of that one great class....and made it to the four bowls.
Now, the last 4 average to mediocre classes....are coming home to roost....as evidenced by this year's 2-9 season.
We have four UNT players in the pros right now. In 4 years, Matt Simon recruited two of those (Brad Kassell; Brian Waters). In 8 years, Dickey recruited the other two (Cody Spencer, Adrian Awasome).
39-55 after 8 years. And it ain't gonna get any better any time soon.
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So true. Most coaches are given 4 or 5 years to turn their program around and get their recruits through the system. DD's been given 8 and the program is now headed in the wrong direction.

This "stealth" recruiting is the same attitude he takes in preparing for OOC games. He does this because deep down DD doesn't believe he can compete with the "big boys." A team will always reflect the attitude of its coach/leader.

Edited December 29, 2005 by UNTLifer

DeepGreen · December 29, 2005

A team will always reflect the attitude of its coach/leader.
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The speed of the captain is the speed of the crew.

Stan R · December 29, 2005

This "stealth" recruiting is the same attitude he takes in preparing for OOC games. He does this because deep down DD doesn't believe he can compete with the "big boys." A team will always reflect the attitude of its coach/leader.
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Ouch. Sad but true.

December 29, 2005

Your mixing apples and oranges here. This is a recruiting thread. In this department, DD has done pretty well. He has found talented prospects in places other would not look, and stolen some talent from bigger schools. The part that is hard for fans is that his prospects aren't in the paper every Sunday publishing their committment. But they show up on signing day, don't they?
I need some help here, good ken. I'm struggling to recall any prospect that we stole away from anyone. We may have gotten a recruit or two that another school wanted (Jamario Thomas comes to mind) but none that committed to a Division 1A and decided to go with us. On second thought, I believe that Alex Pahulu changed his committment from SMU to us a few years back.
In this day and age of rapid communication and a multitude of recruiting gurus, I find it hard to believe that anyone worth his salt is a veritable unknown to any Division 1A school. Now, Coach Dickey's staff has done decently in identifying some late bloomers that could/have be/been good players here. He's also making some inroads in Oklahoma. But, I think that we should be going after top or near top recruits, not just the one's that few want and even if they don't choose us, let the world know that we were considered.
And, from what I've observed our prospects that show up on signing day have seldom been in the paper; at least not in the Dallas-Fort Worth area papers. Please correct me where I'm wrong.

IslandEagle · December 30, 2005

Well, we stole Buckles (a state top 55 recruit) away from UH and Baylor, we stole Kennedy away from SMU, we stole Taylor Casey away from Tech and UTEP, we stole Michael Pruitt away from Kansas (they were stunned when he switched), we stole Scott Hall and Brad Kassell away from A&M. A&M wanted Hall as a DB. We stole Jamel Branch away from UH. Lineberry was a state top 100 (Houston Chronicle) recruit who was wanted badly by Louisiana Tech, UH and Tulane. Kansas State was pushing our our new AA OL recruit, Trent Stanley and Louisiana Tech had already offered him a scholarship and Woody Wilson was p;ursued by several Big 12 schools, who stated that they wanted him as a DB.
So, we don't strike out entirely in this category, though we obviously need to have a few more wins like this.

emmitt01 · December 30, 2005

"But, I think that we should be going after top or near top recruits, not just the one's that few want and even if they don't choose us, let the world know that we were considered."

I show us going head to head with schools like Purdue, Iowa State, Kansas, TCU, New Mexico, Oklahoma State, Utah, Kansas State, Tulane, Utep..and in a one-on-one battle with Tulsa for a 6'5" 329 D-tackle.

We're knocking on some of the same doors, whether they're answering is the next question.

meanrob · December 30, 2005

I will say this, anybody who believes in rating the bowls before the games are even played isn't much of a football fan. More like a fan of publicity or hype.

Last years Liberty Bowl was a great game, the Orange Bowl was a dud.

I'll take the game over hype any day.

GrandGreen · December 30, 2005

Well, we stole Buckles (a state top 55 recruit) away from UH and Baylor, we stole Kennedy away from SMU, we stole Taylor Casey away from Tech and UTEP, we stole Michael Pruitt away from Kansas (they were stunned when he switched), we stole Scott Hall and Brad Kassell away from A&M. A&M wanted Hall as a DB. We stole Jamel Branch away from UH. Lineberry was a state top 100 (Houston Chronicle) recruit who was wanted badly by Louisiana Tech, UH and Tulane. Kansas State was pushing our our new AA OL recruit, Trent Stanley and Louisiana Tech had already offered him a scholarship and Woody Wilson was p;ursued by several Big 12 schools, who stated that they wanted him as a DB.
So, we don't strike out entirely in this category, though we obviously need to have a few more wins like this.
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Come again? Buckles did not qualify until late and NT did a great job getting him, but NT did not steal him from anyone. Kennedy was not offered by SMU, so I am not sure we stole him. Pruitt did change his committment from Kansas, NT had about six other players from NEO at the time so NT benefitted. Kassell was not offered another 1a ship per him. How is recruiting player to a position that no other school wants to play them, stealing a player?

Do you realize how pathetic this list is. In eight years of recruiting you can only name a handful that had legit offers from other 1a schools. Imo NT should be recruiting at least evenly with La Tech, Houston, SMU, UTEP, and Tulane; not getting crazy when we beat them out for a random recruit or two and calling it a steal.

NT has gotten some great recruits and will continue to do so. But imo NT cannot build a program without being competive in recruiting with at least the non-power conference teams. Not that many have not turned out to be good contributors to the programs; but to depend on players that are not highly sought will never get NT's program level out of the bottom third of the teams.

IslandEagle · December 30, 2005

Come again? Buckles did not qualify until late and NT did a great job getting him, but NT did not steal him from anyone. Kennedy was not offered by SMU, so I am not sure we stole him. Pruitt did change his committment from Kansas, NT had about six other players from NEO at the time so NT benefitted. Kassell was not offered another 1a ship per him. How is recruiting player to a position that no other school wants to play them, stealing a player?
Do you realize how pathetic this list is. In eight years of recruiting you can only name a handful that had legit offers from other 1a schools. Imo NT should be recruiting at least evenly with La Tech, Houston, SMU, UTEP, and Tulane; not getting crazy when we beat them out for a random recruit or two and calling it a steal.
NT has gotten some great recruits and will continue to do so. But imo NT cannot build a program without being competive in recruiting with at least the non-power conference teams. Not that many have not turned out to be good contributors to the programs; but to depend on players that are not highly sought will never get NT's program level out of the bottom third of the teams.
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Sorry, but Kennedy WAS offered by SMU. I got the newspaper clipping from the signing where he says that SMU was coming on strong right before signing day. Buckles was a late qualifier, but other schools had been on him and did say they would offer him IF he did qualify (from Austin American). We got him because we never let up on him, while other schools let him "sit" while he was trying to get qualified. Kassell was listed high in both the A&M and Baylor lists from that year, of which I have copies in my archives. Maybe they never offered him (as I recall A&M was trying to swing a "preferred walk-on" deal with him), but he was ranked high in their lists of prospects.

Oh yes, by the way if we use your "logic", we should have NEVER offered Cobbs, Brewster, Awasom, Knowlton and Quinn scholarships because those paragons of football talent, SMU and La. Tech didn't want them.

December 30, 2005

Kennedy may have been offered by SMU but he did not accept. It was published that North Texas was the only 1A offer that Kassell had but the question is moot since he was not a Dickey recruit. To me, stealing from someone is when a person has verbally committed to another school and we get him to change his mind. If you consider everyone that we compete with and win for a player to be stealing then the list is indeed pathetic. We must have had an overwhelming majority that we were the only one offering.

I don't understand your meaning of "logic." Cobbs had no other offers but a Division II school in Missouri. Brewster was not a recruit but came in as a preferred walk-on and was so impressive that he was awarded a scholarship. Awasom was a late bloomer and a possible basketball recruit but was a gem turned up by the Dickey staff. Quinn accepted after Texas Tech refused to offer him and Coach Martin insisted that we grab him in a hurry. I don't really remember what offers Knowlton had but I'll admit that he was a great player for us.

GG smiply said that we need to get as much of a share of the "blue chip" players as SMU, Tulsa and La Tech if we want to compete with them on the field. I realize that not every ranked player is going to be a success but a much higher percentage will be than the unknowns. In fact, I don't recall any highly sought after player that we signed recently that was a bust (well, maybe Roy Bishop).

We still have a chance at a few high quality players this year. The vast majority are from Houston area, including one from the Island. I hope that we can land them because we're sure not getting any from DFW.

good_ken · December 30, 2005

To me, stealing from someone is when a person has verbally committed to another school and we get him to change his mind.

That would be Michael Pruitt. He had verballed to Kansas, and changed his mind to come to Denton. That definiton would also include the DE Gilmore, as he had verbaled to UTEP.

In fact, I don't recall any highly sought after player that we signed recently that was a bust (well, maybe Roy Bishop).

To date, that would be Mr Ieans. We fought hard with Arizona to win his services.

GrandGreen · December 30, 2005

Sorry, but Kennedy WAS offered by SMU. I got the newspaper clipping from the signing where he says that SMU was coming on strong right before signing day. Buckles was a late qualifier, but other schools had been on him and did say they would offer him IF he did qualify (from Austin American). We got him because we never let up on him, while other schools let him "sit" while he was trying to get qualified. Kassell was listed high in both the A&M and Baylor lists from that year, of which I have copies in my archives. Maybe they never offered him (as I recall A&M was trying to swing a "preferred walk-on" deal with him), but he was ranked high in their lists of prospects.
Oh yes, by the way if we use your "logic", we should have NEVER offered Cobbs, Brewster, Awasom, Knowlton and Quinn scholarships because those paragons of football talent, SMU and La. Tech didn't want them.
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Kennedy was not offered per more recentKennedy article. However even if he was, so what. The 2000 recruiting year was excellent and everyone should know this. There were 6 or 7 on the state 100 lists, which is more than DD has signed in the 5 years after that. Spencer, Casey, Gardner, Buckles, Kennedy, Hall, Zuniga, Jones and others were all in that class. If the rest of DD's classes were remotely close to 2000, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. My question with much better support, facilities, and records; why has NT not come close to recruiting that level since 2000?

How in the heck did you get out of my post that my logic indicated that we would have never offered anyone because La Tech and SMU did not want them. My point was that signing a recruit over the likes of La Tech and SMU should not be considered a "steal", but the norm. . Kassel was recruited by Simon not DD so I am not sure how he fits into this discussion. I also stated that we get good recruits just not enough to go into a higher tier of football.

Any time you question DD's recruiting you are immediately reminded of all the great players he has signed. I got a message for you, NT got excellent players when we were 1aa, just not enough of them to compete at the highest level. There are a lot of players that are under the so called radar that turn out to be players that could play for anyone. I sometimes think that we have fans that have not been advised that NT is a 1a program and they are estatic with recruiting classes that are close to Corky Nelson's.

GrandGreen · December 30, 2005

Steals by what I believe to be the most common usage are players that are not heavily recruited that turn out to be excellent players. Most DD's signees are lightly recruited at the 1A leval and many turn out to be solid or great players. So by this definition, NT has a great number of steals.

If steals are defined as taking players that have committed to another, there are very few NT steals that I can think of. Pruitt from Kansas State was probably the biggest. Others were Harrison from New Mexico, Gilmore from UTEP and Zuniga from ULALA.

I don't consider it a steal to hang on to a player that gets a late rush after qualifying or late in the recruiting process when the shifting begins and some teams have late ships to fill. Examples of these players are Bishop, Thomas, and I am sure many others.

eeally · December 30, 2005

I firmly support Dickey! No way you can boot someone who has 4 rings! I think he has pretty good game plans and coaches very well. However to have 0 looking at UNT at this stage is cause to worry! We should have the metroplex buzzed at hey maybe UNT would be a good fit. Maybe we do not even go after top 100 area. If we don't that is just a waste.

Recruiting needs to be a top priority for this program right now! And Stealth recruiting is not the way. We need to get some guys on board and create a buzz about UNT.