Boise State

GoMeanGreen1999 · December 29, 2005

Don't know how or what they did to get so far ahead of us, but they are miles ahead. They are trying, coming back against Boston College, to say undeafeated in bowl games.

meangreendork · December 29, 2005

Zabransky gave up the INT. As close as they were, I think Boise should've called the run. They had the position to win the game, but that INT killed their chance. It's sad, but that's how it goes. I have to say though, that BC didn't really earn the game, they got very, very lucky.

And how Boise got so far? They're in a better conference to begin with, and they also have/had a better coach, they have better publicity. Their OC (now HC) is better than Dickey.

Now for the Mich/Neb game.

GoMeanGreen1999 · December 29, 2005

Yet so many on here think the WAC is a bad conference to be in and we shouldn't go there if given the chance.

Baby Arm! · December 29, 2005

Yet so many on here think the WAC is a bad conference to be in and we shouldn't go there if given the chance.
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It's not that the WAC is a BAD conference, I liked the competition the first time we were in it and it was called the Big West!!

It's the logistics of the WAC that are bad. Travel distance/exspense, games in western time zones, etc.... It's just not a good fit for us.

GoMeanGreen1999 · December 29, 2005

So lets just stay in the Sun Belt so it's good for us travel wise, but we never really get better? Come on now.

meangreendork · December 29, 2005

No, we don't stay in the belt- we join CUSA or the Mountain West. Whoever offers first. CUSA certainly has better in-region possibilities. Now if our team can consistently beat the CUSA teams, we might get a bid.

Arkstfan · December 29, 2005

Has it occured to any of you folks that get a boner over the WAC that Boise State became a very good team while playing in the WORST CONFERENCE IN AMERICA??

How did they do it?

Well they built great facilities for a school with that level of budget. They have an awesome recruiting base, if I remember right the state of Idaho produced TWO I-A recruits last year, one signed by Boise and one signed by Idaho. They waded off into the highly contested California recruiting grounds (along with other western states) and found players that could run and could play their run + deep pass offense. They scheduled a lot of I-AA games at home and basically avoided ever going on the road against BCS schools that were a serious threat to be in the Top 25.

They built their PROGRAM and that opened the door for them to get into a better league.

They were merely following the same path of Fresno State. The Bulldogs built a great Big West program and got called up for membership in the GOOD WAC (ie. the one that had BYU, Utah, Colorado State, Wyoming, etc).

Conference membership doesn't build programs. Fans, coaches and the quality of administration at a university builds a program. WAC membership has done wonders for San Jose State or could it be they have crappy stadium in need of work and have an administration that hasn't made the right moves? Conference membership builds programs? Yeah those football dynasties at Baylor, Vanderbilt, Duke, Mississippi State, etc are proof positive.

emmitt01 · December 29, 2005

Has it occured to any of you folks that get a boner over the WAC that Boise State became a very good team while playing in the WORST CONFERENCE IN AMERICA??
How did they do it?
Well they built great facilities for a school with that level of budget. They have an awesome recruiting base, if I remember right the state of Idaho produced TWO I-A recruits last year, one signed by Boise and one signed by Idaho. They waded off into the highly contested California recruiting grounds (along with other western states) and found players that could run and could play their run + deep pass offense. They scheduled a lot of I-AA games at home and basically avoided ever going on the road against BCS schools that were a serious threat to be in the Top 25.
They built their PROGRAM and that opened the door for them to get into a better league.
They were merely following the same path of Fresno State. The Bulldogs built a great Big West program and got called up for membership in the GOOD WAC (ie. the one that had BYU, Utah, Colorado State, Wyoming, etc).
Conference membership doesn't build programs. Fans, coaches and the quality of administration at a university builds a program. WAC membership has done wonders for San Jose State or could it be they have crappy stadium in need of work and have an administration that hasn't made the right moves? Conference membership builds programs? Yeah those football dynasties at Baylor, Vanderbilt, Duke, Mississippi State, etc are proof positive.
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Careful there man. Making sense on this message board will get you killed.

Say it with me:

"Higher Expectations...Unacceptable!" Repeat until utipia forms around you.

Stan R · December 29, 2005

WHOA! Tap on the brakes a bit there Arkstfan! Baylor may not be a "football dynasty" but if you are asking me personally if I like to switch places I'd say the answer is most definately YES! Their facilities are 10X better than ours, fan support is 2x as much, they have 2x better recruiting, etc.. And to top it off they are finally beating teams in the BIG 12. And using DUKE as an example is apples and oranges and you know it. They are a basketball school that happens to play football as well.

I don't think you can spin this one as a positive for staying in the belt. I know you are trying to convince us to stay and "build the belt" but I'm fed up with that logic. For NT, it is painfully obvious that we have a 30-40% increase in attendance when a name school comes in the door. NONE of the sun belt schools were name schools except for NMSU. With the addition of F*U we have sripped the conference down to nothing. If you really think we should turn down either MWEST, CUSA or (I'm seriously reconsidering the WAC decision as well) then you are smoking too much hashish up there in Arkansas.

Now I know you're a litigator so fire away!

LoveMG · December 29, 2005

Can we get our WAC invite back? I have had it with the SuckBelt!

Arkstfan · December 29, 2005

#1. I'm not trying to convince you to stay in the Belt. Your administration has made that decision already.

#2. No one comes to the Sun Belt games. Gee is it because you are playing SBC schools or is it because UNT's record going into your home conference opener has been:

2001 0-5

2002 3-5

2003 1-3

2004 0-4

2005 1-2 (you remember the 108-9 debacles the two weeks prior)

Why don't you hold off assuming what sort of crowd you can draw for Sun Belt teams until you open league play at home sniffing a .500 record?

What about the games that drew well?

2005 Tulsa game you came in 1-0 on the heels of 4 bowl appearances and three straight winning seasons.

2003 Baylor. They brought some fans, UNT was 0-1 but had done a credible job against an OU team coming off a top 5 ranking and a 12-2 record.

2001 TCU. Season opener against a neighbor.

2000 Baylor Season opener against basically a neighbor.

The problem with UNT's attendance for Sun Belt games is that A. We aren't located in Texas and can't bring as many fans with us and B. You've already run the fans off with your non-conference play.

#3. No need to hit the brakes regarding Baylor. Their share of Big 12 money is roughly equal to UNT's entire budget.

You said they are finally beating teams in the Big 12. They beat TWO of them last year. The last place team in the South and one of the three tied at 4-4 and second place in the North. That is a 100% improvement over the three years prior when they went 1-7 in the Big 12, and an improvement over the 0-8 campaigns over 1999, 2000, and 2001. At that pace they should go .500 in the South in 2011. They have a whopping 19 wins since 2000 and 6 are over I-AA's. 2 over UNT and 2 over SMU.

Yeah I'd trade places with them too because I think our administration might actually be capable of generating RESULTS given their advantages in money, TV, and bowl access, but Baylor's sure hasn't.

Over the long-term good management yields good results. If it smells like a turd in the Sun Belt it will smell worse, not better in a tougher league.

San Jose State went 2-9, 3-8, 3-8 in its last three years in the Big West. They stepped up to the WAC and where is the great success? Oh yeah they tied for next to last in the WAC this year. They tied with Utah State who tied for last in the Sun Belt last year, and they tied with Idaho, who tied for last in the Sun Belt last year. What's more attendance fell at Utah State and Idaho playing in that superior league.

I wouldn't be turning my nose up at the F*U's given UNT is 0-2 against one of them and only 1-0 against the other (an impressive win I might add given it was by three points despite FIU turning the ball over EIGHT times). If you think a school that has beaten you in consecutive years is beneath you I suggest stop standing on your head and stand on your feet to get a better viewpoint on the action.

The bottom line remains the same. If you cannot achieve in the Sun Belt you cannot achieve anywhere and sitting around hoping for membership in a league that is even stronger is counter-productive because you won't achieve there without having built a program.

TIgreen01 · December 29, 2005

For NT, it is painfully obvious that we have a 30-40% increase in attendance when a name school comes in the door. NONE of the sun belt schools were name schools except for NMSU.
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Where have you been the last 5 years?? Was it not obvious that we've improved our attendance greatly in that timespan?? Maybe we don't sell out every single game, but the average attendance of butts in seats is WAY up. If you throw out the Texas Stadium games or the occassional BU @ Fouts game, those seasons had crowds near 10k for half the games....this year we were up around 15 or better every game but the Thanksgiving game (where all the students were at home). That's a 30% increase for a 2-9 team. Now, if we lose like that again next year, attendance will drop out...but you can't just magically jump into the Big 12 and claim that will save attendance....we're doing it the right way.

UNTLifer · December 29, 2005

For all of you that want to jump to the WAC just take a look at La Tech and their financial situation due to the travel costs.

NT80 · December 29, 2005

For all of you that want to jump to the WAC just take a look at La Tech and their financial situation due to the travel costs.
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...all that $ spent for what? Just to whip UNT?

Stan R · December 29, 2005

The bottom line remains the same. If you cannot achieve in the Sun Belt you cannot achieve anywhere and sitting around hoping for membership in a league that is even stronger is counter-productive because you won't achieve there without having built a program.
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Oh really? How'd that work out for South Florida?

NM Green · December 29, 2005

Ark State Fan - you are greatness! Wait until we start consistently getting beat by our SBC brethren - oh wait, FAU is well on their way.

Look at what the great WAC did for NMSU - 0-12!

I think this board would explode at 0-11 and the ut jerseys would be flying off the dusty shelf shortly thereafter.

MG better fix their house and next year is judgement year for this regime. I am excited because at a minimum it is going to be awesome drama!

GMG

UNTLifer · December 29, 2005

...all that $ spent for what? Just to whip UNT?
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I seem to recall a saying about the grass being greener

FirefightnRick · December 29, 2005

Excellent points as usual Arkstfan.

Rick

SilverEagle · December 29, 2005

I seem to recall a saying about the grass being greener
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So do I.

I believe that Erma Bombeck used to say that "the grass is always greener over the septic tank"......

Arkstfan · December 29, 2005

Oh really? How'd that work out for South Florida?
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Might want to rethink your example.

I-A Independent

8-3

9-2 (played four CUSA schools)

CUSA Member

7-4

4-7

Big East

6-5

One off season after three of accomplishment. Think they were on track.

Stan R · December 29, 2005

Might want to rethink your example.
I-A Independent
8-3
9-2 (played four CUSA schools)
CUSA Member
7-4
4-7
Big East
6-5
One off season after three of accomplishment. Think they were on track.
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Considering that the Big East is BCS and CUSA is far from it - I'd say going from 4-7 in CUSA to 6-5 in a BCS conference is a HUGE jump. And the point was that jumping to a "better" conference is a jump in two things, money and attendance and I believe this proves my point. You're implying that NT jumping into a better conference = getting slaughtered by better competition. What USF illustrates is that teams very quickly start recruiting to that next level because - duh they ARE at the next level. A CUSA membership would do a similar thing for NT and I'd argue that in some ways WAC could do the same. But I'm really not arguing WAC I'm really arguing CUSA.

emmitt01 · December 29, 2005

"Their facilities are 10X better than ours, fan support is 2x as much, they have 2x better recruiting, etc.."

I know it's one sentence but allow me to answer this point for point regarding Baylor.

1)They get Big XII money every year regardless of their abysmal football performance. Texas is playing in the national title game this year...and Baylor gets a cut. Gee, what kind of facilities could we build with a free 4million dollar check?

2)Their fan support isn't outstanding, sorry to ruin the party. Who do they play year in and year out? Texas, Texas Tech, Texas aTm, Oklahoma, Ok State. And who brings in the bodies or who are the people there to see? Texas, Texas Tech, Texas aTm, Oklahoma, Ok State. If Baylor played in the glorious WAC their stadium would host 11,000 per game and their budget would take the serious hit that accompanies it.

3)Let's think, which is easier to recruit to? A team that gets to play against Big XII competition or a team that plays the belt? (And before you take this as evidence that we need to move on to greener pastures let me say the following....DUH! Just go ahead and forward that call you've undoubtedly received from Britton Banowski or Kevin Weiberg to RV)

meangreendork · December 29, 2005

I think we all got mislead by the Boise State->WAC lead in.

The real debate is that NT needs to move to another conference sometime in the near future to assert itself as a legitimate program. I know it may be a few years before the entire athletics department gets itself inline for the upgrade, but it HAS to happen.

The reason that so many of us vote for CUSA now (like a lot of us did back about 2 years ago) is that CUSA is a stronger conference, it has teams closer to NT, and it gives us all of the other benefits of joining a better conference without the travel costs of the WAC.

In other words- we could play better programs without killing 1/2 the budget by flying to Hawaii. I don't think anyone here wants us to join the WAC. We'd just as soon join the MWC first.

Edited December 29, 2005 by meangreendork

Stan R · December 29, 2005

"Their facilities are 10X better than ours, fan support is 2x as much, they have 2x better recruiting, etc.."
I know it's one sentence but allow me to answer this point for point regarding Baylor.
1)They get Big XII money every year regardless of their abysmal football performance. Texas is playing in the national title game this year...and Baylor gets a cut. Gee, what kind of facilities could we build with a free 4million dollar check?
2)Their fan support isn't outstanding, sorry to ruin the party. Who do they play year in and year out? Texas, Texas Tech, Texas aTm, Oklahoma, Ok State. And who brings in the bodies or who are the people there to see? Texas, Texas Tech, Texas aTm, Oklahoma, Ok State. If Baylor played in the glorious WAC their stadium would host 11,000 per game and their budget would take the serious hit that accompanies it.
3)Let's think, which is easier to recruit to? A team that gets to play against Big XII competition or a team that plays the belt? (And before you take this as evidence that we need to move on to greener pastures let me say the following....DUH! Just go ahead and forward that call you've undoubtedly received from Britton Banowski or Kevin Weiberg to RV)
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I think this discussion has gotten a little off track.

I don't even know what I'm arguing for any more. Yes, you are basically telling me that the only reason that Baylor has better facilities is because they get extra BCS money and UT fans and A&M fans travel well.

But I was at Baylor/NT at baylor a couple years ago and I can tell you that there were I think over 30K at the game and MAYBE 5,000 NT fans. That tells me that they have loyal fan base of much higher than 11K, even to see NT. And yes maybe they would drop down to that if they were in the belt. But isn't that also proving my point? We need to use all of our resources to get out of the belt and into the same conference with other recognizable name teams.

Bottom line is that with all the "success" that NT has had over the last 5 years we are still clinging on for dear life in D1A. Set you priorities straight:

1.) Increased attendance

2.) New Stadium

3.) CUSA membership

That simple.