NT's pressing needs..

PlummMeanGreen · December 30, 2005

Dude go to bed. Its like 2 in the morning.
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Well, I am watching a good movie while posting all this. But you're right, it is late (or should I say, uh, early)?

BTW, what the heck you doing up reading all this; although, some have told me that reading my epistles or manifestos have even helped some of their sleeping disorders. That makes me feel sorta' good (and useful).

GMG!

Edited December 30, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

HoustonEagle · December 30, 2005

Plumm, how do you do it? If I asked you a yes or no question I am certain you would give a disertation to the origins of the words "yes" and "no". Just making it to the end of one of your post is a herculian feat. I mean I was proud of myself when I made it to the end of War and Peace, but that has nothing on the joy I will find when I actually make it through an entire PlummMeanGreeen post.

PlummMeanGreen · December 30, 2005

Plumm, how do you do it? If I asked you a yes or no question I am certain you would give a disertation to the origins of the words "yes" and "no". Just making it to the end of one of your post is a herculian feat. I mean I was proud of myself when I made it to the end of War and Peace, but that has nothing on the joy I will find when I actually make it through an entire PlummMeanGreeen post.
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HoustonEagle, I am at a loss on what kind of master thesis I could come up with on the "yes or no" origins. LOL! Seems I always stumble on the simple things of life! }:>(

POSSIBLE GAME PLAN FOR THE READING OF AN EPISTLE? If you choose to read any of them at all, read half in the morning and the other half at bedtime (with a warm glass of milk). I guarantee with those 2 together a restful night of slumber. }:>)

GOD BLESS TEXAS!

eulesseagle · December 30, 2005

MeanMag--

I appreciate your perception and comments. However, let me clarify. I am attaching a generic web site for your review on UNT's past performances:

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/su...texas/index.php

Take a look what DD has done since he has been here.

I will be the first to admit that DD had a hard road to hoe building a program after Coach Simon was fired. You state that we did not have a "mediocre" defense 3 years ago....ok.....i will go along with your definition of not having that mediocre of a defense 3 years ago. Texas only put up 27 against us. What do you think they will do this September in Austin and why do you think they will do that?? Sure, you can point to a one or two years where our defense, in your opinion, was not mediocre and I will partially agree. But ask yourself this...where has our defense gone since 3 years ago? Where was it last year when 3 teams hung 54+ on us?? If success breads success in winning "Dante's Inferno" (SBC) how come last year we scored 157 points to the opponents 346?? Then take a look at the provided web site and tell us where we have been compeititve in OOC games and our league's games since DD's arrival?? You have to remember that there are D-1AA football conferences that are "ranked" higher than "Dante's Inferno."

Mr. Mediocrity is proud to state that he likes to keep games close to the 4th Quarter for a "chance" to win. What kind of philosophy is that??? That is like a college student saying, " I want to keep my class grade at "C" until the final so I might have a chance to make a "B." Mr. Mediocrity philosophy is MEDIOCRITY!!

If Mr. Mediocrity changed his philosophy to, "I am here to kick your butt and the better I do it the better I feel," I would respect him more.....but to keep the score close to the 4th Quarter so we have a "CHANCE TO WIN????"

Coach Rod Rust took an EXCELLENT team up to Little Rock in 1968 to play #1 Arkansas and lost 17-15. If it were not for the life saving SWC official call on Ronnie Shanklin (actually catching the ball in the end zone: the ref. said he trapped it) we would have beat #1. Coach Rust nor any other coach I have EVER heard of EVER had a philosophy of "KEEP IT CLOSE." To me, like others of you, that is PROFESSIONAL MALFESIANCE.

Let me say this, too: Do I advocate firing DD??..NO!!!....BUT.....I have set down and I think, so far, I am the only one that has set down parameters to keep Mr. Mediocrity for another year which I have posted previously. Those parameters are: Win 2 OOC games, Run the Belt and win the NO Bowl against CUSA's #4 team. Do I personally think that he will do that?? My answer is ?????

Do I think Mr. Mediocrity is salvagable as a coach???? My answer is ?????

None of us JUST want to be competitive JUST in "Dante's Inferno"....we want to be competitive in our OOC games games too. That has not happened. That blame has to be spread around to RV and not only DD. But DD has the ULTIMATE responisbility to get the team "COMPETITIVELY" ready to play these teams, just like Coach Rust did against Arkansas,what Coach Fry did against Tennessee and what Coach Nelson (when we were D-1AA) against Texas in a game that the Texas receiver, clearly, caught the ball out of the end zone by 2-3 yards and was called a touchdown at the end of the game. That is the type of team and coaching philosophy WE ALL WANT BACK....let me repeat that.....WE WANT THAT BACK NOW!!!

MeanGreen61---

Please do not compare me with PMG.... He is much better.

buff64 · December 30, 2005

As another poster said offense sells tickets and defense wins championships- then goes on to say that selling tickets is what matters. As a fan, I find this unacceptable and I'm amazed you believe this. I could care less about selling tickets, I want to see a winner. I'd much rather see big hits, interceptions and dogpiles as a fan than a high scoring offense. I don't care about how many other people are at the game with me. It's more fun, but what do you want to see more a sold out crowd at an 0-11 team or a 11-0 team that you care about in front of 100 people?
Huh? Care to rethink that paragraph? Selling tickets and winning are not mutually exclusive BTW.
Sorry, quote tags not working.
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Offense sells tickets,ticket sales mean more money to spend on facilities, recruiting, coaches salaries = better recruits,coaches, etc. = better defenses, more wins, better conference, more notice.

ADLER · December 30, 2005

Coach Nelson (when we were D-1AA) against Texas in a game that the Texas receiver, clearly, caught the ball out of the end zone by 2-3 yards and was called a touchdown at the end of the game.
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Please people, lets get the facts straight on this. Cash was certainly out of bounds when he got his hands on the ball, but he never caught it either. That ball went through his hands an bounced away on the turf in front of him.

eulesseagle · December 30, 2005

Buff/GreenFlag---

If I may please interject on what sells tickets is not "O" or "D" !!

What sells tickets is being "COMPETITIVE" in every game you play!! I personally do not know anyone who goes to "any" game because they want to see a good "O" or "D."

What sells is going to a game that the coaches have totally prepared the team for and prepared the fans for with the expectations of "WINNING."

Mr. Mediocrity prepared us & the team for LSU by saying we have "NO" chance to win. Two years ago the TROY coach prepared his team to beat LSU, which they almost did and prepared them to beat Missouri, which they did. Who would you rather have??? A: Mr. Mediocrity or B: One that prepares to WIN?? If you remember in the opening lines of the movie "PATTON," George C. Scott (Patton) gets up on the podium and says some important lines:

1. We are here to let the other poor sum-bitch die for his country.

2. We are going to run through them like shi_ through a goose.

3. America hates a loser.

What Patton (G.C.Scott) did not say was, " well boys I don't think we have a chance."

At the Battle of the Bulge, Gen. McAlfree, told the Germans NUTS when he was surrounded....just because he was surrounded and outnumbered he didn't give up and won the battle.........."This is being prepared." "You have to be prepared for war, school and on the athletic field." If your not prepared----YOU LOOSE!!!

What type of philosophy would you rather have from your football staff and what sells tickets????

1. A good "D"

2. A good "O"

3. A coach that says," we have NO chance" in beating some teams and leaves the team UNPREPARED AND DISCOURAGED (not to say how we feel as alum/students.)

4. A coach that PREPARES a team to WIN every single game like Coach Rusk did at Arkansas, like Coach Fry did with Tennessee, like Coach Nelson did with Texas???

What sells is being COMPETITIVE and ready to kick butt. Not keeping the score close to the 4th quarter to see if we have a "CHANCE" to win!!! That philosophy is for "losers" not "winners."

DeepGreen · December 30, 2005

"You have to be prepared for war, school and on the athletic field." If your not prepared----YOU LOOSE!!!
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Damnit eulesseagle, you had me ready to put on my old combat fatigues and go kick some ass!!

But LOOSE?

Keep up the great posts!!

eulesseagle · December 30, 2005

DeepGreen-

ok.....lose

MeanMag · December 30, 2005

"As another poster said offense sells tickets and defense wins championships- then goes on to say that selling tickets is what matters. As a fan, I find this unacceptable and I'm amazed you believe this. I could care less about selling tickets, I want to see a winner. I'd much rather see big hits, interceptions and dogpiles as a fan than a high scoring offense. I don't care about how many other people are at the game with me. It's more fun, but what do you want to see more a sold out crowd at an 0-11 team or a 11-0 team that you care about in front of 100 people?"
Huh? Care to rethink that paragraph? Selling tickets and winning are not mutually exclusive BTW.
Sorry, quote tags not working.
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Let me point out that I'm not the one who implied that they were mutually exclusive. I'm pointing out that some fans care more about who and how many people are in the stands and not so much about winning.

Edit: Buff64 made my point for me.

Edited December 30, 2005 by MeanMag

MeanMag · December 30, 2005

I will be the first to admit that DD had a hard road to hoe building a program after Coach Simon was fired. You state that we did not have a "mediocre" defense 3 years ago....ok.....i will go along with your definition of not having that mediocre of a defense 3 years ago. Texas only put up 27 against us. What do you think they will do this September in Austin and why do you think they will do that?? Sure, you can point to a one or two years where our defense, in your opinion, was not mediocre and I will partially agree. But ask yourself this...where has our defense gone since 3 years ago? Where was it last year when 3 teams hung 54+ on us?? If success breads success in winning "Dante's Inferno" (SBC) how come last year we scored 157 points to the opponents 346?? Then take a look at the provided web site and tell us where we have been compeititve in OOC games and our league's games since DD's arrival?? You have to remember that there are D-1AA football conferences that are "ranked" higher than "Dante's Inferno."
Mr. Mediocrity is proud to state that he likes to keep games close to the 4th Quarter for a "chance" to win. What kind of philosophy is that??? That is like a college student saying, " I want to keep my class grade at "C" until the final so I might have a chance to make a "B." Mr. Mediocrity philosophy is MEDIOCRITY!!
If Mr. Mediocrity changed his philosophy to, "I am here to kick your butt and the better I do it the better I feel," I would respect him more.....but to keep the score close to the 4th Quarter so we have a "CHANCE TO WIN????"
Coach Rod Rust took an EXCELLENT team up to Little Rock in 1968 to play #1 Arkansas and lost 17-15. If it were not for the life saving SWC official call on Ronnie Shanklin (actually catching the ball in the end zone: the ref. said he trapped it) we would have beat #1. Coach Rust nor any other coach I have EVER heard of EVER had a philosophy of "KEEP IT CLOSE." To me, like others of you, that is PROFESSIONAL MALFESIANCE.
Let me say this, too: Do I advocate firing DD??..NO!!!....BUT.....I have set down and I think, so far, I am the only one that has set down parameters to keep Mr. Mediocrity for another year which I have posted previously. Those parameters are: Win 2 OOC games, Run the Belt and win the NO Bowl against CUSA's #4 team. Do I personally think that he will do that?? My answer is ?????
Do I think Mr. Mediocrity is salvagable as a coach???? My answer is ?????
None of us JUST want to be competitive JUST in "Dante's Inferno"....we want to be competitive in our OOC games games too. That has not happened. That blame has to be spread around to RV and not only DD. But DD has the ULTIMATE responisbility to get the team "COMPETITIVELY" ready to play these teams, just like Coach Rust did against Arkansas,what Coach Fry did against Tennessee and what Coach Nelson (when we were D-1AA) against Texas in a game that the Texas receiver, clearly, caught the ball out of the end zone by 2-3 yards and was called a touchdown at the end of the game. That is the type of team and coaching philosophy WE ALL WANT BACK....let me repeat that.....WE WANT THAT BACK NOW!!!
MeanGreen61---
Please do not compare me with PMG.... He is much better.
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EE- as I said before, I will not defend Dickey in those regards. The defenses seem to have slip every year since Deloach left. I'll tell you, giving up 27 to UT's offense I think is pretty low. Now, to give in a little bit, it sure would have been nice to have a high powered offense in that game, because I think our defense would have given them a chance. No doubt, it's going to take outstanding play on both sides to beat a Texas or LSU. Again, I'm not defending Dickey, and I think your reqs for Dickey next year are acceptable and agreeable. I want more too, but a high powered O is useless, and can be stopped by a good D. Texas Tech is a great example.

kj86 · December 30, 2005

I know what would sell a few more tickets...

MIX IN A FREAKIN' SLANT EVERY ONCE IN WHILE!

If we would use a little more of the field, maybe it wouldn't be so easy to defend against us. How 'bout that whole middle 80% of the field? Send somebody across the middle for heaven's sake.

eulesseagle · December 30, 2005

MeanMag--

Perhaps I misunderstood your post.

I agree with you that we had good defenses when Coach DeLoach was here...not a whole lot since...... and you have no point of contention with me there and I appologize if I took it the wrong way.....

Kinda goes to show what a tenatious coach can do (in this case on defense).

You, just like the majority of us, now, (and more soon to be converted) want more from our program. The question is can Mr. Mediocrity do it??? By the end of September we will know what the answer is and we should be able to judge how the rest of the 2006 FB season will turn out.

Nobody on this board can say that after 9 years at UNT that DD had a "fair" shot at turning our program around. Geeeeze.....9 years.....in the weakest D-1A conferences in America and still a losing record.

MeanMag, you are just as frustrated as all of us who NOW see:

1. No "Area 51" or top 100 state players considering UNT for the past 2-3 years.

2. Coaches that bad mouth the fans on radio and in the stands.

3. UNT being non-competitive on the OOC field of play for the last 8 years.

4. Mr. Mediocrity with a "defeatist" attitude toward some of the teams we play.

5. Some posters stated that Mr. Mediocrity would show up to practices late.

6. UNT being out recruited by D-1AA in state programs.

7. UNT being out recruited by other in/out of state Mid-Major Programs.

I believe that Mr. Mediocrity has reached the APEX of his college career at UNT!!! If he can not recruit the players we need that is the fault of his staff. If his staff can not get the players then he should have fired them long ago .... but he decided to keep them. He kept "mediocrity" in his staff.

mag, you have a happy new year.

Coffee and TV · December 31, 2005

Well, I am watching a good movie while posting all this. But you're right, it is late (or should I say, uh, early)?
BTW, what the heck you doing up reading all this; although, some have told me that reading my epistles or manifestos have even helped some of their sleeping disorders. That makes me feel sorta' good (and useful).
GMG!
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I was up because I was sick as a dog last night, and still am today. I think the anti-biotics the doc perscribed me had crack in them because I was terribly restless. I didn't get to bed until 6:30am but I did watch my newly purchased Casino DVD. DeNiro is so great in that film.

good_ken · December 31, 2005

I did watch my newly purchased Casino DVD. DeNiro is so great in that film.

Its a shame that they are going to tear down the Stardust, the Casino where that was filmed (and I believe the casino that the film is based on).

MeanMag · December 31, 2005

MeanMag--
Perhaps I misunderstood your post.
I agree with you that we had good defenses when Coach DeLoach was here...not a whole lot since...... and you have no point of contention with me there and I appologize if I took it the wrong way.....
Kinda goes to show what a tenatious coach can do (in this case on defense).
You, just like the majority of us, now, (and more soon to be converted) want more from our program. The question is can Mr. Mediocrity do it??? By the end of September we will know what the answer is and we should be able to judge how the rest of the 2006 FB season will turn out.
Nobody on this board can say that after 9 years at UNT that DD had a "fair" shot at turning our program around. Geeeeze.....9 years.....in the weakest D-1A conferences in America and still a losing record.
MeanMag, you are just as frustrated as all of us who NOW see:
1. No "Area 51" or top 100 state players considering UNT for the past 2-3 years.
2. Coaches that bad mouth the fans on radio and in the stands.
3. UNT being non-competitive on the OOC field of play for the last 8 years.
4. Mr. Mediocrity with a "defeatist" attitude toward some of the teams we play.
5. Some posters stated that Mr. Mediocrity would show up to practices late.
6. UNT being out recruited by D-1AA in state programs.
7. UNT being out recruited by other in/out of state Mid-Major Programs.
I believe that Mr. Mediocrity has reached the APEX of his college career at UNT!!! If he can not recruit the players we need that is the fault of his staff. If his staff can not get the players then he should have fired them long ago .... but he decided to keep them. He kept "mediocrity" in his staff.
mag, you have a happy new year.
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The thing that most upsets me at this point in the year is not Dickey's past record. For the past 4 of 5 years, I have been quite satisfied with the upward progress the team has presented.

The thing that really gets me most upset at this point of the year is the fact that there has been no changes made yet to this point.

Now, I'm not sure about Kenny Evans, I'm sure he is a terrific guy. We all know about Ramon Flanigan. But, I don't see how Dickey can't take steps to improve on this past year's piss poor defensive and offensive performances. I want to hear about what is happening to make sure that it doesn't happen again. I know that it isn't all these guys' fault individually. But, it looks as if nothing is being done, and if that is the case, and if what Dickey thinks needs to be done is nothing, then I will be skeptical of Dickey until Dickey proves me wrong. And, he better hope that it is the answer because if we ever have another performance like this past season under Dickey, then he will lose my vote and will have used up his one year "bye" that I am giving him. I will support Dickey, after one bad year in the past 4, but I do hope to hear something soon as to what his solution will be to not turn in another performance like last years'.

I think that we all might be on the same page here. We all are awaiting an announcement from the football offices telling the fans we won't have another performance like last year and why.

FirefightnRick · December 31, 2005

That ball went through his hands an bounced away on the turf in front of him.
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BOTH catches for TD's in the south endzone that night were bobbled and dropped. Also on a call that may actually be worse than those two was in the 1st quarter right after NT struck 1st blood and was up 7-0. tU gets the ball on their own end of the field, about the 20? on the ensuing kickoff. On the 3rd or 4th play their fullback takes a handoff straight up the middle and gets hit after a 3 yard gain. He's standing nearly straight up and clearly fumbles and NT recovers. As both teams start to walk off, including many of the NT players jumping up and down celebrating the SWC ref comes into the spot where the ball was recovered and points to the ground and gives the ball right back to the horns. The NT players just stand there looking at him, dumbfounded then start going crazy.

You want to see one of the three top worse officiated games of the modern era of American Football, watch a replay of the '88 NT vs tU game. I have a copy of it and have enjoyed watching those I have shown it to stand in amazement after seeing the string of bad calls that gave tU that game. An english professor at Oklahoma State actually heard I had a rare copy of this game and called me from Stillwater and offered to buy a copy of it. When I asked why the interest? He said he had heard of that game from some officiating friends of his from their Big 8 years and said that any team that makes tU look bad is a favorite team of his and he had to have a copy. I never asked how he heard I had a copy. I do not make copies anymore due to the concern for the quality of the tape.

As for the game, I was there, south endzone, goal line, east side, 2nd row. I'll never forget it.

Rick

Edited December 31, 2005 by FirefightnRick

eulesseagle · December 31, 2005

MeanMag--

I believe (not for certain: becuase I know someone will know) that Mr. Mediocrity hired his "new" Defensive Coordinator from ARMY. ARMY???? Don't we see ARMY football, consistantly, in the "Bottom 10" of ESPN's coveted surveys??? This is another glaring example that Mr. Mediocrity wants another mediocre or sub-mediocre coach to take and keep OUR FB program at a mediocre level. Dang, there had to be better qualified DC's out there at the time. Is Mr. Mediocrity subconsciously parinoid that hiring a quality coach would jepordize his job???? My question is, "if UNT has a coach refusing to hire coaching talent greater than his abilities then is not our current program really in Dante's Inferno??"

The last 8 years have produced a 7-38 OOC record. Yea, we have won the conference championship 4 years in a row and get the honor to play a 4th place CUSA team that is 4-1 against our conference (and with Troy getting beat 2 years ago the SBC is 1-5 in bowl games). There is now a D-1AA conference that is ranked higher than the SBC. The SBC is the worst D-1A conference in the nation and ranks "LOWER" than the best D-1AA conference in America.

Just like you and hopefully more CONVERTS in 2006 we MUST recognize, NOW what is happening in front of us NOW with the state of our FB program!!!

1. Granted Mr. Mediocrity rebuilt our program to 8 and 9 wins a few years ago BUT that success is waining fast.

2. Our talent level of recruits, IMHO, is sub-par compared to other similar universities...."we get out recruited at all levels."

3. Why can not our coaches recruit 3 or 4 star talent and JUCO All-Americans??

4. Our talent level of coaches to be innovative and adjust when needed and during games is sub-par..."we get out coached at all levels."

I have laid down my parameters to keep Mr. Mediocrity: 2 OOC wins, run the Belt and win against a 4th place CUSA team in the NO Bowl. Will he do it???? Ans: ??? but probably not!!

Unfortunately, Mr. Mediocrity has reached the APEX of his football career at UNT. Like other posters have stated the RED FLAGS have been waiving about our program:

1. Mr. Mediocrity has had "NO" other "front line" coaching offers since being at UNT. What does that tell you about our 4 SBC championships and 7-38 OOC wins.

2. RF: same as #1....he put in for the HC for Buffalo (always in ESPN's Bottom 10 list) and was not considered

3. Coach DeLoach "jumping off" a sinking ship. Evidently he knew you can not build a program out of mediocure coaching talent.

4. Inability to recruit....yea, Mr. Mediocrity inherited some talent and recruited a couple of great players but, "even a blind hog can find an acorn sometimes." Finding and pointing to a few players that have made it into the NFL from UNT during Mr. Mediocrities tenure is great and I am glad that these men made it to the NFL. My point is, OVERALL, our talent level is slowly fading away, and away, and away, and away.

5. Coaches that berate their fan support at the games and on the radio.

6. Coaches that have a "DEFEATIST ATTITUDE."

My concern is that if we have another 2-9 or 3-8 year HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER COACH AND ANOTHER COACHING STAFF TO REBUILD THIS PROGRAM??

The type of coach we get will be dependent on the type of money that our Admin deems appropriate. Probably not much. Do I care if a coach has prior bagage?? No!!! Who will be available, possibly, next year??? Ans: ???? nobody knows BUT be better have an attitude of, "I am 100% confident I can kick your butt and I have the plan to do it."