NT's pressing needs..

Stan R · December 28, 2005

So I've heard some debate that TT's offense is not the holy grail for our program. While I would somewhat agree that may not be the cure all pill, I'll ask you a couple questions first:

1.) The number one need for NT at this point is attendance. What is the cure for that?

2.) The second most important thing for NT is big money donors. What is the cure for that?

Answers:

1.) High powered passing offense that puts up points in bunches and scores 40 points on average in each game consistently. Fans like to see touchdowns and cheer and fire the silly cannon. Winning is secondary in some cases to scoring ridiculously high numbers of points.

2.) High powered passing offense that puts up points in bunches and scores 40 points on average in each game consistently. Fans like to see touchdowns and cheer and fire the silly cannon. Winning is secondary in some cases to scoring ridiculously high numbers of points.

flyonthewall · December 28, 2005

Every year we have improved attendance. Every year we get more donors. Last year we had some momentum in football and blew it.

I predict that we will sell between 28,000 and 30,000 tickets for the SMU game.

Then SMU will come in here and paste our arse like Tulsa did.

Then attendance will drop.

Then we will win 3 or 4 games (0 OOC)

Then no more diet coke boy.

ipEAGLE · December 28, 2005

Then no more diet coke boy.
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Eagle1855 · December 28, 2005

I guess if you reduce all of NT Football's shortcomings to a lack of an effective passing game, then its pretty easy to say a mere change in scheme will bring about donors, fans, etc. Of course you cant do that without ignoring all of the other factors that influence a person's attendance or donation decisions, or even the other external factors that influence NT's athletics program.

Have you considered that Texas Tech is in a bit of a different scenario than NT? Tech had a decent fanbase BEFORE Leach was hired. Tech was also in the Southwest conference and are now in the big 12. They play teams that other people in the state actually care about.

We can beat Guacamole State and Avacado U 70-3 year in and year out and those games attendance would still be surpassed by the attendance we would have if Texas or A&M came to Fouts (or the elusive new stadium). Much of our attendance issues come from lack of interest in the teams we play. So I think you should add in "joining the big 12" as part of your answer(s).

Another thing to consider is the fact that U of H had somewhat unimpressive attendance numbers when they were hanging tons of points on the SWC with their "high powered offense" in the late 80s and early 90's, and they were a top 10 program with a heisman trophy-- a far cry from the 50k+ you see at tech games. They couldnt even get people to the astrodome for games. Oh, and U of H has a huge alumni base.

In short, a high powered offense isnt an end-all. So I must disagree. I think it would be a nice start, but I would like to get that nasty defense back as well. dont get me wrong, I would like to see an effective offense, but I would rather have a BALANCED offense that can hurt you with the run and the pass--- and that wins games. That's what puts butts in seats.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Eagle1855

MeanEd · December 28, 2005

I've been thinking about the spread offense and how it would help NT. When you look at how teams play us, basically they stack 10 men in the box. They do that because our basic offensive formation allows them to do it. Our lineman take 1 foot splits and we will run 2 tight ends with one split receiver. On a spread formation, the lineman will take huge splits with 3,4 or 5 backs split all over the field. Can you imagine what types of runs Jamario would have running out of a spread formation.

SilverEagle · December 28, 2005

We can beat Guacamole State and Avacado U 70-3 year in and year out
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Yeah, we could probably beat Guacamole State

But Avacado U?? I think you're being a bit optimistic on that one.

We'd have to get at least 5 or 6 turnovers to beat them.........

ntmeangreen11 · December 28, 2005

I've been thinking about the spread offense and how it would help NT. When you look at how teams play us, basically they stack 10 men in the box. They do that because our basic offensive formation allows them to do it. Our lineman take 1 foot splits and we will run 2 tight ends with one split receiver. On a spread formation, the lineman will take huge splits with 3,4 or 5 backs split all over the field. Can you imagine what types of runs Jamario would have running out of a spread formation.
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Ehh....

It seems like we used 3 or 4 WR plays all the time, we just didn't use the shotgun, but I doubt the linemen had 1 foot splits, bigger splits=bigger holes.

MeanMag · December 29, 2005

In short, a high powered offense isnt an end-all. So I must disagree. I think it would be a nice start, but I would like to get that nasty defense back as well. dont get me wrong, I would like to see an effective offense, but I would rather have a BALANCED offense that can hurt you with the run and the pass--- and that wins games. That's what puts butts in seats.
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Don't much care for a highpowered pass it up offense. I'd rather see sick moves at running back and some sick moves by WR's that can make outstanding catches.

But, what I would love to see most of all, is that NASTY DEFENSE. I was more excited to see the defensive domination of all teams (BCS or not) 3 years ago than anything else. It would have been nice to have a little more offensive production, but god almighty that was some kind of fun to watch. Nothing got me more excited about NT football than booger and awasom crashing the backfield, or cody spencer or don mcgee or chris hurd or buckles just putting smacks on players from big name schools that I could talk about all freaking year.

I want the Defense back. I want Deloach back. But, most of all, I want a mentality on defense that if you try anything funny on us, we're going to make you pay for it in a big way. I want a defense that will make other teams want to give our offense the ball, just keep our defense off the field. That is what got me hooked on NT Football, that is what I want to see more of. That is where I want the most improvement, and biggest changes.

meangreendork · December 29, 2005

Coaching Philosophy:

MeanMag is right about our D. Since DeLoach left, it's been worse each year. There was a point when schools were scared of our Defense, simply because it would either knock the teeth out of their O, or take the ball clean out of their hands. The D was so scary that it frightened our BigXII opponents and then measured up by nailing UT's QB 7x in one game, and then causing a veritable massacre against Baylor.

As we know, Offense wins games, Defense wins (New Orleans Bowl) championships. I also strongly believe that fans LOVE to see big hits. Hits like Jonas Buckles' hit from 04, hits like the pile-up sack over Baylor. I really think those are explosive for the fans.

Our O is important, don't get me wrong, but this year, we would've gone to the NO Bowl if the D stepped up and prevented those plays that ultimately cost the season.

buff64 · December 29, 2005

Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships .

TIgreen01 · December 29, 2005

I'll add my vote for defense. I miss the days of craig jones and jonas buckles belting anything that moved....oh, and lets not forget Kassel-that guy seemed like he dove/lunged into every tackle--he wanted to punish people for coming his way....esp. if it was a run up the middle.

VideoEagle · December 29, 2005

Yes, I think our defense was our biggest weakness this year.

Even if the offense gets a lot better, we are not going to win games giving up 45+ points!

I still think a new DC is more important than a new OC.

eulesseagle · December 29, 2005

Meangreendork---

The last time teams were afraid of our "D" was during the Rod Rust era when Joe Green was playing. Also when Fry was coach and during parts of the Corkey Nelson era when we were ranked #1 (at times) when we played D-1AA.

Just for your comments, who, other than some of the SBC schools were afraid of our "D" during the last 8 years under "Mediocrity Ball?" (I am now using this phrase instead of "DD Ball" because that is what we have...."Mediocrity Ball" on offense and defense.)

I supported DD up to about a month ago until I "finally" realized what shape our program really is in. DD has reached the "APEX" of his career at UNT and possibly his future in college football. In the past, Coach Mitchell was a fine man and coach for NTSU and did a great job for what he had, Rust rode the recruiting coat tails of Mitchell's recurits (Joe Green...etc...and his claim to fame, prior to NTSU was recruiting Jim Plunkett for Stanford), I personally like Coach Nelson because he did more with less than any other NTSU/UNT coach we ever had.....we can go on and now we have "Mediocrity Ball" with DD. While others achieved on the football field knowing that we had an excellent chance of "BEATING" teams like Texas, Tennessee or Houston because they came up with the necessary "GAME PLANS", unfortunately, DD does not share that same philosophy. When Mr. Mediocrity explained to everyone that we have "NO" chance against teams like LSU then you are telling the world you have NO CONFIDENCE in yourself, your staff and your ability. You can read other posts by Plumm, Silver, King etc to get a "TRUE" picture where we have been, the history of the our program, the ineptitude of of our past and present coaches and administration and where we need to go and what HAS to be done to get there!!

For most of us we have seen the past......we know what we are capable of doing with the RIGHT coach and a POSITIVE coaching philosophy which we DO NOT HAVE with Mr. Mediocrity. I am NO longer satisfied by beating the old Southland Conference schools which now make up most of "Dante's Inferno" (SBC) and you should not be either!!! You should not be satisfied by having other Mid-Major programs beating us by 50+ points (and keeping the score down by playing everyone including their water boy), you should not be satisfied by being out recruited by D-1AA schools in the state of Texas and in "Area 51" (top 50 recruits in the DFW area). If you are "JUST" satisfied with having some mediocre football program that just fields a team for enjoyment then we can switch from D-1A to a conference that plays in the same league as Tarelton, Austin College, Sul Ross etc or field a non-scholarship team. For me, like most of you, my attitude is if we are going to field a team I want a coach that exemplifies a POSITIVE ATTITUDE, GOES AFTER THE BEST RECRUITS IN/OUT OF STATE, KNOWS THAT WHEN THE TEAM HITS THE FIELD HE HAS AN EXCELLENT CHANCE OF WINNING...NO MATTER WHO THE OTHER TEAM IS AND IS COMPLIMENTARY TO THE PEOPLE WHO COME OUT TO SUPPORT THE TEAM.

KingDL1 · December 29, 2005

I still think a new DC is more important than a new OC.
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Is that Diet Coke boy or Defensive Coordinator? I get so confused

Everybody picking on that hard working Diet Coke boy what would be do without him.

For attendance we need lots of things, the work RV has been doing making the game-day experience with tailgating has helped tons. Something on the field a little more exciting to watch could not hurt.

Wining many more of our OOC game is important.

More recognizable opponents at home for the general public.

A coach that continually gets the team and the fans pumped up and believing they can and will win. I mean not just at the game but publicly talks up our football program and why not to miss seeing our team play.

But ultimately fans will attract fans it gets contagious we can get there just DD gave the fan-base one hell of a Flu-shot this year.

Stan R · December 29, 2005

AMEN Euless!!! YOU TELL EM BUDDY! Wow it is a bit twilight zone when both PMG and Euless eagle are both bashing DD..

And I think buff64 said it best with the following:

"Offense sells tickets". He also said something about defense, but I'll remind everyone The #1 Goal IS TO SELL TICKETS!!!

DeepGreen · December 29, 2005

I'd like to weigh in on this topic. I have to say that right now, coming off of four SBC championships, four New Orleans Bowls, and the 2005 season where we dropped to 2-9, we need to create excitement. That means a little more offensive fireworks. Don't get me wrong - I love a strong defense. I attended NT during the Joe Green era, so I can appreciate what powerful, head knocking defenses can do.

NT Athletics needs money in the worse way. Good, assistant coaches need to be paid better wages so we can keep them (example DeLoach and a couple of other keepers that got away from us), we need to increase our recruiting budget, plus other items. Additional money to do these things comes from more season ticket sales and Mean Green Club membership.

People asked how Boise St leapfrogged NT and other new D1A programs. It's easy when you watch the type of football they play.

Stan R · December 29, 2005

People asked how Boise St leapfrogged NT and other new D1A programs. It's easy when you watch the type of football they play.
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That's it, short and simple.

UNTBill · December 29, 2005

I want a coach that exemplifies a POSITIVE ATTITUDE, GOES AFTER THE BEST RECRUITS IN/OUT OF STATE, KNOWS THAT WHEN THE TEAM HITS THE FIELD HE HAS AN EXCELLENT CHANCE OF WINNING...NO MATTER WHO THE OTHER TEAM IS AND IS COMPLIMENTARY TO THE PEOPLE WHO COME OUT TO SUPPORT THE TEAM.
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Great post. I don't think that's too much to ask for. It is what should be expected by all. The fans deserve it, the University deserves it, and most of all the PLAYERS deserve it.

UNTLifer · December 29, 2005

Meangreendork---
The last time teams were afraid of our "D" was during the Rod Rust era when Joe Green was playing. Also when Fry was coach and during parts of the Corkey Nelson era when we were ranked #1 (at times) when we played D-1AA.
Just for your comments, who, other than some of the SBC schools were afraid of our "D" during the last 8 years under "Mediocrity Ball?" (I am now using this phrase instead of "DD Ball" because that is what we have...."Mediocrity Ball" on offense and defense.)
I supported DD up to about a month ago until I "finally" realized what shape our program really is in. DD has reached the "APEX" of his career at UNT and possibly his future in college football. In the past, Coach Mitchell was a fine man and coach for NTSU and did a great job for what he had, Rust rode the recruiting coat tails of Mitchell's recurits (Joe Green...etc...and his claim to fame, prior to NTSU was recruiting Jim Plunkett for Stanford), I personally like Coach Nelson because he did more with less than any other NTSU/UNT coach we ever had.....we can go on and now we have "Mediocrity Ball" with DD. While others achieved on the football field knowing that we had an excellent chance of "BEATING" teams like Texas, Tennessee or Houston because they came up with the necessary "GAME PLANS", unfortunately, DD does not share that same philosophy. When Mr. Mediocrity explained to everyone that we have "NO" chance against teams like LSU then you are telling the world you have NO CONFIDENCE in yourself, your staff and your ability. You can read other posts by Plumm, Silver, King etc to get a "TRUE" picture where we have been, the history of the our program, the ineptitude of of our past and present coaches and administration and where we need to go and what HAS to be done to get there!!
For most of us we have seen the past......we know what we are capable of doing with the RIGHT coach and a POSITIVE coaching philosophy which we DO NOT HAVE with Mr. Mediocrity. I am NO longer satisfied by beating the old Southland Conference schools which now make up most of "Dante's Inferno" (SBC) and you should not be either!!! You should not be satisfied by having other Mid-Major programs beating us by 50+ points (and keeping the score down by playing everyone including their water boy), you should not be satisfied by being out recruited by D-1AA schools in the state of Texas and in "Area 51" (top 50 recruits in the DFW area). If you are "JUST" satisfied with having some mediocre football program that just fields a team for enjoyment then we can switch from D-1A to a conference that plays in the same league as Tarelton, Austin College, Sul Ross etc or field a non-scholarship team. For me, like most of you, my attitude is if we are going to field a team I want a coach that exemplifies a POSITIVE ATTITUDE, GOES AFTER THE BEST RECRUITS IN/OUT OF STATE, KNOWS THAT WHEN THE TEAM HITS THE FIELD HE HAS AN EXCELLENT CHANCE OF WINNING...NO MATTER WHO THE OTHER TEAM IS AND IS COMPLIMENTARY TO THE PEOPLE WHO COME OUT TO SUPPORT THE TEAM.
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Son of a B%)^&!!! eulesseagle has turned into PMG.

MeanGreen61 · December 29, 2005

Son of a B%)^&!!! eulesseagle has turned into PMG.
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I give up. Green Grenade and PMG. Now add eulesseagle to the mix. user posted image

Edited December 29, 2005 by MeanGreen61

MeanMag · December 29, 2005

Meangreendork---
The last time teams were afraid of our "D" was during the Rod Rust era when Joe Green was playing. Also when Fry was coach and during parts of the Corkey Nelson era when we were ranked #1 (at times) when we played D-1AA.
Just for your comments, who, other than some of the SBC schools were afraid of our "D" during the last 8 years under "Mediocrity Ball?" (I am now using this phrase instead of "DD Ball" because that is what we have...."Mediocrity Ball" on offense and defense.)
I supported DD up to about a month ago until I "finally" realized what shape our program really is in. DD has reached the "APEX" of his career at UNT and possibly his future in college football. In the past, Coach Mitchell was a fine man and coach for NTSU and did a great job for what he had, Rust rode the recruiting coat tails of Mitchell's recurits (Joe Green...etc...and his claim to fame, prior to NTSU was recruiting Jim Plunkett for Stanford), I personally like Coach Nelson because he did more with less than any other NTSU/UNT coach we ever had.....we can go on and now we have "Mediocrity Ball" with DD. While others achieved on the football field knowing that we had an excellent chance of "BEATING" teams like Texas, Tennessee or Houston because they came up with the necessary "GAME PLANS", unfortunately, DD does not share that same philosophy. When Mr. Mediocrity explained to everyone that we have "NO" chance against teams like LSU then you are telling the world you have NO CONFIDENCE in yourself, your staff and your ability. You can read other posts by Plumm, Silver, King etc to get a "TRUE" picture where we have been, the history of the our program, the ineptitude of of our past and present coaches and administration and where we need to go and what HAS to be done to get there!!
For most of us we have seen the past......we know what we are capable of doing with the RIGHT coach and a POSITIVE coaching philosophy which we DO NOT HAVE with Mr. Mediocrity. I am NO longer satisfied by beating the old Southland Conference schools which now make up most of "Dante's Inferno" (SBC) and you should not be either!!! You should not be satisfied by having other Mid-Major programs beating us by 50+ points (and keeping the score down by playing everyone including their water boy), you should not be satisfied by being out recruited by D-1AA schools in the state of Texas and in "Area 51" (top 50 recruits in the DFW area). If you are "JUST" satisfied with having some mediocre football program that just fields a team for enjoyment then we can switch from D-1A to a conference that plays in the same league as Tarelton, Austin College, Sul Ross etc or field a non-scholarship team. For me, like most of you, my attitude is if we are going to field a team I want a coach that exemplifies a POSITIVE ATTITUDE, GOES AFTER THE BEST RECRUITS IN/OUT OF STATE, KNOWS THAT WHEN THE TEAM HITS THE FIELD HE HAS AN EXCELLENT CHANCE OF WINNING...NO MATTER WHO THE OTHER TEAM IS AND IS COMPLIMENTARY TO THE PEOPLE WHO COME OUT TO SUPPORT THE TEAM.
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I'm not going to defend Dickey, or his attitude, but I don't know when he was brought up before this post anyways. I am not amused with Dickey's performance this past season. And until this past season, I thought things were looking up. I too, would like to see a more positive attitude from the coaching office.

I think you are wrong about the scary defense. Yes, the Rod Rust era was scary. But don't tell me 3 years ago we had a mediocre D... Did you see them? Did you see the rankings? Did you see them against Texas? Sun Belt teams aren't the only ones our defense manhandled that year. And they had an attitude about them that was anything but mediocre. Maybe Deloach knows coaching.

As for recruiting- I think it may be a bit easier to convince an allstar HS player to come here to play D when compared to an allstar QB. We have had successs at the RB position in recent years, yes, but I think defensive propects might give us more of a look, and I think that maybe other schools hit the offensive stars up recruiting a little hard. I'm not saying we shouldn't persue them, I want them to come here too.

Please save the PMG rants for another thread. We know your position, and it grows tiresome to try to have a football related discussion talking personell when every post has something to do with firing Dickey.

As another poster said offense sells tickets and defense wins championships- then goes on to say that selling tickets is what matters. As a fan, I find this unacceptable and I'm amazed you believe this. I could care less about selling tickets, I want to see a winner. I'd much rather see big hits, interceptions and dogpiles as a fan than a high scoring offense. I don't care about how many other people are at the game with me. It's more fun, but what do you want to see more a sold out crowd at an 0-11 team or a 11-0 team that you care about in front of 100 people?

You sound like Tom Hicks when he recently stated that he couldn't figure out why Ranger fans were unhappy, because the team was actually making money now. WHO CARES ABOUT YOUR POCKET BOOK? I want to see a winner.

GreenFlag · December 30, 2005

As another poster said offense sells tickets and defense wins championships- then goes on to say that selling tickets is what matters. As a fan, I find this unacceptable and I'm amazed you believe this. I could care less about selling tickets, I want to see a winner. I'd much rather see big hits, interceptions and dogpiles as a fan than a high scoring offense. I don't care about how many other people are at the game with me. It's more fun, but what do you want to see more a sold out crowd at an 0-11 team or a 11-0 team that you care about in front of 100 people?

Huh? Care to rethink that paragraph? Selling tickets and winning are not mutually exclusive BTW.

Sorry, quote tags not working.

MDTGGI · December 30, 2005

Heres my 2 cents.

I believe that winning puts butts in the seats. Look at the last 4 years for example. When I got here as a freshman in 2002 the attendance down right pathetic (with the exeption when we won the championship). But over the last couple years I noticed that more and more people are staring to come to the games. I was very pleased to see the numbers that were showing up at the beganing of this year. Never had I seen that big of a crowd at the start of a season. Both the Alum and the Students were showing, it was great!

The reason why, we were winning. The offense was not putting up 50+ a game (yes there are exeptions, baylor and ect.) but our D was kicking the crap out of anyone that dared step foot on our field and we were winning.

So I would agree with MeanMag that the D is what I would say truley matters. I would also say that if teams did not fear us in the 2002 year, they certainly RESPECTED us. If I remember correctly at one time in that year our D was ranked number 10 or 11 overall in the nation. (When I read that online I was pumped!) When your D is strong enough to dominate the other team, this gives your offense more and more chances to do something with the ball. And eventually the O will score. In the words of my father "even a blind squirel will find a nut every now and then."

If evey game we played was high scoring personally I would be bored out of miny mind. I and not a fan of the 45-42 games. (which is why i am not a big fan of the arena ball) Unless it was after 8 OTs! But a game where it is 7-3 and every play counts because you dont know if your O will be able to score so its all up to the D. Man that is on the edge of your seat heaven to me.

Sorry about the long post, just my 2 cents.

Edited December 30, 2005 by MDTGGI

PlummMeanGreen · December 30, 2005

REVISED AND UPDATED @ 8:54 AM, Friday, December 30, 2005:

...................................................................................................

Unrelated to the subject at hand, but one fellow NT Ex of ours said something to me a day or 2 back that really hit me sorta' funny and I paraphrase him: "Coach Fry in our national televised ESPN game vs Troy back in October said more positives about UNT and Mean Green football in a mere few minutes than Darrell Dickey has in 8 years.

...................................................................................................

Yet any NCAA D1-A football program that has gone to 4 bowl games in a row should be averaging well over 20-25,000 plus per home game, but we still have hovered around a bit over 15K plus per game (another low expectation) and that after 4 bowl appearances, too. School officials at most NCAA D1-A outposts would call such attendance after 4 bowl games in a row a definite red flag, but at UNT, we reward it and tell our fans how great life is (in the SBC/Bottom 10).

I rant/I rave because Mean Green football has been a passion of mine since September of 1973 and I just don't like what I (and others) are presently seeing with some in our NT Athletic Dept. who (for whatever reason) think they are giving us something so gol' darn unique and special; that is, that they are giving us something we've never seen or had? Let me clear my throat now and give you all my best Norm Hitzhges giggle!

Granted, we didn't have bowl games in the Fry era because the Missouri Valley Conference didn't have a bowl tie-in. If the old Mo Valley had had bowl tie-ins you would have then had several Mean Green football teams even before Fry came along, ie, those NT football teams from the Mean Joe Greene era who probably would have gone bowling a few times. Why not, the Joe Greene era Mean Green football teams had about 10 future NFL'ers with (I think) about 3 or 4 from that group who even went in the NFL's 1'st round. So what hath Dickey produced that others could have produced (but probably more grandiose and at a Top 25 level) under similar circumstances such as our being in the worst football conference in NCAA D1-A?

No one can blame DD for our being in the SBC, but we can ask questions as to "why shouldn't the leader of the SBC (whoever that is in any year) expereince Top 25 rankings even as what many on this board have (in previous years) called the "lowly" Mid-American Conference, ie, the MAC. If this latest rant/rave is making a few of you most sensitive types a bit tense, you might want to stop reading this post right now. Won't hurt my feelings at all, actually, but you will be taken out of the will! {:>)

NORTH TEXAS during the Fry era chose to travel on a much tougher football road than the (bowl-less) Missouri Valley Conference was ever going to give us, and a MVC that was on the eve of also losing Memphis, Louisville and Cincinatti who would be replaced by schools that make it look even like the present low profiles of most of our SBC schools.

Since hindsight is 20/20, we can argue till DD grows hair or the cows come home how smart or not so smart it was for us to leave the MVC in the first case, but I assure you that 99.9% of our constituency in Mean Green Country at that time saw it as a golden opportunity for UNT to move up to the next level football-wise. I recall some newspapers applauded the move because back then in Texas, it was still varsity football that was the engine that drove your school's train). Our first year out of the MVC seemed to impress others, as UT AD and head football coach Darrell K. Royal partnered with Hayden Fry and the 2 several scheduled games for the first time in history.

Back then, we also felt that the premier of the new Super Pit would help us overcome anything we would lose by dropping out of an ever-changing MVC as well, but in college basketball at that time many will recall there were fewer invited to the Big Dance, ie, the NCAA Tounament and major indenpendents with no prior basketball successes, prior good reputations among the Eastern influenced media and with NT's annually weak varsity basketball schedule were the main reasons we were not invited after a few 20 plus win seasons.

UNT didn't play the toughest basketball schedules during the Super Pit's first few years of operation, either, AND.............. if truth be known (and I always try to make sure the truth as I know and interpret it from what I saw in 30 plus years of all this Mean Green business). Certainly, there are other interrpretations of the truth from others that will differ from mine (& thank God we don't all agree on everything which makes this board most useful/sometimes even fun), but I think many from my era (and before) might agree that I am more on with my perceptions and descriptions of Mean Green athletics than not. On the other side of the coin, I am usually on board with most of their observations of how they see the truth of the way things really are in Mean Green Country, too.

Yet as far as UNT playing a major independent football schedule beginning in 1974; anyway, the results of all that gave UNT enough regional and national acclaim as to where we had a head football coach that even a SWC school and Big 10 schools coveted (and then with one of those hiring Fry away from us). Nothing wrong with that, either, because one who creates such attention that an SWC school and a Big 10 school were noticing usually means such a coach was doing some fairly significant things at the position of head football coach of which people (outside Denton) recognized and respected both regionally and nationally.

As much as we may not want to admit it, we are just not getting similar respect at any geographical level (regional or national) unless Rice has put DD on their interview list which I am going to highly doubt))............and worse, not even any recognition or respect on a national stage after 4 bowl appearnces. Many college football fans and media types outside the Denton Record/Chronicle, Denton and DFW would have to ask the question of "what is wrong with that Mean Green picture" as no one seems to be giving UNT any respect. (Ya' think SBC membership, losing 3 out of 4 bowl games and the last 2 of those to CUSA's 4'th place team might have had something to do with that).

For sure, I don't like "ranting" on this theme (once again) but I am trying to see what 4 bowl games has gotten Darrell Dickey in the area of job interviews at higher profile NCAA D1-A schools? For whatever reason, it still has us hovering a bit over 15K per home game and that (alone) should be about as much a Red Flag as some would need in Denton, Texas, America.

If even more truth (as I see it) be known, I really do think after our Cincy' bowl win (helped out by a whopping 500 Cincy fans that hardly inspired the Bearcats to play inspired football that night AND...............those 6 interceptions by their QB); anyway, after that win over a non-Top 25 school, I really believed back then that Dickey and his gang really thought they had bought their ticket out of Denton and onto some higher profile opportunty, but as we all know that was hardly the case. So one might assume that others outside Denton and the GoMeanGreen.com Nation have also done their own research and read what we has turned some of us around on all this by merely reading what our NT Football Media Guides shows us in 3 inch headlines.

<>*<> In closing on this latest rant/rave: What still really bothers me were the NCAA D1-AA schools (most of whom are in the SBC now) we lost to during most of those bowl years should have been a pretty big hint to NT leaders of today that we were not aways the best team who could have hosted that bowl game? IMHO, those 1-AA losses is the part in all this that not too many on this forum (especially those on the NT Board of Regents chaired by UNT alum Bobby Ray); anyway, no one seems to ever want to acknowledge those losses to 1-AA schools in all of these discussions of the Darrell Dickey "bowl era" at UNT.

Did any of you (2 seasons ago ) kinda' feel like we were a counterfeit $20 bill when FAU came to Fouts and handed it to us (and our knowing even on that Game Day that that school would be an SBC member the next year); yet we still represented the SBC in the Big Easy that same football season? How did you assimilate or even digest that scenario in light of our being a bowl team in spite of our loss to a future SBC school who was still 1-AA? Has DD had a few footballs bounced his way? I think he has in a most uncanny sort of way, but I also think there are few now who will buy anything else he delivers to us at the same prior levels as he has in previous years any longer. To quote eullesseagle, I am afraid DD has (in deed) already had his APEX as the head football coach at our alma mater.

One more perceived truth that I fear is this: Just how is all this going to play come next August when seasaon ticket sales begin? We don't have the luxury of some of our NT Athletic Dept. staffers who one could hardly classify as public relation dynamos helping in that area, either. Too many Mean Green fans now seem to be onto all this because of what we've pay to see the last 5 years at a low level of expectation and now we even drama in the stands now aimed toward long time Mean Green fans.

But after the **SMU/UNT game next Fall which I don't think will draw anymore than the TCU/UNT game at Fouts did (23K?) a few years ago; anyway, if SMU hands it to us like many of you feel they will the 2006 football season could go south very quickly. With that in mind, I hope NT officials will even now (& privately, of course) start their list of possible new head football coach candidates anticipating a scenario that could be for our school's football team an 0 & 5, 0 & 6 or even an 0 & 7 W/L start in 2006. Also, just in case Mean Green fans post SMU game (and highly possible loss) just start showing campus leaders the silent treatment at Fouts Field; and I think we'd all agree that empty seats at Fouts Field can tend to be very silent.

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** I have the entire 1990 UNT/SMU game at Fouts Field on DVD that will show some of you young gun alums that SMU probably had no more than 500 of their fans who showed for that game (and that includes the SMU band).

SMU may bring more fans next Fall (not much more/ask TCU about that) as they are now the Metroplex football program with momentum and we are not which already has created a groundswell of even more who have become doubters concerning the direction of our alma mater's football program under present conditions. This will be a tough sell this summer.

>>>> We could all only hope that those NT officials who keep rubber stampin' all this on an annual basis are on the 2006 NT football season tickets sales committee so they can see (firsthand) the fruits of their labor.<<<<

But I still say our SMU game at Fouts does not draw anymore than our TCU game (23K?) did a few years ago (and we had a better football team than we will at the beginning of the 2006 season). Of course, during that Denton-based game, the Horned Froggers outplayed (and outcoached) us in that matchup, too. Whoops, Silver Eagle, are we allowed to say those dreaded words, uh, "out-coached" anymore at "OUR" alma mater? }:>}

Edited December 30, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen