Will not support DD & RF any further....

[UNTFan23]

Why don't you just show up to games with a grocery bag on your head? You can put "DD supporter" on the front.  That would be hilarious and a great way to still show up and support the team whilst taking a shot at DD.  Hell he may even insult you in post game interviews! Think of the notoriety you'd get!! 

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There had been talk in my group of one or more of us "paper bagging" the last game.

Edited December 28, 2005 by UNTFan23

[UNTLifer]

The best thing you can do to express change is needed is to email the BOR and RV.  They won't miss 2, 100, or even a 1000 fans, and know why, but they will read your email and then know why.

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That's a great idea except the only email address you'll find is RV's.

[DeepGreen]

Why don't you just show up to games with a grocery bag on your head? You can put "DD supporter" on the front.  That would be hilarious and a great way to still show up and support the team whilst taking a shot at DD.  Hell he may even insult you in post game interviews! Think of the notoriety you'd get!! 

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Are you sure the CSA? stormtroopers won't eject you from the game??? FirefightnRick, you care to answer this?

[meangreendork]

Whether or not you don't support the coaches is NO excuse to not show at the games. Show your support for the team, show your support for the program, show your support for the other fans.

Hey, I might not agree with all of Bush's policies, but I do still strongly believe in our country. It sure beats where I came from, anyways.

[PlummMeanGreen]

First, I'd like to comment on the post that started this thread.  Rick (GGII) didn't simply say this time that he wouldn't post anymore but that he would not attend any more games.  He's been fed up before, as we all have, but I think that this time his boycott has reached a fever pitch.  I believe that he means it.  And this is from a fan who I'd guess has attended more North Texas games than any other, possibly in our history.  There were years that GG attended every North Texas within a day's drive.

Regarding the thread as it has developed; both recruiting and coaching have diminished but which came first?  I think that the coaching did.  The very first pre-game interview that I ever heard from Coach Dickey (first LSU debacle) told me that we had no chance of winning; that we were there to fulfill a contract.  I agree with Euless Eagle that I want a coach who will not accept defeat.  If you don't believe that you can win, I'd say you're right.  As to being close in the fourth quarter and maybe pulling out a win, how'd that work for you this year?  I'd also like to see a coach that teaches multiple formations so that if one doesn't work, another might.  (Please note that this was Celina's path to the state championship this past year).  I'd like to see any adjustments necessary, offensively and defensively throughout the game.  To me, football is a little like a chess game; you must always be alert defensively and think two or three plays ahead offensively.  It seems that we are often outcoached (but I think that someone else has already made that point).

I also hate this stealth recruiting.  I don't buy that we have to be secretive about who we have offered.  If we lose one or more, at least other recruits and fans will know that we are in there trying.  This year I did not see a single top recruit in Dallas, Fort Worth or San Antonio who were even considering North Texas.  Our best recruiting these days seems to come from the Houston area and Oklahoma.  I'm afraid that Houston could take a hit because Coach Bell is leaving but Coach Malone may have the contacts to keep that going.  We also have gotten a sprinkling of good players from Central Texas.  Even though we seldom get a Top 100 recruit, some of our recruits have been (or are) potentially outstanding.  But they need to be coached to reach that full potential.

Personally, I'm giving it one more year.  If I don't see great change then, like Rick, I'll sit it out until there's a coaching change.

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Of all that has been posted on the subject of what we can most likely expect with a football future with Darrell Dickey in charge; anyway, if the NT Board of Regents and their chairman (or any one of their associates who might even mention this post by GrayEagleOne to any of our Regents), still of all that has been posted, I really wish it would be this one aforementioned post by GrayEagleOne that will (hopefully) be read by each and every one of our NT officials thoughout the UNT System because it really expresses the scope and the seriousness of the situation for many of us as we find ourselves annually in at the bottom rung of the NCAA D1-A ladder (SBC/Bottom 10) and his posts really represents just how many in our UNT community feel about all this with Dickey Ball (and have for more than just one football season, too).

Low goals and low expectations for Mean Green football and those who will be satisfied with only getting back to that level (if DD is still around to even do that) is just not what the majority of us have had in mind thru the years and decades for our alma mater's football progarm and one that is at the NCAA D1-A level.

For those who would accept the same ol' things or even less under DD, for the life of me I have to be curious and ask the one word question...................why?

If there are 119 NCAA D1-A schools (and there are exactly that), are any of our Mean Green elect going to continue to be happy with a DD-led football program that will have us (in most years) being ranked somewhere in the #90 to # 119 mix of NCAA D1-A? FWIW, and for those of you who say its offense that sells football season tickedts, has our NT offense in 8 years under Darrell Dickey ever been ranked any higher than #80 or so among the other 119 schools?

Edited December 29, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[greensteve]

PMG-

I think its WINNING that sells football, not offense. Just an observation, those teams with great offenses usually win...or am I out on limb with that thought. Regardless if our offense is poor and defense is good, or the other way around...it will ultimatly be winning that will be the only thing that propels this HISTORICALLY WEAK football program to the next level.

I beleive that I am not in the minority who thinks that winning games by more than 21 points is any more benficial than winning them by less than 7...I dont care as long as we win. I dont care if we run the football 40 times a game as long as we win, nor would I care if we threw the ball 40 times a game.

Not sure who made the statement that offense sells football, but I don t think they put alot of thought into it.

[Stan R]

I made that comment because I've sat with people who sat through wins at fouts who were bored out of their minds at fouts even after the win. The games may have even been 10-3 type wins. And I guarantee you what MOST people go to games to see is a pass-happy offense. I'm not talking about people who live and breathe college football and are die hard fans. We're not talking about bringing in the "true college football fans". We're talking about bringing in your average joe sports fan or even non-sports fans. Those are the butts in seats we need to bring in to fouts. Those bandwagon fans like to see pass happy offenses.

It is more entertaining. That will keep them coming back. This is an entertainment business, not a "winnning brings fans" business. In my opinion, the real reason for the consistent attendance increases has been two things, yes winning is crucial but the tailgating has been just as important.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I made that comment because I've sat with people who sat through wins at fouts who were bored out of their minds at fouts even after the win.  The games may have even been 10-3 type wins.  And I guarantee you what MOST people go to games to see is a pass-happy offense.  I'm not talking about people who live and breathe college football and are die hard fans.  We're not talking about bringing in the "true college football fans".  We're talking about bringing in your average joe sports fan or even non-sports fans.  Those are the butts in seats we need to bring in to fouts.  Those bandwagon fans like to see pass happy offenses. 

It is more entertaining.  That will keep them coming back. This is an entertainment business, not a "winnning brings fans" business.  In my opinion, the real reason for the consistent attendance increases has been two things, yes winning is crucial but the tailgating has been just as important.

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Amen, Stan R...

Edited December 30, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[NT91]

I agree with Stan R.  This will still be our university long after DD is gone.

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I hope sooner than later on DD!!!

Edited December 31, 2005 by NT91

[PlummMeanGreen]

That's a great idea except the only email address you'll find is RV's.

←

Just another sign that our school seems to be taking on the personalities of its leadership with much of that leadership only wanting to hear from those who they line up and from that group who will say what they want to hear.

Remember that farce of a a survey from our Chancellor? Of of almost 2,000 who are registered on this board I'd bet we would have represented a fairly nice bloc of "like-minded" NT Exes who emailed back to Lee Jackson and his survey many things in the "comments" section that were very, very, very pro-athletics. Maybe I read the results of that survey incorrectly, but athletics didn't seem to pan out too well from all that I saw in the chancellor's survey.

So perhaps a case of LJ not even wanting to get most of the "pro athletics" emails but rather he delegating those to some of his assistants who probably did some very effective filtering of all the ones from all those crazy NT athletic "fan"atics). }:>)

Again, I don't like all this elitism that now seems to be coming from some of our NT campus leaders most of whom don't even offer their personal email addresses for the purpose of communicating with those they sure want to give a helluva' bunch of money to NORTH TEXAS.

Still amazing how even some of that group (NT Regents) are probably only involved with our/their school because they were appointed by the Governor of Texas. Some of you have mentioned how even the key NT regent (the chairman) who many of us cannot for the life of us ever remember ever seeing at Mean Green football games for most of the last 4 decades. In fact, many of us never knew who he was until after his appointment by the Governor. And now he is suddenly the main cog in the wheel, ie, the primary decision-maker at UNT and (obviously) the one responsible for force-feeding what many NT Exes and Mean Green fans no longer want in our annual Fall football diet. }:>(

Edited December 31, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[shaft]

Wow, an entire off-season of the sky is falling threads.

What do you really plain to acheive by whining on this board or emailing regents.

DD is going to be the coach next season, so deal with it.

This program wasn't going anywhere before DD got here, he's they guy with the four conference titles. Sorry if he's not the guy to make that next step, but I don't know who is and no one on this board does either. If DD sucks it up another year you know RV is going to tell him to hit the road, so why bitch about?

[NT80]

Wow, an entire off-season of the sky is falling threads. 

What do you really plain to acheive by whining on this board or emailing regents.

DD is going to be the coach next season, so deal with it.

This program wasn't going anywhere before DD got here, he's they guy with the four conference titles.  Sorry if he's not the guy to make that next step, but I don't know who is and no one on this board does either.  If DD sucks it up another year you know RV is going to tell him to hit the road, so why bitch about?

←

Sure, just lay back and enjoy it. Thanks Darrell.

I bet all 2-9 program's fans are happier than we are.

I bet all programs with 7-38 OOC records don't get complaints either. What? There are no others??

[PlummMeanGreen]

Sorry, a glitch here.

Edited December 31, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[PlummMeanGreen]

Wow, an entire off-season of the sky is falling threads. 

What do you really plain to acheive by whining on this board or emailing regents.

DD is going to be the coach next season, so deal with it.

This program wasn't going anywhere before DD got here, he's they guy with the four conference titles.  Sorry if he's not the guy to make that next step, but I don't know who is and no one on this board does either.  If DD sucks it up another year you know RV is going to tell him to hit the road, so why bitch about?

←

Well for starters, you don't start to look for a head football coach with someone who was an offensive coordinator for "one" freakin' year at a school (that many of you feel will now beat us in September) and that same coach who was a journeyman assistant college football coach before he had that one big year as an offensive coordinator. Again, this was a bloodless hiring coup at UNT in the first place (with no UNT people given any say on any of this that was considered); and it was a coup that took place because of 2 Kansas State U alums, ie, DD's dad and Craig Helwig. I think most of us will be more than satisfied when we finally lose our "pre-Bill Snyder" KSU connection.

I've heard many names mentioned who could succeed Darrell Dickey. You know, if UTEP can step up to the plate and hire a Mike Price type of situation, then I think UNT can most likely more than do the same.

Start with Rick Neuheisel who has been completely exonerated of all that he was alleged to have done (which wasn't even related to his coaching of football as I recall). We hired Johnny Jones who came into Denton with a past that was also cleared by the NCAA, so this would not be a first for UNT to step out on faith in doing such with someone who has been (unfairly) tainted with allegatioins of wrong-doing.

Rick Neuheisel? Well, seems one day we replaced another failed bid of a college football job in Denton (Rod Rust) with a guy named Hayden Fry. Boy, I cannot believe the level of thinking that all these years of low expectation and disguised successes of the Dickey Ball era even has some of our alum's modes of thinking in terms of low expectation. Is all this sort of a trade off? You know, DD doesn't feel he can win OOC games while some (not all) NT Exes don't think we can do much better than Dickey? DD is still under .500 after 7 years for a reason and maybe that is one prime reason that 4 bowl trips has yet to impress anyone else except those who think beating SBC schools is their idea of a college football Utopian existence.

If DD is such a hot potato item with a hardy handful in Denton, why isn't he anywhere else in college football? Many on this board (and beyond) will still defer to the fact that 4 bowl trips have yet to get him even "ONE" higher profile NCAA D1-A job interview.

A $64,000 Question: Will UNT one day also put a coach who will have been under .500 his whole tenure as Mean Green head football coach in our NT Athletic Hall of Fame? If so, shouldn't their also be asterisks placed besides each bowl year that indicates which future SBC schools (who were all 1-AA at the time) beat UNT during most of those bowl years? DD gets his 3'rd try next Fall to get his first win over Florida Atlantic University. My guess is that even if Schnellenberger doesn't have equal talen, he will still outcoach our staff to get them their 3'rd win in a row over the Mean Green.

What is being posted now, shaft, is to insure that our NT leaders know that some out here don't have their heads up their arses on all this and know what DD Ball has done for UNT in the eyes of the national media (like can you can say...........ZILCH?; and we sorta' want our NT Board of Regents to know that not everyone thinks this "shooting fish in the barrell" SBC/Bottom 10 we're a member of is hardly the barometer of future champions and Top 25 rankings.

Our Board of Regents (and I think we most always mean its Chairman, Mr. Bobby Ray, in these threads) may all be in for a big surprise when all this really starts to get heated concerning Darrell Dickey. I really think it has the potential of getting pretty ugly if NT leadership wants to play Big Man on Campus and challenge the masses on all this. They may need to be reminded and reminded quite frequently that there are many more of us than them. As they say, its a numbers game and numbers at UNT do not need to be decreased because of poor athletic management and offering our fans something they've realy seen enough of and don't want to much longer.

Still..............in over 40 years of following college football fairly close, I've never (for the life of me) seen or heard of any head football coach's job such as the one we're getting and are right smack dab in the middle of with DD's 7 years (going on 8) at UNT. I think its a lead pipe cinch that any school in the NCAA will never pattern what they are doing in their athletic future using NT as their model. FWIW, they'd be pretty damn crazy to even think about doing such.

Edited December 31, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[good_ken]

I've heard many names mentioned who could succeed Darrell Dickey. Start with Rick Neuheisel who has been completely exonerated of all that he was supposed to have done (which wasn't even relate to his coaching of football as I recall).

The quoted statement makes me question the validity and sanity in the rest of the post. Neuheisel would not come to Denton. And why would UNT want him? Does anyone remember that Colorado had problems before Barnett? And under who's watchful eye did they start; you guessed it: Nueheisel.

I will take 2-9 football before I welcome a cheater to town.

To quote Dr Pohl from the Spring of '01 (concernign hiring an honest AD)," I worked at UNLV, where the UNLV had set-up there west coast offices; and I don't want that kind of situation here." (paraphrasing)

[PlummMeanGreen]

The quoted statement makes me question the validity and sanity in the rest of the post.  Neuheisel would not come to Denton.  And why would UNT want him?  Does anyone remember that Colorado had problems before Barnett?  And under who's watchful eye did they start; you guessed it: Nueheisel.

I will take 2-9 football before I welcome a cheater to town.

To quote Dr Pohl from the Spring of '01 (concernign hiring an honest AD)," I worked at UNLV, where the UNLV had set-up there west coast offices; and I don't want that kind of situation here." (paraphrasing)

←

JUST RESPONDING:

So Mike Price was a gamble at UTEP? He hardly came in as a choir or alter boy if you will recall. I will say part of what you said in your post that you said you will take you'll come pretty close to getting in the Fall of 2006.

The info on Neuheisel was given to me by one on this board who has done his homework on the coach as far as his name having been cleared. Do you have some new info on Neuheisel you want to share?

good_ken, might you have also said (back in the day and I don't know what era your from, although I'm guessing the DD era because of your low expection'ish-type comment of UNT "NEVER" being able to get a high profile name football coach like Neuheisel in the future); nevetheless, might you have also said the same thing right before we signed Hayden Fry to a contract at NT?

How far all this has fallen with all the low expectation (and some of our best fans not really expecting much because at UNT don't we always have "our backs against the wall"-- an attitude that has been generated and persevered from within our campus is (probably) the saddest part of this whole scenario IMHO.

Also, all this low expectation from some of our best fans is even sadder than our present situation with a few (un-named) NT employees (who just may not be at the right school at the right time which is also preventing and delaying our eventual advancement at UNT and forever more getting out of all this low expectation philosphy.

Edited January 5, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[greensteve]

For the love of everything sweet and holy...get off the "Neuheisel-talk". It's just plain ridiculous...If Neuheisel is so frickin great and such an oppt waiting to be interviewed remind me why he hasn't been approached by anyone...We cant afford him and I could think of about 10 other guys I'd rather have than RN. We have enough issues, new stadium/old stadium, lack of funds, no donor, etc. then to add this guy. Sure he can recruit, he can coach, and in his day wasnt a bad qb...and for all you Charger fans, I think he is still in their stat book for completing something like 80-81% percent of his passes in a single game.

True he would be a great spark to the program, thats his MO...he bring immediate energy and success...but the question would be, is NT ready to pay a coach of this caliber $500,000-$750,000 per year. You may say that he wont get that much, but if he is interested in coaching, with his past successes, he would get no less. There's baggage their, too.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

If the need arises for a new coach in 2007, Neuheusel could be an interesting possibility. I don't think that he would come here but you never know. No one thought that Hayden Fry would come here either.

The only way that I could see it happening is that Neuheusel has such a burning desire to return to coaching that he'd accept virtually anything to prove a point....that he can still do the job and that he will stay clean. Now he wouldn't work for peanuts (as Charlie Weatherbie did) but he might come for $4-500,000 unless he's making that much today, which I seriously doubt.

I know that he's a little beyond our budget but he also brings something to the table besides the ability to coach and recruit...a 'name'. And, a name brings donors out of the woodwork. There could even be a Mattres Mac type who might agree to supplement his salary to get him to say, a Gary Patterson level. There are just so many unknowns that it's hard to predict what might happen. Another thing that a 'name' produces is publicity. The media, even national media, would suddenly be interested. Lastly, a name sells tickets. Those items alone could well make it worthwhile to shell out the big bucks for someone of that caliber.

I'd say that the pearl just might be worth the dive if we are truly interested in advancing the program.

[KingDL1]

If the need arises for a new coach in 2007, Neuheusel could be an interesting possibility.  I don't think that he would come here but you never know.  No one thought that Hayden Fry would come here either.

The only way that I could see it happening is that Neuheusel has such a burning desire to return to coaching that he'd accept virtually anything to prove a point....that he can still do the job and that he will stay clean.  Now he wouldn't work for peanuts (as Charlie Weatherbie did) but he might come for $4-500,000 unless he's making that much today, which I seriously doubt. 

I know that he's a little beyond our budget but he also brings something to the table besides the ability to coach and recruit...a 'name'.  And, a name brings donors out of the woodwork.  There could even be a Mattres Mac type who might agree to supplement his salary to get him to say, a Gary Patterson level.  There are just so many unknowns that it's hard to predict what might happen.  Another thing that a 'name' produces is publicity.  The media, even national media, would suddenly be interested.  Lastly, a name sells tickets.  Those items alone could well make it worthwhile to shell out the big bucks for someone of that caliber.

I'd say that the pearl just might be worth the dive if we are truly interested in advancing the program.

←

GrayEagleOne

I like how you think, now if you could change the 2007 to 2006 I would be ecstatic.

[PlummMeanGreen]

If the need arises for a new coach in 2007, Neuheusel could be an interesting possibility.  I don't think that he would come here but you never know.  No one thought that Hayden Fry would come here either.

The only way that I could see it happening is that Neuheusel has such a burning desire to return to coaching that he'd accept virtually anything to prove a point....that he can still do the job and that he will stay clean.  Now he wouldn't work for peanuts (as Charlie Weatherbie did) but he might come for $4-500,000 unless he's making that much today, which I seriously doubt. 

I know that he's a little beyond our budget but he also brings something to the table besides the ability to coach and recruit...a 'name'.  And, a name brings donors out of the woodwork.  There could even be a Mattres Mac type who might agree to supplement his salary to get him to say, a Gary Patterson level.  There are just so many unknowns that it's hard to predict what might happen.  Another thing that a 'name' produces is publicity.  The media, even national media, would suddenly be interested.  Lastly, a name sells tickets.  Those items alone could well make it worthwhile to shell out the big bucks for someone of that caliber.

I'd say that the pearl just might be worth the dive if we are truly interested in advancing the program.

←

Good post, GrayEagleOne....

I think there will be others available besides a Rick Neuhiesel or a Gary Barnett (who I would admit might even be a gamble since best I know the NCAA has not exxonerated him of anything just yet). I only used Rick Neuheisels name as just one example of a coach with a known name commodity.

Anyway, I think there would be more "name ID" type coaches available in the future for any non BCS school to consider hiring who feels that person would hurdle the kind of obstacles that boggs lesser known coaches down for years, and to catapult Mean Green football to a Top 25 level much sooner than later. Again, I defer to Mike Price of UTEP who came into El Paso with a dark cloud over his head, yet Price's name ID alone gave the Miners instant credibility as well as pre-season Top 25 rankings (and UTEP is a basketball school we're talking about here).

As far as Rick Nueheisel, his name was mostly used as an example in this part of this thread and this "what if" discussion.

GrayEagleOne hit on some themes of a "name ID" coach that you who are only used to what we've been getting at UNT the last 2 1/2 decades might have to see firsthand to believe.

UNT as of now (because I think we have way too many ego situations on our campus at the moment) has missed on what I believe could have been a golden opportunity to hire Hayden Fry as even a part-time (a la Gene Stallings) fundraising consultant because (after all) he was both an AD and head football coach here in the DFW Metroplex for close to 2 decades and that man knows more of the rich and famous in DFW and Texas than the last 5 NT head football coaches did added together. NOTE: For you who saw Hayden Fry in action at Fouts a few months ago in our nationally televised ESPN game with Troy got a fairly quick glimpse of that man's salesmanship abilities.

UNT just needs to keep all of its options open and have a contingency plan in place in case we do need to make changes in the future for any positions of a high profile nature that may open up at UNT

[SilverEagle]

If the need arises for a new coach in 2007, Neuheusel could be an interesting possibility.  I don't think that he would come here but you never know.  No one thought that Hayden Fry would come here either.

The only way that I could see it happening is that Neuheusel has such a burning desire to return to coaching that he'd accept virtually anything to prove a point....that he can still do the job and that he will stay clean.  Now he wouldn't work for peanuts (as Charlie Weatherbie did) but he might come for $4-500,000 unless he's making that much today, which I seriously doubt. 

I know that he's a little beyond our budget but he also brings something to the table besides the ability to coach and recruit...a 'name'.  And, a name brings donors out of the woodwork.  There could even be a Mattres Mac type who might agree to supplement his salary to get him to say, a Gary Patterson level.  There are just so many unknowns that it's hard to predict what might happen.  Another thing that a 'name' produces is publicity.  The media, even national media, would suddenly be interested.  Lastly, a name sells tickets.  Those items alone could well make it worthwhile to shell out the big bucks for someone of that caliber.

I'd say that the pearl just might be worth the dive if we are truly interested in advancing the program.

←

Hmmmm, interesting. My question would be, could we afford his salary AND the salaries of the assistants that he wanted to bring in?