NT - a top 25 program?

Hunter Green · December 23, 2005

I think Plumm posted this question a while back, but I think it's worth repeating during this bowl season. TCU has positioned itself quit nicely, and while not in a BCS conference, has managed to garner national and LOCAL respect and has become a force to be reconed with every year and is a legit Top 25 team.

So, why can we not do the same thing? Yes, I know the Sun Belt is the dregs of college football, but so what? Do we just use that as an excuse to NOT recruit blue chip talent? Can't blame it on facilities, or lack thereof, anymore. Fouts, you say? BS! We're stuck with it, so deal with it and focus on the positivies this school has to offer. North Texas should not have to take a backseat to anyone! If the students and local fan base would get off their dead asses and attend games, that would be a shot in the arm this program needs. While attendance continues to improve for football, have you been to a basketball game lately? Embarrasing and pathetic attendance. There are many fingers to be pointed for sure, but the biggest (and should be MIDDLE finger) should be pointed squarely at Administration who continually hamstring the AD and ignore and alienate the passionate alumni who become not so passionate anymore. Or some of those on the "Negative Board" who "on principle" will not support the AD by buying tickets and have nothing better to do except criticize RV and DD at every turn. (Maybe they are members of the DNC!)

I say that it is time for administrators, coaches, and fans to stop making excuses and lets just 'git er done!'

Go ahead and fire away, but most importantly,

have a Merry Christmas. GO MEAN GREEN. Beat the hell outta Houston!

eeally · December 23, 2005

Love your post and have a Happy Merry Holiday Christmas. I agree 100% and what is this Git'R Done! Man that is so redneck speak. I live in Austin in a construction zone and if I see any more stickers that say Git'R Done I am going to have a brain anarism.

By the way here in Austin it is a consensous that UT will be Nat champion. I sure hope not because man they are annoying!

Merry X-mas!!!!

Eagle1855 · December 23, 2005

Well for what its worth, I know several people on this board, including myself, expect to be a top 25 team in the future. And I am willing to do everything I can as an alumn to see it happen. Id like to be a top25 in basketball as well.

I think the biggest thing we as fans/alumnis can do to help reach this goal is to support athletics financially(MGC, season tix, etc) and physically(showing up to games)

We MUST have solid basketball programs and support to ever get in C-USA (IMO), which will help us out tremendously in football as well

Edited December 23, 2005 by Eagle1855

mad dog · December 23, 2005

I really appreciate that sentiment, and I share your desire to be the best, bar none, in college football. I, too, amd tired of the being in the dregs of D-1A football and I'm eager to move up to bigger and better challenges.

That said, I think there's a lot of immediacy being demanded... not just here, but in every college. Everyone is tired of "excuses" and we here are certainly (and justifiably) tired of even one season at the bottom of our conference. I can really admire that kind of standard, we all need to understand that expecting development RIGHT NOW is really just setting oneself up for disappointment.

Although the season is short, the big picture of college football is extremely long term. The great class that Dickey brought in to kick off that string of conference championships took us to another level. Their winning streak changed the perception of the football team's in a lot of people's eyes, and won quite a few new fans (including this one) to the program. But perhaps most importantly, their winning streak built the new AC, which stands now as the milestone of how far we've come. I promise you, Woody Wilson doesn't come here if the AC isn't there. Trent Stanley doesn't sign here. We've already seen dividends from the first year it has been available to really sell to recruits (last year at this time, it was still being finished), and I can't wait to see how big a deal it might turn out to be when our high school class is announced.

But, before you know it, between four years to build the AC and four years to realize a full team of AC recruiting, you've already eaten up the better part of a decade. This is truly a long, long, long process. Demanding the team be that much better next year would kinda be like expecting a stadium to be built in six months. You might like it to happen, but you're probably going to be disappointed.

I want this to be a truly competative team. One that doesn't flinch when given a road game to Austin, expecting to hang a legitimate shot at winning. I want that kind of team. But I have to understand that, at best, raising our team from where it is now to where we want it to be is bound to be a long term process. We might not like it, but given the confines of where we are right now, a winning season next year is a reasonable goal. Expecting a national championship next year, or the year after that, or the year after that, or the year after that, isn't. I truly think we can be a one loss team next year. That's certainly possible, and I would hope for that, but not expect it. Not yet.

As Cerebus has said, the athletics program needs us to put our money where our mouth is in terms of program support. Money more than anything. This board does allow us to vent, but never forget that venting is like rocking in a rocking chair. It might give you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere.

Season's Greetings to you all.

Edited December 23, 2005 by illuvius32

UNTLifer · December 23, 2005

I really appreciate that sentiment, and I share your desire to be the best, bar none, in college football. I, too, amd tired of the being in the dregs of D-1A football and I'm eager to move up to bigger and better challenges.
That said, I think there's a lot of immediacy being demanded... not just here, but in every college. Everyone is tired of "excuses" and we here are certainly (and justifiably) tired of even one season at the bottom of our conference. I can really admire that kind of standard, we all need to understand that expecting development RIGHT NOW is really just setting oneself up for disappointment.
Although the season is short, the big picture of college football is extremely long term. The great class that Dickey brought in to kick off that string of conference championships took us to another level. Their winning streak changed the perception of the football team's in a lot of people's eyes, and won quite a few new fans (including this one) to the program. But perhaps most importantly, their winning streak built the new AC, which stands now as the milestone of how far we've come. I promise you, Woody Wilson doesn't come here if the AC isn't there. Trent Stanley doesn't sign here. We've already seen dividends from the first year it has been available to really sell to recruits (last year at this time, it was still being finished), and I can't wait to see how big a deal it might turn out to be when our high school class is announced.
But, before you know it, between four years to build the AC and four years to realize a full team of AC recruiting, you've already eaten up the better part of a decade. This is truly a long, long, long process. Demanding the team be that much better next year would kinda be like expecting a stadium to be built in six months. You might like it to happen, but you're probably going to be disappointed.
I want this to be a truly competative team. One that doesn't flinch when given a road game to Austin, expecting to hang a legitimate shot at winning. I want that kind of team. But I have to understand that, at best, raising our team from where it is now to where we want it to be is bound to be a long term process. We might not like it, but given the confines of where we are right now, a winning season next year is a reasonable goal. Expecting a national championship next year, or the year after that, or the year after that, or the year after that, isn't. I truly think we can be a one loss team next year. That's certainly possible, and I would hope for that, but not expect it. Not yet.
As Cerebus has said, the athletics program needs us to put our money where our mouth is in terms of program support. Money more than anything. This board does allow us to vent, but never forget that venting is like rocking in a rocking chair. It might be enjoyable and feel good, but, like worrying, venting is like a rocking chair: it might give you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere.
Season's Greetings to you all.
←

I bet the fans at Central Florida are thankful that they didn't take the long road to success.

untbowler · December 23, 2005

I really appreciate that sentiment, and I share your desire to be the best, bar none, in college football. I, too, amd tired of the being in the dregs of D-1A football and I'm eager to move up to bigger and better challenges.
That said, I think there's a lot of immediacy being demanded... not just here, but in every college. Everyone is tired of "excuses" and we here are certainly (and justifiably) tired of even one season at the bottom of our conference. I can really admire that kind of standard, we all need to understand that expecting development RIGHT NOW is really just setting oneself up for disappointment.
Although the season is short, the big picture of college football is extremely long term. The great class that Dickey brought in to kick off that string of conference championships took us to another level. Their winning streak changed the perception of the football team's in a lot of people's eyes, and won quite a few new fans (including this one) to the program. But perhaps most importantly, their winning streak built the new AC, which stands now as the milestone of how far we've come. I promise you, Woody Wilson doesn't come here if the AC isn't there. Trent Stanley doesn't sign here. We've already seen dividends from the first year it has been available to really sell to recruits (last year at this time, it was still being finished), and I can't wait to see how big a deal it might turn out to be when our high school class is announced.
But, before you know it, between four years to build the AC and four years to realize a full team of AC recruiting, you've already eaten up the better part of a decade. This is truly a long, long, long process. Demanding the team be that much better next year would kinda be like expecting a stadium to be built in six months. You might like it to happen, but you're probably going to be disappointed.
I want this to be a truly competative team. One that doesn't flinch when given a road game to Austin, expecting to hang a legitimate shot at winning. I want that kind of team. But I have to understand that, at best, raising our team from where it is now to where we want it to be is bound to be a long term process. We might not like it, but given the confines of where we are right now, a winning season next year is a reasonable goal. Expecting a national championship next year, or the year after that, or the year after that, or the year after that, isn't. I truly think we can be a one loss team next year. That's certainly possible, and I would hope for that, but not expect it. Not yet.
As Cerebus has said, the athletics program needs us to put our money where our mouth is in terms of program support. Money more than anything. This board does allow us to vent, but never forget that venting is like rocking in a rocking chair. It might give you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere.
Season's Greetings to you all.
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I guess 8 years is not enough????

mad dog · December 23, 2005

And UCF isn't competing for national championships. You can show great individual improvement in one year, but the past four years have proven that one good year (or four) doesn't count for much in the eyes of fans. Building a proud program is done over the course of decades, not years or months.

And UCF also went 8-4 this year. Is that really the example you want to use?

KingDL1 · December 23, 2005

I guess 8 years is not enough????
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With this kind of attitude more like 50 years is the expectation.

mad dog · December 23, 2005

To build a dynasty, it might be closer to fifty years than one or two.

Look, I'm not talking about one year improvements. And if you are, then how on earth do you reconcile that with playing down the four straight conference championships? One year improvements are nice, but the feeling I'm getting from the board is that we aren't really ever satisfied with one year improvements.

UNTLifer · December 23, 2005

But, before you know it, between four years to build the AC and four years to realize a full team of AC recruiting, you've already eaten up the better part of a decade. This is truly a long, long, long process. Demanding the team be that much better next year would kinda be like expecting a stadium to be built in six months. You might like it to happen, but you're probably going to be disappointed.

I didn't agree with this statement. Especially the part about demanding the team be that much better next year.

SilverEagle · December 23, 2005

To build a dynasty, it might be closer to fifty years than one or two.
←

At the risk of sounding nit-pickey, Miami built a dynasty in a very short period of time. In the mid-to-late-70's their BOR almost voted to end football. Look how things have turned out for them.

Around 1970 Boise St. was little more than a JUCO. From that humble point, they eventually joined D-1 in the mid-90's around the same time that we re-joined D-1.

South Florida has only recently been D-1, yet they are now in the Big East. BTW, like us, they also compete for the fan's dollar in a very competitive sports area.

I think that these are just a few examples of why a lot of people are frustrated with our slow progress.

Now, once upon a time we were in a position like South Florida and/or FAU. We had a dynamic coach (like FAU) who was a great promoter. We had some big time wins and we were gaining lots of media attention.

And then the fans (and IMHO the administration) blew it.

untbowler · December 23, 2005

To build a dynasty, it might be closer to fifty years than one or two.
Look, I'm not talking about one year improvements. And if you are, then how on earth do you reconcile that with playing down the four straight conference championships? One year improvements are nice, but the feeling I'm getting from the board is that we aren't really ever satisfied with one year improvements.
←

I do not think anyone wants a dynasty, we want a consistent Top 40 team and that is not to much to ask.

Look at USF they were 1 win away from a BCS Bowl in less than 10 years of existence, Marshall moved to 1-A after we did and they have been wildly successful, UCF had a couple down years but they are on their way up, UTEP is now a consistent contender for Top 25, Boise State is not much different than we are and they are consistently in Top 25 range.

50 years is a lame duck excuse.

mad dog · December 23, 2005

Boise did not have a perception to overcome. Their anonymity played to their advantage. In a sense, they were unlabeled, so it was a bit easier than peeling off our label of "apathetic commuter school." But, granted, they also had a TERRIFFIC coach to lead them there. Same case with Miami. Great, great coach.

I don't really buy USF in the Big East as being a real legitimate example. That makes about as much sense as Baylor in the Big-12, and the Big East is not that much better than Conference USA, if indeed it is at all. Were we on the east coast, I think we'd have a good a shot as anyone of ending up there.

So, basically, unless you luck out and get that once in a generation coach to raise a lowly program to the national prominence, you do it the way we've done it. Slowly and gradually, overcoming perception, which is actually one of the hardest things in existence to do.

mad dog · December 23, 2005

I do not think anyone wants a dynasty, we want a consistent Top 40 team and that is not to much to ask.
←

Tomato/Tomahto. Maybe wrong word to use, but that's what I meant. A team that is consistently in the top 40 year in and year out.

Marshall? You mean 8-4, 6-6, 4-7 Marshall? Not sure I want that kind of success.

And to reiterate for those unwilling to read the WHOLE sentence... I said CLOSER to fifty than ONE OR TWO years.

gangrene · December 23, 2005

I do not think anyone wants a dynasty, we want a consistent Top 40 team and that is not to much to ask.
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I agree. I never expect to see the words dynasty and North Texas football in the same sentence...talk about high expectations! We're NOT Miami (private university) and it's not 1970 or whenever they started to turn their program around. We've got very stiff competition for recruiting, fans and media coverage. As long as UT and A&M are around, we'll always be an afterthought.

I simply want a football program that can be competitive with Top 25 programs, win half of our OOC games and dominate a conference that even SMU could win every year. I would like a program that Big XII opponents wouldn't mark down as a "win" before the season even started. I expect to get progressively better each year and to occassionally crack the Top 25, but I don't expect us to EVER play for the national championship.

At our stage of D-1 football, I still don't understand why we can't do more to promote the program. And, speaking of SMU, I think SMU probably still has fans from their "Mustang Mania" campaign. As I recall, that campaign consisted of a lot of cheap freebies, like stickers, buttons, posters and buy 1/get 1 ticket offers. They got an enormous amount of PR coverage out of it and they had a youth program that included more freebies for children. They were filling Texas Stadium and the Cotton Bowl on a regular basis...but they also a good product on the field that could compete with top-notch programs (even if the players were bought and paid for). I saw a good attempt to promote the UNT football program (with the press coverage of PC ad JT) this year from a media perspective, but there is so much more that could be done. We NEED to fill up Fouts on a regular basis.

UNTLifer · December 23, 2005

I agree. I never expect to see the words dynasty and North Texas football in the same sentence...talk about high expectations! We're NOT Miami (private university) and it's not 1970 or whenever they started to turn their program around. We've got very stiff competition for recruiting, fans and media coverage. As long as UT and A&M are around, we'll always be an afterthought.
I simply want a football program that can be competitive with Top 25 programs, win half of our OOC games and dominate a conference that even SMU could win every year. I would like a program that Big XII opponents wouldn't mark down as a "win" before the season even started. I expect to get progressively better each year and to occassionally crack the Top 25, but I don't expect us to EVER play for the national championship.
At our stage of D-1 football, I still don't understand why we can't do more to promote the program. And, speaking of SMU, I think SMU probably still has fans from their "Mustang Mania" campaign. As I recall, that campaign consisted of a lot of cheap freebies, like stickers, buttons, posters and buy 1/get 1 ticket offers. They got an enormous amount of PR coverage out of it and they had a youth program that included more freebies for children. They were filling Texas Stadium and the Cotton Bowl on a regular basis...but they also a good product on the field that could compete with top-notch programs (even if the players were bought and paid for). I saw a good attempt to promote the UNT football program (with the press coverage of PC ad JT) this year from a media perspective, but there is so much more that could be done. We NEED to fill up Fouts on a regular basis.
←

I agree with your last paragraph, but the first two reflect the attitude that has afflicted this program for years.

gangrene · December 23, 2005

I agree with your last paragraph, but the first two reflect the attitude that has afflicted this program for years.
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I would love to be in the position to demand a run at the national championship every year but it just ain't gonna happen. Texas has waited 36 looong years to be back in the position they're in right now.

Since 1936 (the first year polling began with the AP poll), there have been a total of 30 schools that can lay claim to being crowned a national champion. And many of those years the national title was shared between two schools.

Those 30 teams are:

Notre Dame, USC, Oklahoma, Alabama, Miami, Ohio State, Nebraska, Minnesota, Michigan, Texas, Tennessee, Michigan State, Florida State, Penn State, LSU, Pittsburgh, Army, Syracuse, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Washington, BYU, Clemson, UCLA, Maryland, Texas A & M and TCU.

Aside from the teams listed above, only 13 other teams have finished ranked in the top 5 since 1970. Those teams are:

Houston, Arkansas, SMU, Boston College, Air Force, West Virginia, Arizona State, North Carolina, Arizona, Virginia Tech, Wisconsin, Oregon and Utah.

The way the system is set up now, it's practically impossible for a school in a non-BCS conference to play in the national championship game.

Does anyone on this forum truly believe we'd be playing for a national championship this year, had we gone undefeated? Even if we had blown out LSU, we'd be lucky to be ranked in the top 5.

The reality is that national respect doesn't come quickly and easily in NCAA D-1 football. It costs a lot of money and requires a LOT of commitment by all parties involved with the program to ensure continued success and progress from one year to the next.

We are at a very critical crossroads for this program and we can take one of two directions. We can either learn from this season's failures, regroup, rebuild and re-dominate the SBC next year. Or, we can take the attitude that "it was fun while it lasted" and continue to make lame excuses for why we sucked and everybody else is in a better position than we are (like "those Florida schools").

I fail to see how my expectations for an 11-2 or 10-3 record (that's winning 1/2 of the OOC games, 8-0 in SBC and winning/losing the NO Bowl) are reflective of " the attitude that has afflicted this program for years".

Edited December 23, 2005 by gangrene

NT91 · December 24, 2005

I had someone tell me that NT is a "apathetic commuter school" just the other day at work. I informed him of all the new dorms that have been added since the early 1990's.

SilverEagle · December 24, 2005

I had someone tell me that NT is a "apathetic commuter school" just the other day at work. I informed him of all the new dorms that have been added since the early 1990's.
←

Ok, you answered the "commuter school" portion of the comment. What did you say to him/her about the "apathetic" part?

PlummMeanGreen · December 24, 2005

I really appreciate that sentiment, and I share your desire to be the best, bar none, in college football. I, too, amd tired of the being in the dregs of D-1A football and I'm eager to move up to bigger and better challenges.
That said, I think there's a lot of immediacy being demanded... not just here, but in every college. Everyone is tired of "excuses" and we here are certainly (and justifiably) tired of even one season at the bottom of our conference. I can really admire that kind of standard, we all need to understand that expecting development RIGHT NOW is really just setting oneself up for disappointment.
Although the season is short, the big picture of college football is extremely long term. The great class that Dickey brought in to kick off that string of conference championships took us to another level. Their winning streak changed the perception of the football team's in a lot of people's eyes, and won quite a few new fans (including this one) to the program. But perhaps most importantly, their winning streak built the new AC, which stands now as the milestone of how far we've come. I promise you, Woody Wilson doesn't come here if the AC isn't there. Trent Stanley doesn't sign here. We've already seen dividends from the first year it has been available to really sell to recruits (last year at this time, it was still being finished), and I can't wait to see how big a deal it might turn out to be when our high school class is announced.
But, before you know it, between four years to build the AC and four years to realize a full team of AC recruiting, you've already eaten up the better part of a decade. This is truly a long, long, long process. Demanding the team be that much better next year would kinda be like expecting a stadium to be built in six months. You might like it to happen, but you're probably going to be disappointed.
I want this to be a truly competative team. One that doesn't flinch when given a road game to Austin, expecting to hang a legitimate shot at winning. I want that kind of team. But I have to understand that, at best, raising our team from where it is now to where we want it to be is bound to be a long term process. We might not like it, but given the confines of where we are right now, a winning season next year is a reasonable goal. Expecting a national championship next year, or the year after that, or the year after that, or the year after that, isn't. I truly think we can be a one loss team next year. That's certainly possible, and I would hope for that, but not expect it. Not yet.
As Cerebus has said, the athletics program needs us to put our money where our mouth is in terms of program support. Money more than anything. This board does allow us to vent, but never forget that venting is like rocking in a rocking chair. It might give you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere.
Season's Greetings to you all.
←

Yet it shouldn't take a decade in Denton of 2 steps forward/3 steps back to reach Top 25. Just look how quickly UTEP did it. Look how they got in some pre-season Top 25 polls overnight after they hired Coach Price. I'd run naked drinking margaritas in a baby bottle out on Fort Worth's Loop 820 if we even made a pre-season Top 25 poll. But we are talking about UTEP the World-Beater here? UNT still has a most impressive differential of wins versus losses against UTEP in our all time football series with those Miners. This is do-able folks, but to get to the moon, you have to aim for the moon.

And money where our mouths are?!?!? Thanks for the reminder, iluvius32, as I need to mail a check to the MG Club this next week. (I knew I had forgotten something here in the busy Chrismas season).

GOD BLESS YOU ALL REAL GOOD, FELLOW NT EXES & MEAN GREEN FANS & ALSO...........

A MERRY CHRISTMAS, TOO!

Edited December 24, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

KingDL1 · December 24, 2005

I'd run naked drinking margaritas in a baby bottle out on Fort Worth's Loop 820 if we even made a pre-season Top 25 poll.
←

Jim, I am not sure that is a good incentive to be in the preseason top 25.

But, Hey you may make the News and get UNT some extra publicity, so I say go for it!

I mean Steve ate crow!

Edited December 24, 2005 by KingDL1

Arkstfan · December 24, 2005

Today's system prevents a national title except under the most bizarre of circumstances.

Miami's first never would have happened under the modern system because Nebraska would have been playing Texas that year.

While in New Orleans had a chance to visit with a knowledgeable observer of the league. His opinion was that the football is poised to really come forward. He noted that four of the top five spots in the standings were occupied by coaches with four seasons or less under their belt and that money is being spent on facilities and expectations of what should be delivered were rising.

His opinion was that administrative expectations had more to do with success than anything other than hiring quality coaches.

meangreendork · December 25, 2005

I really, truly want to see NT ranked in the Top25. We've seen a lot of schools come up from nowhere and really make names for themselves. Sure, none of them are Top25, but from year to year, they seem to improve.

UCF went from 0-12 to 8-5. Sure they lost the bowl game, but they went blow-for-blow with Nevada, and UCF's team is almost all underclassmen.

UTEP looked good, though not against Toledo (who's also raised eyebrows in the last few years).

Memphis is getting attention- in fact, DeAngelo Williams is getting plenty of attention, especially with his going to Detroit this spring.

I really think that the coaches have a lot to do with all of this, especially in the case of UTEP and UCF. The coaches are very inventive, and what's more is that they really push their players.