Not a cheerleader in sight

[Guest e-bone]

whats with the "dump the cheerleaders" battle cry? Hasnt that squad won a couple national championships? I happen to be fond of the cheerleaders

Good grief, its not like people decide whether or not to go to games based on whether there are cheerleaders or dancers in attendance. give me a break.

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Competition is great, but the cheerleaders primary duty is to cheer(hence the name cheer-leaders). It is pretty easy for anyone who has gone to any basketball games to be frustrated with the cheerleaders and recognize that the dancers are there every game with a full team.

[greenjoe]

Break given.

What good does it do to have the best cheerleaders in the nation if they don't show up ?

[UNTSIG]

You are by far the most negative person I've seen on this board. You are the one who turned this thread into an argument, not me. I asked people to thank the dancers if they get a chance, and you had to start an argument because that is what you love to do. I don't love to argue, but when it comes to things like cheerleaders not showing up to basketball games and idiots try to defend them, then yeah, I'll argue with those idiots. I shouldn't but it pisses me off when basketball receives so little attention from students, alumni and especially that AD, whose job it is to get those peoples' attention. As for the student volunteer. Hey, you probably have as much free time during the semester as I do, why don't you volunteer? I'm taking all 4000 level courses, work and am part of a student organization. Hell, I'm not even sure that you show up to the games and support the teams. Those yahoos in the AD have a job that they are paid to do and there is no sign that they care about basketball. It is obvious to anyone who goes to a football game and sees that they put effort into that with tailgating and all of that, and then goes to a basketball game and sees no effort was put into improving the game day experience at all.

You have gone to a few games this year, right? Otherwise you would be arguing about something that you have nothing to base your opinion on. In other words, you would be arguing because you love to argue.

First of all with your idiot comment, I hope that you were not talking to me. I did volunteer for the 5 years that I was at North Texas. I worked with and in the athletic department every single year. I worked every single football game and 2 seasons of basketball, AT EVERY GAME. I was also the president of my student organization, had two majors and worked 25-30 hours a week. Has anyone ever heard me say that before on this board? No! You want to know why? Because I don't feel the need to let everyone know that I volunteered and worked for my school. Unlike some of you who think that everytime you go to a game there should be a post about it. Don't try to change the way that this started E-Bone. I did not originally reply to you about the cheerleaders not showing up. As a matter of fact, I said that it is ok to criticize the cheerleaders. What upset me with you is your whole "the AD doesn't care about basketball" comments. You don't know that. You go and sit in the stands for a couple of games and you think that you know all about what is going on in the athletic department. That is what drives me crazy. You make such a far stretch from the cheerleaders do not show up to the AD doesn't care, I feel like that someone should say something on this board. I am not negative about UNT on here. Anyone that knows me would tell you that I am one of the most positive UNT fans that you will find BUT what I am negative about is "fans" that love to complain, throw out accusations and all along do nothing to help the program. So please...in your 4000 level classes, in your student organization and at work, invite people to the games and have them show up!

[Coach]

You honestly believe that the AD staff has explored every avenue possible to improve basketball attendance? I'm not saying this as an insult or slam, but I haven't seen any evidence of this, and I am certainly not alone (see the countless threads). It is a serious question. And, if you answer happens to be yes, then that speaks volumes about the resources that our AD has to work with, and is embarrassing for a school that considers itself a legitimate D1 athletic department.

[Michael Scott]

You honestly believe that the AD staff has explored every avenue possible to improve basketball attendance? 

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Even if we had the stadium full and the best atmosphere ever we should never think like this - I think the atmosphere you want is impossible without fans who care though - and no amount of free trials, strobe lights, or posters will do that.

If this team wins, and wins often, you'll see the same type of innovations you saw in football that were only possible/ cost feasible with people in place. We don't do enough, but I will reserve my complaining until the team is good...and people still aren't showing up.

I don't think EBone is the only busy student at the university, and a team not good enough to win a tournament game or two is not going to pack the pit, even if they give away Ipods and the cure for cancer. Look at the NBA - most in game productions are similar for the most part - but the team record can make or break the whole show.

[UNTSIG]

i just find it odd that people are saying that the promotions/marketing department has a lot to do with packing the football stadium...when if you read these same people during football season...they are talking about how much the promotions and marketing suck! if they truly believe that the lack of marketing/promotions is what is keeping people away from The Pit, then I have some Enron stock to sell them.

[UNTSportsGuy]

Yes there was a male cheerleader there, I saw him underneath before the game started. Would you want to be the ONE person standing out there represting the cheerleaders?

[greenjoe]

I understand what you're saying. And I understand this young man could be shy about being the only person that showed up. I think this makes my case for disbanding the cheerleaders and just making due with 12 very pretty and talented dancers. That do show up.

[UNTSportsGuy]

Could they just split up, put half on each end?

[greenjoe]

ding, ding,ding, ding.

A gentleman after my own heart.

[CO Green]

RV has nothing to do with the hiring or firing of the cheerleading coach. That all falls under Paul Batchelder. As far as me being the former coach, nope. Wish I could say that was true. And the "do you cheer for the coach or for North Texas", my love for North Texas is what kept me on the squad as long as i could. Please hold Marketing and Promotions accountable for their mistake!

[UNTSIG]

ok so let me get this straught CO.....hold Paul accountable for hiring a cheerleading coach but don't hold the cheerleaders themselves responsible for anything at all? huh now i see the problem....

[Guest e-bone]

Who has come on here and thought there should be a post about every time they go to a game?

You're right, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes in the AD and I do only know what I see when I go to games. And that is what pisses me off, is that I go to the games and I see NOTHING to make me think that anyone in the AD gives a crap about basketball. Youth leagues play at half time, woo. A couple of other kids race to put on jerseys and make layups, awesome. Three cheerleaders chatting at the end of the court and looking bored when they have to come out onto the court during half time, exciting. What exactly am I supposed to think when that is all that I see when I go to games other than the game itself? What would any student that goes to his/her first game supposed to think when there is nothing going on other than the basketball game? (Again, I used the cheerleaders as an example of how the AD doesn't seem to give a crap. I've said as such before but you seem to be pretty selective on what you see me write in order to try to put me down as best you can.) And you know what? I'm not the only one who notices these things! You are the only person defending the athletic department and seem to be thinking that they are doing a great job in their promotions and handling of game day atmosphere! The Pit Crew's promotions and tailgating for the TCU game last year was the most effort I had every seen put into a North Texas basketball game! When a few students can do more to promote and enhance game day experience than the athletic department, what are we supposed to think? That the AD is doing all they can? Hell no!

BTW, I ask people to go to games all the time. Some go, but only when I get on them so much that they go so I will shut up. I've yet to see a single person I've went to a game with go to a game on their own after I first introduced them to NT basketball. If they aren't big basketball fans or supporters of NT athletics, they see no reason to keep going to games! There is nothing at all to keep them coming back!

Edited December 22, 2005 by e-bone

[MeanGreenThing]

For once I actually agree with ebone

What is this world coming to?

[untgirl04]

Yes there was a male cheerleader there, I saw him underneath before the game started. Would you want to be the ONE person standing out there represting the cheerleaders?

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Well, cheerleader's aren't supposed to be shy. If they don't have the b@lls to go out there and cheer when no one else does, they're not really that good a cheerleader. If I were that guy (impossible since I'm a girl), I would have gone and talked to the Dancers about what I could do to work with them. But that's just me.

Take a proactive approach for once instead of being reactive. I understand crappy coaches and being to the point you just can't take it anymore. And I don't have a problem having a cheerleading team for competitions and football games (although they're worthless at the games and have no idea what's going on - you don't try to get the crowd to stand up and scream when we're on offense). I still think we should move to Dancers only at the basketball games (what many pro and college teams already do) and have an additional group (kinda like the Mavs Men) who come out and do other things.

I do like the kids racing around the court putting on jerseys - it's kinda funny. But other promotions, such as during the tournament last year when we had Mavs Man and Scrappy chasing down the cheerleaders with silly string, and surprising groups of fans with string and then running around crazy, that was funny. I know it's expensive, but similiar promotions could be used that would still make the games more entertaining.

Just my .02.

[greenjoe]

Tell me CO, What awful things did the new coach ask the cheerleaders to do ?

Did he/she want you at the games ?

Want you there on time ?

What was so unreasonable that you and others felt you had to quit ?

Edited December 22, 2005 by greenjoe

[UNT_92_Fan]

Joe...I understand your frustration with this whole ordeal...believe me I feel the same...but CO Green is the opposite of the ones you wanna question...He has doen more than a;; the other put together...he was one fo the few consistantly there last year and he worked with the Pit Crew on our TCU promotion....

CO GREEN is good people....he maybe can answer youre questions but taking a negative approach to his involvement isn't worth the time typing it....

[UNTLifer]

RV has nothing to do with the hiring or firing of the cheerleading coach.  That all falls under Paul Batchelder.  As far as me being the former coach, nope.  Wish I could say that was true.  And the "do you cheer for the coach or for North Texas", my love for North Texas is what kept me on the squad as long as i could.  Please hold Marketing and Promotions accountable for their mistake!

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So, the cheerleadering coach answers to Paul Batchelder, and Paul is the Associate AD for Marketing, and RV is the AD. In this scenario, isn't RV ultimately responsible? Shouldn't RV hold Batchelder responsible?

[Michael Scott]

So, the cheerleadering coach answers to Paul Batchelder, and Paul is the Associate AD for Marketing, and RV is the AD.  In this scenario, isn't RV ultimately responsible?  Shouldn't RV hold Batchelder responsible?

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Why is this so hard for most people to figure out - anyone take logic? This goes back to RV just like everything else we like and don't like. RV has been great for us, but he's not some untouchable diety without flaws.

BTW, if UNTSIG is as close to these people as claimed, of course he'll stick up for them, just like he sticks up for the faculty and other buddies in his other threads. He sounds like a really important guy driving the future of NT all the way from the O.C. . JK SIG, I don't know you, but I am entertained by the level of self importance in a few of your posts and your tendency to name drop that everyone else on this board seems to usually fight.

Bottom line is there's really not that more to do without people. Has anyone ever been at a game where there's 2 students in the stands and someone says hey "You two want to shoot for the pizza since no one else is here?"

They still play Pump Up the Jam and all the other crappy songs at Mavs games (at least the ones I recently attended), but the product on the court is good enough where no one cares. If you want cooler stuff given away or done at games, then we need better sponsorship contracts and agreements, more fans, and more donations/money to fund them. To do that we need to go to the tournament a time or two and get some buzz around this thing. People go to football games because people are there now - but the winning had to happen first to get the bigger fan base to give it a try. The only exception to this is scheduling big name opponents.

I almost wish the department would let you all implement your supposed catch alls so you can watch them fail as well - we need a product worth seeing first - then the bells and whistles need to get tacked on. This is basic product marketing.

And finally, we still need song girls! Sweet, clean song girls....

[greenjoe]

I've got no problem with CO Green or anyone. However, I get tired of the (lack of ) cheerleaders with all their lame excuses as to why they can't do their jobs.

Surely these people knew there were basketball games during the week as well as weekends when the tried out for the squad.

I find it hard to believe that the Dancers have an easier schedule than ALL the cheerleaders. However, with rare exception, the Dancers are out in full force. Spotting a cheerleader at a basketball game has become like "Where's Waldo."

Disband the cheerleaders.

DANCE, DANCE, DANCE

[UNTSIG]

JK SIG, I don't know you, but I am entertained by the level of self importance in a few of your posts and your tendency to name drop that everyone else on this board seems to usually fight.

Michael- I am not even going to go down that road with you. I am posting on an internet chat board....how cool can I really be? Anyway guys, now that I can see some of your feelings have been hurt...let me just say that all I am trying to do is bring a different perspective to some things. You guys are so quick to find easy answers to complex problems that it amazes me. When the basketball attendance is bad, then you say that the AD doesn't care and marketing is not doing it's job. When football attendance is bad then you say that the AD doesn't care and marketing is not doing it's job. But as of late, even some of you have suprised me. Now you are saying that in football, marketing does a good job but that it doesn't care about basketball. I am confused. Arguments of convience don't work for me. I just wish we could all think a little bit deeper than a puddle of water.

[MeanGreenBuzz]

To get away from the personal and back to the topic. Leave promotions out of this and go to marketing. I've been volunteering for promotions the last couple weeks and they have nothing to do with the cheerleaders other than giving them shirts to throw out at the designated time. They have noticed no cheerleaders and had no idea why they stopped coming. The only thing we could figure out was that they all went home for Christmas and none came back for the games (though the dancers always have a squad at the games). I understand now that their is trouble brewing with the coach; I just hope there is someone out there that can give all of us here a better understanding of what it is thats going on.

[Michael Scott]

Michael- I am not even going to go down that road with you.  I am posting on an internet chat board....how cool can I really be?  Anyway guys, now that I can see some of your feelings have been hurt...let me just say that all I am trying to do is bring a different perspective to some things.  You guys are so quick to find easy answers to complex problems that it amazes me.  When the basketball attendance is bad, then you say that the AD doesn't care and marketing is not doing it's job.  When football attendance is bad then you say that the AD doesn't care and marketing is not doing it's job.  But as of late, even some of you have suprised me.  Now you are saying that in football, marketing does a good job but that it doesn't care about basketball.  I am confused.  Arguments of convience don't work for me.  I just wish we could all think a little bit deeper than a puddle of water.

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You're the coolest We all are different cuts of the same dweeb cloth.

I agree with most of what you say - we've PMed on this before - and I think the arguments that always contradict on marketing, promotions, tickets, etc. are usually off but people on the board are finally learning which items each department within the overall AD brings about. I think you have done a good job of bringing your experience to the board, but I think at times you get frustrated by the people who don't know the structure of the department or the history so you either go into names or get angry - which is understandable, but not constructive. Don't playa hate - educate. Let people know that the department is or is not the train wreck they imagine, but understand that the disconnect is big enough that people are going to be skeptical and/or hostile.

I think the concerns of everyone on this board are very valid and any good organization would listen to them, but I think the presentation of these ideas to them needs work. Angry ranting coupled with sucking up in person won't help anything - and I would venture that they know who most of you are if they read this. UNTSIG, I've asked you this before, but do J & P take anything said on this board seriously or do they laugh it off like I would if I was them? I think real, legitimate support with the promise of work and effort would be well received - but you never know based on what some of you have expereinced in other volunteer roles.

I think all sides are at fault here and you are right it is a cop out on all sides to blame one party or another for our problems. Fans, AD, and team can all do more, but I still say that, much like football, no meaningful corner will be turned until we hit the post season. We might even get 4 cheerleaders for March Madness!

As for the person who brought up the SBC tournament (UNTgirl), I think the staff finally had a budget to work with where they could afford things like Mavs Man and other perks. Better atmosphere, but still no people.....although the first game where NT lost had decent attendance and I think the next games would have only grown had we won. But we'll never know...

[Eagle1855]

I love this thread. quite an entertaining read, carry on

[eulesseagle]

Personally, I like the dancers.....much prettier, more entertaining, out on the floor just as much as the cheerleaders and gets my old heart pumpin'.

The only difference is that:

1. No male dancers (that's good).

2. No dangerous flips.

3. More dancers.

4. More costumes.

5. Excellent routines.