FR*Telegram blurb Central Florida to get new

OldTimer · December 16, 2005

The school's trustees approved a $51 million plan for a 45,000 seat football stadium that could open for the 2007 season. The Golden Knights went from 0-1 last season to 8-4 and will play Nevada on December 24 in the Hawaii Bowl.

PlummMeanGreen · December 16, 2005

The school's trustees approved a $51 million plan for a 45,000 seat football stadium that could open for the 2007 season. The Golden Knights went from 0-1 last season to 8-4 and will play Nevada on December 24 in the Hawaii Bowl.
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IMHO, UNT will most likely not see a new football stadium under present leadership, present conditions and other realities that are just now beginning to rear their ugly head to many.

I hope that I am 100% wrong, but with many who I know who will now be curbing their $upport (or not giving anything at all next year under present leadership), I just don't see a Big Donor coming forward once they check out the athletic climate and (apparent) low athletic expectation as they (I'm sure) will find in their own personal research.

Low Expectation? NT coach's (across the board) career W/L records with multi-years of employment on our campus would be something that most might notice immediately if they looked at our media guides. All this most unfortunate since most NORTH TEXAS fans and alums who have seen better times against better opponents think we really deserve much more than we're getting.

I think every bit of this could change almost overnight if UNT were to make some key changes (& not just in athletics, either); also, when UNT re-dedicates itself to our prior philosophy to be much more competitive on a higher plane (OOC?) in football than we have of late (and even during 4 bowl seasons with us not even being able to smell any semblance of a Top 25 ranking. You deserve--I deserve--WE all deserve better and we will in due time get what we want; its just WHEN we get all this is the question that (hopefully) some NT leaders and board of regents are concerning themselves with now.

I really wish we would see the day that Denton Record/Chronicle feature article or sports-writers would dare to write about such things every once in a while, because there are many more readers with similar dire concerns for this athletic program some of us have listed than just a handful of NT athletic officials who seem to want to control what the DRC writes and what the DRC thinks; also, to control with some who are not on the DRC staff as to what they think, write or post about on such forums as GoMeanGreen.com. FWIW, didn't Adolph Hitler have a similar media agenda of what could be printed or said about him and his own leadership?

GBT!

Edited December 16, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

Cerebus · December 16, 2005

FWIW, didn't Adolph Hitler have a similar media agenda of what could be printed or said about him and his own leadership?
GBT!
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That may be the most insane thing I have ever read on this board.

I am going to have to invoke Godwin's Law:

Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi analogies) is an adage in Internet culture that was originated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states that:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
Although the law does not specifically mention it, there is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.

Eagle1855 · December 16, 2005

I am going to have to invoke Godwin's Law:
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Good call.

Ive also grown bored of the "we have seen better times against better opponents" arguments. Well no sh*t. Almost anyone with a 2-9 campaign could say that. Hayden Fry is gone, he isnt coming back.

We arent getting out of the Sun belt on football alone anyways, so be glad our BBall teams seem to be picking up where we are slacking in football. Womens has already knocked off 2 C-USA teams this year. I expect we will have a Big 12 win in a couple days (or at least I hope). The mens almost had one last week. It would do us good to knock off a ranked UH team at home.

Next year we need to split or OOC games at the very least. That means win BOTH home games and get back to owning the belt.

Nobody on this board will dispute that this last year sucked and was unacceptable. And I would bet very few people would have a problem booting the coaching staff if we see a repeat next year.

As far as the University is concerned, all I read is a bunch of heresay and opinions from many people on this board. Which is fine, thats what the board is for, but they shouldnt be passed off as fact. The people I know that actually do know whats going on seem to think we are headed in the right direction (sans Dickey). There is a really cool master plan for the university in place, and if/when it all comes to fruition, it will be impressive. Just takes a little time. As does going from the cellar to stellar. (i think i might coin that)

Edited December 16, 2005 by Eagle1855

PlummMeanGreen · December 16, 2005

That may be the most insane thing I have ever read on this board.
I am going to have to invoke Godwin's Law:
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Cerebus, some of your power of administration responses may equal posts you deem and so judge to be insane.

Yet your response is to be expected by many of us on this board. I don't know you and I don't need to know you, but I think you may be as tunnel-visioned with your support of NT athletic mediocrity as you think my Hitler "illustration" seems to be.

When do you start telling posters of GMG.com what they can and cannot post? Come on now, Cerebus, you are close enough to the scene up there to know that if the DRC's Brett Vito starts telling it like it really is in his writings that the NT Athletic Dept. will most subtlely make him personna non grata. Comprende?

Sorry to wake up some of you living in a Mean Green fantasy world out there, but there are problems at UNT that leadership is way up there toward to the top of the list of those problems. New stadium at UNT? Anyone out there really don't think Lee Jacskon won't try to (if he can) sway big money that could possible help jump-start a new stadium in Denton toward his UNT-Dallas pet project?

Yet, Cerebus, to me what is more insane is what we are being asked to support in Mean Green Country by people who probably won't be there much longer; at least for the betterment and advancement of NT athletics at the SBC level we better hope that is the case.

GOD BLESS TEXAS

Eagle1855 · December 16, 2005

New stadium at UNT? Anyone out there really don't think Lee Jacskon won't try to (if he can) sway big money that could possible help jump-start a new stadium in Denton toward his UNT-Dallas pet project?
GOD BLESS TEXAS
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You cant use the public funding for the dallas campus on a stadium either way.

And what basis do you have for that accusation?

Edited December 16, 2005 by Eagle1855

H-towngreen · December 16, 2005

He heard from an unknown source. (I had to throw that in there for moot)

MeanGreenEngineer · December 16, 2005

Low Expectations?

How about holding the alumni base to those same high expectations we are demanding out of leadership?

UCF can go forward with this package because thier fanbase has already raised over 12.5 million dollars in private donations.

Private Gifts: 4.5 Million

Seat/Suit Licenses: 8 Million

Cerebus · December 16, 2005

Cerebus, some of your power of administration responses may equal posts you deem and so judge to be insane.
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I am just confused by this sentence.

I don't know you and I don't need to know you, but I think you may be as tunnel-visioned with your support of NT athletic mediocrity as you think my Hitler "illustration" seems to be.
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Who the heck said I supported mediocrity? Did my post say ANYTHING about your perception of leadership? No. Do I think that using the Nazi analogy is just flat our wrong? Yes.

Unless ( LJ / DD / Other Percieved Boogey Man ) is actually marching off fans to gas chambers or planning to blitzkreig TWU, then don't use that "illustration".

When do you start telling posters of GMG.com what they can and cannot post?
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How about when people start comparing each other to someone who mass murdered 11 million people?

Come on now, Cerebus, you are close enough to the scene up there to know that if the DRC's Brett Vito starts telling it like it really is in his writings that the NT Athletic Dept. will most subtlely make him personna non grata. Comprende?
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Come on now Plumm, you have to be close enough to reality to understand that that happens any and every where. You have to understand that Tim McMahon managed to write biting articles. nderstandU-ay?

New stadium at UNT? Anyone out there really don't think Lee Jacskon won't try to (if he can) sway big money that could possible help jump-start a new stadium in Denton toward his UNT-Dallas pet project?
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I think we've already gone over the fact that we can't use the state funds we are going to build the South Dallas Campus with, to build a football stadium. I also think that anyone who comes in with a "big money" donation is going to have very, very strong opinions on where to put it. If I had 10 million I wanted to give to athletics, I wouldn't be talked out of it; If I had 10 million I wanted to give to the new campus, I wouldn't be talked into giving it to the stadium.

Yet, Cerebus, to me what is more insane is what we are being asked to support in Mean Green Country by people who probably won't be there much longer; at least for the betterment and advancement of NT athletics at the SBC level we better hope that is the case.
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No, sorry, comparing people to Hitler is more than a little insane. Please don't do it.

For the record, I am not sold on Jackson's leadership either, and I would much rather have preferred Dr. Pohl to have that position.

PlummMeanGreen · December 16, 2005

You cant use the funding for the dallas campus on a stadium either way.
And what basis do you have for that accusation?
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What basisi? How about 1 or 2 top NT Exes types telling me that that is what we could expect with Lee Jackson as the UNT chancellor? You tell me what basis you know of that such would not happen? Many of us would celebrate such a basis if you had one.

A Non-Hitler "Illustration": Yet, if "Joe Big Donor" such as a U of Houston Big Donor did years ago; that is by asking the UH chancellor at the time where his monies (how about $50 million?) could best be served on campus, do you think most chancellors would first suggest that we do need a new football stadium at our UNT-Denton campus? And that suggestion being made while our most very disappointing (which describes the feelings expressed by NT Regent Chuck Beatty weeks ago); anyway, that our disappointing UNT-Dallas project would continue its non-stop delays in getting its free-standing status)?

Do look at the entire UNT System situation at this particular time, Eagle1855, and tell me where big monies very well could be diverted to (or away from) by those on campus who are in a position of power to do such?

GOD BLESS TEXAS!

UNTFan23 · December 16, 2005

Would a comparison to GreenGrenade be fair in this case?

Also, I think it's time to hit the eject button people, cause this thread has been shot to hell and is going down in a blaze of internet glory.

Eagle1855 · December 16, 2005

You tell me what basis you know of that such would not happen? Many of us would celebrate such a basis if you had one.
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I dont have prove you wrong to ask for a basis on which you make your accusations. Im not the one throwing around conspiracy theories based on heresay.

You may be right about Jackson. I havent heard many (if any) positive things about him. I do not know him. I do not know what he stands for.

I do not believe, however that there are people in administrative positions that wish to sabotage UNT from the inside out, and are working here only to do such. Call it ignorance or naivety. I think maybe our opinions on the best way to further or univeristy differ from theirs. The guy may be a d-bag. Just have some basis for throwing around your accusations. at least use your haha

PlummMeanGreen · December 16, 2005

I guess I just don't get as tense with the place of Adolph Hitler in world history or anyone else. What they did cannot be changed. Actually, I had to study about the guy at UNT since history was my minor. Yet Hitler showed the world what happens to most dictators I suppose one might say?

Yet, many of us do have a problem with those revisionists out there who hide their heads in a hole (ostrich style) and sweep the realities of any situation under the carpet; you know, just like when someone has a difference of opinion of what they see as the progress (or lack thereof) of Mean Green football as some of us used to actually know it outside the SBC/Bottom 10? Honestly, the biggest surprise in all of this to me is how just getting back to the top of the SBC is going to be just good enough for many of you NT young gun alums, but what the hell, all some of you know are the MUTS, the UL's (both of them), FAU (with both our 2 losses to them), etc, etc, etc,

Well, you are a GMG.com administrator, so do what you need to do with this less than Polly-Anna'ish thread. I'm sure your good buddies at the NT Athleic Dept would be proud if you really showed some real power of censorship here. But the cold harsh fact remains that its still W/L records and who you play and lose to (even in bowl years) that still speaks most loudly and no poster needs to say a word on any forum for that to be noticed. Trust me when I say that it is now being noticed.

GOD BLESS THE ORIGINAL TEXAS RANGERS WHO KNEW WHEN TO KICK A$$ WITH THE ONES WHO NEEDED THEIR A$$E$ KICKED! (Sorry, even more history that just cannot be revised no matter how hard some may try).

Edited December 16, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

Cerebus · December 16, 2005

One thing I think you are missing Plumm:

It is very important that North Texas turn into a true "system".

*It is great that the engineering campus is up and running, that program really needs to take off.

*It is very important for us to create a law campus, it would actually be a benefit if it wasn't in Denton.

*It is important that we expand and strengthen the medical school.

*It is also important that we build a campus in Dallas, since we have actual help from elected representatives in that area.

Why is all that important? Because we don't want to be UT-Denton or Denton-A&M. In the not too distant future, the legislature is going to decide to save the state alot of money by following the UC lead and consolidating the public universities into a few systems. There are more and more rumblings about this every year.

I am pro-athletics as they come, but you have to realize that good intentioned people can disagree on how best to grow North Texas. I for one, would have rather seen the energy and money put into the SD campus be put into a law school first.

untgirl04 · December 16, 2005

One thing I think you are missing Plumm:
It is very important that North Texas turn into a true "system".
*It is great that the engineering campus is up and running, that program really needs to take off.
*It is very important for us to create a law campus, it would actually be a benefit if it wasn't in Denton.
*It is important that we expand and strengthen the medical school.
*It is also important that we build a campus in Dallas, since we have actual help from elected representatives in that area.
Why is all that important? Because we don't want to be UT-Denton or Denton-A&M. In the not too distant future, the legislature is going to decide to save the state alot of money by following the UC lead and consolidating the public universities into a few systems. There are more and more rumblings about this every year.
I am pro-athletics as they come, but you have to realize that good intentioned people can disagree on how best to grow North Texas. I for one, would have rather seen the energy and money put into the SD campus be put into a law school first.
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Good post. While athletics certainly brings money and notariety into the system, if our academics are not top notch, what else attracts students to the university? For the past several years, we've been ranked as one of the top "bang for your buck" colleges. We offer several unique degrees that make us an attractive location for students in emerging fields. However, we need some major traditional programs (i.e. engineering and law) to really bring our university to the forefront.

While this is not a knock on current players, we have had some grade issues in the past. If we offer a wide variety of degrees and top-notch academics, it's possible that we may land a few recruits who are very serious about their educations and are lucky enough to be blessed with exceptional physical and mental abilities. It's worked for Purdue, Notre Dame, USC, and Penn State, so why can't it work for us?

Cerebus · December 16, 2005

I guess I just don't get as tense with the place of Adolph Hitler in world history.
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I call BS. If you didn't think the name Adolph Hitler had strong negative connotations you wouldn't have used it.

The biggest surprise in all of this how just getting back to the top of the SBC is going to be just fine for most you NT young gun alums, but what the hell, all some of you know are the MUTS, the UL's (both of them), FAU (and our 2 losses to them), etc, etc, etc,
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Please quote the thread where I said winning the SBC is what I expect out of this program.

Well, you are a GMG.com administrator, so do what you need to do with this less than Polly-Anna'ish thread.
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Plumm, you have thrown up several "less than polly-anna'ish" threads and yet, I never seem to say anything about them.... hmmm... I wonder what was different in this thread, that I found objectionable... hmmmm....

FWIW, didn't Adolph Hitler have a similar media agenda of what could be printed or said about him and his own leadership?
GBT!
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I'm sure your good buddies at the NT Athleic Dept would be proud if you really showed some real power of censorship here.
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Showed some censhorship powers? HAHAHAHA. I'm sorry, I must have missed all 500 of the fire DD, fire flanigan, fire LJ, fire everyone threads... yeah... that is why I didn't delete them, I was too busy reveling in my awesome CENSORSHIP POWERS!

If you only knew what some people in adminsitration think of the people who run this board? Good Buddies?! HAHAHAHA!

PlummMeanGreen · December 16, 2005

I dont have prove you wrong to ask for a basis on which you make your accusations. Im not the one throwing around conspiracy theories based on heresay.
You may be right about Jackson. I havent heard many (if any) positive things about him. I do not know him. I do not know what he stands for.
I do not believe, however that there are people in administrative positions that wish to sabotage UNT from the inside out, and are working here only to do such. Call it ignorance or naivety. I think maybe our opinions on the best way to further or univeristy differ from theirs. The guy may be a d-bag. Just have some basis for throwing around your accusations. at least use your haha
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Why do any thought process differerent from others on this board always (and suddenly) have to become a conspiracy theory?

I think it is evident to all what is going on at UNT. Start with the sudden resignation of President Norval Pohl with no job lined up to go to once he leaves Denton? Sure he had his VP problems, but most would stick around and solve such a problems. There is just more than meets the eye than most will ever by privvy to and some things that cannot even be put on this board unelss you have a good attorney.

I think Lee Jackson is your basic good southern gentleman, but thats not what we are talking about here, but rather what I fear to be his agenda after talking to a few that have me concerned that our main campus (UNT-Denton) is going to be at the short-end of the stick because of this 2006 Jagaur that we bought (namely, UNT-Dallas) that we cannot make payments on (and couldn't from the git-go).

Check out UNT's total financial endowment to further prove that point. It will convince some of you that we really did screw up by taking on that south Dallas county project (and still at the expense of UNT-Denton).

GBT!

UNTLifer · December 16, 2005

I hope that I am 100% wrong, but with many who I know who will now be curbing their $upport (or not giving anything at all next year under present leadership),GBT!
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That is not the correct way to demonstrate our frustration. Maybe so at a UT, OU, Ohio State, etc..., but North Texas needs all the athletic boosters, Mean Green Club members and season ticket holders in can get. Otherwise, the lack of upward mobility will not only be the result of the administration but also the fans. How so you ask? What if your opinions are all wrong, and the present administration is striving to see the current plans for our athletic facilities through to the end, but the sticking point is a lack of alumni interest in the form of donations? What if the facilities are completed, CUSA, or another higher profile conference, comes a calling and rejects NT for lack of support? Who would be to blame then?

My point is that the fans and alumni need to keep supporting the program. This way, if the finger of blame ever needs to be pointed, we will only have to use one finger, and you can pick which one you want to use.

PlummMeanGreen · December 16, 2005

That is not the correct way to demonstrate our frustration. Maybe so at a UT, OU, Ohio State, etc..., but North Texas needs all the athletic boosters, Mean Green Club members and season ticket holders in can get. Otherwise, the lack of upward mobility will not only be the result of the administration but also the fans. How so you ask? What if your opinions are all wrong, and the present administration is striving to see the current plans for our athletic facilities through to the end, but the sticking point is a lack of alumni interest in the form of donations? What if the facilities are completed, CUSA, or another higher profile conference, comes a calling and rejects NT for lack of support? Who would be to blame then?
My point is that the fans and alumni need to keep supporting the program. This way, if the finger of blame ever needs to be pointed, we will only have to use one finger, and you can pick which one you want to use.
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Right or wrong, UNTLifer, just stating what I 've been told. Actually, some of the names planning on doing this would probably surprise some NT officials. My meager MG Club $500 is for sure not among the group I am referring to.

We have a problem that needs to get fixed at UNT and I think that is what those ones I refer to are trying to say with the best way they feel catches most people's attention: $

GBT!

untgirl04 · December 16, 2005

Right or wrong, UNTLifer, just stating what I 've been told. Actually, some of the names planning on doing this would probably surprise some NT officials. My meager MG Club $500 is for sure not among the group I am referring to.
We have a problem that needs to get fixed at UNT and I think that is what those ones I refer to are trying to say with the best way they feel catches most people's attention: $
GBT!
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If that's the case then your almuni friends (although I disagree with their choice) need to go tell the NT officials exactly what they're doing. Withdrawing support without saying why allows people to assume... and we all know what that means.

NT80 · December 16, 2005

Why is all that important? Because we don't want to be UT-Denton or Denton-A&M. In the not too distant future, the legislature is going to decide to save the state alot of money by following the UC lead and consolidating the public universities into a few systems. There are more and more rumblings about this every year.
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They can start consolidating by merging TWU into UNT. Two State-funded universities with duplicate programs 5 miles apart is a waste.

eulesseagle · December 16, 2005

UNT has always been plagued with the "lack" of big donors.

With that being said:

1. What has the university done to "ACTIVELY" go out and capture the money?? **Nobody in their right mind can honestly state that a "weak beg-a-thon" phone campaign, ever so often, gets the major donations we need.

**Nobody can say the "mailers" do that good!!

**I read about the acquitions that UNT makes on their building projects which is good BUT NEVER hear about ANY major campaigns to raise the money we NEED for a STADIUM project!!!! To me that is egregious!!! It is the complacent UNT administration/BOR slapping every UNT supporter in the face. If there was REALLY A MAJOR FUNDRAISING STADIUM PROJECT, at least, everyone in TEXAS would know about it!!!! Has anyone heard of such an animal????? All we hear about is the same chewed on carrot from the admin., "we have not found a major donor."

**OK ADMIN, GET OFF YOUR FUNDRAISING 101 BUTTS and do something. I can not remember the name of the NTSU president in 1970 who was a super fundraiser and got many of the projects started on campus. Now he was PRO-ACTIVE. We got a bunch of people who are ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL and are going to be responsible for the athletic program "CRASH - BURN AND DIE" into the Dante's Inferno of the SBC (or worse).

NT80 · December 16, 2005

I sense a LOT of pent up frustration from much of the fandom, I among them.

We desire a new football stadium, better coaching and results, more attendance, and a much better conference to play in.

We're like kids in the back of the car on a long trip asking every season "Are we there yet? When are we going to get there?". These side-road excursions to 2-9 seem to just add more time to our trip.

There is one answer to all our questions...$. We don't have enough of it. $ would build that stadium, pay to buyout contracts, buy new contracts for "name" applicants, pay game guarantees to lure better teams to Denton, and pay for much-needed better advertising; all of which = more attendance = a better conference.

Pull over to the rest stop if you want, but $ should be the last thing you stop giving.

BTW- Those $ would flow more freely if 2009 is REALLY on the books as a date for a new stadium! It wouldn't hurt for some higher-ups in UNT's administration to make a statement of support for such a project. Show us the LOVE!

Edited December 16, 2005 by NT80