Coach Jones

[Michael Scott]

Coach Jones always thanks the fans for coming out in every post game show.

I agree with Adler, the AD offices should do more to promote and enhance basketball games and not leave it all up to the Pit Crew.

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Go ask 100 students if they have any desire to go to a basketball game - they didn't get on board with football until after a championship or two. Win a couple of tournament games (especially if you host the stupid thing) and our (mostly - not all) apathetic student body might put down the bong and show up (jk.)

I know you all like to saint the Pit Crew, but I've never seen them around campus or had them convince me to come to a game. I chose to come myself, like most people there. They add atmosphere at the place - and that's about it. One guy in a fat suit outfit is not genius or groundbreaking. Genius or groundbreaking is the stuff they do at Maryland or Duke. I, like everyone, appreciates what they do, but in actuality they are a group of 20-30 people who come to the games and make noise and think it entitles them to condescendingly talk basketball with the rest of the fan base, play the martyr, and crucify everyone else who follows other sports. I don't see the fans of any other sports at this school do that and they get a lot less exposure. They stand out because no one else there. We do need more promotions, but there is no simple solution to get people to these games until the team wins something - regardless of all the free pizzas, free throw contests and competitions, and posters you see or don't see.

This is Texas and these are Texas mentality fans. Build a winner, then slap on the extras, and they get hooked. If you are concerned about something to do before the game, donate some money (250 for WBB or 500 for MBB) and go hang out in the Mean Green Club room/Letterman's Lounge. All you can drink liquor and beer and free food from local caterers. Yes, you have to pay a bit for it but if you go to a few games you (and your friends) pay off all the dinners and drinking you would have done otherwise - and you support the student athletes.

Just my .02...feel free to flame me.

[Coach]

I saw the Pit Crew do more cool stuff for basketball in one night (vs. TCU) than I have seen the AD do in four years. And no, I'm not talking about the fat girl costume, though that is funny. By the way, I have never sat with the Pit Crew, and don't have a dog in that fight, I am speaking as an objective North Texas basketball fan.

Winning helps, nobody will dispute that. However, the AD can't sit idly and keep their fingers crossed for a good season. They need to be pro-active in promoting and enhancing NT basketball.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Coach

[Michael Scott]

I saw the Pit Crew do more cool stuff for basketball in one night (vs. TCU) than I have seen the AD do in four years.  And no, I'm not talking about the fat girl costume, though that is funny.  By the way, I have never sat with the Pit Crew, and don't have a dog in that fight, I am speaking as an objective North Texas basketball fan.

Winning helps, nobody will dispute that.  However, the AD can't sit idly and keep their fingers crossed for a good season.  They need to be pro-active in promoting and enhancing NT basketball.

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I agree and am not trying to start a fight - which I doubt I will avoid here. I agree the Pit Crew adds a lot at the game but I disagree it is the AD's place to teach people to cheer. I think the AD needs to watch what the Mavericks do and try to emulate their atmosphere and I am NOT saying a good job is being done by them - AT ALL.

That said, I was at the TCU game and did not see what they did - I saw a game people were intense about ti because we started fast and played a great game. I saw the same thing at the WKU game too - when people have a stake in the action they get fired up and a student group should lead the cheering - the system worked. I also saw games where no one did much of anything because we were getting killed or playing Permian Basin State College.

More good games = better atmosphere.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---Turning a basketball around is much easier than turning a football program around. A BB team only plays 5 players at a time and most of the playing time is done with 7-8 players... Football uses 22 or more. Get two outstanding BB players and you are a big problem to deal with.... opponents can't double team two players.

--- Raiding good Junior College problems make sense as well. Midand College (where I work) sent players to Houston, Gonzaga, and a couple more I-A programs last year. A lot of JC colleges could defeat I-A programs... athletes here fall into three groups, ---overlooked by I-A programs (Spud Webb later of North Carolina State and NBA, is our great example)------ Can't make SAT scored need for freshman (Larry Johnson later at UNLV and NBA) ---- and last they may be good students but not quite I-A talent. In the 1980's we once had three future NBA players on campus at the same time.... Spud Webb (Dallas), Mookie Blaylock, and Rickey Grace. None of them were outlaw types... they were good kids.

About 1980, Indiana State, made the NCAA finals with Larry Bird.... they had very little else. One super star on a football team can do very little. Not true in basketball.

------Last comment... when OU played Larry Brown's Kansas team for the National NCAA Championship back in the 80's....3 of the starting 10 players were MC grads.. Tech had one grad that year and Arizona who was eliminated late had the other of MC's starting five. The point.. better take a good look at JC players, they have a lot of good playing time and many of them are very good and are alot more mature

Edited December 9, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Coach]

I meant the searchlights and pre-game events they put on. Maybe that's where you are misunderstanding. The AD should do those things, rather than have an upstart student organization put it on out of their own pocket (and donations from this board). I don't think the AD should teach people to cheer either, just do their best to get them in the Pit and we can go from there.

You can search for threads on the basketball board about things to improve the experience, this is not a new problem. Other than a couch sitting in the corner section, the games and the entertainment value are exactly the same as they were in my first semester. There appears to be no desire to be progressive in this area, and that is the main reason attendance is low that can be changed and controlled.

[Michael Scott]

I meant the searchlights and pre-game events they put on.  Maybe that's where you are misunderstanding.  The AD should do those things, rather than have an upstart student organization put it on out of their own pocket (and donations from this board).  I don't think the AD should teach people to cheer either, just do their best to get them in the Pit and we can go from there.

You can search for threads on the basketball board about things to improve the experience, this is not a new problem.  Other than a couch sitting in the corner section, the games and the entertainment value are exactly the same as they were in my first semester.  There appears to be no desire to be progressive in this area, and that is the main reason attendance is low that can be changed and controlled.

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I agree with you for the most part - but I don't see why it is the AD's place to set up tailgating. If you want to tailgate outside, tailgate. People will see it and maybe it will catch on. They cannot support free catered food downstairs and catering at the same time. If you set it up and want them to oversee the area - ask them. If this has been done before I apologize.

I honestly don't see the spotlight enticing people as much as everyone seems to think. Have you ever looked into the sky and followed the lights to fun? Maybe we can increase Batman's (or batmen's - or even that bat boy's) attendance at the game, but that's about it. It does make it look more "big time" I guess, but is not the pressing matter so many seem to think. Also, the AD doesn't own the Coliseum - they are stuck renting it from the university in a somewhat tense relationship.

If it was me, I'd get the players out on campus - talk to classes or meet and greet at the union whatever. Its so easy to build a "relationship" with players to students in this sport. Look at what the Mavs do with sections to cheer for different players and things like that. I think a player handing out schedules in the union and chatting it up would go a huge way towards butts in seats.

I did not want to just trash the Pit Crew, I just do not always enjoy the righteous attitude about basketball support. I think they should be inviting to everyone - not accusing people of non support on the board at every turn. The soccer fans who came on tried to hype up the game and be inviting on here - not say "hey you suck, I know you won't attend this game - why won't you attend that game you crappy fan."

Once again, just my .02

[UNTSIG]

I think that the Pit Crew is doing a lot of good things at basketball games and I am glad that we have them there. I wish that some of them were not misleading though on this board. Athletics DOES support them financially. How do you think that they paid for all of those t-shirts? They can thank Paul Batchelder for that. You shouldn't be so quick to jump on athletics about what you see as the lack of promotions for basketball games. You could give away all the prizes and money that you want and it will not increase attendance. Only winning increases attendance...again ONLY WINNING INCREASES ATTENDANCE! If the Mavs right now, were still the Mavs of the mid 90's, then American Airlines would not be the "fun" atmosphere that it is. If there is a lack of ideas coming out of the athletic department, then email them and let them know of your ideas but remember a few things:

1. It has to be cost efficent. A thousand dollar promotion that brings in 2 people is not a good use of money.

2. It has to be ok for the university to do. No Hooters girls serving hot wings and beer before the game and the basketball tailgating- you should just go straight to the administration to convince them of this one, athletics can't do anything for you about the liquor.

3. You have to have an effective medium to get the message out. Nobody pays attention to the fliers around campus anymore. The table tents are hardly recognized and the ads in the Daily go unnoticed. By the way....every single one of those things that I just mentioned are done for EVERY home game. They put up table tents, fliers and an ad in the NT Daily.

So, good luck and I don't say that being a smart ass. I sincerly mean it, good luck! I am sure that Paul and Jamie would gladly accept any idea that would help North Texas Basketball.

[Michael Scott]

I think that the Pit Crew is doing a lot of good things at basketball games and I am glad that we have them there.  I wish that some of them were not misleading though on this board.  Athletics DOES support them financially.  How do you think that they paid for all of those t-shirts?  They can thank Paul Batchelder for that.  You shouldn't be so quick to jump on athletics about what you see as the lack of promotions for basketball games.  You could give away all the prizes and money that you want and it will not increase attendance.  Only winning increases attendance...again ONLY WINNING INCREASES ATTENDANCE!  If the Mavs right now, were still the Mavs of the mid 90's, then American Airlines would not be the "fun" atmosphere that it is.  If there is a lack of ideas coming out of the athletic department, then email them and let them know of your ideas but remember a few things:

1.  It has to be cost efficent.  A thousand dollar promotion that brings in 2 people is not a good use of money.

2.  It has to be ok for the university to do.  No Hooters girls serving hot wings and beer before the game and the basketball tailgating- you should just go straight to the administration to convince them of this one, athletics can't do anything for you about the liquor.

3.  You have to have an effective medium to get the message out.  Nobody pays attention to the fliers around campus anymore.  The table tents are hardly recognized and the ads in the Daily go unnoticed.  By the way....every single one of those things that I just mentioned are done for EVERY home game.  They put up table tents, fliers and an ad in the NT Daily.

So, good luck and I don't say that being a smart ass.  I sincerly mean it, good luck!  I am sure that Paul and Jamie would gladly accept any idea that would help North Texas Basketball.

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Good post Sig

[UNTFan23]

I think that the Pit Crew is doing a lot of good things at basketball games and I am glad that we have them there.  I wish that some of them were not misleading though on this board.  Athletics DOES support them financially.  How do you think that they paid for all of those t-shirts?  They can thank Paul Batchelder for that. 

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Those T-shirts were NOT free. If only Gak wasn't banned, he could tell you a story about those t-shirts.

[Michael Scott]

Those T-shirts were NOT free.  If only Gak wasn't banned, he could tell you a story about those t-shirts.

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Could you tell us?

[Stan R]

Gak is banned? Why?

[UNT_92_Fan]

Long stpry short on the shirts...the pit crew were fronted money and they are paying it back still...they were not free...we are grateful that we were fronted the money or we would have looked like a bunch of idiots without any order...now we just look like organized idiots....and as far as the "funding" that people are talking the crewis getting from the AD... There is not any...Collectively after donations from the alumni and fans on this board....it still ran about 300 to 400 dollars deep into Gak, Mrstrange, and my pocket....more so on Gak than me and strange i believe....yeah...to some 300 to 400 to promote your team is not alot but for some poor ass college kids that is rough....

As far as the pit crew not being on campus and "flaming people" for not coming out...I do not recall myself personally flaming anyone...I have challenged some folks to come out...but I know i haven't and i am pretty sure the head guys in the group have not claimed "you suck you dont come to the games...." I could be wrong but ya know who cares! People support football because its texas and yeah we have won a few championships...I SUPPORT NORTH TEXAS...as do 99% of the people on this board and i know i am rpeaching to the choir here....but its our school not just our football program...Basketball can and will get us a better shot at a better conference. Basketball team...even as far fetched as it sounds...has a chance at a national championship...lots of miracles there but hell they have the oppurtunity to do it...The teams that have been put on the court the last two years have been special...yeah its a disappointment that we couldnt win a game in the tourney...but how many people know the injuries we were dealing with in that game...how many people (again aver. person) can name five people OTHER THAN BARNETT on the team....Yes its true JB is my friend and I do stick up for everyone's favorite whipping boy...but still SUPPORT THIS TEAM... Last year The Pit Crew again spent some donation money and a good sum of their own money to do on campus promotions....We had a sign up on campus for a few different games but when we were able to get the "proper" signatires we stoped that....

I thank those of you that do support us so well and this year is already off to a rough start for us seeing as how 85%of the core from alst year is trying to graduate and working multiple jobs...but before you assume we arent' doing anything...please please check first because in a university of damn near 40K....15 or less guys and girls with little funding (again the funding we do have we are grateful for) its real hard to do something!*

*just to clarify again...every memeber of the Crew appreciates the help many of you have given us and we are still wroking tog et something big to hand down to the younger people in the Crew...Thanks....

UNT_92

**If you didnt like the fat lady suit then wait till we bust out the new idea we have....but it prob. isn't original anyways

Edited December 9, 2005 by UNT_92_Fan

[UNT_92_Fan]

Also.....I meant to say that Paul and Jamie have been very helpful with all this...anytime we need something that they can help us with they do what they can and hell they even saved us a table at the banquet last year....I wasn't trying to come down on those guys they are class acts.

[Michael Scott]

Long stpry short on the shirts...the pit crew were fronted money and they are paying it back still...they were not free...we are grateful that we were fronted the money or we would have looked like a bunch of idiots without any order...now we just look like organized idiots....and as far as the "funding" that people are talking the crewis getting from the AD... There is not any...Collectively after donations from the alumni and fans on this board....it still ran about 300 to 400 dollars deep into Gak, Mrstrange, and my pocket....more so on Gak than me and strange i believe....yeah...to some 300 to 400 to promote your team is not alot but for some poor ass college kids that is rough....

As far as the pit crew not being on campus and "flaming people" for not coming out...I do not recall myself personally flaming anyone...I have challenged some folks to come out...but I know i haven't and i am pretty sure the head guys in the group have not claimed "you suck you dont come to the games...." I could be wrong but ya know who cares!  People support football because its texas and yeah we have won a few championships...I SUPPORT NORTH TEXAS...as do 99% of the people on this board and i know i am rpeaching to the choir here....but its our school not just our football program...Basketball can and will get us a better shot at a better conference.  Basketball team...even as far fetched as it sounds...has a chance at a national championship...lots of miracles there but hell they have the oppurtunity to do it...The teams that have been put on the court the last two years have been special...yeah its a disappointment that we couldnt win a game in the tourney...but how many people know the injuries we were dealing with in that game...how many people (again aver. person) can name five people OTHER THAN BARNETT on the team....Yes its true JB is my friend and I do stick up for everyone's favorite whipping boy...but still SUPPORT THIS TEAM... Last year The Pit Crew again spent some donation money and a good sum of their own money to do on campus promotions....We had a sign up on campus for a few different games but when we were able to get the "proper" signatires we stoped that....

I thank those of you that do support us so well and this year is already off to a rough start for us seeing as how 85%of the core from alst year is trying to graduate and working multiple jobs...but before you assume we arent' doing anything...please please check first because in a university of damn near 40K....15 or less guys and girls with little funding (again the funding we do have we are grateful for) its real hard to do something!*

*just to clarify again...every memeber of the Crew appreciates the help many of you have given us and we are still wroking tog et something big to hand down to the younger people in the Crew...Thanks....

UNT_92

**If you didnt like the fat lady suit then wait till we bust out the new idea we have....but it prob. isn't original anyways

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I loved the fat lady suit at first and I know this is difficult to do the job you think someone else should be doing - especially when you watch them dismiss a lot of what you do. I think the marketing staff is trying, but I think the Pit Crew is making a mistake by feeling the need to make more signs. The signs are out there - signs are not the key to attendance. Focus your time and resources on the games and maybe some grassroots. If you feel the need for signage - have the group do a chalkboard run or something that does not cost anything. Ask for a space to promote the organization. Making more signs just gets more students used to the idea of shutting out the same stuff they see on table tents, posters, etc.

I think crossing into the AD's territory and then taking shots when possible is not the way to go. As much of a pain and as bad as an expereince you've had with them (join the club BTW), forging a working relationship is the best way to move it forward. If the AD saw you guys as a free and willing volunteer staff it would probably go a long way towards moving ideas forward. Also, I have never been attacked by or know you 92, but I have seen others take the condescending attitude I spoke of.

I agree basketball is a big factor in moving up as well, but both programs can grow together. This year would be the best stage possible for the bball team to take off. Its no coincidence the Mavs made their move while the Cowboys were so down. This could be the start of a similar scenario I hope - and eventually both teams can be rocking at the same time.

[UNT_92_Fan]

I appreciate the support Michael...We were kinda asked as a group to promote games last year on campus by the AD....Short story...they asked us to promote the hell outta the home games and be the front runners in promotions...again poor college kids only resource is his voice...and on campus thats get you so far....but hey we are trying! I am all for some new stuff the same show is getting boring!!!

GMG

[Michael Scott]

I appreciate the support Michael...We were kinda asked as a group to promote games last year on campus by the AD....Short story...they asked us to promote the hell outta the home games and be the front runners in promotions...again poor college kids only resource is his voice...and on campus thats get you so far....but hey we are trying! I am all for some new stuff the same show is getting boring!!!

GMG

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They asked you to promote and gave no resources? WTF?

I appreciate the enthusiasm you guys bring - its contagious in the arena. I still hear the nice shot and drum beats whenever I watch a foul shot in any game anywhere. That, and making fun of Billups's brother.

[NT80]

I appreciate any student-run group trying to increase attendance. More attendance makes any game more fun. Students are likely to return if they see their peers there.

Some things to note:

Unlike football on every Saturday, basketball has an erratic schedule which is hard for fans to remember. Also, some basketball opponents are less than regular household names. Maybe handout small basketball schedule magnets. Otherwise, start with one upcoming home game to focus your advertising on. Then another later.

The sidewalk-chalk idea is good.

The fake folded dollar bill on the ground or table with basketball message on the inside can be effective in a student environment. It will get their attention if nothing else.

People usually don't read small posted signs, but they will listen to small "verbal" messages as they pass. Use the human-billboard approach they used on "The Apprentice" recently. A person or persons standing with a front and back visual placard around them while announcing the game ensures verbal and visual reinforcment and will make people take notice. Place several people in high traffic areas of your target students, like the Union Building, Library, Dorms, outside academic buildings, parking garages, etc.

[Michael Scott]

I appreciate any student-run group trying to increase attendance.  More attendance makes any game more fun.  Students are likely to return if they see their peers there. 

Some things to note: 

Unlike football on every Saturday, basketball has an erratic schedule which is hard for fans to remember.  Also, some basketball opponents are less than regular household names.  Maybe handout small basketball schedule magnets.  Otherwise, start with one upcoming home game to focus your advertising on.  Then another later.

The sidewalk-chalk idea is good.

The fake folded dollar bill on the ground or table with basketball message on the inside can be effective in a student environment.  It will get their attention if nothing else.

People usually don't read small posted signs, but they will listen to small "verbal" messages as they pass.  Use the human-billboard approach they used on "The Apprentice" recently.  A person or persons standing with a front and back visual placard around them while announcing the game ensures verbal and visual reinforcment and will make people take notice.  Place several people in high traffic areas of your target students, like the Union Building, Library, Dorms, outside academic buildings, parking garages, etc.

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The focus of advertising is already one game at a time - based on what I've seen.

I think the verbal messaging would get mixed reaction. UNT students, like most colleges, are incredibly wary of solicitors or people talking to them. Some pull out fake cell phone calls, go out of their way to look down, or just get antsy in general. i'm not sure if that would pull in that many with this student body, but a new approach wouldn't hurt. Maybe get a restaurant to donate some food to give away or something to lure them in (which I am pretty sure has been done by the AD before.)

New ideas are what we need though, for sure.

[Stan R]

Can we buy the pit crew tshirts at the games if we bring cash?

[UNTSIG]

unt-appreciate the post. again, i think that the pit crew is doing some amazing things and they are great for the university. i commend any student group that tries to get out there and help...realizing that they are volunteering there time. i am sure that you would agree, a lot of people come on here and bash the promotions and marketing department...i just wish that some of those who work with these guys, would stand up for them every once in a while. i am not saying that you should feel that it is your personal mission to defend them at every corner, it's just that i have seen some post in the past (especially at the beginning of the pit crew) that have praised you on one hand and came down hard on the AD on the other and the members of the pit crew that post on here just let the statement go, i am not sure why. oh and the t-shirt money...it's been over a year since they let you "borrow" that, i am sure that they are not counting it into the budget

[ADLER]

Gak is banned?    Why?

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It was something about turning from being Incrediboy to becoming Syndrome and terrorizing the citizens of Ft Worth.

I'm just kiding. Like many of others that have preceded him, Gak has simply flown too close to the fire. There is a legacy of passionate North Texas fans getting burned when they've been busting their tails to help this program. As a matter of fact, there is a Voy forum dedicated to this very premise. Some call it Donald Grizwold Syndrome, but I'm sure it even predates him.

[Stan R]

It was something about turning from being Incrediboy to becoming Syndrome and terrorizing the citizens of Ft Worth.

I'm just kiding.  Like many of others that have preceded him, Gak has simply flown too close to the fire. There is a legacy of passionate North Texas fans getting burned when they've been busting their tails to help this program. As a matter of fact, there is a Voy forum dedicated to this very premise. Some call it Donald Grizwold Syndrome, but I'm sure it even predates him.

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Greatness.

[CMJ]

As a Talon my entire time in college I feel safe asking this.

WHERE ARE THE TALONS AT THE BASKETBALL GAMES(granted it was something that irritated me even when I was in school)?? All I hear and read about on the board is the Pit Crew. Are we laying down like dogs? I never missed a game unless I was working.

Proud to be a Talon.

[UNTLifer]

Who are the Talons?

[NT80]

Who are the Talons?

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Edited December 9, 2005 by NT80