Dunham's verbal attack

Season Ticket Holder · December 2, 2005

Hello, I am the fan that George Dunham verbally attacked in front of my family and friends last Saturday after the ARKST football game.

I am a season ticket holder (4 seats)and MGC member and have been for the last four years. I have been a loyal fan since 1970. My family has attended two of the last three football banquets and one of the last two basketball banquets. We go to the spring and fall scrimmages. We had season tickets for basketball, lower bowl, for the two seasons prior to this year. I cancelled this years tickets. We have purchased raffle tickets for the Regal Eagle the last two years.

George Dunham's conduct last Saturday was reprehensible. His verbal assult was unjustified and shameful for a UNT employee.

It seems unjust that Dunham is allowed to spin this incident in his favor on his radio show and that the Athletic Department refuses to admit any wrong doing by Dunham.

We have friends who have 9 season tickets two or three rows down from the center of the press box. My seats are lower and in a different section. Each game we all tailgate together and then at game time we go to our seperate seats. Five of the 9 season tickets are owned by a UNT fan who lives in Connecticut. He will fly his family of five down for one, sometimes two games each year. We all always try to bring someone to use the extra seats when they can not fly down to Dallas. This past Saturday my family decided to sit with our friends in their seats up under the press box.

Here is what happened. After the game I told my wife I was going to try and catch RV down on the field. I had watched him standing in the south endzone for the entire game and I wanted to thank him for everything he had done for our football program. My wife said, "Go ahead, I'll meet you down on the field. I hurrid down the steps. After I visited with RV I turned around and saw my wife waving. I walked over to where she, my son and friends were standing. My son mentioned to me that he thought Dunham was talking about me when GD was making his way down the steps from the press box. Remember I am long gone, talking to RV. I didn't give my son's statement much thought other than maybe my voice carrid over the air waves but heck, I didn't cuss or say anything bad.

As we were standing on the field talking my son says, "Hey dad, here comes George Dunham." I turn and see Dunham walking towards where we are standing. His neck was lowered and his head was leaning forward and I noticed him glarring at me. As he entered our space I said,"hey George, how you doing?"

George immediately shouted out, "YOU'RE THAT JERK" "YOU DON'T BELONG HERE' 'YOU'RE NOT THE KIND OF FANS WE WANT

My wife, my son, my friends and I are stunned. What?? I replied calmly that, I have been a fan for years and I have a right to come to the games and also say what I want."

George shouted, "NO YOU DON'T" "YOU'VE GOT NOTHING INVESTED IN THIS PROGRAM" YOU'RE DISEASED, Dunham shouted.

Dunham began to walk towards the press box, still shouting at me. When Dunham got to the where the players benches were he shouted, "SOMEONE THAT ONLY CONTRIBUTES 75.00 PER YEAR HAD NO RIGHTS TO VOICE AN OPINION" He then shouted "JERK" "YOU'RE DISEASED" Dunham then accussed me of cussing the coaches. We all looked at each other, like what is this gus talking about?

I suggested Dunham clean up his radio show and gave him a standing ovation still perplexed as to what the heck was that all about.

This is what I didn't know at the time. When Dunham was walking down the steps from the press box someone asked him, "Hey Dunham, wheres your police escort?" Dunham replied,"I don't need an escort. If a fan like that jerk said anything to me I would go over there and put his ass back in his seat. He must be starring in his own movie, what an idiot. The coaches and players have so much more invested in this program than that jerk." My son was standing right there. In fact my son asked Dunham, "Why were we not in the shotgun with 30 seconds left?" Dunham replied, "Because Phillips isn't very good taking the snap in the shotgum."

So what did I yell that day? "Throw the ball" "shotgun" "help us RV' "throw the ball downfield" "Boo" 'We're not even trying to win this game"

But more dissappointing than Dunham's deplorable behavior was how RV treated me via telephone. No wonder there were 25,000 empty seats!

Funny. It is no longer good enough that you buy season tickets or join the MGC. You must now pass the George Dunham litmus test on who can attend games and who can't. Who has a right to speak and who doesn't. Who is a supporter and who is not.

Sad day for UNT athletics.

Thank you for listening.

meangreendork · December 2, 2005

Dunham, just the like the rest of the UNT fandom is just hot-headed over this year's performance. Trust me, I hear lots of students yelling the same things at the coaching staff about playcalling, formations, player subs, etc.

PlummMeanGreen · December 2, 2005

Uh oh!

Like many on GMG.com have been trying to recently say to the point of ad nausem to most: It's just too many things up there that are out of control in Mean Green Country, folks, and it need not be that way (and it certainly need not stay that way).

UNT staffers can do all the piling on of any one alum or group of our loyal fans that they so desire, but (just like the preacher in the little country church would say) there will be a day of reckoning, fellow parishioners.

GOD BLESS TEXANS (and even would-be Texans)!

Edited December 2, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

UNTBill · December 2, 2005

Hello, I am the fan that George Dunham verbally attacked in front of my family and friends last Saturday after the ARKST football game.
I am a season ticket holder (4 seats)and MGC member and have been for the last four years. I have been a loyal fan since 1970. My family has attended two of the last three football banquets and one of the last two basketball banquets. We go to the spring and fall scrimmages. We had season tickets for basketball, lower bowl, for the two seasons prior to this year. I cancelled this years tickets. We have purchased raffle tickets for the Regal Eagle the last two years.
George Dunham's conduct last Saturday was reprehensible. His verbal assult was unjustified and shameful for a UNT employee.
It seems unjust that Dunham is allowed to spin this incident in his favor on his radio show and that the Athletic Department refuses to admit any wrong doing by Dunham.
We have friends who have 9 season tickets two or three rows down from the center of the press box. My seats are lower and in a different section. Each game we all tailgate together and then at game time we go to our seperate seats. Five of the 9 season tickets are owned by a UNT fan who lives in Connecticut. He will fly his family of five down for one, sometimes two games each year. We all always try to bring someone to use the extra seats when they can not fly down to Dallas. This past Saturday my family decided to sit with our friends in their seats up under the press box.
Here is what happened. After the game I told my wife I was going to try and catch RV down on the field. I had watched him standing in the south endzone for the entire game and I wanted to thank him for everything he had done for our football program. My wife said, "Go ahead, I'll meet you down on the field. I hurrid down the steps. After I visited with RV I turned around and saw my wife waving. I walked over to where she, my son and friends were standing. My son mentioned to me that he thought Dunham was talking about me when GD was making his way down the steps from the press box. Remember I am long gone, talking to RV. I didn't give my son's statement much thought other than maybe my voice carrid over the air waves but heck, I didn't cuss or say anything bad.
As we were standing on the field talking my son says, "Hey dad, here comes George Dunham." I turn and see Dunham walking towards where we are standing. His neck was lowered and his head was leaning forward and I noticed him glarring at me. As he entered our space I said,"hey George, how you doing?"
George immediately shouted out, "YOU'RE THAT JERK" "YOU DON'T BELONG HERE' 'YOU'RE NOT THE KIND OF FANS WE WANT
My wife, my son, my friends and I are stunned. What?? I replied calmly that, I have been a fan for years and I have a right to come to the games and also say what I want."
George shouted, "NO YOU DON'T" "YOU'VE GOT NOTHING INVESTED IN THIS PROGRAM" YOU'RE DISEASED, Dunham shouted.
Dunham began to walk towards the press box, still shouting at me. When Dunham got to the where the players benches were he shouted, "SOMEONE THAT ONLY CONTRIBUTES 75.00 PER YEAR HAD NO RIGHTS TO VOICE AN OPINION" He then shouted "JERK" "YOU'RE DISEASED" Dunham then accussed me of cussing the coaches. We all looked at each other, like what is this gus talking about?
I suggested Dunham clean up his radio show and gave him a standing ovation still perplexed as to what the heck was that all about.
This is what I didn't know at the time. When Dunham was walking down the steps from the press box someone asked him, "Hey Dunham, wheres your police escort?" Dunham replied,"I don't need an escort. If a fan like that jerk said anything to me I would go over there and put his ass back in his seat. He must be starring in his own movie, what an idiot. The coaches and players have so much more invested in this program than that jerk." My son was standing right there. In fact my son asked Dunham, "Why were we not in the shotgun with 30 seconds left?" Dunham replied, "Because Phillips isn't very good taking the snap in the shotgum."
So what did I yell that day? "Throw the ball" "shotgun" "help us RV' "throw the ball downfield" "Boo" 'We're not even trying to win this game"
But more dissappointing than Dunham's deplorable behavior was how RV treated me via telephone. No wonder there were 25,000 empty seats!
Funny. It is no longer good enough that you buy season tickets or join the MGC. You must now pass the George Dunham litmus test on who can attend games and who can't. Who has a right to speak and who doesn't. Who is a supporter and who is not.
Sad day for UNT athletics.
Thank you for listening.
←

I'm the fan he mentioned with the 9 season tickets.

What season ticket holder said was extremely accurate. I was in the stands when George began his verbal assualt and was on the field as well when he continued his attack on this fan. At no time did this fan use profanity or any other inappropriate language

Edited December 2, 2005 by UNTBill

Michael Scott · December 2, 2005

The show this morning really was spin to make you look like a jerk who's looking for media to rally your cause - because they can with their platform. I've never thought much of the morning show (its nice they went here I guess) - but do like the Ticket as a whole.

I know you probably cannot go into it, but how exactly did the staff respond? Did the MGC or Ticket Office try to help you at all or persuade you to stay?

Even if you were wrong in this, how can they treat any of their stakeholders this way when we our monetary supporters number in the hundreds?

Green92 · December 2, 2005

Doesn't George Dunham do the games for free? Was someone listening on the radio and can tell us exactly what was heard over the broadcast?

Michael Scott · December 2, 2005

Doesn't George Dunham do the games for free? Was someone listening on the radio and can tell us exactly what was heard over the broadcast?
←

I was listening - and my thought was, "Wow, you can hear what I always hear at Fouts on the radio - it must be empty."

I heard nothing vulgar or over the line, just a loud fan unhappy with the season.

Maybe it was George's best work and he planned to submit the tape for a new commentary job and now it's ruined?

Edited December 2, 2005 by Michael Scott

Mad Hatter · December 2, 2005

I wouldn't say it's a sad day for UNT athletics. I'd say it's been a bad year for UNT athletics. Should he, as an adult (not to mention employee) been able to control his anger? Absolutely! But does he, as a huge UNT fan, not have the right to get upset with someone, that he thinks, is being less than appreciative of the coaches and players?

I'm one of those that will Boo the refs all game long, but I won't boo the players and coaches, and I don't have NEARLY as much invested in the program than Dunham. He goes to ALL of the games, talks FREQUENTLY with the coaches and players, gets beat up on the air for being such a UNT homer. I'd say he was probably VERY frustrated with the way the season had gone, and took exception to someone he felt was treating the players and coaches unfairly, and let his anger get the best of him. Especially at the last game of the season, wehn there weren't a bunch of people around to applaud the team and thank them for being the Mean Green. I'm sure Patrick Cobbs and the rest of the seniors appreciate their team and coach being Boo'd at. Sure he should control himself, and I commend you for not charging after him like certain coaches, but he DOES have the right to fired up for the program. We all do. I guess we all just show it differently.

By the way, Welcome to the Board. I hope this incident at the end of a bad year, won't keep you from coming around. We really need all the fans we can get, especially those that are TRUE fans.

MeanGreenEngineer · December 2, 2005

I am confused.

It's ok for Person A to yell at Person B.

It's not ok for Person C to yell at Person A, for yelling at Person B?

Doesn't sound logical to me.

How about Person A/B/C just not yell at anyone?

Edited December 2, 2005 by MeanGreenEngineer

ntsumgspe · December 2, 2005

Doesn't George Dunham do the games for free? Was someone listening on the radio and can tell us exactly what was heard over the broadcast?
←

I listened to the rebroadcast, which is available on KNTU's website, and couldn't really hear anything. Dunhass needs to get off of his high horse !

LongJim · December 2, 2005

[attachmentid=184]...

Harry · December 2, 2005

While I am sorry to hear your story, I would ask that if you are making the claims that you are, you probably ought to provide your name. I just say that because of the fact that you're using anonymity takes away from the validity of your statement. You use the name of George and RV so frankly you should be willing to use your name as well given the severity of the charges you are making.

On George - there hasn't been a more loyal supporter of Mean Green Athletics that I know or have known. This is a guy that truly loves the school and has been there through the good times and bad. He's given a LOT of his time and gives us uncountless media coverage when others won't. I didn't hear your comments during the game because I was on the student side for most of the game. I'll be honest, I don't like people criticizing George just the same way as I don't like security guards going after Firefightn Rick. There are certain supporters of our program that deserve the benefit of the doubt. I also think George should be given the benefit of the doubt this year especially since the season was such a disappointment. We were all frustrated with how things turned out.

One of the biggest criticisms of this board over the years has been that people are able to hide behind user names and say whatever they want to say without any consequence. I believe that the anonymity (sp?) also allows people to speak freely and opens up a lot of good information so it is a double edged sword in many respects. The coaches and administrators at UNT are public figures and hence should be aware that they are being discussed by the fanbase. In this particular case though, the fact that you remain anonymous, while criticizing one of our best supporters by name doesn't seem fair.

December 2, 2005

"It seems unjust that Dunham is allowed to spin this incident in his favor..."

Well now that you have spun it in your favor, everyone is even!

PlummMeanGreen · December 2, 2005

Some of us who in the past have deal't with a 1 or 2 particular UNT staffers who (seemedly) would rather there by a Mean Green athletic program w/o having fans around.

Anyway, I would tell "Season Ticket Holder" that once all this is (hopefully) settled, that he can certainly not count on any semblance of an apology from most of the group we now have in Denton and some of them in Denton maybe a bit longer than their production record seems to reveal that they might better serve their own career goals somewhere else where fans don't seem to bother them as much as NT fans seem to)?

In 30 plus years of my following Mean Green athletics, I've truly never seen anything like what is (and has been) happening at our alma mater in recent days, months as well as years. I understand Bobby Ray (who I as one alums been a bit tough on I'll be the first to admit) is a very successful and most admired businessman when he's off campus, yet I just can't see that he would condone such things in own very successful business, least of all at the University of North Texas.

I'll for damn sure be glad when we will (hopefully) soon enough get some fresh new faces on staff who will come to Denton with a fresh and new positive approach toward longtime (and new) NT fans and contributors as their modus operendi; that is, instead of what seems to be continuing (and even now on public display) bashings of the very NT constituency that UNT officials annually tell us in the summer when we are trying to sell season tickets that they would like to see more of .

GMT!

Edited December 2, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

Cowtown · December 2, 2005

I listened to the broadcast, could hear someone yelling, quite alot in the 4th Q.

It was kind of funny, kind of annoying. I noticed GD trying to talk over whoever was doing the shouting. I imagine he was pretty fed up with it by the end of the game.

It has been a bad year.

Welcome to the board.

Michael Scott · December 2, 2005

"It seems unjust that Dunham is allowed to spin this incident in his favor..."
Well now that you have spun it in your favor, everyone is even!
←

Lol

Looks like both sides were in the wrong here - debating the degree of it won't help too much.

The only thing that concerns me is the sometimes flippant attitude displayed to supporters - big or small.

As Plumm said, this is still partially a customer service business, and I wish we always did our best to help the customer to whatever degree possible.

UNTBill · December 2, 2005

"It seems unjust that Dunham is allowed to spin this incident in his favor..."
Well now that you have spun it in your favor, everyone is even!
←

As I mentioned in an earlier post and will reiterate, "Season ticket holders" post is not spin and is an accurate picture of the events that transpired. He did not use profanity, which I believe he was accused of. He was loud, but for heavens sake wasn't this a football game.

So as not to be anonymous.

Bill Kelly

214-727-7497

ntsumgspe · December 2, 2005

There are certain supporters of our program that deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Does benefit of the doubt include confronting and verbally attacking supporters of the team ? And what does one need to do in order to get "the benefit of the doubt ?"

pollock · December 2, 2005

But more dissappointing than Dunham's deplorable behavior was how RV treated me via telephone. No wonder there were 25,000 empty seats!
←

I really don't understand most of your post. Pretty disjointed account. Sounds like Jub thought you said something that you apparently didn't say, and he blew up about it. Pretty unprofessional, if true, but I doubt you will be able to get an angry mob together to run the great Georgio out of town.

But I am curious as to what RV said to you on the phone, and what you said that prompted his reaction.

Anyway, I appreciate your enthusiasm. If my tickets were closer to the pressbox, I'm sure someone would be yelling at me and my friends for our constant DD bashing.

FirefightnRick · December 2, 2005

Welcome to the board STH and UNTBill.

Rick

MeanGreen61 · December 2, 2005

Have we entered the Twilight Zone?

Coffee and TV · December 2, 2005

Seems fair if you want to tell your side of the story to those on the board who are very committed and can relate to what a horribly frustrating year this has been. I sit on the student side, and can be heard many times (depending on which game) screaming at the coaches or players is some instances, when they may make a pretty dumb mistake.

However, I must disagree with your decision to drop season tickets to the basketball program. I think its only right that you go to Dunham at a game and try to work out the situation, and I bet he'll apologize just like Flanigan did to SilverEagle.

TIgreen01 · December 2, 2005

As someone who sits pretty near that area.....was there not an exchange (seems like sometime during the 4th quarter) where this group of fans yelled at the pressbox, and got a response from someone in the box?....only to turn back around and start shouting back at the pressbox louder?

Seems like this group of fans has been pretty "boisterous" all season....and was behaving the same way the day of the RF incident as well. Granted, I don't know who your group is specifically, but that general area in the stands has been pretty noticeable this season....noticeably behaving badly.

Rudy · December 2, 2005

I am in Lower Section E and was on the field after. I didn't see any of this. Can anyone unbiased confirm this?

Eagle-96 · December 2, 2005

STH:

Email George at the Ticket and tell him your side. Make your views known and bury the hatchet. Better yet, call the radio show and talk to him. The producer will definately put the call through as everyone on the show loves to see George uncomfortable and on the spot. Talk to him about it man to man and be done with it.