My Epiphany

emmitt01 · November 29, 2005

I'll wear a DD "L & A" t-shirt if that's what this post leads many of you to assume about me (cough, UNTSig, cough, ganggrene, cough) but I don't think I am one.

I don't blame DD for this season, honestly. I blame those above him. Mediocrity isn't a sin around here. I don't think RV, Bobby Ray, or even Lee Jackson sits back and says to themselves "I wish UNT had the laughing stock of all 1A football programs" but I think it's the culture we have come to expect. Let me explain:

For as long as I have followed NT athletics (born in Denton in '78) there has been a prevailing notion that there were the UT's, aTm's, USC's, Michigan's of the world and then there were the NT's, ULL's, New Mexico State's of the world. NT never tried to reach for the stratosphere because we've always had so many stumbling blocks laid out ahead of us. Bad facilities. Bad fan support. Miniscule athletic endowment. People won't take us seriously. Every excuse in the book to feel and, as a byproduct, act like second class citizens. Even as a high school student in Denton NT was looked at as the "in case" institution. We've been told so long that we can't compete with the big boys that we believe it.

When our administration has looked at our athletic programs they have seen one of a few things over the years...a necessary evil, a distraction, a pet project, or an opportunity to do the "most with the least." It's this last phrase that I think haunts us. We often brag about how our teams rank "among the best in the Sun Belt conference across the board" or how we are "conference champions or runners up in X amount of sports." We have a serious case of big fish in a small pond syndrome. Hell, we even advertise that our school is the "leading university of the metroplex." It is as if we cannot come out and proclaim ourselves to be exemplary bar none at anything because we expect the requisite backlash. We are truly afraid to act and be great!!!

We can bitch, piss and moan about how DD has run this program into the ground all we want but let's not lose sight of the big picture. From what great heights has he run us into the ground from? When were we on top of the proverbial mountain to have fallen off?

What is lacking, I think, is a bold mission statement or a proclomation of where we want, expect and will not accept not reaching. Does everyone remember when RV first got here? We had quarterly meetings where he would talk of his plans to resurrect NT athletics, bring us up on the food chain and make us all proud. Then those meeting went the way of the dinosaur when the politics and reality of North Texas stared him in the face. That's not his fault. It's ours. We need to make it abundantly clear that we expect to one day go toe to toe with UT or Oklahoma and smack them in the mouth. We need to be unwavering when we say that we expect kids to list NT as their first choice when they apply for college.

But the answer isn't on this or any other message board. I can type the words "unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable....higher expectations, higher expectations, higher expectations" until I'm blue in the face and some of you have. I'll even print up the t-shirts if you want. We can all wear them to our same old decrepit stadium to watch our team lose by 50 for the next few years.

We need to communicate to our leadership that we are tied, nay married, to this university because we don't view our alma mater as the runt brother...and make it clear that if they treat it like one we will not be silent. My suggestion would be to write RV, Bobby Ray, Norval, Lee Jackson, whomever you can and tell them we want to hear and see a clear vision for where we are headed. Make it clear that hearing about things like our new logos after the fact will not be stood for anymore. Let them know that we don't consider OOC games "body bag", "canned hunt", or "paycheck" games...we look at them as stepping stones on our way up the ladder and that they had better do the same. Most of all, though, we need to be able to say in one unified voice that if they will give us the vision we will give them the means. That means our money, our time, our attendance through the growing pains. No jumping ship at the first sight of bad seas.

Edited November 29, 2005 by emmitt01

UNTFan23 · November 29, 2005

Emmitt for president!

Coach · November 29, 2005

That was a very good post, but I have reservations about Emmitt serving as both AD and President.

GangGreen · November 29, 2005

What did I do? I don't hate you, I hate Coach.

Eagle1855 · November 29, 2005

What is lacking, I think, is a bold mission statement or a proclomation of where we want, expect and will not accept not reaching. Does everyone remember when RV first got here? We had quarterly meetings where he would talk of his plans to resurrect NT athletics, bring us up on the food chain and make us all proud. Then those meeting went the way of the dinosaur when the politics and reality of North Texas stared him in the face. That's not his fault. It's ours. We need to make it abundantly clear that we expect to one day go toe to toe with UT or Oklahoma and smack them in the mouth. We need to be unwavering when we say that we expect kids to list NT as their first choice when they apply for college.
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Agree 100%, well put. I think this is the most important thing we can do right now to keep interest in our athletics, as well as our university as a whole.

Michael Scott · November 29, 2005

Its funny how everyone wants the same thing - but will fight like hell over the details of it.

Emmitt for chancellor

PlummMeanGreen · November 29, 2005

I'll wear a DD "L & A" t-shirt if that's what this post leads many of you to assume about me (cough, UNTSig, cough, ganggrene, cough) but I don't think I am one.
I don't blame DD for this season, honestly. I blame those above him. Mediocrity isn't a sin around here. I don't think RV, Bobby Ray, or even Lee Jackson sits back and says to themselves "I wish UNT had the laughing stock of all 1A football programs" but I think it's the culture we have come to expect. Let me explain:
For as long as I have followed NT athletics (born in Denton in '78) there has been a prevailing notion that there were the UT's, aTm's, USC's, Michigan's of the world and then there were the NT's, ULL's, New Mexico State's of the world. NT never tried to reach for the stratosphere because we've always had so many stumbling blocks laid out ahead of us. Bad facilities. Bad fan support. Miniscule athletic endowment. People won't take us seriously. Every excuse in the book to feel and, as a byproduct, act like second class citizens. Even as a high school student in Denton NT was looked at as the "in case" institution. We've been told so long that we can't compete with the big boys that we believe it.
When our administration has looked at our athletic programs they have seen one of a few things over the years...a necessary evil, a distraction, a pet project, or an opportunity to do the "most with the least." It's this last phrase that I think haunts us. We often brag about how our teams rank "among the best in the Sun Belt conference across the board" or how we are "conference champions or runners up in X amount of sports." We have a serious case of big fish in a small pond syndrome. Hell, we even advertise that our school is the "leading university of the metroplex." It is as if we cannot come out and proclaim ourselves to be exemplary bar none at anything because we expect the requisite backlash. We are truly afraid to act and be great!!!
We can bitch, piss and moan about how DD has run this program into the ground all we want but let's not lose sight of the big picture. From what great heights has he run us into the ground from? When were we on top of the proverbial mountain to have fallen off?
What is lacking, I think, is a bold mission statement or a proclomation of where we want, expect and will not accept not reaching. Does everyone remember when RV first got here? We had quarterly meetings where he would talk of his plans to resurrect NT athletics, bring us up on the food chain and make us all proud. Then those meeting went the way of the dinosaur when the politics and reality of North Texas stared him in the face. That's not his fault. It's ours. We need to make it abundantly clear that we expect to one day go toe to toe with UT or Oklahoma and smack them in the mouth. We need to be unwavering when we say that we expect kids to list NT as their first choice when they apply for college.
But the answer isn't on this or any other message board. I can type the words "unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable....higher expectations, higher expectations, higher expectations" until I'm blue in the face and some of you have. I'll even print up the t-shirts if you want. We can all wear them to our same old decrepit stadium to watch our team lose by 50 for the next few years.
We need to communicate to our leadership that we are tied, nay married, to this university because we don't view our alma mater as the runt brother...and make it clear that if they treat it like one we will not be silent. My suggestion would be to write RV, Bobby Ray, Norval, Lee Jackson, whomever you can and tell them we want to hear and see a clear vision for where we are headed. Make it clear that hearing about things like our new logos after the fact will not be stood for anymore. Let them know that we don't consider OOC games "body bag", "canned hunt", or "paycheck" games...we look at them as stepping stones on our way up the ladder and that they had better do the same. Most of all, though, we need to be able to say in one unified voice that if they will give us the vision we will give them the means. That means our money, our time, our attendance through the growing pains. No jumping ship at the first sight of bad seas.
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Be careful, emmitt01, you'll be labeled a "shoot from the hip/loose cannon" heretic at UNT (and from some huggers on GMG.com) with such boldly written thoughts.

Last time such a treatise (similar to yours) was written a whole bunch of people broke away from the Roman Catholic Church. Well, maybe not as dramatic as that one, Emm', but you get my drift................YOU THE MAN! We just need about 10,000 more as passionate with their feelings who each and every one would request breakfast sometimes this week with Bobby Ray.

GOD BLESS TEXAS!

Edited November 29, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

drex · November 29, 2005

People gravitate to excellence. Here is a quick fix for the problems mentioned. What if the administration and selected members of the Denton business community got together and committed to one 'big time' opponent to come to Denton for football and one for basketball. If Troy can bring Mizzou to Troy, we should be able to bring a Big Twelve team to Denton. We also should be able to bring a 'big time' basketball team to Denton each year. The athletic administration has been way too timid about quality basketball teams in Denton. The SuperPit is a venue that anyone would come to if the money was right. Money is the key to this thing, but if we 'think big', I think that the Denton business community would respond. The leadership for this undertaking has got to be the UNT administration. If the business community was presented with a good plan, they would respond. If we did the forementioned, it would be a good step forward to 'break out' of our preoccupation with mediocrity.

medpilot21 · November 29, 2005

Well put Emmitt. If you run for President, you have my vote. I think the premise has always been to expect more, but confusion seems to be more prominant than reason. The perception of this university has changed some over the last few years. Winning does that for you, even in the Sunbelt. As far as expecting more from our leaders, of course. There is still a contingent of Alums who believe as you do, and want to be more than a hurdle on OU's way to the National Championship. The question is how to get to that level, and what will the fans and alums consider acceptible baby steps? (this cannot be done overnight). My version of progress was to improve facilities as finances allowed, and to go to a bowl game for the recognition and exposure. If five years ago you would have said Darrell Dickey would take North Texas to four straight Conference Championships (in ANY conference in Division-1A), and we would have a CHANCE to get to a bowl game..I would have called 911 and put a stick in your mouth to keep you from swallowing your tongue.

The fact is we are not as bad off as some think. Losing doesnt help us, but this is not damaging to the point we dont recover. We are becoming better, more traditonal fans, and expect to win every year now. That is the right direction for the fans to go here... so the first issue is "can Darrell Dickey take us where we want to go?"... well, he has four conference crowns and coach of the year awards. Why doubt him after one losing season? Because we expect more now? Okay, if we trust him, as I still do, then we wait to see if next season gets us back the SBC title and a bowl. Then the question is, if that is not enough for some...and apparently it is not, who do you bring in to do more than that? If that guy can do no more than win the Sunbelt and wins one out of four OOC games, is he a failure? If he has a losing season after a SBC championship year, do we lose faith in him too?

I do understand the arguments that have wall-papered the board for some time now, but where do our allegiances lie? One post said it as clear as can be said... we are divided right now as alums and fans. There is never a good time to have your winning expectations dashed, but I choose to trust in a head coach and AD that have shown me how important winning is to them. Losing to Tulsa in a blowout does not mean DD does not want to win. We all know that. I have no explaination for this season, as most of us do not. I can just say that I know how everyone feels.

Good post , Emm.. you see things more cleary than a lot of us on this board right now. (but be careful what you say to the Green-Guys. If you ever run for Congress, that stuff will come back to haunt you.......hehe)

GMG!!!

shaft · November 29, 2005

This just brings us back to thread about unrealistic expectations. No one expects us to go toe-to-toe with UT & OU. This institution lacks the overall resources and drive to do so. No single individual or group on individuals is responsible for that "dirve." The university is striving to have a "first class" atheletic program not the gold standard.

emmitt01 · November 29, 2005

Well put Emmitt. If you run for President, you have my vote. I think the premise has always been to expect more, but confusion seems to be more prominant than reason. The perception of this university has changed some over the last few years. Winning does that for you, even in the Sunbelt. As far as expecting more from our leaders, of course. There is still a contingent of Alums who believe as you do, and want to be more than a hurdle on OU's way to the National Championship. The question is how to get to that level, and what will the fans and alums consider acceptible baby steps? (this cannot be done overnight). My version of progress was to improve facilities as finances allowed, and to go to a bowl game for the recognition and exposure. If five years ago you would have said Darrell Dickey would take North Texas to four straight Conference Championships (in ANY conference in Division-1A), and we would have a CHANCE to get to a bowl game..I would have called 911 and put a stick in your mouth to keep you from swallowing your tongue.
The fact is we are not as bad off as some think. Losing doesnt help us, but this is not damaging to the point we dont recover. We are becoming better, more traditonal fans, and expect to win every year now. That is the right direction for the fans to go here... so the first issue is "can Darrell Dickey take us where we want to go?"... well, he has four conference crowns and coach of the year awards. Why doubt him after one losing season? Because we expect more now? Okay, if we trust him, as I still do, then we wait to see if next season gets us back the SBC title and a bowl. Then the question is, if that is not enough for some...and apparently it is not, who do you bring in to do more than that? If that guy can do no more than win the Sunbelt and wins one out of four OOC games, is he a failure? If he has a losing season after a SBC championship year, do we lose faith in him too?
I do understand the arguments that have wall-papered the board for some time now, but where do our allegiances lie? One post said it as clear as can be said... we are divided right now as alums and fans. There is never a good time to have your winning expectations dashed, but I choose to trust in a head coach and AD that have shown me how important winning is to them. Losing to Tulsa in a blowout does not mean DD does not want to win. We all know that. I have no explaination for this season, as most of us do not. I can just say that I know how everyone feels.
Good post , Emm.. you see things more cleary than a lot of us on this board right now. (but be careful what you say to the Green-Guys. If you ever run for Congress, that stuff will come back to haunt you.......hehe)
GMG!!!
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I'll put full faith and credit in the Dickey plan the day he personally comes out and says "this season is on me. This season was an embarrasment to myself, my team and this fine university. We don't do things this way around here anymore, the days of the 2 or 3 win season have passed us by. We make it out mission to go out and win every game we schedule and we won't be satisfied until we do exactly that. I'm sorry." Instead we get "we'll be lucky to stay close to this team" prior to some games and "I just think it was the 'little things' this season, I'm going to evaluate the program" after an abysmal season like this one. The head coach is the alpha and omega of where the buck stops...show me you believe it DD! The first step in walking the walk, especially for a school in our position, is the talk the talk publicly and emphatically. Southern Miss has the slogan "anyone, anywhere, anytime" not because they have mulltiple national titles to back up their bravado but because they believe in their heart of hearts that everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time and nobody is worthy of cowering to. Where is our chest thumping? When will we stop believing as an institution that we haven't lost out to so called big-time institutions before we even get started? That's what I want. I want a school where our football team takes on a motto like "come get some" towards EVERYBODY, where our student spirit organization is revolutionary in their ideas to get students off their asses and fired up about their alma mater (Talons was that once, I know), where our fans don't give a rat's ass who is coming to Fouts or the Super Pit (or the softball diamond, etc) because North Texas is lining up on one side of the ball and that makes attending a necessity!!!!

Am I dreaming of some unreachable utopia? I think we need to find out if the powers that be around here think so...cuz if they do the door works both ways.

emmitt01 · November 29, 2005

This just brings us back to thread about unrealistic expectations. No one expects us to go toe-to-toe with UT & OU. This institution lacks the overall resources and drive to do so. No single individual or group on individuals is responsible for that "dirve." The university is striving to have a "first class" atheletic program not the gold standard.
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Exactly what I was talking about. For some of us the sky isn't the limit, the limit is the sky. Why can't we go toe to toe with UT and OU? Oh yeah, it's because we've already accepted it as fact and now we're bound by our own expectations.

When I took over as President of Talons people told me "you'll never get people to wear North Texas stuff instead of UT, OU, aTm, Tech, etc because that's where they want to be." Funny thing is, I remember mailing a thousand Longhorn, Aggie, Red Raider, Baylor Bear, Miami Hurricane, etc. t-shirts to the salvation army in each school's respective home town because somebody gave the students a chance to trade in their old t-shirts, and with it their old expectations, for one from the school they attend. When RV put the plans for the athletic center to the public you could almost hear the snickering from across the state in unison. Now it sits over their as the beginning to what I believe will be launching pad for where we are headed.

Folks, anybody who has ever played sports or been in a competitive field can tell you that the first AND last step in really beating someone is making them believe they don't belong on the same field as you. As long as we accept that we are always gonna be second class we will be.

Edited November 29, 2005 by emmitt01

shaft · November 29, 2005

I think I can, I think I can.

This isn't about attitude, or preception its about incremental change. Everyone is for progress, but why derail things with impossible expectations.

emmitt01 · November 29, 2005

I think I can, I think I can.
This isn't about attitude, or preception its about incremental change. Everyone is for progress, but why derail things with impossible expectations.
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No change, not incremental or drastic, will occur until we set a goal and a big one at that. If we stop and pat ourselves on the back every time we do something that's not horrible as bad as it used to be then we'll never get where we want to go. All I'm saying is...where is the vision?

CMJ · November 29, 2005

I think as was mentioned earlier we don't have the plan on how the get to the gold standard. We want to do what Miami and Florida State did almost 3 decades ago. Go from relative obscurity to national prominence.

I don't think many of us believe we CAN'T get there(sorry shaft) the question is how long? How do we go about getting the money and resources? What are the proper goals and the proper times?

That's really what is causing the board's civil war. We can't seem to agree.

shaft · November 29, 2005

This has become a circular conversation.

We can't get anywhere without a vision.

We can't get to a vision without incremental change.

I will contend that the University does have a big picture vision for the program, and that it’s the duty of the AD to craft that vision and hire the staff to make it happen.

I will also contend that it is not always best of go around touting the big picture goal because we are so far removed. That's why I say we need to focus on incremental progress.

We definitely saw incremental progress our first three years in the Belt. Last year was a bit stagnant, but we still meet our objectives for the year. And I will contend that meeting our objective 4 straight years is still progress over where the program had been. Obviously we did not meet our goals this year, that doesn't mean its time to jump ship or change our vision statement. It does mean we need corrective action, but my guess is that's what RV and DD are talking about this week.

FirefightnRick · November 29, 2005

Good post Emmitt.

Rick

UNTSIG · November 29, 2005

maybe it's just me....you talk about having higher expectations, the sky is the limit and demanding more out of our university.....are you sure that i didn't post this? this is all that i have been saying the whole time. yeah i think that you and some other people on this board are DD lovers and because of what you just posted, i can't be. to me, DD will not take us to that next level. i'm sorry, it is nothing personal but I can't defend a 2-9 coach on one hand and then talk about higher expectations on the other....i agree 100% with what you posted and that is why you will find me happily riding the RV and Dr Pohl bandwagon but your post above is the exact reason I jumped off the DD bandwagon a long time ago.

shaft · November 29, 2005

DD already took us to the next level. Before Dickey we were a do nothing directional school floundering in our return to D1. DD took a rag-tag bunch of kids that other schools weren't interested in a put together a program that could consistently beat programs in the same situation. That consistency lead to 4 conference championships, a bowl win, and a Baylor beat down.

DD's consistency is the incremnetal step that leads to bigger things.

November 30, 2005

Emmitt is right, it is time to communicate with the university if you have not already.

Shaft is right, it is Dickey teams that previously gave a glimmer of hope for ascent. However, this current path does not lead far from where we have been for decades, not any time soon and not ever. You know, there are those in the state who believe it is foolish to have the third-wheel independent state university system, and believe instead that all the state schools should go under the auspices of UT or TAMU. If you just keep going sleepily along pretty much the same way, you may be surprised by what happens from those who actually have an agenda and execute on it aggressively.

PlummMeanGreen · November 30, 2005

Emmitt is right, it is time to communicate with the university if you have not already.
Shaft is right, it is Dickey teams that previously gave a glimmer of hope for ascent. However, this current path does not lead far from where we have been for decades, not any time soon and not ever. You know, there are those in the state who believe it is foolish to have the third-wheel independent state university system, and believe instead that all the state schools should go under the auspices of UT or TAMU. If you just keep going sleepily along pretty much the same way, you may be surprised by what happens from those who actually have an agenda and execute on it aggressively.
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A_V, most officials at large Texas public universities such as UNT give email access to its constituencies. In fact, the only high ranking NT official that I still cannot find an email address is, uh, the Chairman of the NT Board of Regents.

Anyone have it? Anyone want to link it? After all, Texas taxpayers are sponsoring much of what goes on at UNT. Hopefully, private school educated Lee Jackson hasn't been telling our people "you don't have to answer to them" type lagniape. FFR, was that pretty close to what that erroneously sent email to you said?

GBT!

Edited November 30, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

November 30, 2005

A_V, most officials at large Texas public universities such as UNT give email access to its constituencies. In fact, the only high ranking NT official that I still cannot find an email address is, uh, the Chairman of the NT Board of Regents.
Anyone have it? Anyone want to link it? After all, Texas taxpayers are sponsoring much of what goes on at UNT. Hopefully, private school educated Lee Jackson hasn't been telling our people "you don't have to answer to them" type lagniape. FFR, was that pretty close to what that erroneously sent email to you said?
GBT!
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If they get as many emails as I do, they don't read all of them. Print it and put a stamp on it, or better yet, send it FedEx; maybe it will get more attention.

I was never that offended by the whole 'we don't answer to them'. It was kind of pitiful, but I can sympathize with the challenges of authority in a corporate/institutional setting. If anything, it demonstrated that they did in fact feel pressured by the noise. I am very much against this confrontational situation, but I don't live down there where I can go camp out on the doorstep for a dialogue.

LeanMeanGreen · November 30, 2005

This just brings us back to thread about unrealistic expectations. No one expects us to go toe-to-toe with UT & OU. This institution lacks the overall resources and drive to do so. No single individual or group on individuals is responsible for that "dirve." The university is striving to have a "first class" atheletic program not the gold standard.
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Are we even at "First Class" having the 157th ranked team in the country with a 7-38 OOC record over 8 years?

I want my coach to come in here (like Hayden Fry did) and say "guys, someone in this country has to be number one, why not us" Maybe that's not completly achievable in the short term, but attitudes like that permeate through a program, and stimulate excitement & support.

Imagine that our coaches in the three main sports all have losing records in their career at NT, and we say it's ok. Why is losing ever ok? A&M didn't accept it and fired their DC, Tenn didn't accept it and fired two assistants, NT doesn't even fire the OC on one of the worst offensives in the country after he confronted a fan. Losing is accepted around here... like it or not.