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mad dog

By mad dog
in Mean Green Football

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KingDL1 Veteran

KingDL1

Posted
Posted

I chatted with a friend last week who is a 2001 graduate of the University of Texas, bemoaning our 2-9 season.  I told him how I could not believe that we lost to so many bad teams by such a wide margin, and that we lost all the respect and momentum we had gained from a great four year run through the Sun Belt.

Here’s what he said:

“Even if you won out, people might notice, but no one would care.  The difference between winning and losing for you in the Sun Belt might look huge to you, but, to everyone else in D-1 sports, it isn’t even noteworthy.  If no one noticed when you were winning conference championships, why on Earth would they notice when you lost?

You act like you were going from a national championship season to the bottom of your conference.  Matt, if you’re talking about respect, your team’s season was one game long.  If you beat LSU, people might start to talk.  Otherwise…

Beat K-State?  You mean the 5-6 team that finished last in the pitifully poor Big 12 North?

Beat Louisiana Tech? The team that is fourth in the WAC ahead of three former Sun Belt teams, including winless New Mexico State,  3-8 San Jose State, and 4-7 Hawaii?

Beat Tulsa?  The team that is leading C-USA west with a 7-4 record?

If you go 10-1 this season, you lose, because everyone expects the team with the back to back rushing champions to dominate.  Either the teams you beat are inferior and you’re supposed to win, or YOU are inferior to some very weak teams.  Like it or not, this was a lose/lose season for you guys.  It might suck, but that’s the case for all mid-major teams.  Look at what TCU has done, but they’re gone because they lost their composure for one game.  You can’t be 10-1 or 9-2 in a non-BCS conference and expect anything but a middle of the road bowl game.

In fact, I suspect that even if you had somehow found a way to beat LSU, people wouldn’t be talking about you; they’d be talking about how LSU managed to stumble.  You wouldn’t be star of the show, you’d be the “other guy” who won because LSU sucked, and not through any virtue of your own.

The perception of you guys by most outsiders is of a great team that probably has no business being in Division I-A football.  Until you start to beat some top tier teams, not just good teams, not just BCS teams, but guys that can legitimately win the National Title, no one will notice, and no one will care.  To quote Ric Flair, ‘To be the man, you’ve got to beat the man.  Whooo!’”

What do you guys think about that?

He is basically right on how the general public view UNT and the SBC. You could tear in to this post and point out this or that. And that he has a fat head UT ego and on and on. But after you rip it up and spit it out he is still basically right.

Most people I have met in the DFW area do think the SBC is a total joke, whether I am at work, with my hockey team drinking in the bar, playing volleyball, working on my plane in Lancaster, hanging out with old childhood friends, or deer hunting in west Texas it is always the same. Some will be very polite and say, "I heard UNT was doing really well in there little conference, what was the name of that conference again." or " Just wait until UNT starts playing and wining some real games against some real teams." That is life as a UNT fan period. Keeping DD right now only makes that worse for me.

The really sad part is there are people at UNT and on this board that are happy with this. But this is not how to get big donations or lots of fans in the stadium.

PerryG2480 Newbie

PerryG2480

Posted
Posted

I agree with this somewhat. If Boise St. jumps back up into the top 25 after a slightly down year...will anyone really remember the down year? UCF is having a good season; and if you ask around, the average fan still thinks of them as one of the worst teams in the country.

I agree with the poster that mentioned geography and non-BCS teams. Fans around the country aren't discussing North Texas around the water cooler. Eventually they may, but not yet. Teams on or near our level have noticed our terrible season. Everyone else will just be a little surprised to see a different team in the New Orleans Bowl.

It is vital that we bounce back with a decent season next year. Not only to climb back to the bottom rung of respectability around the nation, but also to win back some bandwagon jumpin' fair-weather fans of our own.

MeanMag Rising Star

MeanMag

Posted
Posted

He is basically right on how the general public view UNT and the SBC. You could tear in to this post and point out this or that. And that he has a fat head UT ego and on and on. But after you rip it up and spit it out he is still basically right.

Most people I have met in the DFW area do think the SBC is a total joke, whether I am at work, with my hockey team drinking in the bar, playing volleyball, working on my plane in Lancaster, hanging out with old childhood friends, or deer hunting in west Texas it is always the same. Some will be very polite and say, "I heard UNT was doing really well in there little conference, what was the name of that conference again." or " Just wait until UNT starts playing and wining some real games against some real teams." That is life as a UNT fan period. Keeping DD right now only makes that worse for me.

The really sad part is there are people at UNT and on this board that are happy with this. But this is not how to get big donations or lots of fans in the stadium.

You know, I see everyone's point about perception and what it means to donors to get rid of Dickey. I understand it to a point, but where I get lost is when we start talking about replacements. I know you guys want to give this football team a facelift with a new coach, but it's not going to change much. I doubt because we fire a coach a huge donor is going to build a stadium for us. (Unless one of the detractors on this board has a few mil burning a hole in their pocket)

So we get a new coach in here, with what little money we can offer them after we buyout Dickey's contract. What then? Do we automatically win every OOC game only to lose conference games? Do we automatically jump into the top 25 because we hired a no name coach for peanuts? "You can crap in a box and put a guarantee on the outside, but all your buying is a guaranteed piece of $#!^." A facelift does nothing.

Our best bet is with Dickey right now, even after ONE bad season. He knows these kids, he's the one who got them to come here. If someone new were to come in there is no telling what team moral would be. He has trust and relationships with these kids. I am sure we would have an equally bad or worse season next year if we did get rid of Dickey.

I don't know why dickey detractors think dickey supporters are happy with how the season turned out. Dickey deserves a right to coach next year, and I will be supporting him, with both eyes on the scoreboard. If it doesn't get any better next year, then it's open season.

Guest Aquila_Viridis

Guest Aquila_Viridis

Posted
Posted

So we get a new coach in here, with what little money we can offer them after we buyout Dickey's contract.  What then?  Do we automatically win every OOC game only to lose conference games?  Do we automatically jump into the top 25 because we hired a no name coach for peanuts?

Your assumption is that we continue to pay the same level. That would be a mistake. The school must invest; it must get the money to invest. That is not going to come from one person, and it's not going to come in on its own. They have to go out and get it.

And what will it get us? The ability to recruit at a higher level. That is why it is important to get someone recognizable.

SilverEagle Mentor

SilverEagle

Posted
Posted

Just some thoughts about some points being made in various threads.

"Dickey has earned the right, by virtue of the four SBC championships, to have more time to right the ship"

Right the ship to where? Back to being "King of the dip$hits" and losing most of our OCC games?

"Jim McIngvale(sp?) will withdraw his support if Dickey is Fired."

I'm curious. Would "Mattress Mac" tolerate his sales manager having the same sales record as Dickey's overall win/loss record? I tend to think not. So, I have to wonder why such a successful man is so enamoured with a Coach that has such a ordinary football record. I really am curious about this, because Mr. M. played under a very dynamic coach, and Mr. M. himself is a very dynamic business man.

Also, one of the things that often happens when someone steps forward to make a big donation to a program is that other "big doners" will often follow suit. Has Mr. M. noticed by now that he seems to be the only person in the "big donor" parade? I make this last observation because of Bobby Ray's comment to "Huff's" question regarding the progress of getting a new stadium built. His answer? "nowhere".

So obviously other potential "big donors" don't have the same assessment of Dickey's football program (or it's potential) that Mr. M. seems to have.

NCMeanGreen Newbie

NCMeanGreen

Posted
Posted

No offence but your friend is a stupid imbecile.  For example TCU would be the 2nd best team in the Big-12 this season.  They wouldn't have been playing for the national championship but if we use those standards then most of the Big-12 and in fact most of the BCS teams are garbage as well.

Get your green-tinted glasses off there, guy... cool.gif

eagle60 Newbie

eagle60

Posted
Posted

I was impressed by the effort the Aggies gave the Horns. Hopefully the USC will give the Horns a lesson in humility. No reason for you to cheer for the Horns just because they are from Texas. They only want to keep us "down" so you need not blow their "Horns." They don't want to ever compete on the same level with us.

Eagle1855 Newbie

Eagle1855

Posted
Posted

I was impressed by the effort the Aggies gave the Horns.    Hopefully the USC will give the Horns a lesson in humility.  No reason for you to cheer for the Horns just because they are from Texas.  They only want to keep us "down" so you need not blow their "Horns."    They don't want to ever compete on the same level with us.

thats funny. Do you think A&M wants us to be on their level? USC? give me a break. No BCS team wants other teams to draw from the talent pools they are wallowing in. To say one is better than the other is a matter of preference and nothing else. A&M SHOULD be giving that effort to the 'horns, they recruit on the same level as them. What is lousy is the fact that they have similar talent levels and cant seem to do anything with it. Dont fool yourself into believing a single BCS program in Texas would enjoy us becoming competitive.

TIgreen01 Veteran

TIgreen01

Posted
Posted

Yes, your friend is a schmo....probably also went to SMU at some point?? wink.gif

Seriously, if the only thing to be concerned about is getting CONSISTENT NATIONAL PRESS, we are a LONG way off. We got our first USA Today cover in how long this year??? Settle down...we had a bad year. It sucked....but you'd be blind to not see the strides that UNT has made in the last 5 years. We will be back...and if DD can't get us there, it sure sounds like the administration is ready to do what is necessary (from RV's comments in the DMN today).

Now....everyone take a deep breath and start rooting for ASU to win the NO Bowl...the Sun Belt NEEDS a WIN in this game.

NT80 Grand Master

NT80

Posted
Posted

The perception of you guys by most outsiders is of a great team that probably has no business being in Division I-A football.  Until you start to beat some top tier teams, not just good teams, not just BCS teams, but guys that can legitimately win the National Title, no one will notice, and no one will care.  To quote Ric Flair, ‘To be the man, you’ve got to beat the man.  Whooo!’”

What do you guys think about that?

Your friend has some points, but some Big?12 arrogance also. True college football fans will watch any game at any time and with some interest, and most will cheer for the underdog. It is bland to cheer for semi-pro teams like UT, USC, OU, et al. They are expected to win all games every year or they stink. The glory for NT is the new steps of Bowl games, upset wins, National TV games. It's much more fun to be the young stud instead of the usual old guy.

SilverEagle Mentor

SilverEagle

Posted
Posted

Here is the problem that I have with people who say that we are not even in the same universe with Texas, or most other schools like them. And that we should have more "realistic expectations".

1976 Texas 17 UNT 14 (D-1 program)

1978 Texas 26 UNT 16 (D-1 program)

1981 Texas 23 UNT 10 (D-1 program)

1983 Texas 26 UNT 6 (1-AA program)

1988 Texas 27 UNT 24 (1-AA program)

1992 Texas 33 UNT 15 (1-AA program)

2002 Texas 27 UNT 0 (D-1 program)

2004 Texas 65 UNT 0 (D-1 program)

Hayden Fry said that we could compete with ANYONE, and then went out and proved it. Corky Nelson seemed to have the same attitude, but he wasn't as "Zig Zigler"(sp?) about it as Hayden was.

Would someone please explain what happened to a fairly competitive series that we have had with Texas? Hell, we were more competitive with them when we were 1-AA!

What the hell has happened?

IslandEagle Newbie

IslandEagle

Posted
Posted

Here is the problem that I have with people who say that we are not even in the same universe with Texas, or most other schools like them. And that we should have more "realistic expectations".

1976  Texas 17  UNT 14 (D-1 program)

1978  Texas 26  UNT 16 (D-1 program)

1981  Texas 23  UNT 10 (D-1 program)

1983  Texas 26  UNT  6 (1-AA program)

1988  Texas 27  UNT 24 (1-AA program)

1992  Texas 33  UNT 15 (1-AA program)

2002  Texas 27  UNT  0 (D-1 program)

2004  Texas 65  UNT  0 (D-1 program)

Hayden Fry said that we could compete with ANYONE, and then went out and proved it. Corky Nelson seemed to have the same attitude, but he wasn't as "Zig Zigler"(sp?) about it as Hayden was.

Would someone please explain what happened to a fairly competitive series that we have had with Texas? Hell, we were more competitive with them when we were 1-AA!

What the hell has happened?

Well, one of the things that happened was that UT is miles ahead of where they were in the 80's and early 90's. Any UT fan will tell you that. The 1983 team was the best of the lot and they had absolutely NO offense, which is what cost them the National Championship. The other UT teams we played couldn't stay on the field with the 2004 and 2005 UT teams

That doesn't mean that I think we shouldn't be more competitive than we are, but you are comparing apples and oranges. I saw every single one of those games and the UT team today is far superior, even to the Campbell era teams.

SilverEagle Mentor

SilverEagle

Posted
Posted

Well, one of the things that happened was that UT is miles ahead of where they were in the 80's and early 90's. Any UT fan will tell you that. The 1983 team was the best of the lot and they had absolutely NO offense, which is what cost them the National Championship. The other UT teams we played couldn't stay on the field with the 2004 and 2005 UT teams

That doesn't mean that I think we shouldn't be more competitive than we are, but you are comparing apples and oranges. I saw every single one of those games and the UT team today is far superior, even to the Campbell era teams.

Are you saying that back in the 80's and early 90's Texas wasn't much better than a 1-AA program?

gksmith Newbie

gksmith

Posted
Posted

The BCS is what happened.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Unless you are part of the Big 6 Conferences (ACC, SEC, B12, B10, P10, BE and Notre Dame) you don't stand much of a chance to get into the big bowl games.

Every once in a while a mid-major (translation: peon team) gets a high enough ranking to go to a big money bowl (What ever the #3-6 teams in the nation play for). But the only teams that have a chance at winning a National Title are the 60+ teams in the above mentioned conferences. At $10M+ to the national champion and most of the conferences share in the money translates into almost $1M per school in the conference. UNT is no where close to getting that for WINNING the New Orleans Bowl if they kept all of the cash (SBC shares the wealth). Couple that with the fact that the SBC has only 1 bowl representative while #2-5 in each BCS conference go to other bowls…the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

The BCS has basically segregated football into another division. Might as well have those 6 conferences be D1A and the rest of D1A become D1AA and D1AA be D1AAA.

The mentality of a high school football player is geared toward the BCS. Everyone is limited on the number of scholarships they can give out. The best players will get free rides to the best schools. The next group will get free rides to the mid-majors. That leaves the kids who have to pay for school. There are a lot of kids who would rather pay for college and sit on the bench at a BCS school then pay for college and START at a mid-major.

FirefightnRick Proficient

FirefightnRick

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think Silver's comparison is just as accurate for those past years as today's BCS vs Non BCS is. People get too worked up in the hype and forget to go out and play hard, and coach to win. In the 70's there were only a few teams that got on TV during the season, and tU was one of them, and North Texas wasn't. That is the same as the difference between the BCS and non BCS of today to me. Texas got every freakin recruit money back then could buy, AND got to keep an extra 80 on scholarship just in case. In '88 we didn't think we even would score a point, much less lead most of the way. Texas was hyped to the hilt that year, as they have been every year.

Look how well Texas State played A&M this year, look how well Troy played LSU last year? So many of us have forgotten what North Texas is capable of. I won't accept it.

It's coaching and playing to win, not to get the game over with. That is the difference.

Rick

Edited by FirefightnRick
ASU-UNT Supporter Newbie

ASU-UNT Supporter

Posted
Posted

Let's face it, there is no respect for any of the schools in the Sunbelt conference. I'm an ASU graduate and in 1970 I thought that one day ASU would compete with the big boys and it hasn't happened. Both ASU and UNT have a lot of good talent that goes thru their football team and it's going to take outstanding coaching to create teams that win consistently AND to play with the big boys. I'm very surprised that ASU stumbled into the Sunbelt championship. Believe it or not, I wanted UNT to beat ASU. I get very tired of being disappointed and embarrassed by the way the ASU football program is going. I think the only way to get it ontrack is to replace the leadership (i.e. coaching staff and athletic directors) with people that can lead and motivate a consistent playing and winning tradition in an otherwise less than mediocre program. I'm sure there are a lot of high school coaches out there with the creativity and motivation to do it.

UNTLifer Grand Master

UNTLifer

Posted
Posted

I think the only way to get it ontrack is to replace the leadership (i.e. coaching staff and athletic directors) with people that can lead and motivate a consistent playing and winning tradition in an otherwise less than mediocre program.

Well, with our AD we are half way there.

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