I have lost respect

[NCMeanGreen]

I have lost the respect I had for this board.  The post and actions by many of the board posters has led me to the conclusion that there is just not much football knowledge on this board.  You want to fire a coach after one horrible year that has done things in the past four years that we use to dream of doing.  Oh, I forgot, we have an embarrising OOC record.  When you play money games that is what happens. For our OOC games, I would say our record could be a little better, but based who we have played it would be impossible to get the wins as high as most on this board think it should be.

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Do you REALLY know what you are talking about? We usually only play one, MAYBE two, $$$ games a season. Think of all the OOC games we could/should have won - TCU, S. Florida, Southern Miss, Arizona, Tulsa, FAU (before they were officially in the SBC), Memphis...the list is long.

Let's be honest, what does it truly mean nationally for us to have won the SBC 4 years in a row? WOuld not EVERYONE agree that winning the ACC every year would be a HUGE feat? Honestly, how many teams in America could beat the Troy, UL-Pick 'em, ASU, FIU, MTSU, etc. of football.

It is truly embarrassing that DD does not have a better OOC record. Give him any excuse you want, but the reality is when you can only beat teams 100-117, he really does not say a whole heck of a lot....does it?

[MGW]

                   Dickey                Last 5 yrs
vs. 1-10            0-7                    0-5
vs. 11-25           0-3                    0-2
vs. 26-50           1-8                    0-4
vs. 51-100          7-21                   5-11
vs. 101+           31-14                  26-6

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Great posts, GC. I started following UNT football my first year at UNT in 1995. There have been incredible improvements in the game atmosphere since that time, and that is basically due to RV. For that, I am a RV fan. However, RV made a bonehead decision when he decided to lock UNT into an extension w/ ole DD. Granted, I haven't seen the contract, but from what I understand it is a pretty one side deal where he is guaranteed his salary - I questioned the wisdom of this then and obviously now b/c the benefit to the university is zip, nada, cero. The benefit to DD: obvious. But for the university, it's not like you're going to buy DD's loyalty and somehow build a bond whereby if he were wildly successful it would keep him here or somehow incentivize him to not be lured away. Unfortunately, DD getting hired away is now nothing more than a dream. So we're stuck w/ him b/c UNT can't afford that many years of paying for someone not to work. (although they did pay me through college to be a courier and I never really worked).

In any event, looking at your chart, I see very little to be proud of. I've been shaped by the older posters on this and the other board whose UNT pride was shaped during the Hayden Fry days. What Fry did was demonstrate that winning can happen at NTSU, er UNT, and it can happen in a grandiose way. DD is 8-29 against teams ranked from 26-100 according to your chart. To me, that shows anything but progress. Sure, against D1AA and teams ranked worse than 100, he's pretty dang good, but that is nothing to write home about.

SMU demonstrates that it takes more than a stadium. UNT definitely has obstacles to overcome for a head coach, but my dislike for DD stems not just from the utter futility his teams put up against any and all D1A OOC teams. The unfortunate reality is that many of DD's accomplishments are little more than a facade as we've had many, many balls bounce our way in SBC play that has lead to 4 championships - does anyone remember the NMSU game that started it all off? They had the game won and blew it and UNT went on to its first bowl game since the 50s.

[catman12]

What blows me away is that many of you people think we are above the Ark. St, UL-pick 'em, MTSU, and FIU's of the world. We are still a relatively young D-1 program with probably the worst stadium in football. The fan experience at NT games is getting better because of the tailgating, but the stadium is CRAP for going to a game. You are what you are, and North Texas is just the same as all the other young programs in the Sun Belt.

Why should we expect to beat programs that are a lot further along that NT? TCU, Memphis, Southern Miss, Arizona, Colorado State, Air Force, Colorado, and even Baylor are all programs that have better stadiums, more tradition, better conference, more fan support, more donor support, more media attention, more loyal students/alums, etc....the list goes on.

No matter what any of you might have wished for or hoped for, NT was the underdog in probably 95% of all the non-conference games you all love to bitch about. By my calculations, we've won about the number we were supposed to win. While there are only about 1-2 true $$$ games each year, we are still not favored to win any of the other OOC games.

SUPPORT YOUR PROGRAM IN A POSITIVE MANNER, ALL THE BITCHING GETS OLD. WHILE DICKEY MAY NOT BE PERFECT, HE HAS DONE LOTS OF GOOD FOR MEAN GREEN FOOTBALL AND IT IS PROBABLY BECAUSE OF ALL YOU IDIOTS THAT HE BITCHES ABOUT THE SITUATION!!

[eagle60]

catman12 you apparently haven't looked around at other schools enough to know that lots of them started about with the same facilities as we have and yet they still won and built up their fan base accordingly. It isn't the people who post on this board. Think of all the people living in the Metroplex area who support college football and yet haven't been impressed enough to make the ride up to Denton.

We are not a new D1-A program and we even beat some D1-A teams when we were D1-AA years ago before the DD/RF act. You want to classify our team with the Florida duo, the Louisiana duo, and the other "dwarfs" in the SBC. How did the Florida Atlantic beat us two years in a row in just 4 and 5 years of even having a team?

Maybe you are impressed with the crap now being provided in the coaching at UNT. Apparently you are satisfied with this. Very few others are.

[NeedCoach]

What blows me away is that many of you people think we are above the Ark. St, UL-pick 'em, MTSU, and FIU's of the world.  We are still a relatively young D-1 program with probably the worst stadium in football.  The fan experience at NT games is getting better because of the tailgating, but the stadium is CRAP for going to a game.  You are what you are, and North Texas is just the same as all the other young programs in the Sun Belt.

Why should we expect to beat programs that are a lot further along that NT?  TCU, Memphis, Southern Miss, Arizona, Colorado State, Air Force, Colorado, and even Baylor are all programs that have better stadiums, more tradition, better conference, more fan support, more donor support, more media attention, more loyal students/alums, etc....the list goes on.

No matter what any of you might have wished for or hoped for, NT was the underdog in probably 95% of all the non-conference games you all love to bitch about.  By my calculations, we've won about the number we were supposed to win.  While there are only about 1-2 true $$$ games each year, we are still not favored to win any of the other OOC games. 

SUPPORT YOUR PROGRAM IN A POSITIVE MANNER, ALL THE BITCHING GETS OLD.  WHILE DICKEY MAY NOT BE PERFECT, HE HAS DONE LOTS OF GOOD FOR MEAN GREEN FOOTBALL AND IT IS PROBABLY BECAUSE OF ALL YOU IDIOTS THAT HE BITCHES ABOUT THE SITUATION!!

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You forgot to mention Boise St. & South Florida. The Bulls have no stadium, yet, they sit in the driver seat for the Big East's BCS birth in their very first season in the conference. Boise St. ,who went D1A around the same time NT did, would embarrass this team in a head-to-head matchup. Let's not forget, Idaho is a recruiting hot bed like Texas, right?

Oh and one more thing, this team has lost both games against a university that didn't even have a football program 5 years ago. FAU was 1-8 before facing NT.

Support your school with open eyes. Not blindly.

[Monkeypox]

Dickey bitches because he's not a very good coach and lacks the ability to take responsibility for his and his team's failures.

It's always "FIU is a very talented team," "we had a difficult situation," "our guys play with a lot of intensity out there, and I don't think the penalties are really a problem."

If we are, as you say, at the same level with the rest of the Belt (which many of us agree with), then Dickey hasn't done LOTS OF GOOD for this program, because it's right where it was 10 years ago and nothing has changed, except for forming a conference comprised solely of the worst Div 1-A football has to offer.

I will support my program how I see fit. If people like you were around when I was in school, we'd be happily churning away in Div 1-AA. Some people want better. But, fortunately for you guys, when DD runs this team back into the ground and we end up back there, you can talk about how awesome it is that we can beat McNeese State 7 times out of 10.

By the way, you won't get the better stadiums, more tradition, better conference, more fan support, more donor support, more media attention, more loyal students/alums, etc. unless you start beating something more than the Sun Belt. Until then, you're treading water.

[catman12]

Maybe you are impressed with the crap now being provided in the coaching at UNT. Apparently you are satisfied with this. Very few others are.

I've been very satisfied with Dickey's coaching the past 5 years. While I would love to beat TCU, Arizona, Memphis, Colorado St., Colorado, Southern Miss, etc., I don't expect to win those games. I really don't think the past four years have been that bad!

I wish Dickey would open up the offensive gameplan a little more, but you can't bitch about our results the past four years.

I will support my program how I see fit. If people like you were around when I was in school, we'd be happily churning away in Div 1-AA. Some people want better. But, fortunately for you guys, when DD runs this team back into the ground and we end up back there, you can talk about how awesome it is that we can beat McNeese State 7 times out of 10.

I would hardly say what Dickey's done the past four years would be called "running this team back into the ground". I say if we go 2-9 this season and don't win more than 4 next season, look to take the program in a different direction. Until then, we've had 4 successful seasons and 1 bad season in the last five. I say that is making progress!

[Arkstfan]

                   Dickey                Last 5 yrs
vs. 1-10            0-7                    0-5
vs. 11-25           0-3                    0-2
vs. 26-50           1-8                    0-4
vs. 51-100          7-21                   5-11
vs. 101+           31-14                  26-6

Now here's what you need to ask yourselves... where do you feel that UNT reasonably should be on a yearly basis given that it's in the Sun Belt and will therefore be dragged down by SoS no matter what they do?  I think that the 50-75 range looks like an ideal target with some variance allowed for very good and very bad years, as everyone has them.

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Hang on just a second. Lemme see if I get your argument.

The Sun Belt is weak and that drags down UNT?

UNT is 0-11 vs. Top 50 programs the last five years. Not a terrible shocker.

UNT wins over 80% of its games vs. sub-100 programs.

UNT the last five years has won only 31% of games against schools rated 51 to 100.

Since UNT hasn't lost 6 games in Sun Belt play the last five years that means someone else has beaten the Mean Green.

The numbers you post do not suggest that UNT is being drug down by the Sun Belt rather they show quite clearly that against programs that are worse, UNT generally wins, against programs rated below it and loses to programs rated above.

There are very few wins there vs. teams rated 51-100. A team rated 50 ought have a winning record against teams rated 51-100 because it will be highly rated enough to always be the favorite against them at home and a favorite against a majority on the road. Even a team rated 75 probably ought to be at least .500 against that group because it would be favored against most teams at home and a few on the road.

The results you posted don't show that. They show a team that is lower tier among the 51-100 group, not because of "Strength of Schedule" but "Strength of Results".

[Monkeypox]

Until then, we've had 4 successful seasons and 1 bad season in the last five.  I say that is making progress!

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You have some pretty low qualifications for the words "success" and "progress."

Hey, I decided to drop out of my regular classes and only take remedials. Now I'm in the 90th percentile of my class! I'm a success! And I'm making real progress, too! The first year, I couldn't figure out a bubble sheet, but neither could just about anyone else, so I was still one of the top in the class. Since figuring out the bubble sheets, though, I'm the best remedial student... at least most years.

[catman12]

I think North Texas has been in "REMEDIALS" for Division 1-A standards since we made the transition around 1995. It isn't as if we were Baylor in the Big XII (regular classes), then dropped to Sun Belt (remedials) and began kicking a$$. That would be similar to your example. We've been in the worst conference from the beginning and we didn't start out winning conference titles.

I think what we did from 2000-2004 was progress compared to what we did from 1997-1999. But that's just me!!

[rcade]

I don't know what Dickey's contract status is, but I'm in favor of giving him an extension through the 2008 season. He's the second-best coach in the history of our football program. You can't fire the guy because of one off year, as bad as it has been this season.

[LongJim]

Have to disagree on K. State. They are not a good team and should not be considered a body bag game. Also Tulsa and La. Tech were winnable, do not care if they are bowling or not, we laid 4 eggs in the OOC schedule this year.

Sad also that UTEP is a measuring stick, look where they were 2 years ago and where we were, a complete reversal. Why???

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We should have been more competitive w/Tulsa and La Tech., but they have better athletes at this point, and those were very losable games to THIS YEARS UNT team. To say that we're competitive with even a down-year KState right now is nuts.

It seems to me that a lot of UNT fans still don't seem to grasp the fact that's been mentioned over and over and over--until we get more blue-chippers at MANY positions EVERY year for SEVERAL years--and keep getting them consistently--we will continue to struggle with big OOC games. If you want to blame DD for that, by all means go ahead. I'm not convinced that's true or fair. I personally believe that it is a slow, grueling, frustrating process that sometimes seems glacial.

I will criticize DD and his staff for a few things: 1. His teams DO play very undisciplined football at times. 2. This team has been plagued by poor tackling this year. 3. I thought Meager was handcuffed and brought along too slowly--but that's a judgement thing.

The bottom line is that UNT has to get bigger, stronger, and faster. I still subscribe to the belief that this team IS young, and will get better, but UNT is only just now beginning to semi-consistently recruit above the 1AA level.

Sometimes this place reminds me of that scene in Frankenstein--I guess I just need to get my pitchfork and torch and join the march to "kill the monster".

[SilverEagle]

  The fan experience at NT games is getting better because of the tailgating, but the stadium is CRAP for going to a game.  You are what you are, and North Texas is just the same as all the other young programs in the Sun Belt.

Why should we expect to beat programs that are a lot further along that NT?  TCU, Memphis, Southern Miss, Arizona, Colorado State, Air Force, Colorado, and even Baylor are all programs that have better stadiums, more tradition, better conference, more fan support, more donor support, more media attention, more loyal students/alums, etc....the list goes on.

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I remember looking at a tape of a North Texas/UTA game in 1985. It was played at Fouts and by your standards Fouts was WORSE THAN CRAP. It was in that condition when Hayden Fry arrived in 1973. It was in that condition when Corkey Nelson arrived in 1982. Yet both coaches managed to beat big name opponents, and both coaches managed to ACTIVELY PROMOTE NORTH TEXAS FOOTBALL.

And as I have pointed out several times, Corky did it with LESS resources and LESS support from the administration.

Also, Corky and Hayden both had additional duties of being the AD as well as being the head coach.

[untbowler]

I don't know what Dickey's contract status is, but I'm in favor of giving him an extension through the 2008 season. He's the second-best coach in the history of our football program. You can't fire the guy because of one off year, as bad as it has been this season.

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I hope your kidding. You give a guy an extension when he wins games, not when he refuses to take responsibility for losses and blames it on facilities and fans.

[the green rokemi]

What DD meant (in the quote from my signature) was that NT has the most difficult situation in the conference BECAUSE he works there everyday

[Stan R]

Catman, I think I (we) agree with much of what you're saying with regards to success relative to where we are "at" in the Sun Belt, starting back into 1A, etc... DD's wins are great in conference, yadda yadda.

.... BUT!! I will not accept DD's whining about lack of support or "I have it harder than anyone in the world" or "Our fans keep giving up". Why can't you accept the success he's had but criticize the bad attitude? Why are you so willing to sweep that under the carpet when our (my opinion) greatest challenge is fan support???

[PlummMeanGreen]

First of all, LongJim, you are right, we do have some outstanding football talent at NT now, we just need annual recruiting classes that bring more of them to Denton in larger numbers.

Also, LongJim, we appreciate any new fans we get in MG Country, because God only knows how many older or veteran NT alums/fans the last 10 years or so have been alienated from their own alma mater, rudely treated with almost retaliative vindictive'ism because some NT Exes dared to not accept mediocrity (and empty seats at Fouts Field) and that after we've been told just how the SBC has revolutionized our program. Well, if that is the case, where are the rest of the 15,000 we need to fill our stadium and that after 4 bowl games sponsored by the SBC?

Well, we have new facilities you say? Yes, we do, and we are all excited about every one of those but FWIW.............what real choices did we have at UNT than to start building those facilities? Even if we were still in 1-AA, we would have had to build such facilties to stay competitive at that level. Seems the only alternative we would have had at UNT would to have become a "basketball only" school; you know, just like Lamar U who got beat by Tarleton State in a BB game last week in Beaumont?

Still, many defer to 15,000 per home game averages (and that after 4 bowl games). Granted, that beats 1,500 one might see at some SBC away games. Yet a question still remains: Just what is it that keeps King Football Texas college fans in the greater Denton area from knocking the turnstiles of Fouts field down to come in and watch aggressive, exciting, pull out all the stops and "go for the win" college football?

Also, what has made many of NT's casual fans show for many past home season opening games (save one) and during too many half times of those "well attended" home season openers & during a parking lot half time break, you see many of them getting in their cars seemedly in disgust while you over-hear many of them say "We Ain't Coming Back to Watch This" (and they usually don't).

On top of (amazingly) continuous radio broadcasted bashing of our fans/alums by DD one has to ask the question of: Why don't NT powers that be stop such broadcasted conduct aimed at everyone who has ever been connected with UNT? Such broadcasted conduct from one who is still making quite a cushy living by most American's standards and doing so w/o (in the opinion of many) any obvious special skills for one coaching at the NCAA D1-A level; except there is one saving grace for such now isn't there, because after all..........we are in the Sun Belt Conference.

Some might also venture a guess that DD's father who has an NCAA D1-A coaching history and with his father knowing many in the NCAA coach's fraternity elite; anyway, with all of that consortium of good ol' boy coachs helping a son over-come what may have been hiring obstacles at most NCAA D1-A outposts that if not for the connection of a father (and KSU connections with a then "KSU graduated" NT Athletic Director), many might be curious if the son would have gotten the NT head football coach's job. And in Mean Green Country, weren't we all first hand witness of basically an equivalence of an NT head football coach's hiring coup post-Matt Simon's firing in Denton?

QUICKS DRAW MCGRAW @ UNT? Wasn't the hirng of DD @ NT one of the fastest hirings in the history of the NCAA after Simon was fired? And (of course) quickness of that being done before an NT head football coaches selection committee of NT/Denton area "would be" committee members could be formed. You know, such committee members who would be around long after the ones doing the hiring (or the one being hired) were long gone? Not even the usual practice at a Texas public university of having the democratic process with those from every part of the NT Community helping to make a most important decision on a most important hire? You know, as in hiring arguably a Texas university's highest profile employee and one who would be getting more individual TV and radio opportunities or exposure than the UNT president or chancellor themselves?

LongJim, even in your sincere defense of some of the things that are happening this Fall at NT, you still hit on many stark truths of why many feel all this has been unravelling not just this Fall, but the last 3 Falls; and if not for our school's membership in a league which annually has problems getting the majority of its football teams above .500 , there would be no one on this forum showing any semblance of approval for the direction this present football regime is giving us, unless they are just competely content with wins over a sub .500 playing Sun Belt Conference each year.

I don't think most on this board are content with that kind of athletic existence--especially those who remember when we used to win OOC football games against some schools with some pretty damn impressive names w/o near the facilities we have now or those we will have soon in Mean Green Country.

UNT's DECISION-MAKERS? You might say that a small handful of this elite group of campus decison-makers are in their own little SBC utopian malaise of "well, this sure beats being in NCAA D1-AA, now doesn't it?" I wonder if any of that group have checked their NT football media guides to see that we beat more OOC (high profile) football teams as a NCAA 1-AA football program than we have the last 8 years in NCAA 1-A under DD? And.........no, no, no, please don't get any funny ideas of our completely giving up on all this, waving the white flag and retreating back to an NCAA 1-AA classification, either.

GOD BLESS TEXAS...

Edited November 16, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[GreenCyclone]

The numbers you post do not suggest that UNT is being drug down by the Sun Belt rather they show quite clearly that against programs that are worse, UNT generally wins, against programs rated below it and loses to programs rated above.

Your analysis is pretty spot on Arkstfan. By the way, congrats on the good season to date... closing out the season with a winning record would be a great step for your team.

This is likely way off the general topic of this thread, but here goes...

Being "dragged down by the Sun Belt" was a poor choice of words on my part. I was trying to point to the fact that playing in the Sun Belt will generate a kind of glass ceiling effect to all of its member teams as far as computer rankings are concerned. This is likely to stay in effect until at least half of the conference becomes more respectable in OoC play. Until that happens, there is a reasonable maximum ranking in the 40-50 range that any SBC team could be expected to achieve with a really excellent season (1 or 2 losses). It's only when one of the teams goes undefeated on the season (including money games, which isn't real likely to happen anytime soon) that a team will break that ceiling.

Case in point, the Marshall example which many people like to cite on this board.

'97 (29) 10-3 OoC wins against Army, Western Illinois

'98 (49) 12-1 OoC wins against Troy, South Carolina, Wofford, Louisville

'99 (11) 13-0 OoC wins against Clemson, Liberty, Temple, Brigham Young

'00 (64) 8-5 OoC wins against SE Missouri State, Cincinnati

They prove that you don't have to beat the big boys OoC to break through, and you don't even need to win them all; you just have to beat someone. Which you're right, UNT has not been consistently doing in the Dickey era so they're largely getting the ranking they deserve. You'll note that in 2002 & 2003, though, that they were doing that... most notably with the bowl win in 2002.

[Got5onIt]

I remember looking at a tape of a North Texas/UTA game in 1985. It was played at Fouts and by your standards Fouts was WORSE THAN CRAP.  It was in that condition when Hayden Fry arrived in 1973. It was in that condition when Corkey Nelson arrived in 1982. Yet both coaches managed to beat big name opponents, and both coaches managed to ACTIVELY PROMOTE NORTH TEXAS FOOTBALL.

And as I have pointed out several times, Corky did it with LESS resources and LESS support from the administration. 

Also, Corky and Hayden both had additional duties of being the AD as well as being the head coach.

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Fouts was WORSE 20 years ago?

[ipEAGLE]

Fouts was WORSE 20 years ago?  

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From what I heard its improved a lot... still not the best, but its not terrible.

[eagle60]

When I was at NT the parking lot at Fouts was all dirt, and had to be plowed up to create rows. After a rain storm the trip back to the car was nasty!

[LongJim]

God only knows how many older or veteran NT alums/fans the last 10 years or so have been alienated from their own alma mater, rudely treated with almost retaliative vindictive'ism because some NT Exes dared to not accept mediocrity (and empty seats at Fouts Field) and that after we've been told just how the SBC has revolutionized our program. 

I can't speak to this, because many of you are much closer to the program, that's for sure. I certainly don't know why Fouts isn't packed every Saturday, particularly in a town like Denton, which let's face it, has limited entertainment opportunities in-town.

Well, we have new facilities you say? Yes, we do, and we are all excited about every one of those but FWIW.............what real choices did we have at UNT than to start building those facilities?  Even if we were still in 1-AA, we would have had to build such facilties to stay competitive at that level. 

I totally agree with this, and you're absolutely right. It was way past due. But WOULD it have happened without the recent success that UNT Football has enjoyed?

Just what is it that keeps King Football Texas college fans in the greater Denton area from knocking the turnstiles of Fouts field down to come in and watch aggressive, exciting, pull out all the stops and "go for the win"  college football? 

Beats me. But I think it's fair to note though, that SMU and TCU have trouble draw-ring fans as well. SMU has been pathetic for a while, while TCU has had great seasons recently and still can get "only" 30-32K to show up at AC while going 10-1 and winning their conference. I don't think it's specific to UNT.

Also, what has made many of NT's casual fans show for many past home season opening games (save one) and during too many half times of those "well attended" home season openers & during a parking lot half time break, you see many of them getting in their cars seemedly in disgust while you over-hear many of them say "We Ain't Coming Back to Watch This" (and they usually don't). 

All I can say to that is what John Madden frequently says: "Winning is a great deodorant." The MG failed in that regard this year--no question, but should UNT go this year's Texas Tech route and schedule 1AA teams to (hopefully) beat up on, or play an "anytime, anwhere" schedule that might draw more fans, but get our aces beat in the process?

On top of (amazingly) continuous radio broadcasted bashing of our fans/alums by DD one has to ask the question of:  Why don't NT powers that be stop such broadcasted conduct aimed at everyone who has ever been connected with UNT?   

Would someone please quote more of these comments? The only one I can ever find is the "I work here EVERY day.." thing that's been beaten into the ground. If DD is alienating contributors or alumni, that's not a good thing, but this is beginning to smell like the Cardiff Giant. (Those of you with first-hand quotes, post them. I'm only saying this because I haven't heard this "negativity", but maybe I frequent the wrong haunts.) On the other hand, sometimes people like to whine about people not pumping enough sunshine. Again, I may be wrong, so correct me if so. Gently please.

Some might also venture a guess that DD's father who has an NCAA D1-A coaching history and with his father knowing many in the NCAA coach's fraternity elite; anyway, with all of that consortium of good ol' boy coachs helping a son over-come what may have been hiring obstacles at most NCAA D1-A outposts that if not for the connection of a father (and KSU connections with a then "KSU graduated" NT Athletic Director), many might be curious if the son would have gotten the NT head football coach's job.  And in Mean Green Country, weren't we all first hand witness of basically an equivalence of an NT head football coach's hiring coup post-Matt Simon's firing in Denton? 

Is that known as fact? If so, what's the big surprise? You don't think that happens EVERY DAY in NCAA DI football? Bowdens? Shulas? Nepotism and favoritism is everywhere. This isn't the X-Files.

QUICKS DRAW MCGRAW @ UNT?    Wasn't the hirng of DD @ NT one of the fastest hirings in the history of the NCAA after Simon was fired?  And (of course) quickness of that being done before an NT head football coaches selection committee of NT/Denton area "would be"  committee members could be formed.  You know, such committee members who would be around long after the ones doing the hiring (or the one being hired) were long gone?  Not even the usual practice at a Texas public university of having the democratic process with those from every part of the NT Community helping to make a most important decision on a most important hire?  You know, as in hiring arguably a Texas university's highest profile employee and one who would be getting more individual TV and radio opportunities or exposure than the UNT president or chancellor themselves?

Has all this just come out? Where was the outrage 4 years ago???? Ahh. UNT was winning. SHHH!!

LongJim, even in your sincere defense of some of the things that are happening this Fall at NT, you still hit on many stark truths of why many feel all this has been unravelling not just this Fall, but the last 3 Falls...I don't think most on this board are content with that kind of athletic existence--especially those who remember when we used to win OOC football games against some schools with some pretty damn impressive names w/o near the facilities we have now or those we will have soon in Mean Green Country. 

For the record: I don't disagree with your feelings, and I can understand them. I realize that you and others definitely have more "inside info" than a lot of us. I for one, am NOT content with the performance this year. UNT has definitely underachieved, however, IMO the OOC success will come as recruiting continues to improve. Now whether that will happen with "Devil Dickey" or not, who knows? I just know that it WON'T be overnight, and I'm not certain that firing DD isn't throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Got5onIt]

  Now whether that will happen with "Devil Dickey" or not, who knows?  I just know that it WON'T be overnight, and I'm not certain that firing DD isn't throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

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LOL!!!

"Devil Dickey".

Edited November 16, 2005 by Got5onIt

[PlummMeanGreen]

I can't speak to this, because many of you are much closer to the program, that's for sure.  I certainly don't know why Fouts isn't packed every Saturday, particularly in a town like Denton, which let's face it, has limited entertainment opportunities in-town.

I totally agree with this, and you're absolutely right.  It was way past due.  But WOULD it have happened without the recent success that UNT Football has enjoyed?

Beats me.  But I think it's fair to note though, that SMU and TCU have trouble draw-ring fans as well.  SMU has been pathetic for a while, while TCU has had great seasons recently and still can get "only" 30-32K to show up at AC while going 10-1 and winning their conference.  I don't think it's specific to UNT.

All I can say to that is what John Madden frequently says:  "Winning is a great deodorant."  The MG failed in that regard this year--no question, but should UNT go this year's Texas Tech route and schedule 1AA teams to (hopefully) beat up on, or play an "anytime, anwhere" schedule that might draw more fans, but get our aces beat in the process?

Would someone please quote more of these comments?  The only one I can ever find is the "I work here EVERY day.." thing that's been beaten into the ground.  If DD is alienating contributors or alumni, that's not a good thing, but this is beginning to smell like the Cardiff Giant.  (Those of you with first-hand quotes, post them.  I'm only saying this because I haven't heard this "negativity", but maybe I frequent the wrong haunts.)  On the other hand, sometimes people like to whine about people not pumping enough sunshine.  Again, I may be wrong, so correct me if so.  Gently please.  

  Is that known as fact?  If so, what's the big surprise?  You don't think that happens EVERY DAY in NCAA DI football?  Bowdens?  Shulas?  Nepotism and favoritism is everywhere.  This isn't the X-Files.  

Has all this just come out?  Where was the outrage 4 years ago????      Ahh.  UNT was winning.  SHHH!!  

For the record:  I don't disagree with your feelings, and I can understand them.  I realize that you and others definitely have more "inside info" than a lot of us.  I for one, am NOT content with the performance this year.  UNT has definitely underachieved, however, IMO the OOC success will come as recruiting continues to improve.  Now whether that will happen with "Devil Dickey" or not, who knows?  I just know that it WON'T be overnight, and I'm not certain that firing DD isn't throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  

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You mention DD having OOC success overnight? LJ, I respectfully submit to you that DD is now in his "8'th" year at UNT. Some of us don't have too many over-nights left if his OOC successes come in increments of every 8 years or so!

Devil Dickey?!?!? That's too funny..........but not really, I think most of us think DD is really a pretty decent human being who has most definitley not fallen from grace to that status.

Again, my concern is about what I see as a spiraling downward of momentum the last 3 years while we seem to have settled for setting low goals during each of those 3 years. I once heard Dr. Norman Vincent Peale say over in Dallas: "If you set low goals, you certainly have a good chance of reaching them."

It's been said before, but if the SBC football champion does not annually beat the 4'th place CUSA team that they offer to us as the SBC football champion's opponent each December, then one might suggest that that program is not progressing much more than the level of the conference its playing in?

Devil Dickey? Obviously, you, too, have been watching Showtime reruns of "Dickey Roberts: Child Star" or whatever the title; you know, the part of the movie when the family dog digs up their pushy neigbors dead rabbit who they then surname: DEVIL RABBIT?!?!?

Seriously, though, LongJim, you fit the very demographic of the kind of Mean Green fan that resides in Denton County who has gone to another school, (UT-Austin, in your case) that many of us on this board have said forever are out there for the pickin' (so to speak) to become Mean Green football fans. There are a whole bunch of you out there for sure in our alma mater's home county. What may surprise some is that there are more people who live in Denton County than what one newspaper said lived in the "in city limits" population of New Orleans (and that before Katrina).

The North Texas (DFW) Metroplex is a major league sports market, though, and at UNT we are just going to have to deliver a major sports product for all this to work. People who live and work in major sports markets (such as the almost 6 million citizen populated North Texas Metroplex) do not won't to align themselves with anything that appears NCAA D1-AA'ish. or small time.

And certainly, I'm not saying NT will ever have the athletic budgets of UT, TAMU, Michigan, USC, etc, etc, etc, but neither do a whole bunch of other schools who are members of the BCS's top 6 conferences. UNT has the potential to be a Top 25 school any year and I think some of the MAC schools have shown that to not be impossible; but right now, we are a long ways from receiving Top 25 consideration.

And speaking of (chasing) rabbits here?!?!? Sorry, but this football season has me a bit more disoriented than I normally am as it is.

GOD BLESS TEXAS...

Edited November 17, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[FirefightnRick]

To say that we're competitive with even a down-year KState right now is nuts.

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I could believe that if not for FIU showing us that even a team with basically nothing could be competitive with K State this year two weekds prior to our game against the Wildcats.

By the way Long Jim, you get an A+ and this friday off for being able to hang as long as you did with Plumm's post above.

Rick

Edited November 17, 2005 by FirefightnRick