I have lost respect

[medpilot21]

I have lost the respect I had for this board.  The post and actions by many of the board posters has led me to the conclusion that there is just not much football knowledge on this board.  You want to fire a coach after one horrible year that has done things in the past four years that we use to dream of doing.  Oh, I forgot, we have an embarrising OOC record.  When you play money games that is what happens. For our OOC games, I would say our record could be a little better, but based who we have played it would be impossible to get the wins as high as most on this board think it should be.

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Freakin THANK YOU!!!! I was beginning to think some people had jumped off the band wagon for one losing season? Support is starting to show again for our FOUR TIME coach of the year, and that is a good thing. I know we are all very opinionated fans and alums, and I'm actually glad we have that. (better than the indifference we had a few years ago) We need to face a little reality here. Yes, this year has sucked...but it happens to every team. Everyone who is upset with Dickey and the play calling is right to feel that way, but lets not get crazy and fire a coach of this caliber for one down year? Let's play this season out and look at the upcoming season for improvements. I honestly think we get back in the Title hunt next season. I also would like a win at homecoming, so I'll be there with most of you...looking for a win. But I will support DD win or lose. My New Orleans trips were all pretty good. (especially Harrah's) I dont remember being with this team at a Bowl Game before DD got here? Success gets him another year to right this ship. Say what you want about OOC wins or lossess, but a conference title is a conference title.

Darrell Dickey gave us four in a row... and I havent forgotten.

GMG!!!

(I know, I'll read the emails when they get here)

[FirefightnRick]

Freakin THANK YOU!!!! I was beginning to think some people had jumped off the band wagon for one losing season?

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I don't believe you've had the opportunity to judge what the bandwagoners will do just yet. If Nov 19th isn't any indication, Nov 26th will certainly be.

Rick

[meangreanmick]

I have lost the respect I had for this board.  The post and actions by many of the board posters has led me to the conclusion that there is just not much football knowledge on this board.  You want to fire a coach after one horrible year that has done things in the past four years that we use to dream of doing.  Oh, I forgot, we have an embarrising OOC record.  When you play money games that is what happens. For our OOC games, I would say our record could be a little better, but based who we have played it would be impossible to get the wins as high as most on this board think it should be.

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I am with you bigdaddy. You forgot a few of the rules of some of our posters:

1. All you have to do is just expect it and it will happen. Until it happens, trash the coaches, team and don't support them, that will bring your expectations to reality. 2. Never, ever be supportive when your team is struggling

3. All you have to do is throw the ball all over the field and that will be entertaining and you will win all your games, just like Tex Tech - except when they play Texas, OK State, etc, etc.

[H-towngreen]

Plumm your right about Fort Bend it is a great place to live. Although it is now basically been swallowed up by Houston, as the sprawl is now right at the Brazos. Unfortunetly the Imperial plant closed about 3 yrs ago. It's all economics there were a couple of other plants right on the coast which made it cheaper to operate.

As for La. Tech and Tulsa. CFN has Tulsa coming down to the Fort Worth Bowl and ESPN has them in either FW or Hawaii. CFN has La. Tech mentioned as possible for the Houston Bowl. I was under the impression that the WAC had 3 bowl tie-ins, as they are in 3rd at the moment. But they actually have 2 with a 3rd option for the GMAC which they share the option with the MAC. Being in Detroit they ususally go for the MAC.

I think that both are better clubs then we are giving them credit, especially Tulsa. Of course I would have liked to have seen better performences against them.

[risinggreen]

Plumm your right about Fort Bend it is a great place to live. Although it is now basically been swallowed up by Houston, as the sprawl is now right at the Brazos. Unfortunetly the Imperial plant closed about 3 yrs ago. It's all economics there were a couple of other plants right on the coast which made it cheaper to operate.

As for La. Tech and Tulsa. CFN has Tulsa coming down to the Fort Worth Bowl and ESPN has them in either FW or Hawaii. CFN has La. Tech mentioned as possible for the Houston Bowl. I was under the impression that the WAC had 3 bowl tie-ins, as they are in 3rd at the moment. But they actually have 2 with a 3rd option for the GMAC which they share the option with the MAC. Being in Detroit they ususally go for the MAC.

I think that both are better clubs then we are giving them credit, especially Tulsa. Of course I would have liked to have seen better performences against them.

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The urban sprawl reaching the Brazos is kind of a sad thing for me. I grew up around West (Southwest) Houston and back then the Brazos at 59 was totally in the middle of nowhere. I enjoyed many a camping/canoeing trip in that area over the years. Also, the field trips to the sugar plant were kind of a regular thing in grade school. Oh well, the same kind of thing has happened in North Texas and certainly in the Hill Country. Big City "Outdoorsy" people just have to go a little further now to enjoy the outdoors.

[UNT_92_Fan]

anyone seen that dead horse pic someone put up during the summer when the running back or QB threads showed up.....

[SilverEagle]

Say what you want about OOC wins or lossess, but a conference title is a conference title.

Darrell Dickey gave us four in a row... and I havent forgotten.

GMG!!!

(I know, I'll read the emails when they get here)

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Since you've given blanket permission, then I'll say something. Our lack of OCC wins, (and I don't mean wins over UT or KState or OU. I mean lack of wins over the FAU's of the world) have just about cancelled out any, and all, credibility that our SBC championships have given us. We can celebrate our SBC championships, and the trips to the NO bowl (but ONLY the trips) inside our cloistered little football world, but the rest of the football world is not impressed.

As a result, we have almost no credibility with the recruits out there. And as a result of that, our level play will just about always stay the same....if we're lucky.

Edited November 15, 2005 by SilverEagle

[flyonthewall]

Now Welcome two coaches to the board

Big Daddy = offensive line coach (his wifes nickname for him)

fake lonnie finch = Kenny Evans (fake defensive coordinator)

[KingDL1]

[TIgreen01]

Since you've given blanket permission, then I'll say something. Our lack of OCC wins, (and I don't mean wins over UT or KState or OU. I mean lack of wins over the FAU's of the world) have just about cancelled out any, and all, credibility that our SBC championships have given us. We can celebrate our SBC championships, and the trips to the NO bowl (but ONLY the trips) inside our cloistered little football world, but the rest of the football world is not impressed.

As a result, we have almost no credibility with the recruits out there. And as a result of that, our level play will just about always stay the same....if we're lucky.

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Dang...that last part about recruits is pretty grim. I don't think that is true....at least listening to the parents of current players who post on the board. I would occassionally like to see us go after some bigger name players--if for nothing more than to get our name out--but what do I know about recruiting?! Do you have "sources" that back up your claim?

[UNTLifer]

Everyone who is upset with Dickey and the play calling is right to feel that way, but lets not get crazy and fire a coach of this caliber for one down year?

(I know, I'll read the emails when they get here)

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"A coach of this caliber?" Please explain.

meangreenmike, I have been critical of DD and his offense for years, but to answer your points:

1. I have supported this program in one way or another since 1968 and will continue to do so.

2. Being around since 1968, I've seen struggling that I hope many of you never get to see. I will continue to support NT, but I don't have to like the fact that our coach bad mouths the fans, facilities and continues to state how tough a situation we have here, whatever that means.

3. I'm not asking DD to throw the ball all over the field just not be so predictable. When new fans show up and are calling the plays from the stands then you know the opposing coaches aren't having too difficult of a time figuring things out.

My problem, NT is the 4th largest university in Texas in the middle of the Metroplex and has the potential to be greater than a bottom rung D1 program. DD has made a living off of beating the teams ranked 100 or below in D1. When there are only 117 D1 teams, that is not that impressive.

[UNTSIG]

Ok the dead horse threads....those are just pretty stupid. What the hell else do you want everyone to discuss? I mean do we have some "big games" coming up sometime soon? Do we have any potential "player of the year" canidates on this team? How about where to stay in New Orleans...are we going there this year? How about the future of the program? Oh wait that is what we are discussing....if you think people are beating a dead horse, then stop reading it!

[PlummMeanGreen]

"A coach of this caliber?"  Please explain.

meangreenmike, I have been critical of DD and his offense for years, but to answer your points:

1.  I have supported this program in one way or another since 1968 and will continue to do so.

2.  Being around since 1968, I've seen struggling that I hope many of you never get to see.  I will continue to support NT, but I don't have to like the fact that our coach bad mouths the fans, facilities and continues to state how tough a situation we have here, whatever that means.

3.  I'm not asking DD to throw the ball all over the field just not be so predictable.  When new fans show up and are calling the plays from the stands then you know the opposing coaches aren't having too difficult of a time figuring things out.

My problem, NT is the 4th largest university in Texas in the middle of the Metroplex and has the potential to be greater than a bottom rung D1 program.  DD has made a living off of beating the teams ranked 100 or below in D1.  When there are only 117 D1 teams, that is not that impressive.

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Your very last paragraph is the one I don't understand why so many are being blind-sided as far as all those 100 or below wins that have padded DD's wins.

I'm also jealous, UNTLifer that you got to see the Mean Green team that all but beat Arkansas in 1968 and then that same Hog's team (with basically all the same players Joe Greene & Gang all but beat); anyway, it was that same Arkansas team who played the Texas Longhorns the followng Fall in what national sportswriters called "the Game of the Century." That game was for the 1969 NCAA National Collegiate Footballl Championship, of course.

Wonder what all the Mean Green players from that 1968 team who are still with us think about who we are having to beat up on to be bowl elgible?

Again, this is not about a personality , this is all about business or how the heck do we market all this in 2006? I've already spoken to 2 of our best longtime $upporter$ who say they can't support this if DD is still leading this football program. Now we can have posters of GMG.com get caught up in the emotional aspects about this, but this is still all about the bottom line: Butts in seats and Mean Green Club donations and will those numbers grow in 2006? NOTE: Folks, there is a big chance we will fall under the NCAA mandated attendance criteria of 15,000 per home game this Fall AND..........after 3 bowl games before the 2004 season, we barely were above the 15,000 even then. So the question is: Why isn't this football program catching the imagination of Joe Q Fan? Some of you have been answering that question for a long time.

DD's overall record right now before we play the last 2 games of this season are 39 Wins's & 53 Losses. Does anyone see that differential improving that dramatically in light of the fact of how the rest of the SBC handled us this year and will all be improving across the board in the next few years, too? Anyone think FAU (which I think is still actually ranked as a 1-AA school along with FIU who we barely beat even with their 8 turnovers); anyway, does anyone see FAU's Coach Howard Schenllenberger's program retreating or going backwards even though they have only won 2 games this Fall (with NT being one of those wins)?

But still...........it will boil down to dollars and cents; it will boil down to NT alums, NT fans & NT students approval ratings of all this in 2006 with too many who will unfortunately use 2005 as their measuring stick. You see, the kind of NT fans we need to fill Fouts Field have memories that are short in some areas, like in the summer of 2006 when we start trying to sell season tickets and increase Mean Green Club membership many of our new prospective fans will ask when approached: "Well just how did they do in 2005 before I invest into any of this" OR.................. "Well, I did listen to many of the NT games on radio the last few years, but I couldn't undertand why the NT head football coach kept complaining about too many things unrelated to the interview and even getting all over the very ones who I assume were supporting his teams buying season tickets and joining its, what do you call it, Mean Green Club?

Edited November 15, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[TIgreen01]

Yes...agree with UNTLifer and Plumm (for once!).....to me, the most telling quote of the season is the one GMoney pointed out a few weeks back after watching the LSU coaches show after our game with them. Les Miles actually said that they would play a better team in their next game (Appalachian State). LSU beat App St. 24-0. Wasn't just coaches speak, we are less respected than I-AA Appalachian State.....less respected in the COACHING WORLD, let alone by the fans...

[PlummMeanGreen]

Yes...agree with UNTLifer and Plumm (for once!).....to me, the most telling quote of the season is the one GMoney pointed out a few weeks back after watching the LSU coaches show after our game with them.  Les Miles actually said that they would play a better team in their next game (Appalachian State).  LSU beat App St. 24-0.  Wasn't just coaches speak, we are less respected than I-AA Appalachian State.....less respected in the COACHING WORLD, let alone by the fans...

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Now come on, TIgreen, you didn't like my "hot dogs, motherhood, apple pie and Cheverlet" patriotic post around last 4'th of July?!?!

AND irony of ironies.....Appalachian State's head football coach is former NT coach Jerry Moore. (And no, that is not a "draft Jerry Moore" to be NT's new head football coach should that job become available anytime soon, either).

I missed GMoney's post on the quotes from the LSU coach, thanks for bringing it back up, TIgreen.

GOD BLESS TEXAS!

[TIgreen01]

Now come on, TIgreen, you didn't like my "hot dogs, motherhood, apple pie and Cheverlet" patriotic post around last 4'th of July?!?!

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Well, to be fair, it's not that I don't usually AGREE with you....but I never can make it far enough through most of your posts to decide whether or not I have a position one way or another.

Sorry to bring back up such a "downer" quote, though.....that comment by Les Miles gave me flashbacks to 2001--post ULM....where I was certain that we were the worst football program in the country....little did I know how the team would respond....

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I am optimistic---- after all there are three teams that score less points per game than we: ......Miss. St., Temple and Buffalo.......AND ...... there is even one team that gains less yards per game than we do:..... Temple.

Where is the the optimism???....Here: We will do better next year!!!!

________________________________

Inside comment to TI-green...Hello El Gado.!!!

Edited November 15, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNTLifer]

I'm also jealous, UNTLifer that you got to see the Mean Green team that all but beat Arkansas in 1968

PMG...I was 2 1/2 in 1968. My parents moved to Denton in 1965, and I was born shortly thereafter. I don't have many memories of the first games I was brought to in 1968, but I have been attending/listening ever since, and can't think of supporting another team.

[GreenCyclone]

Hi all,

You can see by my profile that I've been lurking a long time 'round these parts. I've been following the UNT program from a distance since 2001 when I adopted it as my PS2 NCAA Football team of choice. I chose the Mean Green because my brand-new girlfriend of the time (now my wife) had gone there her first two years of school, and my own school had already been taken.

As an outside observer, hopefully it's all right if I offer my .02.

It's true that during the Dickey era UNT has feasted primarily on teams in the lower echelon of I-A ball. To cite some numbers from Kenneth Massey's MOV ratings... (I like Massey's ratings a lot, but your mileage may vary seeing as how it's one of those durn computers that's always messing everything up.)

                   Dickey                Last 5 yrs
vs. 1-10            0-7                    0-5
vs. 11-25           0-3                    0-2
vs. 26-50           1-8                    0-4
vs. 51-100          7-21                   5-11
vs. 101+           31-14                  26-6

And as a result, UNT's end of season rankings have been pretty low:

'98 (112), '99 (141), '00 (151), '01 (109), '02 (54), '03 (74), '04 (93), '05 to date (171)

Now here's what you need to ask yourselves... where do you feel that UNT reasonably should be on a yearly basis given that it's in the Sun Belt and will therefore be dragged down by SoS no matter what they do? I think that the 50-75 range looks like an ideal target with some variance allowed for very good and very bad years, as everyone has them.

As an alum of another long-suffering football program (Iowa State), I have seen first hand what it's like on the long, hard road to respect. I was lucky enough to go to school at a time when both the football and basketball programs rose up out of their doldrums to become real players in the Big 12. For me, 7-8 wins a year, a bowl trip, and a finish in the 25-50 range is a-ok with me. So imagine my horror when we went 2-9 in 2003 after a few years of decent success.

I'm here to tell you that you can bounce back from this, and Darrell Dickey can be the guy to do it. There have been times over the years that I have questioned ISU's decision to stick with our coach (who once Snyder retires will be the longest-tenured Big 12 coach), but the administration has stayed the course and has been rewarded.

Yes, that 171 ranking looks bad, but UNT has been through a lot this year with injury, graduation, and especially the death of Drew Smith. Any program outside of the top 20 would have a hard time if they had to start their intended 3rd-string QB on a regular basis. If the Mean Green doesn't bounce back to the top of the Belt next year (especially if Flanigan's gone), I'll punch myself in the face. And if I have to punch myself in the face, then it just might be time to show Darrell the door.

Bad years happen to good programs. Take heart, this is just one of those.

[GreenCyclone]

Whoops, forgot to really talk about the records I posted back there.

As I was saying... yes, it's true that most of Dickey's wins have come against teams in the 101+ category, but well... that's who the Sun Belt is right now. You can't expect UNT to beat teams that it doesn't really play. If the Belt raises its play across the board then UNT's profile will increase, too, much like what the MAC has done over the past 4-5 years.

I would agree that it would be nice if UNT increased its performance against that middle tier of teams (51-100), and they had been doing that up until this season. From 2002 to 2004, UNT was 4-4 against teams in that range... not too shabby.

It all depends on what you want out of your program... if you want to go the long, hard road of building a solid program I'd say you've merely hit a slight speed bump along the way. If you're looking for instant gratification and national notoriety then the majority of you are right... you'll have to go the route of the wide open offense: Houston, Marshall, Utah, Miami (Ohio), Bowling Green, Boise State all had them at their time of prominence. You'll do well to note that not all of them are doing so hot anymore.

[UNTLifer]

GreenCyclone, thank you for your comments and welcome to the board.

Now back to the point of this thread:

I have lost respect for North Texas fans that accept a coach that can't say one good thing about the program, the facilities or the fans and has no discipline.

BTW, DD always says the "situation here is more difficult than anyone knows." Has he ever elaborated?

[NT Drummer]

The urban sprawl reaching the Brazos is kind of a sad thing for me. I grew up around West (Southwest) Houston and back then the Brazos at 59 was totally in the middle of nowhere. I enjoyed many a camping/canoeing trip in that area over the years. Also, the  field trips to the sugar plant were kind of a regular thing in grade school. Oh well, the same kind of thing has happened in North Texas and certainly in the Hill Country. Big City  "Outdoorsy" people just have to go a little further now to enjoy the outdoors.

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Hate to tell you, but the sprawl is reaching Richmond/Rosenberg now. And there's a UH satellite campus at 59 just before the Brazos - just one building now, but Wharton County JC is going to build a building there soon, and eventually I think it will become a separate school like UH - Clear Lake or UH - Victoria..

[GreenCyclone]

I have lost respect for North Texas fans that accept a coach that can't say one good thing about the program, the facilities or the fans and has no discipline.

BTW, DD always says the "situation here is more difficult than anyone knows."  Has he ever elaborated?

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Yeah, I figured this would come up... I was obviously looking at things from purely a numbers perspective and seeing what I could do to bolster all the people that are down on Dickey.

In reality, though, this is where my UNT/ISU comparison falls terribly flat. Dan McCarney, our coach, has been a tireless champion of all things Iowa State and a terrific salesman the whole time he's been there. He's always been complimentary of our fans, even when there weren't all that many in the beginning.

It's one thing to play the Rodney Dangerfield card in the locker room, but you can't do that to the people who are actually supporting your program.

[PlummMeanGreen]

GreenCyclone, thank you for your comments and welcome to the board.

Now back to the point of this thread:

I have lost respect for North Texas fans that accept a coach that can't say one good thing about the program, the facilities or the fans and has no discipline.

BTW, DD always says the "situation here is more difficult than anyone knows."  Has he ever elaborated?

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UNTLifer, I had a "casual" NT fan and friend come up last year to a game and he came in his own vehicle. After the game (which we won) I told him on on our way to the Fouts parking lot to turn his radio on to 100.7 FM KWRD for the M.G.R.N's post game interview with DD.

When we all arrived back in FW for our little group's post-game meal, I asked our fellow NT casual fan/alum this: "What did you think of the post game radio show with DD?"

Well, I will swear this on my sainted dear mother's last resting place that he responded with pretty close to this: "Good gosh! Why is the North Texas coach so down on everything at NT and especially the fans?" I told him this was only par for the course with most post game radio interviews George Dunham had with DD in recent years.

THEN................. one radio interview that chapped many of us the most with DD was when he was on the ESPN national radio broadcast for about a 5 minute interview and I know we all thought to ourselves, "what an opportunity to "Spread the Good News" of whats going on in Mean Green Country, that is, about all the construction that was planned, that was going on at the time of that interview and would eventually culminate with a new stadium?" Well.............as most of you will probably remember, no dice on that for sure and if memory even serves me correct, I think he even went into the "woe is us at NT" diatribe.

I do recall once that ESPN national radio interview with DD was over wanting to chunk my radio thru the bedroom window with him missing such a golden selling opportunity for our alma mater (and his employer). So............DD Capital Remaining @ NT? $0.00

I'm sorry, but the coaching performance against the 2 SBC 1-AA Florida schools both of which had opened football operations only 5 years earlier was the straw that broke the camel's back with this NT alum, ie, an alum who tried to support what the man was doing best he could while pissing off many NT friends even because of that. No more..........

Now who wants to volunteer to be NT's Athletic Marketing Guru for the 2006 football campaign under present conditions coupled with so many public relation gaffes from the football staff in recent years?

GOD BLESS TEXAS!

Edited November 16, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[ipEAGLE]

Great post. IS ANYONE LISTENING?!!!!!????!?!!!!!