Ask and Ye Shall receive.....

untgirl04 · November 14, 2005

I don't think anyone on this board here is advocating giving up on the Mean Green. Simply put, we expect better things. I won't be happy until North Texas does win a National title. Why in the world shouldn't we? I don't expect that to be next season, but I certainly expect our team to continuously improve.

I think what frustrates most of us on the board is the lack of improvement we've seen over the past few years. Yes, we've won, but we haven't been getting any better - our competition just wasn't any good either. We still see 2-3 personal foul calls per game in stupid situations, and we still see poor time management by our coaches. I think most everyone here would lay off the fire DD bandwagon a bit if DD would come out and say "our players lack discipline and I'm going to do my best to fix it" or "man, we screwed up today, but the players deserve better and my staff and I are going to make it right." Instead, all we hear is sunshine about how we're a "young" team with so many difficult obstacles to overcome.

We're realists who support this team. Many have been supporting this team and university since before I was born. They've put up with more crap from NT administrations and still they patiently renew their MGC memberships, buy those season tickets, and tell all their friends that this will be the year. Now, we've finally got the facilities (or are in the process of getting them), we've gotten national press for our accomplishments, and we've got some administration in place who know how to take us to the top tier of D-1A athletics. It's a waste of resources, time, and blood pressure medication to squander what we've got and go back into the dark ages of athletics.

I think what many of us are afraid of is going back into that hole. We see the direction the team is moving, and many have seen this before. The difference is this time there are fans who actually care.

Michael Scott · November 14, 2005

Even a novice could come up with some conclusions if they were to look at that "95%" (give or take) of NT athletic employees who have not bettered themselves. So in many ways, that could really be looked at as a barometer of sorts?
YET THE QUESTION STILL REMAINS: If they can't get a better job than they have at UNT, are they just being so unusually loyal to UNT (albeit they have degrees elsewhere) OR are they just not gettting the job done at UNT to a level of quality as to where other schools are knocking our doors down in Denton to hire them away from us? (In all fairness, some of our ex NT athletic employees chose to go into completely different careers after they left the athletic department).
Sorry about all that unimportant trivial stuff there.
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Interesting point and it raises a quick side topic. I do not think many on this board really know much about the college athletics business. These jobs require about 60 hour work weeks for less pay than most entry level jobs - we are talking around 24K here - overtime exempt. In addition, the industry has moved towards master's degrees in sports management/administration/etc. as a requirement as well. This is a relatively new degree - and while some schools have excellent programs (such as Ohio, Ohio St., Florida St., and a few others), it is still growing. A program at UNT - or even a business program incorporating it would be huge to build a passionate dept who understands the ins and outs of the school.

This is not a knock on our current staff - but I think many of the arm chair members of this board (a club to which I belong), should take into consider these are people making 1/10th the salary of DD while having the job of marketing, selling, promoting, facilitating, etc. not only the "product" he creates, but everything else taken for granted as well. This is not meant to give them an exception from ridicule for some of the crap or occasional (or frequent, depending on your interaction history) hassle/ mishap we get from them as well but just a little bit of perspective.

Final notes on what Plumm said: Going into a completely different career can be taken as either they hated the job, couldn't hack it, or were forced out. Also, didn't an associate AD get hired off as a head AD last year - and a few coaches moved up as well. People are watching us and going after what they like.

stebo · November 14, 2005

Let me interrpret this before someone else misinterprets it.
The changes in fonts with a mixture of colors are to help some of my fellow older nestors who have a bit of narcolepsy. They actually serve the same purpose as a cold glass of water in the face of one who has gravitated into slumber-land. Actually, stebo (where is he BTW?) has taken over my title as "Longest GMG.com Poster" and has had the title for several months now.
I do hope the rest of the manifesto is pretty self explanatory; that is, if one can just read thru the whole darn thing.
This Too Shall Pass.....
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Plumm, don't try to pass that title off on me - you are the man - we all know it. Just because I got my drink on ONE NIGHT and posted some rather lenghthy suckers does not replace YEARS of long ass Plummy posts... and now the beatings on us with the overuse of the emoticons and the overuse of changing font sizes/colors.... dude - that is such a whip.

I will admit to a lot of things, but I am not the king of the obnoxious post, that would be your title my friend.

PlummMeanGreen · November 14, 2005

Plumm, don't try to pass that title off on me - you are the man - we all know it. Just because I got my drink on ONE NIGHT and posted some rather lenghthy suckers does not replace YEARS of long ass Plummy posts... and now the beatings on us with the overuse of the emoticons and the overuse of changing font sizes/colors.... dude - that is such a whip.
I will admit to a lot of things, but I am not the king of the obnoxious post, that would be your title my friend.
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And stebo, just what have I posted that you consider, uh, obnoxious? If posting what many on this board would call the cold, stark naked truth is what you call obnoxious, then your's and my's generation gap as NT alums once again is most obvious.

Most of us remember when you were ready to tar and feather a certain NT football coach. What did he do? Buy you a beer or something? Oh, I forgot, he showed up for a flag football game and that did it for you? So we tag on an extra year on his lifetime contract at UNT for that? Gimmee' a freakin' break!

You need to get your Websters out and get a definition of the word obnoxious and then lets pull out some of your archived GMG.com posts from months/years past so all will know what the true defintion of the word is.

Have A Nice Day!

GMG!

Edited November 14, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

the green rokemi · November 14, 2005

I have followed this team since the early 80's....NAME ONE COACH THAT HAS BEEN BETTER from 1985 to now.
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You are joking right?

GreenTiger_OriginalAcct · November 14, 2005

Can someone summarize PMG's post. My ADD kicks in after the 2nd paragraph and the changes in color font size only further distract me.
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After seeing the new website and the inability of most to be able to read, much less even understand Plumm post, I think NT's primary problem is ASDD - Athletic Support Deficit Disorder.

We are making the DRC's opinion of us look more correct every day!!!

0footballfan0 · November 14, 2005

You are joking right?
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Nope. You disagree, and that is fine, but give me the name....Parker? who????

untbowler · November 14, 2005

I know I will hear about the weaker OOC this year and we didn't do well, but if we had this schedule the last 3 years we would be looking good. We just have a down year.
Keep supporing the Mean Green.
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We are supporting the mean green no matter what, but why have we not seen any improvement??

Yes we have scored more points the last 2 games, than the rest of season combined, but that is only b/c we have fallen behind and was forced to open it up.

Why has our defense not changed at all to try different schemes to try and stop the run??

There still seems like little adaptation to the strengths of our players, who for ones reason or another just do not fit into the current schemes being used.

the green rokemi · November 14, 2005

Nope. You disagree, and that is fine, but give me the name....Parker? who????
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Stoops, Coker, Spurrier, Carroll, etc.

I'm not sure why you think DD is so great...

Coffee and TV · November 14, 2005

Firing DD does not help what is wrong with this team. I've responded to this thread so may times now that my head hurts. Give DD next season and judge where we are then. This is a rebuilding year, and most of us knew that after game 2.
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No, I'm going to have to disagree. Oklahoma, Boise State, TCU 2004, those are all teams that are reloading. Having the same coaching staff with 4 straight Sun Belt titles against basically the same opponents (or weaker OOC) and going 2-7 or possible 2-9 is not rebuilding.

Edited November 14, 2005 by Coffee and TV

0footballfan0 · November 14, 2005

Stoops, Coker, Spurrier, Carroll, etc.
I'm not sure why you think DD is so great...
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My original questions was to name a better coach that UNT has had since the mid 80's (last 20 years). I agree that Stoops, etc are better. But what UNT coach has been better for UNT than DD in the last 2 decades?

Edited November 14, 2005 by 0footballfan0

untbowler · November 14, 2005

My original questions was to name a better coach that UNT has had since the mid 80's (last 20 years). I agree that Stoops, etc are better. But what UNT coach has been better for UNT than DD in the last 2 decades?
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I ask a question right back at you. Who has had a better chance to succeed in the last 2 decades over DD?

DD has new facilities, much better AD support, much better fan support, and more scholarships than almost all of his predecessors, so in theory he should be doing much, much better than those mentioned, plus he is in an easier conference than the Big West.

PlummMeanGreen · November 14, 2005

After seeing the new website and the inability of most to be able to read, much less even understand Plumm post, I think NT's primary problem is ASDD - Athletic Support Deficit Disorder.
We are making the DRC's opinion of us look more correct every day!!!
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How much more black and white (or red and blue) does anyone need to understand what I am posting? I'd say I am pretty clear and concise in what I am wanting to say. Now those who don't agree can vent their own personal frustrations by attempting to poke a little fun at something that (most likely) many of that same group know in their heart of hearts know is probably pretty damn close to being true.

If anyone can't accept what I am expressing in one of my post one only has to put their heads in the sand and ignore them; just like many are choosing to not face the real truth as to why DD has had success by merely piling on wins with some of the worst teams in the worst conference in the NCAA. It pains me to post that, but its what many of you have been saying for years. My light bulb only came on when 5 year old football program FAU beat us 2 years in a row.

So if one can't quite understand what I am saying (or just don't want' to accept what I am saying) I will say this in plain ol' English: "Don't link on to read my damn posts!" I will surely not send my Sicilian cousin Guido after anyone if I find out they haven't. Personally, I know for fact that some of the right people on campus who I want to read what I (and others) have to say are reading many of these posts, so (in a nutshell) thats all that really matters to me.

And BTW, how many decades have you who can't understand a simpleton post by me been following Mean Green football? And how many hundreds of NT Athletic Dept. coaches and staff members have you seen come and go with most of them never being offered jobs at schools higher than UNT? You might say when a university has that kind of track record in hiring those who will never have jobs higher than UNT, that just maybe from time to time some of us alums may have a question or 2 about some hires? (FWIW, I think most of the time most of us are content with who they do hire if truth be known and it doesn't matter to most if Notre Dame doesn't come to Denton a-callin' as we'd like some of them to make Denton their home for a long time).

DENTON RECORD/CHRONICLE!?!?!?! Anyone who would cower down to what anyone from the Denton Record/Chronicle thinks about them or what they have posted on GMG.com is a real wus'! Hellsbells! There is probably as much writing talent from some posters I have read on this board with as much talent than some out there who get paid to do it. What more can one say about that than that? So I do hope this post hasn't been too confusing to some of our elect who say they seem to have problems in comprehending posts that are usually pretty well to the point I would think; OR............ is it more a case of not wanting to comprehend posts that they vehemently disagree with so they use other tactics or diversions to express that?

Fact still remains, we have some damn good football players at NORTH TEXAS who are not being led to reach their full potential. I am not alone with that feeling, either.

NORTH TEXAS CAN DO BETTER & NEVER FORGET THAT, EITHER, BECAUSE MANY OF US HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN BEFORE!

Edited November 14, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

DallasGreen · November 14, 2005

I ask a question right back at you. Who has had a better chance to succeed in the last 2 decades over DD?
DD has new facilities, much better AD support, much better fan support, and more scholarships than almost all of his predecessors, so in theory he should be doing much, much better than those mentioned, plus he is in an easier conference than the Big West.
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I would say that Corky Nelson ( the only NT coach who truly wanted to be here) and Matt Simon were both far above DD. We never had the kind of whippings that are now regularly administered, the players at least thought they could win going into any game, especially in Nelson's case he was a great ambassador for the program and would have never mocked or run down his fan base-- all this with NO administration and little AD support, few fans or scholarships. Any of these prior coaches would have done back flips to have the advantages heaped on DD. All I hear is accolades for going to a cheap, faultering little bowl as a reward for being the best of the worst !-A conference in America and being handed your head by CUSA's 4th place team. Not so great an accomplishment in my book. Give me a coach who can line it up against UT (0-92 in the DD era with the worst yet to come in 2006), beat SMU, beat TT, beat Rice, and you can have dozens of SBC wins and it still won't come close. Great recruiter? Take a look when our lines line up against ANY opponnent we are shorter, slower, and lack the strength to win in the trenches. We use the same weight program for EVERY position linemen to punters-- does that make any sense whatsoever? Our programs have seen much better performance on far less $$ than has been given to this regime--hopefully we can return but stubbornly sticking with what does not work will only delay that time further. The time to act was yesterday-- another year or two only exacerbates a now serious situation.

Stan R · November 14, 2005

I would say that Corky Nelson ( the only NT coach who truly wanted to be here) and Matt Simon were both far above DD.
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How can you say Matt Simon was better than DD? That's a little shocking, please provide some statistics to back that up.

0footballfan0 · November 14, 2005

I ask a question right back at you. Who has had a better chance to succeed in the last 2 decades over DD?
DD has new facilities, much better AD support, much better fan support, and more scholarships than almost all of his predecessors, so in theory he should be doing much, much better than those mentioned, plus he is in an easier conference than the Big West.
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The dodge of the question by replying with a question. Nice.

Michael Scott · November 14, 2005

The dodge of the question by replying with a question. Nice.
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He may have dodged the question - but it doesn't mean he did not raise a valid point back at you (trying to stay out of it and observe the debate)

eagle60 · November 14, 2005

I have a video of NT beating Oregon State with Matt Simon and some very good players with direction from our coaches. Think we could beat Oregon State now? Or even UC-Davis? I don't think so.

DallasGreen · November 14, 2005

How can you say Matt Simon was better than DD? That's a little shocking, please provide some statistics to back that up.
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1994 SLC Championship --win over TT in Lubbock, Win over Oregon State, ranked in 1-AA- need more. The most obvious-- he challenged those we now shirk from - Would play SMU in a Safeway parking lot-- never heard of a "body bag game"

untbowler · November 14, 2005

The dodge of the question by replying with a question. Nice.
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I am not familar with the previous coaches as most others are so I will not rush to judgement.

I do know though that RV is much better than Helwig and the facilities under DD are 10X better.

DD also is in 1-A with more scholarships. I give him some credit on winning the conference and he has brought in more fans, but why as a 1-A team are we not as competitive with larger schools than when we were 1-AA, this is just going off of records from years before.

Hope this is not a dodge of your question now.

GreenTiger_OriginalAcct · November 14, 2005

How much more black and white (or red and blue) does anyone need to understand what I am posting? I'd say I am pretty clear and concise in what I am wanting to say. Now those who don't agree can vent their own personal frustrations by attempting to poke a little fun at something that (most likely) many of that same group know in their heart of hearts know is probably pretty damn close to being true.
If anyone can't accept what I am expressing in one of my post one only has to put their heads in the sand and ignore them; just like many are choosing to not face the real truth as to why DD has had success by merely piling on wins with some of the worst teams in the worst conference in the NCAA. It pains me to post that, but its what many of you have been saying for years. My light bulb only came on when 5 year old football program FAU beat us 2 years in a row.
So if one can't quite understand what I am saying (or just don't want' to accept what I am saying) I will say this in plain ol' English: "Don't link on to read my damn posts!" I will surely not send my Sicilian cousin Guido after anyone if I find out they haven't. Personally, I know for fact that some of the right people on campus who I want to read what I (and others) have to say are reading many of these posts, so (in a nutshell) thats all that really matters to me.
And BTW, how many decades have you who can't understand a simpleton post by me been following Mean Green football? And how many hundreds of NT Athletic Dept. coaches and staff members have you seen come and go with most of them never being offered jobs at schools higher than UNT? You might say when a university has that kind of track record in hiring those who will never have jobs higher than UNT, that just maybe from time to time some of us alums may have a question or 2 about some hires? (FWIW, I think most of the time most of us are content with who they do hire if truth be known and it doesn't matter to most if Notre Dame doesn't come to Denton a-callin' as we'd like some of them to make Denton their home for a long time).
DENTON RECORD/CHRONICLE!?!?!?! Anyone who would cower down to what anyone from the Denton Record/Chronicle thinks about them or what they have posted on GMG.com is a real wus'! Hellsbells! There is probably as much writing talent from some posters I have read on this board with as much talent than some out there who get paid to do it. What more can one say about that than that? So I do hope this post hasn't been too confusing to some of our elect who say they seem to have problems in comprehending posts that are usually pretty well to the point I would think; OR............ is it more a case of not wanting to comprehend posts that they vehemently disagree with so they use other tactics or diversions to express that?
Fact still remains, we have some damn good football players at NORTH TEXAS who are not being led to reach their full potential. I am not alone with that feeling, either.
NORTH TEXAS CAN DO BETTER & NEVER FORGET THAT, EITHER, BECAUSE MANY OF US HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN BEFORE!
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I was agreeing with your original post!!! It baffles me that most people won't take the time to read a post with some logic if it is longer than the average wisecrack.

In regards to what the DRC said about this board, let me say this: I don't like the paper or their writing. But a lot of knee jerk reactions on this board tend to validate Evan's opinions of it. The majority of the concerns on this board need to be taken to RV - let him know that you don't like what is going on.

Fire DD right now and think about this? What coach is going to what to come to program where 4 conference championships followed by one losing season is going to get you fired?

untbowler · November 14, 2005

I was agreeing with your original post!!! It baffles me that most people won't take the time to read a post with some logic if it is longer than the average wisecrack.
In regards to what the DRC said about this board, let me say this: I don't like the paper or their writing. But a lot of knee jerk reactions on this board tend to validate Evan's opinions of it. The majority of the concerns on this board need to be taken to RV - let him know that you don't like what is going on.
Fire DD right now and think about this? What coach is going to what to come to program where 4 conference championships followed by one losing season is going to get you fired?
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Who would go to a school who just fired a coach after going 8-3 and to a bowl???

Hint: he was a former NFL coach.

We could find someone, but now is not quite the time to ditch the Buick, give him one more year with Experienced team, then there will not be any excuses.

PlummMeanGreen · November 14, 2005

Who would go to a school who just fired a coach after going 8-3 and to a bowl???
Hint: he was a former NFL coach.
We could find someone, but now is not quite the time to ditch the Buick, give him one more year with Experienced team, then there will not be any excuses.
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In 1972, Hayden Fry with a 7 & 4 record was fired at SMU. Selfishly, many of us are glad they did and after his Iowa stint he ended up in the College Football Hall of Fame.

In 1990, NT Coach Corky Nelson with a 6 & 5 record was fired and that was during a season we beat SMU at Fouts Field.

It's all about putting all the facts on the table, looking at the cumlative record over a number of years, who you have played, who you have beaten and then just deciding if your football program is going forward or is it headed in a backward trend. There are no NCAA D1-A football programs that are riding the fence.

GOD BLESS TEXAS!

Edited November 14, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

the green rokemi · November 14, 2005

How can you say Matt Simon was better than DD? That's a little shocking, please provide some statistics to back that up.
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Have you seen what Matt Simon has done since he left NT? If he had stayed into the Sunbelt years who knows?

pollock · November 14, 2005

One of the quotes from the FDD site:

"How about allowing Kansas State to end the longest losing streak in NCAA history 7 or 8 years ago? That was one of his great OOC games... EVERYONE could beat Kansas State back then. "

Didn't that happen in like 1989? Maybe your board needs a fact checker.

I'm as pissed as anybody about this year, and downright ashamed of our OOC history. But I think we have to ride it out with Darrell for another year. He has been successful here when very few have. I think if we get someone else we are most likely looking at another 2-3 losing seasons, and whatever momentum we have as a program can't tolerate that.

I do have a friend that refuses to come to another game as long as Dickey is the coach. Hopefully that isn't widespread.

If we have another losing season next year, and especially if we lose at home to SMU, then he should probably be replaced.